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The Silent Hero/A Tribute To Daniel Theis

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Re: The Silent Hero/A Tribute To Daniel Theis 

Post#101 » by ConstableGeneva » Mon Oct 5, 2020 2:26 am

Triple7 wrote:Olynyk > Theis

Defensively, it was not a one-on-one thing for Miami. The whole team's positioning/help was great denying AD to even get the ball to begin with while also containing Lebron's drives. I can count on one hand the number of times AD actually got the ball in the post. So Olynyk didn't really need to battle with the big boys down low. KO has always been a really good positional defender.

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Re: The Silent Hero/A Tribute To Daniel Theis 

Post#102 » by Triple7 » Mon Oct 5, 2020 3:37 am

ConstableGeneva wrote:
Triple7 wrote:Olynyk > Theis

Defensively, it was not a one-on-one thing for Miami. The whole team's positioning/help was great denying AD to even get the ball to begin with while also containing Lebron's drives. I can count on one hand the number of times AD actually got the ball in the post. So Olynyk didn't really need to battle with the big boys down low. KO has always been a really good positional defender.

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It’s not just on defense, but more so on offense. He is just way way better than Theis. Theis is a joke at most games on offense. I don’t know of any big that passes up a shot in front of the ring, against smaller defenders than Theis did this playoffs.
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Re: The Silent Hero/A Tribute To Daniel Theis 

Post#103 » by ConstableGeneva » Mon Oct 5, 2020 3:41 am

Triple7 wrote:
ConstableGeneva wrote:
Triple7 wrote:Olynyk > Theis

Defensively, it was not a one-on-one thing for Miami. The whole team's positioning/help was great denying AD to even get the ball to begin with while also containing Lebron's drives. I can count on one hand the number of times AD actually got the ball in the post. So Olynyk didn't really need to battle with the big boys down low. KO has always been a really good positional defender.

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It’s not just on defense, but more so on offense. He is just way way better than Theis. Theis is a joke at most games on offense. I don’t know of any big that passes up a shot in front of the ring, against smaller defenders than Theis did this playoffs.

KO is a better offensive player than Theis, who is a better defender than KO. I wouldn't bother arguing this further lol.
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Re: The Silent Hero/A Tribute To Daniel Theis 

Post#104 » by Triple7 » Mon Oct 5, 2020 3:54 am

ConstableGeneva wrote:
Triple7 wrote:
ConstableGeneva wrote:Defensively, it was not a one-on-one thing for Miami. The whole team's positioning/help was great denying AD to even get the ball to begin with while also containing Lebron's drives. I can count on one hand the number of times AD actually got the ball in the post. So Olynyk didn't really need to battle with the big boys down low. KO has always been a really good positional defender.

Read on Twitter


It’s not just on defense, but more so on offense. He is just way way better than Theis. Theis is a joke at most games on offense. I don’t know of any big that passes up a shot in front of the ring, against smaller defenders than Theis did this playoffs.

KO is a better offensive player than Theis, who is a better defender than KO. I wouldn't bother arguing this further lol.

Yup you like Theis, i hated his game. Let’s just leave it at that!
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Re: The Silent Hero/A Tribute To Daniel Theis 

Post#105 » by ConstableGeneva » Wed Oct 7, 2020 5:36 pm

Basketball-reference.com should check its tracking algorithm. Must be something wrong with it. 'Cos I did not expect this...

Theis jumped up the Celtics postseason regular season career leaderboards. It was essentially his first postseason year as starting center.

ImageImage
ImageImage
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Not bad for someone who should just be a backup.

EDIT: Regular season career leaderboards, not postseason. Thanks, JHTruth, for the catch.
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Re: The Silent Hero/A Tribute To Daniel Theis 

Post#106 » by 100proof » Wed Oct 7, 2020 6:18 pm

Decided to run a big comparison of statistics between all NBA centers that have:
a) Started at least 1 game
b) played in at least 20 games
c) played in at least 20 minutes per game

These are the results for Theis (39 qualified centers)

fg%: 11th
3pt%: 17th
3pta: 19th
ft%: 12th
rebounds: 25th
assists: 19th
steals: 26th
blocks: 14th
+/-: 10th
offensive rating: 13th
defensive rating: 4th
net rating: 4th

assist %: 19th
rebound %: 27th
efg%: 8th
ts%: 9th

opponent 2nd chance points: 4th
opponent points in the paint: 2nd
defensive win shares: 11

19 categories with an average position of 13.5.

The rebounds really bring theis score down, but to touch on that, our team is 8th in the NBA at rebounding overall and he is one of the only Centers that play with top shelf rebounding wings (Tatum, Hayward and Brown all averaged over 6 per game for the season and Smart and Kemba averaged another 4 per game each.

Tatum was top 10 in rebounds for PFs
Hayward and Brown were both top 10 for rebounds for guards/sfs
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Re: The Silent Hero/A Tribute To Daniel Theis 

Post#107 » by JHTruth » Wed Oct 7, 2020 6:26 pm

100proof wrote:Decided to run a big comparison of statistics between all NBA centers that have:
a) Started at least 1 game
b) played in at least 20 games
c) played in at least 20 minutes per game

These are the results for Theis (39 qualified centers)

fg%: 11th
3pt%: 17th
3pta: 19th
ft%: 12th
rebounds: 25th
assists: 19th
steals: 26th
blocks: 14th
+/-: 10th
offensive rating: 13th
defensive rating: 4th
net rating: 4th

assist %: 19th
rebound %: 27th
efg%: 8th
ts%: 9th

opponent 2nd chance points: 4th
opponent points in the paint: 2nd
defensive win shares: 11

19 categories with an average position of 13.5.

The rebounds really bring theis score down, but to touch on that, our team is 8th in the NBA at rebounding overall and he is one of the only Centers that play with top shelf rebounding wings (Tatum, Hayward and Brown all averaged over 6 per game for the season and Smart and Kemba averaged another 4 per game each.

Tatum was top 10 in rebounds for PFs
Hayward and Brown were both top 10 for rebounds for guards/sfs


This is about how I evaluate Theis through the eye-test. Defensive specialist that can finish an open dunk. No real vertical spacing and mediocre from range which drastically limits his offensive upside. Plays his role in Brad's system well but will likely struggle outside of it. Someone is going to pay him big bucks next offseason. Adios...
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Re: The Silent Hero/A Tribute To Daniel Theis 

Post#108 » by JHTruth » Wed Oct 7, 2020 6:27 pm

ConstableGeneva wrote:Basketball-reference.com should check its tracking algorithm. Must be something wrong with it. 'Cos I did not expect this...

Theis jumped up the Celtics postseason career leaderboards. It was essentially his first postseason.

ImageImage
ImageImage
ImageImage

Not bad for someone who should just be a backup.


These numbers are waaaaaaaaaay off. For example Theis only had a TS% of .578 this playoffs.
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Re: The Silent Hero/A Tribute To Daniel Theis 

Post#109 » by ConstableGeneva » Wed Oct 7, 2020 6:31 pm

JHTruth wrote:
ConstableGeneva wrote:Basketball-reference.com should check its tracking algorithm. Must be something wrong with it. 'Cos I did not expect this...

Theis jumped up the Celtics postseason career leaderboards. It was essentially his first postseason.

Spoiler:
ImageImage
ImageImage
ImageImage


Not bad for someone who should just be a backup.


These numbers are waaaaaaaaaay off. For example Theis only had a TS% of .578 this playoffs.

Woops. My bad. Those are regular season career leaderboards.
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Re: The Silent Hero/A Tribute To Daniel Theis 

Post#110 » by JHTruth » Wed Oct 7, 2020 6:34 pm

ConstableGeneva wrote:
JHTruth wrote:
ConstableGeneva wrote:Basketball-reference.com should check its tracking algorithm. Must be something wrong with it. 'Cos I did not expect this...

Theis jumped up the Celtics postseason career leaderboards. It was essentially his first postseason.

Spoiler:
ImageImage
ImageImage
ImageImage


Not bad for someone who should just be a backup.


These numbers are waaaaaaaaaay off. For example Theis only had a TS% of .578 this playoffs.

Woops. My bad. Those are regular season career leaderboards.


Figured. He really fell off these playoffs..
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Re: The Silent Hero/A Tribute To Daniel Theis 

Post#111 » by Celts17Pride » Thu Oct 8, 2020 1:01 pm

Danny Theis as a starter on a championship team is not good enough. Didn’t we learn that in this year’s playoffs?

Danny Theis had an awesome year and saved the Celtics this year because they really didn’t have a full time center. Theis was phenomenal. Theis is a stop gap. Theis at the starting center position is not good enough to win a championship.

I have no problem keeping Theis as a quality backup but if the Celtics want to go farther in the playoffs they need an upgrade
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Re: The Silent Hero/A Tribute To Daniel Theis 

Post#112 » by Parliament10 » Fri Oct 9, 2020 4:29 am

ConstableGeneva wrote:Basketball-reference.com should check its tracking algorithm. Must be something wrong with it. 'Cos I did not expect this...

Theis jumped up the Celtics postseason regular season career leaderboards. It was essentially his first postseason year as starting center.

ImageImage
ImageImage
ImageImage

Not bad for someone who should just be a backup.

EDIT: Regular season career leaderboards, not postseason. Thanks, JHTruth, for the catch.

Not too shabby, though.
Theis is definitely a quality 6th-Man-type Center
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Re: The Silent Hero/A Tribute To Daniel Theis 

Post#113 » by Triple7 » Fri Oct 9, 2020 3:46 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:Danny Theis as a starter on a championship team is not good enough. Didn’t we learn that in this year’s playoffs?

Danny Theis had an awesome year and saved the Celtics this year because they really didn’t have a full time center. Theis was phenomenal. Theis is a stop gap. Theis at the starting center position is not good enough to win a championship.

I have no problem keeping Theis as a quality backup but if the Celtics want to go farther in the playoffs they need an upgrade


Exactly!
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Re: The Silent Hero/A Tribute To Daniel Theis 

Post#114 » by Parliament10 » Fri Oct 9, 2020 6:19 pm

Triple7 wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:Danny Theis as a starter on a championship team is not good enough. Didn’t we learn that in this year’s playoffs?

Danny Theis had an awesome year and saved the Celtics this year because they really didn’t have a full time center. Theis was phenomenal. Theis is a stop gap. Theis at the starting center position is not good enough to win a championship.

I have no problem keeping Theis as a quality backup but if the Celtics want to go farther in the playoffs they need an upgrade


Exactly!

¡Exactamente!
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Re: The Silent Hero/A Tribute To Daniel Theis 

Post#115 » by playa-hater » Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:23 am

ConstableGeneva wrote:Basketball-reference.com should check its tracking algorithm. Must be something wrong with it. 'Cos I did not expect this...

Theis jumped up the Celtics postseason regular season career leaderboards. It was essentially his first postseason year as starting center.

ImageImage
ImageImage
ImageImage

Not bad for someone who should just be a backup.

EDIT: Regular season career leaderboards, not postseason. Thanks, JHTruth, for the catch.


One reason why I like my eye test > analytics ... According to these numbers Theis > McHale.
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Re: The Silent Hero/A Tribute To Daniel Theis 

Post#116 » by ConstableGeneva » Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:28 am

playa-hater wrote:
ConstableGeneva wrote:Basketball-reference.com should check its tracking algorithm. Must be something wrong with it. 'Cos I did not expect this...

Theis jumped up the Celtics postseason regular season career leaderboards. It was essentially his first postseason year as starting center.

Spoiler:
ImageImage
ImageImage
ImageImage


Not bad for someone who should just be a backup.

EDIT: Regular season career leaderboards, not postseason. Thanks, JHTruth, for the catch.


One reason why I like my eye test > analytics ... According to these numbers Theis > McHale.

LOL I wouldn't go that far. Theis had one really good (efficient) regular season. McHale and the other names above did it consistently for several seasons. Reading numbers without context and watching film is not analytics.
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Re: The Silent Hero/A Tribute To Daniel Theis 

Post#117 » by Fencer reregistered » Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:17 am

ConstableGeneva wrote:
playa-hater wrote:
ConstableGeneva wrote:Basketball-reference.com should check its tracking algorithm. Must be something wrong with it. 'Cos I did not expect this...

Theis jumped up the Celtics postseason regular season career leaderboards. It was essentially his first postseason year as starting center.

Spoiler:
ImageImage
ImageImage
ImageImage


Not bad for someone who should just be a backup.

EDIT: Regular season career leaderboards, not postseason. Thanks, JHTruth, for the catch.


One reason why I like my eye test > analytics ... According to these numbers Theis > McHale.

LOL I wouldn't go that far. Theis had one really good (efficient) regular season. McHale and the other names above did it consistently for several seasons. Reading numbers without context and watching film is not analytics.


The bigger flaw is that those numbers are cherry-picked. E.g., Theis' great scoring efficiency was on low volume, much like Perkins'. That said, numbers and the eye test both suggest that, like Perk, Theis is a credible 5th-best starter on a championship team.
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Re: The Silent Hero/A Tribute To Daniel Theis 

Post#118 » by ConstableGeneva » Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:29 am

Fencer reregistered wrote:
ConstableGeneva wrote:
playa-hater wrote:
One reason why I like my eye test > analytics ... According to these numbers Theis > McHale.

LOL I wouldn't go that far. Theis had one really good (efficient) regular season. McHale and the other names above did it consistently for several seasons. Reading numbers without context and watching film is not analytics.


The bigger flaw is that those numbers are cherry-picked. E.g., Theis' great scoring efficiency was on low volume, much like Perkins'. That said, numbers and the eye test both suggest that, like Perk, Theis is a credible 5th-best starter on a championship team.

Correct. Hard to have all-stars in all 5 positions. CBA/cap limitations just won't let any team do that. Mario Chalmers was a starter for a title team ffs. And in game 6 of these NBA Finals, Alex Caruso is. What we needed was for our max players (Kemba, Hayward) to be better, much better (see Butler). Unfortunately for us, both were hobbled/hurt with no bench players to step up behind them.
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Re: The Silent Hero/A Tribute To Daniel Theis 

Post#119 » by Spin Move » Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:19 am

For what he makes theis is a steal, he is not an all star, not even close but he is a really nice rotational top 8 player who does so many little things like sealing his defender so Brown or Tatum can get a layup or setting hard screens. He is not perfect, he struggles gaurding points guards in the pick and roll but so do most centers, he blocks a reasonable number of shots. His rebounding could stand to improve but he boxes out and often other players get the board because of his box out. He is our 7th best player, we could use an upgrade somewhere in the front court in the top 6 but he is part of the solution not part of the problem, hope we can re-sign him to a reasonable deal after the season.
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Re: The Silent Hero/A Tribute To Daniel Theis 

Post#120 » by JHTruth » Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:55 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:
ConstableGeneva wrote:
playa-hater wrote:
One reason why I like my eye test > analytics ... According to these numbers Theis > McHale.

LOL I wouldn't go that far. Theis had one really good (efficient) regular season. McHale and the other names above did it consistently for several seasons. Reading numbers without context and watching film is not analytics.


The bigger flaw is that those numbers are cherry-picked. E.g., Theis' great scoring efficiency was on low volume, much like Perkins'. That said, numbers and the eye test both suggest that, like Perk, Theis is a credible 5th-best starter on a championship team.


To me a Theis is such a strange player. He's like a bench-starter tweener. He's better than your average bench big but not quite good enough to be a championship big in my opinion. I have to squint pretty hard to see an NBA big when I look at Theis. His game is very Euro. He's just kind of there.

NBA bigs generally have a presence about them. Rob even about the same height looks much more the part..IDK

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