RealGM 2020 Top 100 Project/List

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Owly
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Re: RealGM 2020 Top 100 Project/List 

Post#141 » by Owly » Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:30 pm

Ginoboleee wrote:I Also, it is possible that these RGM projects were based on significantly different voter pools. But I doubt it lol.

I am inclined to disagree here. I haven't checked and so am open to being wrong. But POY was done in 2010. I'd imagine substantial board turnover in general. Maybe slightly less so in terms of core members?

Ginoboleee wrote:Group 6: RGM might need their own Player's Only Meeting. There will always be edge cases, fair enough. But the discrepancy between the RGM 100 rank (first number) and the RGM POY Cumulative rank (number after player name) is quite striking. These two legends somehow ended up (just barely) on the sidelines in the RGM 2020 Top 100. And given that Luka is certain to join the fun, looks like at least 3 players who currently are on the RGM 2020 should be expected to step aside by next time around. Unless these are special cases where the yearly peak shouldn't matter so much. But why would that be? Please remind me. I am new, after all.
103. Bernard King (57)
104. Tiny Archibald (73)
(Both players from this group make my own Top 100, though Nate is on thin ice.)

Given you're asking a question on this group I'll answer though I would think it's obvious. High peak. Poor longevity of high quality. Archibald has a fabulous peak 3681 minutes, 25.2 PER, 13.9 OWS. 72 and to a lesser degree 75 are somewhat close. Then lots of less available and considerably less elite seasons.
King's best box might be '85 but an incomplete season and not playoff available. Or else '84. '84 is good with a very productive playoffs. Even so just 2667 minutes but a very good season. 81-83 are good but nothing huge on this scale of comp. Then lots of absences (some, though not most, may ding him him for the cost of paying him during such absences) and mostly - at this level - insignificant play. Some may also be inclined to ding King on certain intangible issues either from a ethical standpoint [though I'm not really aware of this being done] or moreso potential harm (e.g. to asset value, team reputation) with regard to the Utah incident and perhaps other issues he had.

In general you seem to trend ... dismissive? ... of longevity of quality and fairly heavily focused on being top 5. Here I would note that in a league of 30 teams (since Bobcats 04-05) there'd be 150 starters, say 240 significant rotation players at a time, or in a 23 team league (from Mavericks arrival 80-81 to 87-88) 115 starters and say 184 main rotation guys ... there's an awful lot of play going on outside the notional top 5 players to decide where title equity lies.
Ginoboleee
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Re: RealGM 2020 Top 100 Project/List 

Post#142 » by Ginoboleee » Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:38 pm

Owly wrote:
Ginoboleee wrote:I Also, it is possible that these RGM projects were based on significantly different voter pools. But I doubt it lol.

I am inclined to disagree here. I haven't checked and so am open to being wrong. But POY was done in 2010. I'd imagine substantial board turnover in general. Maybe slightly less so in terms of core members?


Right, right, 2010, you sure about that one?...
#30 (2.0) Giannis Antetokounmpo
#33 (1.4) Nikola Jokic
Life it is not just a series of calculations and a sum total of statistics, it's about experience, it's about participation, it is something more complex and more interesting than what is obvious.
Libeskind

Statistics are no substitute for judgment.
Clay
Owly
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Re: RealGM 2020 Top 100 Project/List 

Post#143 » by Owly » Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:46 pm

Ginoboleee wrote:
Owly wrote:
Ginoboleee wrote:I Also, it is possible that these RGM projects were based on significantly different voter pools. But I doubt it lol.

I am inclined to disagree here. I haven't checked and so am open to being wrong. But POY was done in 2010. I'd imagine substantial board turnover in general. Maybe slightly less so in terms of core members?


Right, right, 2010, you sure about that one?...
#30 (2.0) Giannis Antetokounmpo
#33 (1.4) Nikola Jokic

Yes.
You haven't actually read the threads have you? Please consider doing so before commenting.

The actual project occurred in 2010. It has been updated to include the years since. The voter pool for the vast majority is from 2010.
Ginoboleee
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Re: RealGM 2020 Top 100 Project/List 

Post#144 » by Ginoboleee » Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:51 pm

Owly wrote:
Ginoboleee wrote:
Owly wrote:I am inclined to disagree here. I haven't checked and so am open to being wrong. But POY was done in 2010. I'd imagine substantial board turnover in general. Maybe slightly less so in terms of core members?


Right, right, 2010, you sure about that one?...
#30 (2.0) Giannis Antetokounmpo
#33 (1.4) Nikola Jokic

Yes.
You haven't actually read the threads have you? Please consider doing so before commenting.

The actual project occurred in 2010. It has been updated to include the years since. The voter pool for the vast majority is from 2010.


Looks like we need to send in the C.S.I. Team for a closer investigation.
Eyeballing sure looks like core voting members have been around for a very very very long time indeed.

Later on today I will reply to the rest of your original friendly and informative and helpful message, regarding Short Peaks and Longevity Dismissals.

But right now I need to go straight to the Principal's Office, since I got Noob Red-Carded for not reading enough.
Hey, you did use the magic word though!
Life it is not just a series of calculations and a sum total of statistics, it's about experience, it's about participation, it is something more complex and more interesting than what is obvious.
Libeskind

Statistics are no substitute for judgment.
Clay
Owly
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,622
And1: 3,138
Joined: Mar 12, 2010

Re: RealGM 2020 Top 100 Project/List 

Post#145 » by Owly » Sun Jun 26, 2022 5:28 pm

Ginoboleee wrote:
Owly wrote:
Ginoboleee wrote:
Right, right, 2010, you sure about that one?...
#30 (2.0) Giannis Antetokounmpo
#33 (1.4) Nikola Jokic

Yes.
You haven't actually read the threads have you? Please consider doing so before commenting.

The actual project occurred in 2010. It has been updated to include the years since. The voter pool for the vast majority is from 2010.


Looks like we need to send in the C.S.I. Team for a closer investigation.
Eyeballing sure looks like core voting members have been around for a very very very long time indeed.

Later on today I will reply to the rest of your original friendly and informative and helpful message, regarding Short Peaks and Longevity Dismissals.

But right now I need to go straight to the Principal's Office, since I got Noob Red-Carded for not reading enough.
Hey, you did use the magic word though!

Not sure where you're going with this either in terms of what you were hoping for in terms of engagement or in general with shifting between apparent politeness and humility to quirky conceits to the "right, right .. you sure?" stuff and ignoring the point made with non-sequiturs (I had already stated core members may be more stable something not mentioned in either persons last post, but your post is quoting one that established that your implication [and tone can be unclear in text only, but I felt this was not entirely well done] was in fact wrong, which is essentially ignored).

I've seriously tryed to engage productively since you asked questions but I'm starting to question whether this is/was worthwhile ... I'm hoping it was. Just trying to be transparent here.
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Re: RealGM 2020 Top 100 Project/List 

Post#146 » by Ginoboleee » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:09 pm

To (my hopefully future friend) Owly,

Apologies for any unexpected shifts in tone, and excessive non-sequiturs.
Just trying to learn the ropes.
All good.
And yup you had mentioned core member stability from the start, I should have mentioned that but forgot.
In time I hope you realize that engaging with me is always worthwhile.
Of course, your mileage may vary, and as always, batteries are not included.
Thanks again for the transparency.

Looking forward to a nuanced subtle engagement on the various pro's and con's of longevity, or the different interpretations that can or should be derived from it.

(PS. OT question, hope you don't mind - what is your favorite film? Next time, maybe tell me the first one or two that come to mind. Or not. Either way, it's cool. Thanks!)
Life it is not just a series of calculations and a sum total of statistics, it's about experience, it's about participation, it is something more complex and more interesting than what is obvious.
Libeskind

Statistics are no substitute for judgment.
Clay
Ginoboleee
Sophomore
Posts: 210
And1: 75
Joined: Jun 19, 2022

Re: RealGM 2020 Top 100 Project/List 

Post#147 » by Ginoboleee » Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:27 am

CSI just sent back the report.
Owly, right again!

RGM POY 2010, n: 32
RGM Top 100 2020, n: 50

Only 4 overlapping voters were in both projects:
Doctor MJ
drza
penbeast0
TrueLAfan
Life it is not just a series of calculations and a sum total of statistics, it's about experience, it's about participation, it is something more complex and more interesting than what is obvious.
Libeskind

Statistics are no substitute for judgment.
Clay

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