It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread

[keevsnick1]

Pretty much any long term plan involving the Celtics kind if has to begin with trying to dump Kemba, whether it's this off season or next. If they bring him back they are 4 million below the tax with just 11 guys under contract. Which means 20 million for Fournier puts then 20 million+ into the tax. I would be SHOCKED if ownership does that, for that reason I cant see all three of kemba, smart, fournier on this team next year.

If you can dump Kemba that opens up some options. You can let fournier walk and play out next year, let smart and thompson expire then attempt to open up max space by moving a young guy or two. That's an option. Or you could resign Fournier to take up that kemba production and move forward with Smart+Thompson as matching salary looking for a trade. Also an option.

Of course maybe you cant move kemba, in which case you either let fournier walk or trade smart to save tax money and move forward from there. I think then they'd just be trying again to move him the next summer when he has 1 year left.

If course everything depends on what the kemba deal is. Ideally you'd get off of most or all his money, but the number of teams that can just flat absorb it is limited. You probably have to take back a contract or two.

[BostonCouchGM]

Our PG defense has been awful between Kemba and PP. PP is getting rooked a bit but he's never going to be great on that end, and while Kemba puts in effort he's clearly the weak link.

Pritchard is a well above average defender. Our defense is struggling because supposed elite defenders like Jaylen and Smart have been terrible

[Curmudgeon]

Yes, Pritchard is hard nosed on defense but suffers from lack of height. He has not yet mastered the art of taking charges, which, with his quickness, he should be able to do more often.

[BK_2020]

Pritchard is slower than Grant Williams.

[bucknersrevenge]

You people really overrate how important point guard defense is.

Yeah, defense isn't important.

Especially at the wing position.

Yeah the Sixers lose every game because teams just attack Seth Curry. Also the Nets lose every game because teams hunt Kyrie. The Utah Jazz have not won a single game because teams repeatedly target their 6'1, 175 lb point guard and 6'1 shooting guard. Also the Trail Blazers will go 0-82 because teams just hunt Dame and C.J.
Meanwhile the Spurs with stout point guard defenders are poised to finish 82-0 for the first time in NBA history.
Same with the Pelicans who have the best defense in the league thanks to 6'6 Lonzo Ball at point guard.
The Kings stifle everyone thanks to the 6'3 behemoth Fox manning the point guard spot.

I don't always agree with you but this is a really intelligent counterpoint argument here. So then is it the Jay's and Smart just not doing their job at the other end? Will the insertion of Rob into the starting lineup be enough to help change the defensive energy of this group?

[JediMasterRevan]

You people really overrate how important point guard defense is.

Yeah, defense isn't important.

Especially at the wing position.

Yeah the Sixers lose every game because teams just attack Seth Curry. Also the Nets lose every game because teams hunt Kyrie. The Utah Jazz have not won a single game because teams repeatedly target their 6'1, 175 lb point guard and 6'1 shooting guard. Also the Trail Blazers will go 0-82 because teams just hunt Dame and C.J.
Meanwhile the Spurs with stout point guard defenders are poised to finish 82-0 for the first time in NBA history.
Same with the Pelicans who have the best defense in the league thanks to 6'6 Lonzo Ball at point guard.
The Kings stifle everyone thanks to the 6'3 behemoth Fox manning the point guard spot.

This makes no sense.

[BK_2020]

Yeah, defense isn't important.

Especially at the wing position.

Yeah the Sixers lose every game because teams just attack Seth Curry. Also the Nets lose every game because teams hunt Kyrie. The Utah Jazz have not won a single game because teams repeatedly target their 6'1, 175 lb point guard and 6'1 shooting guard. Also the Trail Blazers will go 0-82 because teams just hunt Dame and C.J.
Meanwhile the Spurs with stout point guard defenders are poised to finish 82-0 for the first time in NBA history.
Same with the Pelicans who have the best defense in the league thanks to 6'6 Lonzo Ball at point guard.
The Kings stifle everyone thanks to the 6'3 behemoth Fox manning the point guard spot.

I don't always agree with you but this is a really intelligent counterpoint argument here. So then is it the Jay's and Smart just not doing their job at the other end? Will the insertion of Rob into the starting lineup be enough to help change the defensive energy of this group?

I wish I had the answer so when Evan Turner gets fired I'll take his job.
All I can say is blaming point guard defense is just not accurate. Great point guard defenders seldom influence the games with their defense. Point guards have to be able to score, shoot and pass. That's why Eric Bledsoe who can do none of the things on offense well is an albatross even healthy despite his good defense.

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

I am not even sure if they need to trade Walker because I fully expect him to opt out after next season since his 4th year is a player option. Some team will be dumb enough to give him a 4 year 100 million dollar contract.

[GoGreen]

So, I know John Collins wants stupid money, but if he actually takes less than the max to play here (unlikely, but amuse me..) what's the most he can be offered without becoming an albatross down the line? Especially if Evan re-signs?

[JediMasterRevan]

Yeah the Sixers lose every game because teams just attack Seth Curry. Also the Nets lose every game because teams hunt Kyrie. The Utah Jazz have not won a single game because teams repeatedly target their 6'1, 175 lb point guard and 6'1 shooting guard. Also the Trail Blazers will go 0-82 because teams just hunt Dame and C.J.
Meanwhile the Spurs with stout point guard defenders are poised to finish 82-0 for the first time in NBA history.
Same with the Pelicans who have the best defense in the league thanks to 6'6 Lonzo Ball at point guard.
The Kings stifle everyone thanks to the 6'3 behemoth Fox manning the point guard spot.

I don't always agree with you but this is a really intelligent counterpoint argument here. So then is it the Jay's and Smart just not doing their job at the other end? Will the insertion of Rob into the starting lineup be enough to help change the defensive energy of this group?

I wish I had the answer so when Evan Turner gets fired I'll take his job.
All I can say is blaming point guard defense is just not accurate. Great point guard defenders seldom influence the games with their defense. Point guards have to be able to score, shoot and pass. That's why Eric Bledsoe who can do none of the things on offense well is an albatross even healthy despite his good defense.

Yes, having a defensive stalwort at pg is not going to miraculously win you games, but having a defensive stalwart at PG while being backup up with exccellent defenders in Brown, Smart, Tatum and the ever improving Williams makes you a point that cannot be attacked.


Kemba is isolated on offense, it was the entire playoffs last season. Butler, play after play on Kemba. Tell me how that didnt cost the team wins.

Kemba is an exploitable link the in the defensive armour.

Steph Curry is an excellent defender
Simmons can guard anyone including the pg spot
Chris paul is an excellent pg defender
Jrue
Ball
Murray
List goes on.

I know you pointed out that murray and ball specifically are not making the best defensive teams in the league, but Spurs rock a better defensive team than us (even though Brown, Tatum and Smart are all stellar defenders) and while the pelicans are worse defensively, Ball and bledsoe are the only wing defenders on the team (and eric has regressed)

[bucknersrevenge]

Yeah the Sixers lose every game because teams just attack Seth Curry. Also the Nets lose every game because teams hunt Kyrie. The Utah Jazz have not won a single game because teams repeatedly target their 6'1, 175 lb point guard and 6'1 shooting guard. Also the Trail Blazers will go 0-82 because teams just hunt Dame and C.J.
Meanwhile the Spurs with stout point guard defenders are poised to finish 82-0 for the first time in NBA history.
Same with the Pelicans who have the best defense in the league thanks to 6'6 Lonzo Ball at point guard.
The Kings stifle everyone thanks to the 6'3 behemoth Fox manning the point guard spot.

I don't always agree with you but this is a really intelligent counterpoint argument here. So then is it the Jay's and Smart just not doing their job at the other end? Will the insertion of Rob into the starting lineup be enough to help change the defensive energy of this group?

I wish I had the answer so when Evan Turner gets fired I'll take his job.
All I can say is blaming point guard defense is just not accurate. Great point guard defenders seldom influence the games with their defense. Point guards have to be able to score, shoot and pass. That's why Eric Bledsoe who can do none of the things on offense well is an albatross even healthy despite his good defense.

Kemba's issue is that his contract has now outpaced his value and I think most all of us realize that. He's not good enough at his pricepoint that you don't have to still add more talent, but can't because his cost is prohibitive. Given your beliefs on the matter, quick question:

At the deadline, Atlanta tried to get Jaylen, Supposedly Danny said you'd have to give up Young and Hunter. Would you have done that deal for us if you had your way?

[GoGreen]

Is John Collins still a possibility if he doesn't get that ridiculous money? (I mean I'm sure he will, but a man can dream...)

Collins at 27 mil, Evan at 18 mil, dump Kemba and another piece or 2, say Thompson?

[bucknersrevenge]

Obviously, he wouldn't be the first former #2 pick to get a chance to revitalize his career here. It's an interesting idea and I wouldn't mind waiving Moe Wagner to get a look on a 10-day or something.
https://heavy.com/sports/boston-celtics/sign-jabari-parker-buyout-market-rumors/?fbclid=IwAR0hpHD1LnWZTJ7Qi0CJ43s3zci4nXbrLqfyWVUJ_ziUhGdQq26OkkVGf5o

[BK_2020]

I don't always agree with you but this is a really intelligent counterpoint argument here. So then is it the Jay's and Smart just not doing their job at the other end? Will the insertion of Rob into the starting lineup be enough to help change the defensive energy of this group?

I wish I had the answer so when Evan Turner gets fired I'll take his job.
All I can say is blaming point guard defense is just not accurate. Great point guard defenders seldom influence the games with their defense. Point guards have to be able to score, shoot and pass. That's why Eric Bledsoe who can do none of the things on offense well is an albatross even healthy despite his good defense.

Kemba's issue is that his contract has now outpaced his value and I think most all of us realize that. He's not good enough at his pricepoint that you don't have to still add more talent, but can't because his cost is prohibitive. Given your beliefs on the matter, quick question:

At the deadline, Atlanta tried to get Jaylen, Supposedly Danny said you'd have to give up Young and Hunter. Would you have done that deal for us if you had your way?

I would trade Jaylen for Trae straight up if the CBA allowed it. Trae Young is an incredible talent, and good teams can hide his defensive issues. A great pnr orchestrator like Lebron will exploit match ups, but there aren't that many in the league and a Lebron will find a mismatch no matter who we run out.
If Kemba gets back to 2019-2020 level he will be fine. Already Kemba is only 26% of the cap, and that's with the cap not rising as rapidly as it was expected to. Sportrac is forecasting $115.7 mil for 2022-2023 cap. He will be a mere 20% against the cap at that point and will be movable. We aren't contending in 2021-2022 anyway.

[zoyathedestroya]

Is John Collins still a possibility if he doesn't get that ridiculous money? (I mean I'm sure he will, but a man can dream...)

Collins at 27 mil, Evan at 18 mil, dump Kemba and another piece or 2, say Thompson?

We don't have cap space. So it has to be an S&T. Which would hard cap us. So you got to dump Kemba first. I give this 0.03% chance of happening.

[gocelts]

its funny....out of the last 6 months and 100s of pages of threads (excluding a week prior when we knew names of targets) no one forecast that Fournier would be a "trade target" and of course freaking Wagner and Kornet weren't on anyone's radar...goes to show how fluid the market is and we really cant assume anything until a week before these deadlines.

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

Obviously, he wouldn't be the first former #2 pick to get a chance to revitalize his career here. It's an interesting idea and I wouldn't mind waiving Moe Wagner to get a look on a 10-day or something.
https://heavy.com/sports/boston-celtics/sign-jabari-parker-buyout-market-rumors/?fbclid=IwAR0hpHD1LnWZTJ7Qi0CJ43s3zci4nXbrLqfyWVUJ_ziUhGdQq26OkkVGf5o

Is Parker better than Ojeleye at this point?

[grindtime22]

I wish I had the answer so when Evan Turner gets fired I'll take his job.
All I can say is blaming point guard defense is just not accurate. Great point guard defenders seldom influence the games with their defense. Point guards have to be able to score, shoot and pass. That's why Eric Bledsoe who can do none of the things on offense well is an albatross even healthy despite his good defense.

Kemba's issue is that his contract has now outpaced his value and I think most all of us realize that. He's not good enough at his pricepoint that you don't have to still add more talent, but can't because his cost is prohibitive. Given your beliefs on the matter, quick question:

At the deadline, Atlanta tried to get Jaylen, Supposedly Danny said you'd have to give up Young and Hunter. Would you have done that deal for us if you had your way?

I would trade Jaylen for Trae straight up if the CBA allowed it. Trae Young is an incredible talent, and good teams can hide his defensive issues. A great pnr orchestrator like Lebron will exploit match ups, but there aren't that many in the league and a Lebron will find a mismatch no matter who we run out.
If Kemba gets back to 2019-2020 level he will be fine. Already Kemba is only 26% of the cap, and that's with the cap not rising as rapidly as it was expected to. Sportrac is forecasting $115.7 mil for 2022-2023 cap. He will be a mere 20% against the cap at that point and will be movable. We aren't contending in 2021-2022 anyway.

Not sure about your math

Kemba is 31.5% of the cap this year and will be 32.5% in 22/23

[zoyathedestroya]

Dedmon to Miami, per Shams.

[Celts17Pride]

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