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Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Bobby back on a 4/$49 deal, Ingles 1 year deal

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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Pat Opts In 

Post#881 » by machu46 » Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:29 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:I don't even think it's fair to compare those guys to David Lee. Lee was an All-Star with two separate clubs and was at least a willing passer even if he was also a defensive sieve. Wood and Collins are absolute black holes on offense, and the persistent rumors of Collins being upset over his role the last 2 years straight should probably be a pretty big red flag, as is the lukewarm trade market for him. He's not getting 16-20 shots a game here, and if he is, that's a detriment and overall net-negative to your team.


What exactly do we mean by being a black hole? Obviously he doesn't really pass the ball much, but that's simply not what his role has been in Atlanta. He's operated almost purely as a spot-up guy/rim-runner/lob threat. The ball doesn't really stick to his hands in any way; he just catches the ball and immediately scores more often than not. His average seconds per touch puts him in the same company as guys like Kevon Looney, Grant Williams, Duncan Robinson, and Chris Boucher. Maybe he'd turn into a black hole if given the kind of role he's seemingly looking for? I don't know. But he's been an absurdly efficient scorer every season of his career dating back to college and I think he's turned into an okayish defender.

I do think his potential complaints about his role is something that teams need to do their homework on. If he wants to be like a post-up big man that the offense is run through, that obviously is not going to fly. If, as some other reports have stated, he simply thinks the offense would run better if guys (mainly Trae) cut back on the early shot clock, terrible quality shots, that's a totally different thing and not a red flag IMO.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Pat Opts In 

Post#882 » by Ron Swanson » Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:43 pm

machu46 wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:I don't even think it's fair to compare those guys to David Lee. Lee was an All-Star with two separate clubs and was at least a willing passer even if he was also a defensive sieve. Wood and Collins are absolute black holes on offense, and the persistent rumors of Collins being upset over his role the last 2 years straight should probably be a pretty big red flag, as is the lukewarm trade market for him. He's not getting 16-20 shots a game here, and if he is, that's a detriment and overall net-negative to your team.


What exactly do we mean by being a black hole?


This isn't something new. Collins racked up a whopping total of 24 assists in 2 years (64-games) at Wake Forest despite being a featured offensive fulcrum. That hasn't changed in any of his now 5 seasons as a pro. He's completely allergic to passing the basketball. The fact that he's not-so-subtly insinuated that it's on Trae and the coaching staff for not "utilizing him properly" tells me that he's incredibly lacking in self-awareness, even if there's some truth to the fact that Trae pounds the air out of the ball.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Pat Opts In 

Post#883 » by machu46 » Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:17 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:
machu46 wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:I don't even think it's fair to compare those guys to David Lee. Lee was an All-Star with two separate clubs and was at least a willing passer even if he was also a defensive sieve. Wood and Collins are absolute black holes on offense, and the persistent rumors of Collins being upset over his role the last 2 years straight should probably be a pretty big red flag, as is the lukewarm trade market for him. He's not getting 16-20 shots a game here, and if he is, that's a detriment and overall net-negative to your team.


What exactly do we mean by being a black hole?


This isn't something new. Collins racked up a whopping total of 24 assists in 2 years (64-games) at Wake Forest despite being a featured offensive fulcrum. That hasn't changed in any of his now 5 seasons as a pro. He's completely allergic to passing the basketball. The fact that he's not-so-subtly insinuated that it's on Trae and the coaching staff for not "utilizing him properly" tells me that he's incredibly lacking in self-awareness, even if there's some truth to the fact that Trae pounds the air out of the ball.


Again, if he's really seeking to turn into a post-up guy that the offense is run through, I'm with ya. That's just not his best path forward and if that's what he's looking for, I would not at all be interested.

I don't really think catching the ball and quickly scoring is a bad thing though. It's not as if he's a turnover machine that doesn't pass. He just gets the ball and instantly scores at an extremely efficient rate. One of the best pick and roll guys in the league while also being a near 40% 3 point shooter on good volume and plays, IMO, okay defense while being decently switchable too.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Pat Opts In 

Post#884 » by DingleJerry » Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:38 pm

I'm in the camp that Collins gets nitpicked/bashed too much. Is he worth 25ish mil per year? Ideally no, you'd want him in the 15ish camp and save your 25+ for others. But that doesn't mean he's not a good player. For the Bucks specifically, he would seem to be a pretty ideal 2nd big to pair with Giannis imo. On O, he really has all tools for a big in that he can shoot, also can rim run, has some quickness/dribble to him. On D he's nothing to write hom about, but is athletic enough to not play the drop and in theory is the type of stretch 4 type we want to pair Giannis with. The time to get him was like two years ago though (when they got bobby instead), the window for the bucks to scoop him is gone imo.

He's better than Bobby and younger. But Bobby at 12ish mil or him at 25, I take Bobby. If things go sideways on Bobby somehow though he wouldn't be a bad fallback if the trade price isn't crazy. You don't need both guys imo though. That's too much to be locked up into bigs when Giannis is already on the team eating up big guy minutes
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Pat Opts In 

Post#885 » by Profound23 » Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:47 pm

DingleJerry wrote:I'm in the camp that Collins gets nitpicked/bashed too much. Is he worth 25ish mil per year? Ideally no, you'd want him in the 15ish camp and save your 25+ for others. But that doesn't mean he's not a good player. For the Bucks specifically, he would seem to be a pretty ideal 2nd big to pair with Giannis imo. On O, he really has all tools for a big in that he can shoot, also can rim run, has some quickness/dribble to him. On D he's nothing to write hom about, but is athletic enough to not play the drop and in theory is the type of stretch 4 type we want to pair Giannis with. The time to get him was like two years ago though (when they got bobby instead), the window for the bucks to scoop him is gone imo.

He's better than Bobby and younger. But Bobby at 12ish mil or him at 25, I take Bobby. If things go sideways on Bobby somehow though he wouldn't be a bad fallback if the trade price isn't crazy. You don't need both guys imo though. That's too much to be locked up into bigs when Giannis is already on the team eating up big guy minutes


Players go from being highly overrated to highly underrated at a blink of an eye.

I also think Collins is being undervalued here. But also agree that I am taking Bobby at his contract over Collins at his contract.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Pat Opts In 

Post#886 » by bdpecore » Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:48 pm

I’m all in on using our TPMLE on Delon Wright, resign Wes and Javon, and finding for an athletic back up big on a vet min deal like Damien Jones.

We can always look into filling holes at the trade deadline.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Pat Opts In 

Post#887 » by theFireBlanket » Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:01 pm

Collins doesn't move the needle. From ATL, give me DeAndre Hunter over him everytime. Definitely not letting Bobby go for a guy that provides nothing defensively.

Bobby has chemistry & two great seasons as a Buck. He improved on his first year, took less money to stay & work. You don't let a guy like this walk. PJ okay, Bobby no. Too talented, young & hard working.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Pat Opts In 

Post#888 » by Dick Tate » Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:11 pm

Guy doesn't sign an RFA offer but team signs him long term anyway. Less than a year later, team wants to dump. Team thought he was worth a top 10 pick (lol). Red flag/land mine.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Pat Opts In 

Post#889 » by Matches Malone » Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:24 pm

Saw this "rumor" multiple times on Twitter about the Bucks being interested in Derrick Rose but can't find an article to corroborate the story. Apparently, it's via the Ringer? Seems fake, but thought I'd throw it in here since it's a slow news day anyways.

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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Pat Opts In 

Post#890 » by machu46 » Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:30 pm

Matches Malone wrote:Saw this "rumor" multiple times on Twitter about the Bucks being interested in Derrick Rose but can't find an article to corroborate the story. Apparently, it's via the Ringer? Seems fake, but thought I'd throw it in here since it's a slow news day anyways.

Read on Twitter


I'm guessing it's fake but always possible it was said on one of their many podcasts.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Pat Opts In 

Post#891 » by theFireBlanket » Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:37 pm

Matches Malone wrote:Saw this "rumor" multiple times on Twitter about the Bucks being interested in Derrick Rose but can't find an article to corroborate the story. Apparently, it's via the Ringer? Seems fake, but thought I'd throw it in here since it's a slow news day anyways.

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All I know is young Giannis & Thanasis had a Rose jersey. So they're fans. Image

15m a year is a bit steep. His 19/20 season in Detroit is the playmaking he'd have to replicate to make it worthwhile, or dial it back even further.

All in all, I don't see it working out. Rather go after Rubio somehow.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Pat Opts In 

Post#892 » by MVP2110 » Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:47 pm

Grayson and Hill for Rose would be interesting. I think I'd pass on the deal but I get why it's tempting, we could use his playmaking, he's been over 40% from 3 the last few years, but he's a big injury risk.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Pat Opts In 

Post#893 » by bdpecore » Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:58 pm

Thoughts on signing Kyle Anderson to be our back up PG. He’s definitely a solid option who at 6’9” adds some size to our rotation. I know his shooting isn’t ideal but he does kill two birds with one stone by being the secondary ball handler and a bigger wing. We could also sign Danuel House to a vet min deal if we want another 3&D wing.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Pat Opts In 

Post#894 » by ShootingtheJ » Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:00 pm

soxperry wrote:
ShootingtheJ wrote:
JayMKE wrote:Collins puts up empty numbers and is a diva with 4 years left on his contract, think about why Atlanta would be dumping a guy like that. Hawks got Christian Wood as an upgrade on/off the court over Collins, that should give you a clue.


Why do you call Collins, or Wood, empty stats guys? Both of their teams were significantly better with them on the floor through their careers. Guys who make their teams worse, like Domatas Sabonis or DDR, are better examples of empty stats.

Also, Wood is not on the Hawks.

Atlanta is moving him because the GM is a moron who has no clue what their issues are. He's just guessing and scapegoating until he get fired.


There's definitely something going on with Christian Wood that NBA teams dont like. At his size and skillset, a team would have wanted to lock him up long term by now (and kept him) if that weren't the case. It smells like a locker room thing.


No doubt that Woods assignment failures drive coaches nuts despite his positive impact on teams.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Pat Opts In 

Post#895 » by raferfenix » Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:01 pm

Relieved that Rose to Milwaukee doesn't really seem to be a thing.

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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Pat Opts In 

Post#896 » by WRau1 » Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:05 pm

Bucks have looked into trading for Rose at the deadline the past 2 years so I wouldn't be surprised if they still have interest in him. I don't really see how we would make it work now, though. Unless we can get another team involved (like ORL) to absorb Allen + Hill while we get Rose.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Pat Opts In 

Post#897 » by machu46 » Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:07 pm

bdpecore wrote:Thoughts on signing Kyle Anderson to be our back up PG. He’s definitely a solid option who at 6’9” adds some size to our rotation. I know his shooting isn’t ideal but he does kill two birds with one stone by being the secondary ball handler and a bigger wing. We could also sign Danuel House to a vet min deal if we want another 3&D wing.


I tend to think Slowmo will be more expensive than the TPMLE, but if we can get him I would gladly do it.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Pat Opts In 

Post#898 » by Ron Swanson » Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:11 pm

Rose is a guy you pick up for the minimum after he's bought out, not someone you give up assets and cap room for.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Pat Opts In 

Post#899 » by theFireBlanket » Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:22 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:Rose is a guy you pick up for the minimum after he's bought out, not someone you give up assets and cap room for.


Like Thibs is dealing or releasing Rose anyway.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Pat Opts In 

Post#900 » by crowhead76 » Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:32 pm

bdpecore wrote:Thoughts on signing Kyle Anderson to be our back up PG. He’s definitely a solid option who at 6’9” adds some size to our rotation. I know his shooting isn’t ideal but he does kill two birds with one stone by being the secondary ball handler and a bigger wing. We could also sign Danuel House to a vet min deal if we want another 3&D wing.


Wasn't there rumors that they tried to get him at the deadline last year?
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