Better Player Right Now: Stephen Curry or Jokic

[dhsilv2]

Hear this all the time from Jokic fans on here (same ones that say he is a generational talent based on making a bubble wcf due to Murray averaging 26ppg and then getting rolled by LAL. Jokic has averaged over 20ppg only 3 times and is 27). Yet alot of these people, and people in general, say Westbrooks MVP when he averaged 31/10/10 was a farce because of inflated stats as the only option on his team. Russ is the best rebounding guard in the history of the league but people wont acknowledge it because the rebounds and assists were "stat padding" somehow (I could be wrong, but I think rebounds and assists are productive plays). Its just crazy how much this board props up Jokic because of his TS%. One could even say his assists are manufactured because they are nothing more than high post dribble handoffs that lead to jumpshots. Such a double standard for the Joker on here.

You do not see why Jokic, averaging 65% TS is propped up over wbrook averaging 55% TS? If westbrook averaged 65% TS, he would be steph curry. There is a significant discrepancy in both efficiency and turnovers no matter how you spin it.

Disclaimer: I thought wbrook deserved the mvp and that particular year was a historically great year for him.

I am no Westbrook fan but agree about his MVP year. He dragged a team further than it had any right to go, his statistics including triple doubles correlated with his team winning, and he outperformed his main rival for the MVP award whom I actually favoured at the time in the games at the end of the regular season.

Leonard who I now hate should have won it, but Westbrook was a legit choice too...

[ShootersShoot]

You do not see why Jokic, averaging 65% TS is propped up over wbrook averaging 55% TS? If westbrook averaged 65% TS, he would be steph curry. There is a significant discrepancy in both efficiency and turnovers no matter how you spin it.

Disclaimer: I thought wbrook deserved the mvp and that particular year was a historically great year for him.

I am no Westbrook fan but agree about his MVP year. He dragged a team further than it had any right to go, his statistics including triple doubles correlated with his team winning, and he outperformed his main rival for the MVP award whom I actually favoured at the time in the games at the end of the regular season.

Leonard who I now hate should have won it, but Westbrook was a legit choice too...

Kawhi had a damn good argument..cant believe he led that roster to 61 wins and a wcf appearance.

[dhsilv2]

I am no Westbrook fan but agree about his MVP year. He dragged a team further than it had any right to go, his statistics including triple doubles correlated with his team winning, and he outperformed his main rival for the MVP award whom I actually favoured at the time in the games at the end of the regular season.

Leonard who I now hate should have won it, but Westbrook was a legit choice too...

Kawhi had a damn good argument..cant believe he led that roster to 61 wins and a wcf appearance.

Though to be fully in theme, Curry was the best player in the NBA that year with Lebron RIGHT there with him. And the old man CP3 next.

But MVP is what it is. Leonard was the logical choice of those who'd get a vote.

[RTG HD]

Jokic averages 27ppg, 13rpg, and 8apg on like 65-66% TS, with 100% of the defense keying in on him. Its very obvious those are generational center numbers. One doesnt have to win a championship for people to be able to see that. And yes, he is easily better than booker/Ja/Trae cmon now. Looking at Jokic's skillset, is he any less skilled than say, Dirk, whom I would consider a generational player?

Even if you don't consider him generational, Jokic is easily giving superstar impact.

My goal is still to win championships. When Jokic shows he can do that I will change my mind. Until then I still pick Curry who has repeatedly proven that he can be the leader of a championship team.

Do you think Michael Jordan is better than jokic too?

Michael Jordan when he was winning championships, absolutely.

[Jables]

If Jokic weren't on the Warriors and they didn't win, guaranteed everyone would be blaming whoever gets most of Curry's credit all the damn time. He is literally perfect and if you ever question why the standards are so much lower for him it's just hand waved away as his teammates being trash.

"We pay this scrub Thompson to shoot and he scores 35% of his FG's in the finals, everyone called Poole a star and he has to get dragged all the time, does nothing besides score, Draymond literally does nothing, smdh Jokic can't win with these cats, we pay Wiggins $30 million to score 17 points and he acts like he's KD because Jokic dragged him to a win"

[Sgt Major]

Anyone who compared Jokic to Westbrook has no idea about what they were talking about.

Westbrook's only goal was to stack up stats, while Jokic has like 30 games where he needed another point or a rebound or an assist to get a triple double but he simply didn't care and instead of playing in garbage time he spent it on the bench.

The best PG he played with - Jamal Murray, who is a very good player, but even isn't a pure PG
The best SG he played with - Gary Harris, always injured, lost his shot three years ago, unreliable
The best SF he played with - MPJ, who's also spent more time at the infirmary than on the court or Will Barton who is... Will Barton
The best PF he played with - Paul Millsap, washed up basically before he joined the team, yet had a few nice runs or Aaron Gordon who is a good player, but not even a star.


And you're asking how come Jokic didn't win a ring yet or play in the finals? Yeah, gimme a break.

[hardenASG13]

Anyone who compared Jokic to Westbrook has no idea about what they were talking about.

Westbrook's only goal was to stack up stats, while Jokic has like 30 games where he needed another point or a rebound or an assist to get a triple double but he simply didn't care and instead of playing in garbage time he spent it on the bench.

The best PG he played with - Jamal Murray, who is a very good player, but even isn't a pure PG
The best SG he played with - Gary Harris, always injured, lost his shot three years ago, unreliable
The best SF he played with - MPJ, who's also spent more time at the infirmary than on the court or Will Barton who is... Will Barton
The best PF he played with - Paul Millsap, washed up basically before he joined the team, yet had a few nice runs or Aaron Gordon who is a good player, but not even a star.


And you're asking how come Jokic didn't win a ring yet or play in the finals? Yeah, gimme a break.

Just pointing out that westbrook averaged 31/10/10 and got his team to a 6 seed, just like Jokic. If you think he was just out for stats you didnt watch him. Yet his MVP is often disregarded while Jokic is praised like an all time great on here. 3 seasons averaging over 20 ppg and he is 27.

[hardenASG13]

You do not see why Jokic, averaging 65% TS is propped up over wbrook averaging 55% TS? If westbrook averaged 65% TS, he would be steph curry. There is a significant discrepancy in both efficiency and turnovers no matter how you spin it.

Disclaimer: I thought wbrook deserved the mvp and that particular year was a historically great year for him.

I was replying to the guy who said Jokics 27/14/8 made him better than curry. Then you have to consider things like how often OKC scored on putbacks on his misses, etc when their only option was him attacking the rim alot of times. The percentages can be misleading as far as impact. Turnovers are/have always been a problem for Russ, true. He did average 31/10/10 which most people seem to go out of their way to discredit, while Jokic is hailed as a GOAT on here.

Ive never seen a player accomplish so little (again he is 27 and has averaged over 20ppg 3 times) yet be propped up so much as Jokic. He certainly has time to build on that, but man if he loses any mobility around age 30 at his size/weight, it may not be as much time as people think. There are alot of studs coming up right now and always.

I think he had the same issues as steph, and by that I mean kind of a late bloomer so people are not sure how sustainable those gaudy stats may be.

The thing about Jokic is, he has led his team to the WCF the last time he played with murray... He has not had murray in the past two playoffs. The reason why people tout Jokic so highly is because they are able to look past the holes in his roster with the current injuries and judge him based on his skills alone. How far exactly do you expect Jokic to go without murray and MPJ? Do you expect him to get to the wcf without them?

KG was considered a superstar even though he never led his team past the first round until his eighth season. Sometimes, you have to look past the lack of perceived team accomplishment and see a player for what he really is. At least to me, its very evident Jokic is one of the 10 best players in the nba.

Did he really lead them to the WCF though? Murray was their leading scorer in those playoffs, and went for 40 plus 4 times, 50 twice! 3 of those came in a first round series that went 7 games. They lose that series if Murray doesnt play at an all time level. The 4th one came in game 7 of the second round.
Jokic was very solid in his own right, averaging 24ppg in those playoffs compared to Murrays 26. His high game was 34 and he averaged 22ppg in the WCF. Its fair to say Murray led them to the WCF as much as Jokic did.

And yes, Jokic is quite clearly one of the top players in the NBA today.

[DroseReturnChi]

Jokic never had an All-Star teammate even close to his prime. Give him at least one of those and see what happens.

This is pretty simple. Look at their numbers the last two seasons, including the playoffs:

Would people take the 28/6/5 guy or the 27/12/8 guy?

This is a beatdown. It's Jokic, easily.

You do realize the Warriors offense moves the ball around a lot more than Denver does right? Of course Jokic is gonna put up some gaudy assist numbers when everything goes through him.

The real beatdown was Steph's Warriors gentleman sweeping the Nuggets

Curry isnt even good anymore lol other than his Final performance which is standard error. How can you compared the greatest two way center with a guy heading for retirement? Maybe Curry had 1 better season in his peak than jokics entire season but at this career not even close Curry was a nobody in rs. The fact that a center has more assists than a so called greatest pg is laughable.

[ty 4191]

This is pretty simple. Look at their numbers the last two seasons, including the playoffs:

Would people take the 28/6/5 guy or the 27/12/8 guy?

This is a beatdown. It's Jokic, easily.

You do realize the Warriors offense moves the ball around a lot more than Denver does right? Of course Jokic is gonna put up some gaudy assist numbers when everything goes through him.

The real beatdown was Steph's Warriors gentleman sweeping the Nuggets

Curry isnt even good anymore lol other than his Final performance which is standard error. How can you compared the greatest two way center with a guy heading for retirement? Maybe Curry had 1 better season in his peak than jokics entire season but at this career not even close Curry was a nobody in rs. The fact that a center has more assists than a so called greatest pg is laughable.

It IS laughable.

Yes, people. Jokic is that tremendous. Curry is not on his level (anymore). Period.

[BoatsNZones]

You do realize the Warriors offense moves the ball around a lot more than Denver does right? Of course Jokic is gonna put up some gaudy assist numbers when everything goes through him.

The real beatdown was Steph's Warriors gentleman sweeping the Nuggets

Curry isnt even good anymore lol other than his Final performance which is standard error. How can you compared the greatest two way center with a guy heading for retirement? Maybe Curry had 1 better season in his peak than jokics entire season but at this career not even close Curry was a nobody in rs. The fact that a center has more assists than a so called greatest pg is laughable.

It IS laughable.

Yes, people. Jokic is that tremendous. Curry is not on his level (anymore). Period.

I stopped paying attention to this thread after my initial post (basically saying pick your poison, they're 2 of the clear best players/leaders in the NBA), but please children. When will you learn? Curry just got done wiping the floor with the Nuggets coming directly off of a month long injury in just 30 mpg from the bench. Then he went on to do the same against elite D after elite D en route to his 4th title and a Finals MVP. Remember, this was the best player in the league during the last few months of 2021 and the first few months of this season before he had his shooting slump that took him out as the very clear front-runner for MVP up until late January. Yes, he is on that level lol.

[ty 4191]

Curry isnt even good anymore lol other than his Final performance which is standard error. How can you compared the greatest two way center with a guy heading for retirement? Maybe Curry had 1 better season in his peak than jokics entire season but at this career not even close Curry was a nobody in rs. The fact that a center has more assists than a so called greatest pg is laughable.

It IS laughable.

Yes, people. Jokic is that tremendous. Curry is not on his level (anymore). Period.

I stopped paying attention to this thread after my initial post (basically saying pick your poison, they're 2 of the clear best players/leaders in the NBA), but please children. When will you learn? Curry just got done wiping the floor with the Nuggets coming directly off of a month long injury in just 30 mpg from the bench. Then he went on to do the same against elite D after elite D en route to his 4th title and a Finals MVP. Remember, this was the best player in the league during the last few months of 2021 and the first few months of this season before he had his shooting slump that took him out as the very clear front-runner for MVP up until late January. Yes, he is on that level lol.

Please, children? Really, incredibly condescending of you.

This is pretty simple. Let me break it down for you....

Look at their numbers the last two seasons, including the playoffs:

Would you take the 28/6/5 guy or the 27/12/8 guy?

[BoatsNZones]

It IS laughable.

Yes, people. Jokic is that tremendous. Curry is not on his level (anymore). Period.

I stopped paying attention to this thread after my initial post (basically saying pick your poison, they're 2 of the clear best players/leaders in the NBA), but please children. When will you learn? Curry just got done wiping the floor with the Nuggets coming directly off of a month long injury in just 30 mpg from the bench. Then he went on to do the same against elite D after elite D en route to his 4th title and a Finals MVP. Remember, this was the best player in the league during the last few months of 2021 and the first few months of this season before he had his shooting slump that took him out as the very clear front-runner for MVP up until late January. Yes, he is on that level lol.

Please, children? Really, incredibly condescending of you.

This is pretty simple. Let me break it down for you....

Look at their numbers the last two seasons, including the playoffs:

Would you take the 28/6/5 guy or the 27/12/8 guy?

Speaking of infantile takes. Jordan was a 29/6/4 guy on his final MVP/championship runs as well (on far lower efficiency, but better D than Curry). Let's just say a case could be made for him over Jokic as well.

[The Rebel]

I was replying to the guy who said Jokics 27/14/8 made him better than curry. Then you have to consider things like how often OKC scored on putbacks on his misses, etc when their only option was him attacking the rim alot of times. The percentages can be misleading as far as impact. Turnovers are/have always been a problem for Russ, true. He did average 31/10/10 which most people seem to go out of their way to discredit, while Jokic is hailed as a GOAT on here.

Ive never seen a player accomplish so little (again he is 27 and has averaged over 20ppg 3 times) yet be propped up so much as Jokic. He certainly has time to build on that, but man if he loses any mobility around age 30 at his size/weight, it may not be as much time as people think. There are alot of studs coming up right now and always.

I think he had the same issues as steph, and by that I mean kind of a late bloomer so people are not sure how sustainable those gaudy stats may be.

The thing about Jokic is, he has led his team to the WCF the last time he played with murray... He has not had murray in the past two playoffs. The reason why people tout Jokic so highly is because they are able to look past the holes in his roster with the current injuries and judge him based on his skills alone. How far exactly do you expect Jokic to go without murray and MPJ? Do you expect him to get to the wcf without them?

KG was considered a superstar even though he never led his team past the first round until his eighth season. Sometimes, you have to look past the lack of perceived team accomplishment and see a player for what he really is. At least to me, its very evident Jokic is one of the 10 best players in the nba.

Did he really lead them to the WCF though? Murray was their leading scorer in those playoffs, and went for 40 plus 4 times, 50 twice! 3 of those came in a first round series that went 7 games. They lose that series if Murray doesnt play at an all time level. The 4th one came in game 7 of the second round.
Jokic was very solid in his own right, averaging 24ppg in those playoffs compared to Murrays 26. His high game was 34 and he averaged 22ppg in the WCF. Its fair to say Murray led them to the WCF as much as Jokic did.

And yes, Jokic is quite clearly one of the top players in the NBA today.

Sure Murray scored more, who was the one teams doubled though? Who was the one that did everything else on offense? That's right it was Jokic who still put up amazing stats.

[The Rebel]

Curry isnt even good anymore lol other than his Final performance which is standard error. How can you compared the greatest two way center with a guy heading for retirement? Maybe Curry had 1 better season in his peak than jokics entire season but at this career not even close Curry was a nobody in rs. The fact that a center has more assists than a so called greatest pg is laughable.

It IS laughable.

Yes, people. Jokic is that tremendous. Curry is not on his level (anymore). Period.

I stopped paying attention to this thread after my initial post (basically saying pick your poison, they're 2 of the clear best players/leaders in the NBA), but please children. When will you learn? Curry just got done wiping the floor with the Nuggets coming directly off of a month long injury in just 30 mpg from the bench. Then he went on to do the same against elite D after elite D en route to his 4th title and a Finals MVP. Remember, this was the best player in the league during the last few months of 2021 and the first few months of this season before he had his shooting slump that took him out as the very clear front-runner for MVP up until late January. Yes, he is on that level lol.

The children are the ones that insist a guy did something all by himself in a team game, you must be a Lebron fan.

[BoatsNZones]

It IS laughable.

Yes, people. Jokic is that tremendous. Curry is not on his level (anymore). Period.

I stopped paying attention to this thread after my initial post (basically saying pick your poison, they're 2 of the clear best players/leaders in the NBA), but please children. When will you learn? Curry just got done wiping the floor with the Nuggets coming directly off of a month long injury in just 30 mpg from the bench. Then he went on to do the same against elite D after elite D en route to his 4th title and a Finals MVP. Remember, this was the best player in the league during the last few months of 2021 and the first few months of this season before he had his shooting slump that took him out as the very clear front-runner for MVP up until late January. Yes, he is on that level lol.

The children are the ones that insist a guy did something all by himself in a team game, you must be a Lebron fan.

Clearly not insisting on that what so ever. But he came off the bench and absolutely torched the life out of any outside chance Denver may have thought they had with him coming fresh off the injury to the playoffs. I even specifically remember the poll on this site being 40/60 that the Nuggets would win the series before G1. Like anyone looking at it objectively, I obviously knew better than that due to their team dynamics (a more realistic representation would have been 10/90), but I'm used to seeing Curry and the Warriors underrated. I'm a Jokic fan as well. It's just absurd to pretend that he's on some other tier as a player than Curry. We just saw - again - what Curry does when he has a functioning supporting cast (even if they don't look very functional in the weeks he missed), and it's why he's in Top 10 All Time discussions despite having nowhere near the longevity of many in that realm.

Let's put it simply. If you have a take that thinks, "Oh! DRoseChi just made a great point concerning Curry!". You might want to reevaluate your position (and question where you went wrong to land in this predicament).

[CobraCommander]

Nikola Curry

Uh that’s BS
Its clearly Steph Jokic…

[Franco]

My goal is still to win championships. When Jokic shows he can do that I will change my mind. Until then I still pick Curry who has repeatedly proven that he can be the leader of a championship team.

Do you think Michael Jordan is better than jokic too?

Michael Jordan when he was winning championships, absolutely.

Shocking that 2004 Chauncey Billups would be better than the back-to-back MVP

[Big J]

It IS laughable.

Yes, people. Jokic is that tremendous. Curry is not on his level (anymore). Period.

I stopped paying attention to this thread after my initial post (basically saying pick your poison, they're 2 of the clear best players/leaders in the NBA), but please children. When will you learn? Curry just got done wiping the floor with the Nuggets coming directly off of a month long injury in just 30 mpg from the bench. Then he went on to do the same against elite D after elite D en route to his 4th title and a Finals MVP. Remember, this was the best player in the league during the last few months of 2021 and the first few months of this season before he had his shooting slump that took him out as the very clear front-runner for MVP up until late January. Yes, he is on that level lol.

Please, children? Really, incredibly condescending of you.

This is pretty simple. Let me break it down for you....

Look at their numbers the last two seasons, including the playoffs:

Would you take the 28/6/5 guy or the 27/12/8 guy?

I'd rather take the guy who puts up wins in the playoffs. Curry doesn't care about stats.

[The Rebel]

I stopped paying attention to this thread after my initial post (basically saying pick your poison, they're 2 of the clear best players/leaders in the NBA), but please children. When will you learn? Curry just got done wiping the floor with the Nuggets coming directly off of a month long injury in just 30 mpg from the bench. Then he went on to do the same against elite D after elite D en route to his 4th title and a Finals MVP. Remember, this was the best player in the league during the last few months of 2021 and the first few months of this season before he had his shooting slump that took him out as the very clear front-runner for MVP up until late January. Yes, he is on that level lol.

The children are the ones that insist a guy did something all by himself in a team game, you must be a Lebron fan.

Clearly not insisting that what so ever. But he came off the bench and absolutely torched the life out of any outside chance Denver may have thought they had with him coming fresh off the injury to the playoffs. I even specifically remember the poll on this site being 40/60 that the Nuggets would win the series before G1. I obviously knew better than that due to their team dynamics (a more realistic representation would have been 10/90), but I'm used to seeing Curry and the Warriors underrated. I'm a Jokic fan as well. It's just absurd to pretend that he's on some other tier as a player than Curry. We just saw - again - what Curry does when he has a functioning supporting cast (even if they don't look very functional in the weeks he missed), and it's why he's in Top 10 All Time discussions despite having nowhere near the longevity of many in that realm.

Let's put it simply. If you have a take that thinks, "Oh! DRoseChi just made a great point concerning Curry!". You might want to reevaluate your position (and question where you went wrong to land in this predicament).

Let's put this simply, Jokic's team lost 5 rotation players to injury this year including his 2 costars Curry lost 1 costar and missed the playoffs, so yes I would say that Jokic is clearly on another tier if he can carry a worse roster to a considerably better record without 1/3rd of his roster available. To say he isn't says more about you than anything.