Lebron vs Jordan RAPM/Impact

[Ein Sof]

Any thoughts on 2010 Varejao being top 7 in RAPM?

So much for LeBron having "no help", lol.

[RCM88x]

Any thoughts on 2010 Varejao being top 7 in RAPM?

So much for LeBron having "no help", lol.

His on court +/- was +13.3 which is absolutely insane for anyone ever, higher than LeBron's that year. Granted his off-court +/- wasn't nearly as bad as Lebron's.

I think this is the case of someone on a 6.2 SRS (2nd in the league) having to be sort of good by virtue of playing almost all of their minutes with Lebron.

But the dude averaged 6 ppg in 23 mpg in the playoffs on 51 TS%, there is absolutely no argument that his is was anything more than a solid RS role player and a massive benefactor of playing almost exclusively with Lebron when no other player on the team did.

[Ein Sof]

Any thoughts on 2010 Varejao being top 7 in RAPM?

So much for LeBron having "no help", lol.

His on court +/- was +13.3 which is absolutely insane for anyone ever, higher than LeBron's that year. Granted his off-court +/- wasn't nearly as bad as Lebron's.

I think this is the case of someone on a 6.2 SRS (2nd in the league) having to be sort of good by virtue of playing almost all of their minutes with Lebron.

But the dude averaged 6 ppg in 23 mpg in the playoffs on 51 TS%, there is absolutely no argument that his is was anything more than a solid RS role player and a massive benefactor of playing almost exclusively with Lebron when no other player on the team did.

In the playoffs LeBron was a benefactor of Mo and Jamison. Both were higher than him in RAPM. (but lower than Rashard Lewis, who was the best player in the postseason)

[RCM88x]

Any thoughts on 2010 Varejao being top 7 in RAPM?

So much for LeBron having "no help", lol.

His on court +/- was +13.3 which is absolutely insane for anyone ever, higher than LeBron's that year. Granted his off-court +/- wasn't nearly as bad as Lebron's.

I think this is the case of someone on a 6.2 SRS (2nd in the league) having to be sort of good by virtue of playing almost all of their minutes with Lebron.

But the dude averaged 6 ppg in 23 mpg in the playoffs on 51 TS%, there is absolutely no argument that his is was anything more than a solid RS role player and a massive benefactor of playing almost exclusively with Lebron when no other player on the team did.

In the playoffs LeBron was a benefactor of Mo and Jamison. Both were higher than him in RAPM. (but lower than Rashard Lewis, who was the best player in the postseason)

What is the point of posting here if you're just going to troll? Don't you have anything better to do?

[Ein Sof]

His on court +/- was +13.3 which is absolutely insane for anyone ever, higher than LeBron's that year. Granted his off-court +/- wasn't nearly as bad as Lebron's.

I think this is the case of someone on a 6.2 SRS (2nd in the league) having to be sort of good by virtue of playing almost all of their minutes with Lebron.

But the dude averaged 6 ppg in 23 mpg in the playoffs on 51 TS%, there is absolutely no argument that his is was anything more than a solid RS role player and a massive benefactor of playing almost exclusively with Lebron when no other player on the team did.

In the playoffs LeBron was a benefactor of Mo and Jamison. Both were higher than him in RAPM. (but lower than Rashard Lewis, who was the best player in the postseason)

What is the point of posting here if you're just going to troll? Don't you have anything better to do?

What is the point of posting here if you're just going to insult people? Don't you have anything better to do?

[Sark]

He had a lower average time of possession in 2016 than he did in 2015.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1

6.3 seconds in 2015, 5.3 in 2016. That's lower than Steph most years. The farthest thing from heliocentric. Among teams who made it to the finals the Cavs had the #3 best postseason offense ever behind only the 17 Cavs and the 01 Lakers. Didn't do well huh.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lMHVWmmq6lEy9O9XqLk0Ji-xawtX8gPRtHHwbvV9634/edit#gid=999526014

The agenda pushing from you guys is crazy. You never come with any evidence, you just throw out a bunch of anecdotes and pray that nobody can find hard data to directly debunk what you're claiming.

What is the relevance to this? I posted 2 indisputable facts countering the notion that Lebron never played in a motion offense.

He did in 2015. Fact.
His stats were the worst he's had since 2007. Fact.

There is no agenda in that.

Huh, what? Facts devoid of context mean next to nothing, and they can absolutely be used to push an agenda.

I posted 2 indisputable facts countering the notion that Michael Jordan is a better basketball player than Horace Grant.

With a healthy Horace Grant, the Bulls were never able to beat the Magic in the playoffs. Fact.
The Bulls were 2 wins worse after Jordan left. The Bulls were 8 wins worse after Grant left and Jordan came back.Fact.

Also, Michael Jordan never won a single playoff series without Scottie Pippen. Another fact.

There is no agenda in that! Just indisputable facts .

Saying Jordan never beat the Magic with a healthy Grant, or never won a playoff series without Pippen are facts.

Saying that they are better players than Jordan because of that is an opinion.

Do you not understand the difference?

[OhayoKD]

None of these excuses change the fact that he did play in a non heliocentric motion offense, and didn't do well in it.

they swept a 60 win team and went 2-1 up on a 67 win team with less help than jordan's ever played with.

That's what you call "not doing well"?

[Sark]

None of these excuses change the fact that he did play in a non heliocentric motion offense, and didn't do well in it.

they swept a 60 win team and went 2-1 up on a 67 win team with less help than jordan's ever played with.

That's what you call "not doing well"?

His stats were down almost entirely across the board. Lowest PER since 2007. Lowest true shooting since 2008. Sub .200 ws/48 for the first time since his rookie year.

Compared to other Lebron prime seasons, yea I'd say that's not doing so well.

[capfan33]

None of these excuses change the fact that he did play in a non heliocentric motion offense, and didn't do well in it.

they swept a 60 win team and went 2-1 up on a 67 win team with less help than jordan's ever played with.

That's what you call "not doing well"?

His stats were down almost entirely across the board. Lowest PER since 2007. Lowest true shooting since 2008. Sub .200 ws/48 for the first time since his rookie year.

Compared to other Lebron prime seasons, yea I'd say that's not doing so well.

His back was shot that year, I'm not sure why you're so determined to die on this hill. Don't think it had much to do with the offense at all, especially physically he looked awful a good portion of that year.

[OhayoKD]

None of these excuses change the fact that he did play in a non heliocentric motion offense, and didn't do well in it.

they swept a 60 win team and went 2-1 up on a 67 win team with less help than jordan's ever played with.

That's what you call "not doing well"?

His stats were down almost entirely across the board. Lowest PER since 2007. Lowest true shooting since 2008. Sub .200 ws/48 for the first time since his rookie year.

Compared to other Lebron prime seasons, yea I'd say that's not doing so well.

box-scpre aggregates? come on now

[Jaivl]

What is the relevance to this? I posted 2 indisputable facts countering the notion that Lebron never played in a motion offense.

He did in 2015. Fact.
His stats were the worst he's had since 2007. Fact.

There is no agenda in that.

Huh, what? Facts devoid of context mean next to nothing, and they can absolutely be used to push an agenda.

I posted 2 indisputable facts countering the notion that Michael Jordan is a better basketball player than Horace Grant.

With a healthy Horace Grant, the Bulls were never able to beat the Magic in the playoffs. Fact.
The Bulls were 2 wins worse after Jordan left. The Bulls were 8 wins worse after Grant left and Jordan came back.Fact.

Also, Michael Jordan never won a single playoff series without Scottie Pippen. Another fact.

There is no agenda in that! Just indisputable facts .

Saying Jordan never beat the Magic with a healthy Grant, or never won a playoff series without Pippen are facts.

Saying that they are better players than Jordan because of that is an opinion.

Do you not understand the difference?

Yes, I understand the difference. I'm perfectly aware my post was stupid, while you think yours wasn't.

Saying whatever facts you said is a fact ("his stats were the worst he's had since 2007" is not even a fact, it's an opinion, but oh well).

Saying LeBron can't play on a motion offense is an opinion.

Do you not understand the difference?

[Sark]

Huh, what? Facts devoid of context mean next to nothing, and they can absolutely be used to push an agenda.

Saying Jordan never beat the Magic with a healthy Grant, or never won a playoff series without Pippen are facts.

Saying that they are better players than Jordan because of that is an opinion.

Do you not understand the difference?

Yes, I understand the difference. I'm perfectly aware my post was stupid, while you think yours wasn't.

Saying whatever facts you said is a fact ("his stats were the worst he's had since 2007" is not even a fact, it's an opinion, but oh well).

Saying LeBron can't play on a motion offense is an opinion.

Do you not understand the difference?

But I never said Lebron can't play in a motion offense...

I said he did.