ImageImageImage

It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread

Moderators: ParticleMan, Froob, canman1971, The Comedian, Parliament10, sully00, djFan71

keevsnick1
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,359
And1: 1,810
Joined: Feb 27, 2017
       

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1581 » by keevsnick1 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 4:06 pm

Pretty much any long term plan involving the Celtics kind if has to begin with trying to dump Kemba, whether it's this off season or next. If they bring him back they are 4 million below the tax with just 11 guys under contract. Which means 20 million for Fournier puts then 20 million+ into the tax. I would be SHOCKED if ownership does that, for that reason I cant see all three of kemba, smart, fournier on this team next year.

If you can dump Kemba that opens up some options. You can let fournier walk and play out next year, let smart and thompson expire then attempt to open up max space by moving a young guy or two. That's an option. Or you could resign Fournier to take up that kemba production and move forward with Smart+Thompson as matching salary looking for a trade. Also an option.

Of course maybe you cant move kemba, in which case you either let fournier walk or trade smart to save tax money and move forward from there. I think then they'd just be trying again to move him the next summer when he has 1 year left.

If course everything depends on what the kemba deal is. Ideally you'd get off of most or all his money, but the number of teams that can just flat absorb it is limited. You probably have to take back a contract or two.
BostonCouchGM
Starter
Posts: 2,079
And1: 1,483
Joined: Jun 07, 2018

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1582 » by BostonCouchGM » Tue Apr 6, 2021 4:46 pm

Gomes3PC wrote:Our PG defense has been awful between Kemba and PP. PP is getting rooked a bit but he's never going to be great on that end, and while Kemba puts in effort he's clearly the weak link.


Pritchard is a well above average defender. Our defense is struggling because supposed elite defenders like Jaylen and Smart have been terrible
Curmudgeon
RealGM
Posts: 32,038
And1: 14,095
Joined: Jan 20, 2004
Location: Boston, MA

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1583 » by Curmudgeon » Tue Apr 6, 2021 5:03 pm

Yes, Pritchard is hard nosed on defense but suffers from lack of height. He has not yet mastered the art of taking charges, which, with his quickness, he should be able to do more often.
"Numbers lie alot. Wins and losses don't lie." - Jerry West
"You are what your record says you are."- Bill Parcells
"Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. Rebounding wins championships." Pat Summit
BK_2020
Starter
Posts: 2,312
And1: 2,145
Joined: Sep 08, 2020
   

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1584 » by BK_2020 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 5:05 pm

Pritchard is slower than Grant Williams.
bucknersrevenge
Head Coach
Posts: 6,971
And1: 7,628
Joined: Jul 05, 2012
Location: Southern Maryland
Contact:
         

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1585 » by bucknersrevenge » Tue Apr 6, 2021 5:24 pm

BK_2020 wrote:
JediMasterRevan wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:You people really overrate how important point guard defense is.



Yeah, defense isn't important.

Especially at the wing position. :crazy:

Yeah the Sixers lose every game because teams just attack Seth Curry. Also the Nets lose every game because teams hunt Kyrie. The Utah Jazz have not won a single game because teams repeatedly target their 6'1, 175 lb point guard and 6'1 shooting guard. Also the Trail Blazers will go 0-82 because teams just hunt Dame and C.J.
Meanwhile the Spurs with stout point guard defenders are poised to finish 82-0 for the first time in NBA history.
Same with the Pelicans who have the best defense in the league thanks to 6'6 Lonzo Ball at point guard.
The Kings stifle everyone thanks to the 6'3 behemoth Fox manning the point guard spot.


I don't always agree with you but this is a really intelligent counterpoint argument here. So then is it the Jay's and Smart just not doing their job at the other end? Will the insertion of Rob into the starting lineup be enough to help change the defensive energy of this group?
I am the RealGM President of the Tacko Fall fan club. Playa-hater, 31to6, thank you for having my back fam. I still say we haven't seen the last of Tacko.
JediMasterRevan
Rookie
Posts: 1,147
And1: 632
Joined: Nov 06, 2020
 

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1586 » by JediMasterRevan » Tue Apr 6, 2021 5:26 pm

BK_2020 wrote:
JediMasterRevan wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:You people really overrate how important point guard defense is.



Yeah, defense isn't important.

Especially at the wing position. :crazy:

Yeah the Sixers lose every game because teams just attack Seth Curry. Also the Nets lose every game because teams hunt Kyrie. The Utah Jazz have not won a single game because teams repeatedly target their 6'1, 175 lb point guard and 6'1 shooting guard. Also the Trail Blazers will go 0-82 because teams just hunt Dame and C.J.
Meanwhile the Spurs with stout point guard defenders are poised to finish 82-0 for the first time in NBA history.
Same with the Pelicans who have the best defense in the league thanks to 6'6 Lonzo Ball at point guard.
The Kings stifle everyone thanks to the 6'3 behemoth Fox manning the point guard spot.


This makes no sense.
FIRE DANNY
BK_2020
Starter
Posts: 2,312
And1: 2,145
Joined: Sep 08, 2020
   

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1587 » by BK_2020 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 5:39 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:
JediMasterRevan wrote:

Yeah, defense isn't important.

Especially at the wing position. :crazy:

Yeah the Sixers lose every game because teams just attack Seth Curry. Also the Nets lose every game because teams hunt Kyrie. The Utah Jazz have not won a single game because teams repeatedly target their 6'1, 175 lb point guard and 6'1 shooting guard. Also the Trail Blazers will go 0-82 because teams just hunt Dame and C.J.
Meanwhile the Spurs with stout point guard defenders are poised to finish 82-0 for the first time in NBA history.
Same with the Pelicans who have the best defense in the league thanks to 6'6 Lonzo Ball at point guard.
The Kings stifle everyone thanks to the 6'3 behemoth Fox manning the point guard spot.


I don't always agree with you but this is a really intelligent counterpoint argument here. So then is it the Jay's and Smart just not doing their job at the other end? Will the insertion of Rob into the starting lineup be enough to help change the defensive energy of this group?

I wish I had the answer so when Evan Turner gets fired I'll take his job.
All I can say is blaming point guard defense is just not accurate. Great point guard defenders seldom influence the games with their defense. Point guards have to be able to score, shoot and pass. That's why Eric Bledsoe who can do none of the things on offense well is an albatross even healthy despite his good defense.
User avatar
The_Ghost_of_JB
RealGM
Posts: 17,207
And1: 11,337
Joined: Mar 04, 2010
Location: In a van down by the river.
   

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1588 » by The_Ghost_of_JB » Tue Apr 6, 2021 5:50 pm

I am not even sure if they need to trade Walker because I fully expect him to opt out after next season since his 4th year is a player option. Some team will be dumb enough to give him a 4 year 100 million dollar contract.
*Insert witty signature here.*
GoGreen
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,740
And1: 2,017
Joined: Jul 19, 2017
 

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1589 » by GoGreen » Tue Apr 6, 2021 6:33 pm

So, I know John Collins wants stupid money, but if he actually takes less than the max to play here (unlikely, but amuse me..) what's the most he can be offered without becoming an albatross down the line? Especially if Evan re-signs?
JediMasterRevan
Rookie
Posts: 1,147
And1: 632
Joined: Nov 06, 2020
 

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1590 » by JediMasterRevan » Tue Apr 6, 2021 6:40 pm

BK_2020 wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:Yeah the Sixers lose every game because teams just attack Seth Curry. Also the Nets lose every game because teams hunt Kyrie. The Utah Jazz have not won a single game because teams repeatedly target their 6'1, 175 lb point guard and 6'1 shooting guard. Also the Trail Blazers will go 0-82 because teams just hunt Dame and C.J.
Meanwhile the Spurs with stout point guard defenders are poised to finish 82-0 for the first time in NBA history.
Same with the Pelicans who have the best defense in the league thanks to 6'6 Lonzo Ball at point guard.
The Kings stifle everyone thanks to the 6'3 behemoth Fox manning the point guard spot.


I don't always agree with you but this is a really intelligent counterpoint argument here. So then is it the Jay's and Smart just not doing their job at the other end? Will the insertion of Rob into the starting lineup be enough to help change the defensive energy of this group?

I wish I had the answer so when Evan Turner gets fired I'll take his job.
All I can say is blaming point guard defense is just not accurate. Great point guard defenders seldom influence the games with their defense. Point guards have to be able to score, shoot and pass. That's why Eric Bledsoe who can do none of the things on offense well is an albatross even healthy despite his good defense.



Yes, having a defensive stalwort at pg is not going to miraculously win you games, but having a defensive stalwart at PG while being backup up with exccellent defenders in Brown, Smart, Tatum and the ever improving Williams makes you a point that cannot be attacked.


Kemba is isolated on offense, it was the entire playoffs last season. Butler, play after play on Kemba. Tell me how that didnt cost the team wins.

Kemba is an exploitable link the in the defensive armour.

Steph Curry is an excellent defender
Simmons can guard anyone including the pg spot
Chris paul is an excellent pg defender
Jrue
Ball
Murray
List goes on.

I know you pointed out that murray and ball specifically are not making the best defensive teams in the league, but Spurs rock a better defensive team than us (even though Brown, Tatum and Smart are all stellar defenders) and while the pelicans are worse defensively, Ball and bledsoe are the only wing defenders on the team (and eric has regressed)
FIRE DANNY
bucknersrevenge
Head Coach
Posts: 6,971
And1: 7,628
Joined: Jul 05, 2012
Location: Southern Maryland
Contact:
         

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1591 » by bucknersrevenge » Tue Apr 6, 2021 6:44 pm

BK_2020 wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:Yeah the Sixers lose every game because teams just attack Seth Curry. Also the Nets lose every game because teams hunt Kyrie. The Utah Jazz have not won a single game because teams repeatedly target their 6'1, 175 lb point guard and 6'1 shooting guard. Also the Trail Blazers will go 0-82 because teams just hunt Dame and C.J.
Meanwhile the Spurs with stout point guard defenders are poised to finish 82-0 for the first time in NBA history.
Same with the Pelicans who have the best defense in the league thanks to 6'6 Lonzo Ball at point guard.
The Kings stifle everyone thanks to the 6'3 behemoth Fox manning the point guard spot.


I don't always agree with you but this is a really intelligent counterpoint argument here. So then is it the Jay's and Smart just not doing their job at the other end? Will the insertion of Rob into the starting lineup be enough to help change the defensive energy of this group?

I wish I had the answer so when Evan Turner gets fired I'll take his job.
All I can say is blaming point guard defense is just not accurate. Great point guard defenders seldom influence the games with their defense. Point guards have to be able to score, shoot and pass. That's why Eric Bledsoe who can do none of the things on offense well is an albatross even healthy despite his good defense.


Kemba's issue is that his contract has now outpaced his value and I think most all of us realize that. He's not good enough at his pricepoint that you don't have to still add more talent, but can't because his cost is prohibitive. Given your beliefs on the matter, quick question:

At the deadline, Atlanta tried to get Jaylen, Supposedly Danny said you'd have to give up Young and Hunter. Would you have done that deal for us if you had your way?
I am the RealGM President of the Tacko Fall fan club. Playa-hater, 31to6, thank you for having my back fam. I still say we haven't seen the last of Tacko.
GoGreen
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,740
And1: 2,017
Joined: Jul 19, 2017
 

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1592 » by GoGreen » Tue Apr 6, 2021 6:56 pm

Is John Collins still a possibility if he doesn't get that ridiculous money? (I mean I'm sure he will, but a man can dream...)

Collins at 27 mil, Evan at 18 mil, dump Kemba and another piece or 2, say Thompson?
bucknersrevenge
Head Coach
Posts: 6,971
And1: 7,628
Joined: Jul 05, 2012
Location: Southern Maryland
Contact:
         

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1593 » by bucknersrevenge » Tue Apr 6, 2021 6:58 pm

Obviously, he wouldn't be the first former #2 pick to get a chance to revitalize his career here. It's an interesting idea and I wouldn't mind waiving Moe Wagner to get a look on a 10-day or something.
https://heavy.com/sports/boston-celtics/sign-jabari-parker-buyout-market-rumors/?fbclid=IwAR0hpHD1LnWZTJ7Qi0CJ43s3zci4nXbrLqfyWVUJ_ziUhGdQq26OkkVGf5o
I am the RealGM President of the Tacko Fall fan club. Playa-hater, 31to6, thank you for having my back fam. I still say we haven't seen the last of Tacko.
BK_2020
Starter
Posts: 2,312
And1: 2,145
Joined: Sep 08, 2020
   

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1594 » by BK_2020 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 7:05 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
I don't always agree with you but this is a really intelligent counterpoint argument here. So then is it the Jay's and Smart just not doing their job at the other end? Will the insertion of Rob into the starting lineup be enough to help change the defensive energy of this group?

I wish I had the answer so when Evan Turner gets fired I'll take his job.
All I can say is blaming point guard defense is just not accurate. Great point guard defenders seldom influence the games with their defense. Point guards have to be able to score, shoot and pass. That's why Eric Bledsoe who can do none of the things on offense well is an albatross even healthy despite his good defense.


Kemba's issue is that his contract has now outpaced his value and I think most all of us realize that. He's not good enough at his pricepoint that you don't have to still add more talent, but can't because his cost is prohibitive. Given your beliefs on the matter, quick question:

At the deadline, Atlanta tried to get Jaylen, Supposedly Danny said you'd have to give up Young and Hunter. Would you have done that deal for us if you had your way?

I would trade Jaylen for Trae straight up if the CBA allowed it. Trae Young is an incredible talent, and good teams can hide his defensive issues. A great pnr orchestrator like Lebron will exploit match ups, but there aren't that many in the league and a Lebron will find a mismatch no matter who we run out.
If Kemba gets back to 2019-2020 level he will be fine. Already Kemba is only 26% of the cap, and that's with the cap not rising as rapidly as it was expected to. Sportrac is forecasting $115.7 mil for 2022-2023 cap. He will be a mere 20% against the cap at that point and will be movable. We aren't contending in 2021-2022 anyway.
User avatar
zoyathedestroya
RealGM
Posts: 13,314
And1: 32,383
Joined: Nov 05, 2017

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1595 » by zoyathedestroya » Tue Apr 6, 2021 7:11 pm

GoGreen wrote:Is John Collins still a possibility if he doesn't get that ridiculous money? (I mean I'm sure he will, but a man can dream...)

Collins at 27 mil, Evan at 18 mil, dump Kemba and another piece or 2, say Thompson?

We don't have cap space. So it has to be an S&T. Which would hard cap us. So you got to dump Kemba first. I give this 0.03% chance of happening.
gocelts
Analyst
Posts: 3,715
And1: 1,467
Joined: Jan 23, 2004
Location: Illadelphia

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1596 » by gocelts » Tue Apr 6, 2021 7:38 pm

its funny....out of the last 6 months and 100s of pages of threads (excluding a week prior when we knew names of targets) no one forecast that Fournier would be a "trade target" and of course freaking Wagner and Kornet weren't on anyone's radar...goes to show how fluid the market is and we really cant assume anything until a week before these deadlines.
~gocelts
User avatar
The_Ghost_of_JB
RealGM
Posts: 17,207
And1: 11,337
Joined: Mar 04, 2010
Location: In a van down by the river.
   

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1597 » by The_Ghost_of_JB » Tue Apr 6, 2021 8:03 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:Obviously, he wouldn't be the first former #2 pick to get a chance to revitalize his career here. It's an interesting idea and I wouldn't mind waiving Moe Wagner to get a look on a 10-day or something.
https://heavy.com/sports/boston-celtics/sign-jabari-parker-buyout-market-rumors/?fbclid=IwAR0hpHD1LnWZTJ7Qi0CJ43s3zci4nXbrLqfyWVUJ_ziUhGdQq26OkkVGf5o


Is Parker better than Ojeleye at this point?
*Insert witty signature here.*
User avatar
grindtime22
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,764
And1: 4,094
Joined: Jan 30, 2012
     

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1598 » by grindtime22 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 9:45 pm

BK_2020 wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:I wish I had the answer so when Evan Turner gets fired I'll take his job.
All I can say is blaming point guard defense is just not accurate. Great point guard defenders seldom influence the games with their defense. Point guards have to be able to score, shoot and pass. That's why Eric Bledsoe who can do none of the things on offense well is an albatross even healthy despite his good defense.


Kemba's issue is that his contract has now outpaced his value and I think most all of us realize that. He's not good enough at his pricepoint that you don't have to still add more talent, but can't because his cost is prohibitive. Given your beliefs on the matter, quick question:

At the deadline, Atlanta tried to get Jaylen, Supposedly Danny said you'd have to give up Young and Hunter. Would you have done that deal for us if you had your way?

I would trade Jaylen for Trae straight up if the CBA allowed it. Trae Young is an incredible talent, and good teams can hide his defensive issues. A great pnr orchestrator like Lebron will exploit match ups, but there aren't that many in the league and a Lebron will find a mismatch no matter who we run out.
If Kemba gets back to 2019-2020 level he will be fine. Already Kemba is only 26% of the cap, and that's with the cap not rising as rapidly as it was expected to. Sportrac is forecasting $115.7 mil for 2022-2023 cap. He will be a mere 20% against the cap at that point and will be movable. We aren't contending in 2021-2022 anyway.


Not sure about your math

Kemba is 31.5% of the cap this year and will be 32.5% in 22/23
User avatar
zoyathedestroya
RealGM
Posts: 13,314
And1: 32,383
Joined: Nov 05, 2017

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1599 » by zoyathedestroya » Tue Apr 6, 2021 10:03 pm

Dedmon to Miami, per Shams.
User avatar
Celts17Pride
RealGM
Posts: 49,173
And1: 38,451
Joined: Nov 27, 2005

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1600 » by Celts17Pride » Tue Apr 6, 2021 11:25 pm

Read on Twitter

Return to Boston Celtics