Lowest reasonable ranking for Hakeem?

[Ein Sof]

His career has been worse than the guys in the top 10 though.

Give him Penny, Kobe, Wade, LeBron and let's see how his career unfolds.

Sure but that is just speculation

Ok? Having Kobe or Wade or similar players would obviously improve his career, which is already pretty great BTW.

How many guys could win with Otis Thorpe and Robert Horry as help?

[Cavsfansince84]

What would you consider "unreasonable criteria"?

Its hard to say without seeing the criteria but I think any which puts very little emphasis on prime and makes no use of any metrics is pretty weak/unreasonable. Ones that are almost entirely peak driven I also would say are unreasonable.

[Stalwart]

Give him Penny, Kobe, Wade, LeBron and let's see how his career unfolds.

Sure but that is just speculation

Ok? Having Kobe or Wade or similar players would obviously improve his career, which is already pretty great BTW.

I would suspect so but we don't know that. Its also possible that Hakeem and Kobe or Wade's playstyle or personality clash. Someone could massively underperform at the wrong time. Or perhaps they win a few titles but Kobe and Wade win the FMVPs and get all the credit.

Also, you know what comes along with having Kobe or Wade on your team? Expectations. That is someththing Hakeem has never had to deal with. Could Hakeem handle the scrutiny and pressure Shaq was facing leading up to the 2000 season? Or What Kobe faced leading up to 2009? Or Lebron prior to 2012? Or what KD faces now? We don't know how Hakeem would react in that situation. He might get overwhelmed, or frustrated, and shook,or anything. We simply don't know.

There was never a season or period of time where we were expecting or putting pressure on Hakeem Olajuwon to win a title like we've done with the rest of the top 10. Why didn't we put that pressure and expectations on Hakeem? Because very few people considered him to be an all time great, potential top 10 all time player during the bulk of his playing career the way we did with Jordan Shaq, Kobe, ect. That all came after he went back to back. Must be nice to play your entire career with no expectations from the media and the public.

How many guys could win with Otis Thorpe and Robert Horry as help?

Is Otis Thorpe and Robert Horry that much better than what Ewing and Robinson had? I actually think Hakeem had a very good supporting cast in 94. He didn't have a costar but had excellent role players.

[Ein Sof]

Sure but that is just speculation

Ok? Having Kobe or Wade or similar players would obviously improve his career, which is already pretty great BTW.

I would suspect so but we don't know that. Its also possible that Hakeem and Kobe or Wade's playstyle or personality clash. Someone could massively underperform at the wrong time. Or perhaps they win a few titles but Kobe and Wade win the FMVPs and get all the credit.

Also, you know what comes along with having Kobe or Wade on your team? Expectations. That is someththing Hakeem has never had to deal with. Could Hakeem handle the scrutiny and pressure Shaq was facing leading up to the 2000 season? Or What Kobe faced leading up to 2009? Or Lebron prior to 2012? Or what KD faces now? We don't know how Hakeem would react in that situation. He might get overwhelmed, or frustrated, and shook,or anything. We simply don't know.

There was never a season or period of time where we were expecting or putting pressure on Hakeem Olajuwon to win a title like we've done with the rest of the top 10. Why didn't we put that pressure and expectations on Hakeem? Because very few people considered him to be an all time great, potential top 10 all time player during the bulk of his playing career the way we did with Jordan Shaq, Kobe, ect. That all came after he went back to back. Must be nice to play your entire career with no expectations from the media and the public.

How many guys could win with Otis Thorpe and Robert Horry as help?

Is Otis Thorpe and Robert Horry that much better than what Ewing and Robinson had? I actually think Hakeem had a very good supporting cast in 94. He didn't have a costar but had excellent role players.

I like how you criticise me for "speculating" and then turn around and respond with, essentially "he don't got that dawg".

Like... the guy defeated 4 57-win teams in one postseason but the media? There's no damn way he could handle the media!


Ewing and Robinson never won so I don't see your point.
Or what makes Hakeem's cast great. It was like 2011 Dirk's. (and that one ring made Dirk top 15-20 instead of "Nowinski")

[capfan33]

Ok? Having Kobe or Wade or similar players would obviously improve his career, which is already pretty great BTW.

I would suspect so but we don't know that. Its also possible that Hakeem and Kobe or Wade's playstyle or personality clash. Someone could massively underperform at the wrong time. Or perhaps they win a few titles but Kobe and Wade win the FMVPs and get all the credit.

Also, you know what comes along with having Kobe or Wade on your team? Expectations. That is someththing Hakeem has never had to deal with. Could Hakeem handle the scrutiny and pressure Shaq was facing leading up to the 2000 season? Or What Kobe faced leading up to 2009? Or Lebron prior to 2012? Or what KD faces now? We don't know how Hakeem would react in that situation. He might get overwhelmed, or frustrated, and shook,or anything. We simply don't know.

There was never a season or period of time where we were expecting or putting pressure on Hakeem Olajuwon to win a title like we've done with the rest of the top 10. Why didn't we put that pressure and expectations on Hakeem? Because very few people considered him to be an all time great, potential top 10 all time player during the bulk of his playing career the way we did with Jordan Shaq, Kobe, ect. That all came after he went back to back. Must be nice to play your entire career with no expectations from the media and the public.

How many guys could win with Otis Thorpe and Robert Horry as help?

Is Otis Thorpe and Robert Horry that much better than what Ewing and Robinson had? I actually think Hakeem had a very good supporting cast in 94. He didn't have a costar but had excellent role players.

I like how you criticise me for "speculating" and then turn around and respond with, essentially "he don't got that dawg".

Like... the guy defeated 4 57-win teams in one postseason but the media? There's no damn way he could handle the media!


Ewing and Robinson never won so I don't see your point.
Or what makes Hakeem's cast great. It was like 2011 Dirk's. (and that one ring made Dirk top 15-20 instead of "Nowinski")

Dirk's 2011 cast was extremely good lol.

[Ein Sof]

I would suspect so but we don't know that. Its also possible that Hakeem and Kobe or Wade's playstyle or personality clash. Someone could massively underperform at the wrong time. Or perhaps they win a few titles but Kobe and Wade win the FMVPs and get all the credit.

Also, you know what comes along with having Kobe or Wade on your team? Expectations. That is someththing Hakeem has never had to deal with. Could Hakeem handle the scrutiny and pressure Shaq was facing leading up to the 2000 season? Or What Kobe faced leading up to 2009? Or Lebron prior to 2012? Or what KD faces now? We don't know how Hakeem would react in that situation. He might get overwhelmed, or frustrated, and shook,or anything. We simply don't know.

There was never a season or period of time where we were expecting or putting pressure on Hakeem Olajuwon to win a title like we've done with the rest of the top 10. Why didn't we put that pressure and expectations on Hakeem? Because very few people considered him to be an all time great, potential top 10 all time player during the bulk of his playing career the way we did with Jordan Shaq, Kobe, ect. That all came after he went back to back. Must be nice to play your entire career with no expectations from the media and the public.



Is Otis Thorpe and Robert Horry that much better than what Ewing and Robinson had? I actually think Hakeem had a very good supporting cast in 94. He didn't have a costar but had excellent role players.

I like how you criticise me for "speculating" and then turn around and respond with, essentially "he don't got that dawg".

Like... the guy defeated 4 57-win teams in one postseason but the media? There's no damn way he could handle the media!


Ewing and Robinson never won so I don't see your point.
Or what makes Hakeem's cast great. It was like 2011 Dirk's. (and that one ring made Dirk top 15-20 instead of "Nowinski")

Dirk's 2011 cast was extremely good lol.

I dunno about "extremely good".

Maybe compared to the '94 Rockets. Dirk had Chandler anchoring the D and Terry would be 2nd best on the Rockets, especially in the playoffs.

[Stalwart]

Ok? Having Kobe or Wade or similar players would obviously improve his career, which is already pretty great BTW.

I would suspect so but we don't know that. Its also possible that Hakeem and Kobe or Wade's playstyle or personality clash. Someone could massively underperform at the wrong time. Or perhaps they win a few titles but Kobe and Wade win the FMVPs and get all the credit.

Also, you know what comes along with having Kobe or Wade on your team? Expectations. That is someththing Hakeem has never had to deal with. Could Hakeem handle the scrutiny and pressure Shaq was facing leading up to the 2000 season? Or What Kobe faced leading up to 2009? Or Lebron prior to 2012? Or what KD faces now? We don't know how Hakeem would react in that situation. He might get overwhelmed, or frustrated, and shook,or anything. We simply don't know.

There was never a season or period of time where we were expecting or putting pressure on Hakeem Olajuwon to win a title like we've done with the rest of the top 10. Why didn't we put that pressure and expectations on Hakeem? Because very few people considered him to be an all time great, potential top 10 all time player during the bulk of his playing career the way we did with Jordan Shaq, Kobe, ect. That all came after he went back to back. Must be nice to play your entire career with no expectations from the media and the public.

How many guys could win with Otis Thorpe and Robert Horry as help?

Is Otis Thorpe and Robert Horry that much better than what Ewing and Robinson had? I actually think Hakeem had a very good supporting cast in 94. He didn't have a costar but had excellent role players.

I like how you criticise me for "speculating" and then turn around and respond with, essentially "he don't got that dawg".

Like... the guy defeated 4 57-win teams in one postseason but the media? There's no damn way he could handle the media!

None of this addresses my point

Ewing and Robinson never won so I don't see your point.

You asked who else could win with Robert Horry and Otis Thorpe. Well, if the opponent is the New York Knicks featuring John Starks and Charles Oakley then I would say quite a few. This isn't like Dirk running through stacked ATG teams in 2011. No, Hakeem was facing the San Antonio Spurs featuring Sean Elliot and Vinny Del Negro.

Or what makes Hakeem's cast great. It was like 2011 Dirk's. (and that one ring made Dirk top 15-20 instead of "Nowinski")

Well for one they were able to consistently execute and make big plays on both sides of the court. Both Horry and Elie have proven to be championship level role players through out their careers. Otis Thorpe had recently been an all star in 92. Kenny Smith, Sam Cassell and Vernon Maxwell were all double digit scorers who could shoot. The Rockets were a good 3pt shooting team which helped spread the floor for Hakeem. They were all clutch. Kenny Smith hit big shots. Elie hit them with the kiss of death. Big Shot Rob's first big shots came in 94.

[Ein Sof]

I would suspect so but we don't know that. Its also possible that Hakeem and Kobe or Wade's playstyle or personality clash. Someone could massively underperform at the wrong time. Or perhaps they win a few titles but Kobe and Wade win the FMVPs and get all the credit.

Also, you know what comes along with having Kobe or Wade on your team? Expectations. That is someththing Hakeem has never had to deal with. Could Hakeem handle the scrutiny and pressure Shaq was facing leading up to the 2000 season? Or What Kobe faced leading up to 2009? Or Lebron prior to 2012? Or what KD faces now? We don't know how Hakeem would react in that situation. He might get overwhelmed, or frustrated, and shook,or anything. We simply don't know.

There was never a season or period of time where we were expecting or putting pressure on Hakeem Olajuwon to win a title like we've done with the rest of the top 10. Why didn't we put that pressure and expectations on Hakeem? Because very few people considered him to be an all time great, potential top 10 all time player during the bulk of his playing career the way we did with Jordan Shaq, Kobe, ect. That all came after he went back to back. Must be nice to play your entire career with no expectations from the media and the public.



Is Otis Thorpe and Robert Horry that much better than what Ewing and Robinson had? I actually think Hakeem had a very good supporting cast in 94. He didn't have a costar but had excellent role players.

I like how you criticise me for "speculating" and then turn around and respond with, essentially "he don't got that dawg".

Like... the guy defeated 4 57-win teams in one postseason but the media? There's no damn way he could handle the media!

None of this addresses my point

Ewing and Robinson never won so I don't see your point.

You asked who else could win with Robert Horry and Otis Thorpe. Well, if the opponent is the New York Knicks featuring John Starks and Charles Oakley then I would say quite a few. This isn't like Dirk running through stacked ATG teams in 2011. No, Hakeem was facing the San Antonio Spurs featuring Sean Elliot and Vinny Del Negro.

Or what makes Hakeem's cast great. It was like 2011 Dirk's. (and that one ring made Dirk top 15-20 instead of "Nowinski")

Well for one they were able to consistently execute and make big plays on both sides of the court. Both Horry and Elie have proven to be championship level role players through out their careers. Otis Thorpe had recently been an all star in 92. Kenny Smith, Sam Cassell and Vernon Maxwell were all double digit scorers who could shoot. The Rockets were a good 3pt shooting team which helped spread the floor for Hakeem. They were all clutch. Kenny Smith hit big shots. Elie hit them with the kiss of death. Big Shot Rob's first big shots came in 94.

You don't have a point, so I can't address it. You are claiming facing MVP Robinson or leading your team to rings isn't mentally demanding if the media doesn't come up with hot takes about you or whatever. That's a ridiculous statement.

[capfan33]

I like how you criticise me for "speculating" and then turn around and respond with, essentially "he don't got that dawg".

Like... the guy defeated 4 57-win teams in one postseason but the media? There's no damn way he could handle the media!


Ewing and Robinson never won so I don't see your point.
Or what makes Hakeem's cast great. It was like 2011 Dirk's. (and that one ring made Dirk top 15-20 instead of "Nowinski")

Dirk's 2011 cast was extremely good lol.

I dunno about "extremely good".

Maybe compared to the '94 Rockets. Dirk had Chandler anchoring the D and Terry would be 2nd best on the Rockets, especially in the playoffs.

They were a very deep and balanced team with great shooting and defense. The idea that Dirk just dragged that team to a title isn't accurate, Chandler especially was the key difference compared to Dirk's past teams that didn't have a good rim protector next to him.

And while I don't know that much about the Rockets, they did have great spacing and Drexler was a pretty good 2nd option.

[Stalwart]

I like how you criticise me for "speculating" and then turn around and respond with, essentially "he don't got that dawg".

Like... the guy defeated 4 57-win teams in one postseason but the media? There's no damn way he could handle the media!

None of this addresses my point

Ewing and Robinson never won so I don't see your point.

You asked who else could win with Robert Horry and Otis Thorpe. Well, if the opponent is the New York Knicks featuring John Starks and Charles Oakley then I would say quite a few. This isn't like Dirk running through stacked ATG teams in 2011. No, Hakeem was facing the San Antonio Spurs featuring Sean Elliot and Vinny Del Negro.

Or what makes Hakeem's cast great. It was like 2011 Dirk's. (and that one ring made Dirk top 15-20 instead of "Nowinski")

Well for one they were able to consistently execute and make big plays on both sides of the court. Both Horry and Elie have proven to be championship level role players through out their careers. Otis Thorpe had recently been an all star in 92. Kenny Smith, Sam Cassell and Vernon Maxwell were all double digit scorers who could shoot. The Rockets were a good 3pt shooting team which helped spread the floor for Hakeem. They were all clutch. Kenny Smith hit big shots. Elie hit them with the kiss of death. Big Shot Rob's first big shots came in 94.

You don't have a point, so I can't address it. You are claiming facing MVP Robinson or leading your team to rings isn't mentally demanding if the media doesn't come up with hot takes about you or whatever. That's a ridiculous statement.

Pressure comes from expectations. No expectations = no pressure.

[Ein Sof]

None of this addresses my point




You asked who else could win with Robert Horry and Otis Thorpe. Well, if the opponent is the New York Knicks featuring John Starks and Charles Oakley then I would say quite a few. This isn't like Dirk running through stacked ATG teams in 2011. No, Hakeem was facing the San Antonio Spurs featuring Sean Elliot and Vinny Del Negro.



Well for one they were able to consistently execute and make big plays on both sides of the court. Both Horry and Elie have proven to be championship level role players through out their careers. Otis Thorpe had recently been an all star in 92. Kenny Smith, Sam Cassell and Vernon Maxwell were all double digit scorers who could shoot. The Rockets were a good 3pt shooting team which helped spread the floor for Hakeem. They were all clutch. Kenny Smith hit big shots. Elie hit them with the kiss of death. Big Shot Rob's first big shots came in 94.

You don't have a point, so I can't address it. You are claiming facing MVP Robinson or leading your team to rings isn't mentally demanding if the media doesn't come up with hot takes about you or whatever. That's a ridiculous statement.

Pressure comes from expectations. No expectations = no pressure.

Ok, got it... it's a troll thread

Carry on