Weltman has his starting lineup

[Skybox]

I think a few here are confusing what I (at least) consider sensible methodical improvement of the team with "skipping steps", "going all in", rushing the rebuild", etc.

We desperately need shooting to help our best prospects play well. The fact that we have a half dozen strong prospects doensn't have any bearing on that- we still need knockdown shooting. Trading for or signing a vet who has a proven record of making open 3's will make Paolo, Franz, Suggs, and Fultz develop their games. BPA has always been the correct high draft philosophy - After last week, it's no longer the way. If you stubbornly jam Suggs into the starting SG spot without any reason to expect he'll be a good shooter, they'll all look bad and they'll each look to take bad shots themselves and minimize the things they are valued for. I'm not supportive of signing a vet like Lavine or Brunson, who'll come in and take over the offense and the payroll...I'm for making a short-term investment, even in an overpaid guy, who'll serve a valuable purpose for us - while we're looking for his eventual younger replacement...and likely getting picks or prospects back for our troubles. An alternative is trading a redundant guy (like Cole or even Fultz, dependent on offers) for a similarly valued young guy who is a lights out 3&D prospect would be even better (Vassell, Moody, C. Johnson-add picks as needed). We would, in effect be skipping a year, but not skipping a step, we'd get the same kind of guy we'd likely be looking to draft or trade for in the near future anyway. In hindsight, I would loved to jump back in when we saw Griffin dropping. He's not a guy I'd bet on to develop much more, but he can stand there and hit shots all day. At 16 - he's a big win for ATL.

My favorite scenario is SUGGS CAN SUDDENLY SHOOT and/or RJ, COLE, whoever...but if you want to just stand pat and "develop" guys that don't complement each other...our biggest potential will look like crappy picks. I wanted Jabari, because he would improve everybody else with his floor spreading. I was wrong (I think). Jabari was the easy, lazy, plug him in pick...PB has star written all over him, but his potential will depend, to some extent, to the team around him. Just because we have "good" players doesn't make a good team...Paolo looks worthy of a bit of a remake of the team to me.

We NEED shooting now, not in 3 years, or Paolo and Franz and Fultz will look like bad choices...IMO, if we get a couple of shooters (Harris might be one, RJ or Suggs might shockingly be one, TRoss if he buys in? most likely a new face) Paolo is the likely ROY. IF we don't do anything, he looks like a bigger Cole Anthony of 21-22 season...forcing shots, hanging his head, frustrated that he's triple teamed because no other Magic player is scary from the perimeter.

Feel like we'll offer a one year deal and overpay Gary Harris to stay and be a good 3 pt shooter who can play some defense. He was showing more on D and his shot returned to form over the course of the season last year.

I'd be really happy with that and maybe another solid, but unspectacular one trick vet signing. If the shooters help the young guys do well, we improve but we're still getting a good pick...maybe we throw together a couple of picks (two frps in '23?) to move up and grab an exciting 3&D prospect higher in the draft (a Mikael Bridges/Devin Vassell type) for the longer haul...I would consider that a very "organic" growth...not the most exciting but sensible.

[Magicman125]

Feel like re-signing Bamba as a backup 5(some spot minutes at 4 too) to provide spacing and depth isn't a bad idea given our dearth of shooting on the roster at the moment, too.

[Skybox]

Feel like re-signing Bamba as a backup 5(some spot minutes at 4 too) to provide spacing and depth isn't a bad idea given our dearth of shooting on the roster at the moment, too.

I have to agree...I think we are required to make the qualifying offer tomorrow so we'll know soon.

I'm okay with letting him walk if a stupid bidding war emerges, but if FO is going to sit on their hands this offseason, they might as well protect the asset and see what comes next...can't ignore 38% from 3...he doesn't have to be a starter or even "not a disappointment" to be on the team - if the price is right.

If they simply relinquish their rights, they better have something bigger coming in FA/trade news

[Magic_Kingdom]

I think a few here are confusing what I (at least) consider sensible methodical improvement of the team with "skipping steps", "going all in", rushing the rebuild", etc.

We desperately need shooting to help our best prospects play well. The fact that we have a half dozen strong prospects doensn't have any bearing on that- we still need knockdown shooting. Trading for or signing a vet who has a proven record of making open 3's will make Paolo, Franz, Suggs, and Fultz develop their games. BPA has always been the correct high draft philosophy - After last week, it's no longer the way. If you stubbornly jam Suggs into the starting SG spot without any reason to expect he'll be a good shooter, they'll all look bad and they'll each look to take bad shots themselves and minimize the things they are valued for. I'm not supportive of signing a vet like Lavine or Brunson, who'll come in and take over the offense and the payroll...I'm for making a short-term investment, even in an overpaid guy, who'll serve a valuable purpose for us - while we're looking for his eventual younger replacement...and likely getting picks or prospects back for our troubles. An alternative is trading a redundant guy (like Cole or even Fultz, dependent on offers) for a similarly valued young guy who is a lights out 3&D prospect would be even better (Vassell, Moody, C. Johnson-add picks as needed). We would, in effect be skipping a year, but not skipping a step, we'd get the same kind of guy we'd likely be looking to draft or trade for in the near future anyway. In hindsight, I would loved to jump back in when we saw Griffin dropping. He's not a guy I'd bet on to develop much more, but he can stand there and hit shots all day. At 16 - he's a big win for ATL.

My favorite scenario is SUGGS CAN SUDDENLY SHOOT and/or RJ, COLE, whoever...but if you want to just stand pat and "develop" guys that don't complement each other...our biggest potential will look like crappy picks. I wanted Jabari, because he would improve everybody else with his floor spreading. I was wrong (I think). Jabari was the easy, lazy, plug him in pick...PB has star written all over him, but his potential will depend, to some extent, to the team around him. Just because we have "good" players doesn't make a good team...Paolo looks worthy of a bit of a remake of the team to me.

We NEED shooting now, not in 3 years, or Paolo and Franz and Fultz will look like bad choices...IMO, if we get a couple of shooters (Harris might be one, RJ or Suggs might shockingly be one, TRoss if he buys in? most likely a new face) Paolo is the likely ROY. IF we don't do anything, he looks like a bigger Cole Anthony of 21-22 season...forcing shots, hanging his head, frustrated that he's triple teamed because no other Magic player is scary from the perimeter.

This is a great post. 1000%.

Starting all your recent high lottery picks and acquisitions and calling it development doesn't make it so. As Skybox said, it isn't "skipping steps" to put the best young players in the best possible situation for growth. And it is simply not possible for *all* of these young players to develop at the same time. You have to add a vet or two to space the floor, teach the young guys, and ensure that the entire rotation isn't learning on the job at the same time.

This is where it seems like Weltman lacks creativity and vision. Any dope can tank and keep throwing high draft picks out on the court together. It takes some actual skill to build a team. I don't think Welt has the ability or, quite frankly, the desire to build a roster whose goal is winning rather than evaluating. Welt is like the chemist who just throws everything in the test tube all at once and waits to see what will happen, without consideration for which compounds react well with each other.

[fendilim]

I think a few here are confusing what I (at least) consider sensible methodical improvement of the team with "skipping steps", "going all in", rushing the rebuild", etc.

We desperately need shooting to help our best prospects play well. The fact that we have a half dozen strong prospects doensn't have any bearing on that- we still need knockdown shooting. Trading for or signing a vet who has a proven record of making open 3's will make Paolo, Franz, Suggs, and Fultz develop their games. BPA has always been the correct high draft philosophy - After last week, it's no longer the way. If you stubbornly jam Suggs into the starting SG spot without any reason to expect he'll be a good shooter, they'll all look bad and they'll each look to take bad shots themselves and minimize the things they are valued for. I'm not supportive of signing a vet like Lavine or Brunson, who'll come in and take over the offense and the payroll...I'm for making a short-term investment, even in an overpaid guy, who'll serve a valuable purpose for us - while we're looking for his eventual younger replacement...and likely getting picks or prospects back for our troubles. An alternative is trading a redundant guy (like Cole or even Fultz, dependent on offers) for a similarly valued young guy who is a lights out 3&D prospect would be even better (Vassell, Moody, C. Johnson-add picks as needed). We would, in effect be skipping a year, but not skipping a step, we'd get the same kind of guy we'd likely be looking to draft or trade for in the near future anyway. In hindsight, I would loved to jump back in when we saw Griffin dropping. He's not a guy I'd bet on to develop much more, but he can stand there and hit shots all day. At 16 - he's a big win for ATL.

My favorite scenario is SUGGS CAN SUDDENLY SHOOT and/or RJ, COLE, whoever...but if you want to just stand pat and "develop" guys that don't complement each other...our biggest potential will look like crappy picks. I wanted Jabari, because he would improve everybody else with his floor spreading. I was wrong (I think). Jabari was the easy, lazy, plug him in pick...PB has star written all over him, but his potential will depend, to some extent, to the team around him. Just because we have "good" players doesn't make a good team...Paolo looks worthy of a bit of a remake of the team to me.

We NEED shooting now, not in 3 years, or Paolo and Franz and Fultz will look like bad choices...IMO, if we get a couple of shooters (Harris might be one, RJ or Suggs might shockingly be one, TRoss if he buys in? most likely a new face) Paolo is the likely ROY. IF we don't do anything, he looks like a bigger Cole Anthony of 21-22 season...forcing shots, hanging his head, frustrated that he's triple teamed because no other Magic player is scary from the perimeter.

This is a great post. 1000%.

Starting all your recent high lottery picks and acquisitions and calling it development doesn't make it so. As Skybox said, it isn't "skipping steps" to put the best young players in the best possible situation for growth. And it is simply not possible for *all* of these young players to develop at the same time. You have to add a vet or two to space the floor, teach the young guys, and ensure that the entire rotation isn't learning on the job at the same time.

This is where it seems like Weltman lacks creativity and vision. Any dope can tank and keep throwing high draft picks out on the court together. It takes some actual skill to build a team. I don't think Welt has the ability or, quite frankly, the desire to build a roster whose goal is winning rather than evaluating. Welt is like the chemist who just throws everything in the test tube all at once and waits to see what will happen, without consideration for which compounds react well with each other.

This is true in a sense that we do indeed need shooting. In fact, all team does. Even the Warriors continuously try to get better shooters.

While that is certainly something we should look forward to improve on as a team, I think people are forgetting is that Paolo has the ability and shot making skill that will make defenses help defend against him which will lead to wide open shots, which will increase the chances of shots going in.

And I do believe that shooting is not something we are taking for granted, Moe is a stretch big, Etwaun, maybe Robin Lopez was the only one who isnt a respectable outside shooter. I do believe we are trying to get vets that can shoot, but we are not actively Seeking. And honestly, I get the point.

Shooters come at a premium these days, and for them to come to a re-building team, we will need to overpay them.

[jezzerinho]

I think a few here are confusing what I (at least) consider sensible methodical improvement of the team with "skipping steps", "going all in", rushing the rebuild", etc.

We desperately need shooting to help our best prospects play well. The fact that we have a half dozen strong prospects doensn't have any bearing on that- we still need knockdown shooting. Trading for or signing a vet who has a proven record of making open 3's will make Paolo, Franz, Suggs, and Fultz develop their games. BPA has always been the correct high draft philosophy - After last week, it's no longer the way. If you stubbornly jam Suggs into the starting SG spot without any reason to expect he'll be a good shooter, they'll all look bad and they'll each look to take bad shots themselves and minimize the things they are valued for. I'm not supportive of signing a vet like Lavine or Brunson, who'll come in and take over the offense and the payroll...I'm for making a short-term investment, even in an overpaid guy, who'll serve a valuable purpose for us - while we're looking for his eventual younger replacement...and likely getting picks or prospects back for our troubles. An alternative is trading a redundant guy (like Cole or even Fultz, dependent on offers) for a similarly valued young guy who is a lights out 3&D prospect would be even better (Vassell, Moody, C. Johnson-add picks as needed). We would, in effect be skipping a year, but not skipping a step, we'd get the same kind of guy we'd likely be looking to draft or trade for in the near future anyway. In hindsight, I would loved to jump back in when we saw Griffin dropping. He's not a guy I'd bet on to develop much more, but he can stand there and hit shots all day. At 16 - he's a big win for ATL.

My favorite scenario is SUGGS CAN SUDDENLY SHOOT and/or RJ, COLE, whoever...but if you want to just stand pat and "develop" guys that don't complement each other...our biggest potential will look like crappy picks. I wanted Jabari, because he would improve everybody else with his floor spreading. I was wrong (I think). Jabari was the easy, lazy, plug him in pick...PB has star written all over him, but his potential will depend, to some extent, to the team around him. Just because we have "good" players doesn't make a good team...Paolo looks worthy of a bit of a remake of the team to me.

We NEED shooting now, not in 3 years, or Paolo and Franz and Fultz will look like bad choices...IMO, if we get a couple of shooters (Harris might be one, RJ or Suggs might shockingly be one, TRoss if he buys in? most likely a new face) Paolo is the likely ROY. IF we don't do anything, he looks like a bigger Cole Anthony of 21-22 season...forcing shots, hanging his head, frustrated that he's triple teamed because no other Magic player is scary from the perimeter.

This is a great post. 1000%.

Starting all your recent high lottery picks and acquisitions and calling it development doesn't make it so. As Skybox said, it isn't "skipping steps" to put the best young players in the best possible situation for growth. And it is simply not possible for *all* of these young players to develop at the same time. You have to add a vet or two to space the floor, teach the young guys, and ensure that the entire rotation isn't learning on the job at the same time.

This is where it seems like Weltman lacks creativity and vision. Any dope can tank and keep throwing high draft picks out on the court together. It takes some actual skill to build a team. I don't think Welt has the ability or, quite frankly, the desire to build a roster whose goal is winning rather than evaluating. Welt is like the chemist who just throws everything in the test tube all at once and waits to see what will happen, without consideration for which compounds react well with each other.

All true, but adding shooting to the roster needs to come without impinging on two fundamentals:
1) we need to build the value of the assets we don't want to keep and that happens with playing time. Fultz, Suggs, Hampton, JI, Bol all need court time to reverse their declining value.
2) great players become available all the time and you don't want to miss out on one because you used your cap on a good one.

Do i trust the FO to get it right? No, i don't.

I also think there are a bunch of guys overpaid on cap-clearing teams who Orlando could target AND pick up an asset.

[Skybox]

I think a few here are confusing what I (at least) consider sensible methodical improvement of the team with "skipping steps", "going all in", rushing the rebuild", etc.

We desperately need shooting to help our best prospects play well. The fact that we have a half dozen strong prospects doensn't have any bearing on that- we still need knockdown shooting. Trading for or signing a vet who has a proven record of making open 3's will make Paolo, Franz, Suggs, and Fultz develop their games. BPA has always been the correct high draft philosophy - After last week, it's no longer the way. If you stubbornly jam Suggs into the starting SG spot without any reason to expect he'll be a good shooter, they'll all look bad and they'll each look to take bad shots themselves and minimize the things they are valued for. I'm not supportive of signing a vet like Lavine or Brunson, who'll come in and take over the offense and the payroll...I'm for making a short-term investment, even in an overpaid guy, who'll serve a valuable purpose for us - while we're looking for his eventual younger replacement...and likely getting picks or prospects back for our troubles. An alternative is trading a redundant guy (like Cole or even Fultz, dependent on offers) for a similarly valued young guy who is a lights out 3&D prospect would be even better (Vassell, Moody, C. Johnson-add picks as needed). We would, in effect be skipping a year, but not skipping a step, we'd get the same kind of guy we'd likely be looking to draft or trade for in the near future anyway. In hindsight, I would loved to jump back in when we saw Griffin dropping. He's not a guy I'd bet on to develop much more, but he can stand there and hit shots all day. At 16 - he's a big win for ATL.

My favorite scenario is SUGGS CAN SUDDENLY SHOOT and/or RJ, COLE, whoever...but if you want to just stand pat and "develop" guys that don't complement each other...our biggest potential will look like crappy picks. I wanted Jabari, because he would improve everybody else with his floor spreading. I was wrong (I think). Jabari was the easy, lazy, plug him in pick...PB has star written all over him, but his potential will depend, to some extent, to the team around him. Just because we have "good" players doesn't make a good team...Paolo looks worthy of a bit of a remake of the team to me.

We NEED shooting now, not in 3 years, or Paolo and Franz and Fultz will look like bad choices...IMO, if we get a couple of shooters (Harris might be one, RJ or Suggs might shockingly be one, TRoss if he buys in? most likely a new face) Paolo is the likely ROY. IF we don't do anything, he looks like a bigger Cole Anthony of 21-22 season...forcing shots, hanging his head, frustrated that he's triple teamed because no other Magic player is scary from the perimeter.

This is a great post. 1000%.

Starting all your recent high lottery picks and acquisitions and calling it development doesn't make it so. As Skybox said, it isn't "skipping steps" to put the best young players in the best possible situation for growth. And it is simply not possible for *all* of these young players to develop at the same time. You have to add a vet or two to space the floor, teach the young guys, and ensure that the entire rotation isn't learning on the job at the same time.

This is where it seems like Weltman lacks creativity and vision. Any dope can tank and keep throwing high draft picks out on the court together. It takes some actual skill to build a team. I don't think Welt has the ability or, quite frankly, the desire to build a roster whose goal is winning rather than evaluating. Welt is like the chemist who just throws everything in the test tube all at once and waits to see what will happen, without consideration for which compounds react well with each other.

All true, but adding shooting to the roster needs to come without impinging on two fundamentals:
1) we need to build the value of the assets we don't want to keep and that happens with playing time. Fultz, Suggs, Hampton, JI, Bol all need court time to reverse their declining value.
2) great players become available all the time and you don't want to miss out on one because you used your cap on a good one.

Do i trust the FO to get it right? No, i don't.

I also think there are a bunch of guys overpaid on cap-clearing teams who Orlando could target AND pick up an asset.

Your last sentence, IMO, represents easy pickings...those teams will be thrilled to unload those guys and pay us to do it.

A slight twist to that is preemptively getting overpaid shooters (just before they're overpaid). The best examples that I'm thinking of are Cam Johnson (PHO can't pay EVERYBODY and they'd be nuts to let their recent #1 go for nothing...next year, Cam gets paid)-they can trade him now for a player who is cost-controlled and not have to go through another summer of very public questioning of their willingness to support a winning franchise. ATL is another-they extended Huerter for 4 years and then found AJ Griffin at 16 (at the same time)...by all accounts, everyone but Trae is on the table...are these two very young, long, proven 3pt shooters approaching "overpaid"? Maybe, they also may have more to their games than we've seen.

I can't imagine what mythical player we're targeting in FA NEXT summer...but will he be a better fit and at a lower cost than Cam Johnson or Huerter now (or even Vassell from SAS-who may also be going OKC rebuild)? I doubt it...In Johnson's case, we'd have a year to try it out and then have matching rights. This is my favorite scenario...we'd be stacked with young, complementary players who will compound each others' development rather than take turns forcing shots.

[VFX]

This is a great post. 1000%.

Starting all your recent high lottery picks and acquisitions and calling it development doesn't make it so. As Skybox said, it isn't "skipping steps" to put the best young players in the best possible situation for growth. And it is simply not possible for *all* of these young players to develop at the same time. You have to add a vet or two to space the floor, teach the young guys, and ensure that the entire rotation isn't learning on the job at the same time.

This is where it seems like Weltman lacks creativity and vision. Any dope can tank and keep throwing high draft picks out on the court together. It takes some actual skill to build a team. I don't think Welt has the ability or, quite frankly, the desire to build a roster whose goal is winning rather than evaluating. Welt is like the chemist who just throws everything in the test tube all at once and waits to see what will happen, without consideration for which compounds react well with each other.

All true, but adding shooting to the roster needs to come without impinging on two fundamentals:
1) we need to build the value of the assets we don't want to keep and that happens with playing time. Fultz, Suggs, Hampton, JI, Bol all need court time to reverse their declining value.
2) great players become available all the time and you don't want to miss out on one because you used your cap on a good one.

Do i trust the FO to get it right? No, i don't.

I also think there are a bunch of guys overpaid on cap-clearing teams who Orlando could target AND pick up an asset.

Your last sentence, IMO, represents easy pickings...those teams will be thrilled to unload those guys and pay us to do it.

A slight twist to that is preemptively getting overpaid shooters (just before they're overpaid). The best examples that I'm thinking of are Cam Johnson (PHO can't pay EVERYBODY and they'd be nuts to let their recent #1 go for nothing...next year, Cam gets paid)-they can trade him now for a player who is cost-controlled and not have to go through another summer of very public questioning of their willingness to support a winning franchise. ATL is another-they extended Huerter for 4 years and then found AJ Griffin at 16 (at the same time)...by all accounts, everyone but Trae is on the table...are these two very young, long, proven 3pt shooters approaching "overpaid"? Maybe, they also may have more to their games than we've seen.

I can't imagine what mythical player we're targeting in FA NEXT summer...but will he be a better fit and at a lower cost than Cam Johnson or Huerter now (or even Vassell from SAS-who may also be going OKC rebuild)? I doubt it...In Johnson's case, we'd have a year to try it out and then have matching rights. This is my favorite scenario...we'd be stacked with young, complementary players who will compound each others' development rather than take turns forcing shots.

This hypothetical FA doesn’t exist. We can easily tell by looking at the list of 30+ year old guys, washed vets, and scrubs.

Sure, a team can offload someone for an asset, but if the player is any good (Huerter, Vassell, etc.) Orlando is giving something back of value. Teams don’t invest all that time and their draft pick usually to just offload a bad contract they can sit on.

I keep harping on it now, but Fultz has got to go. I don’t really understand what the FO’s intention for keeping him is other than boosting his trade value for half a season at this point. Suggs can defend 3 positions and will continue to improve on offense. He needs to be on the court. Fultz can’t do that and ALSO can’t stretch the floor. Who pays a 1-level scoring mid-range pg that can’t defend $16m/3? Absolute Insanity.

If Orlando is going to add a starting SG, he’s the guy to go. If teams require more value then so be it. I just don’t see any other upside to play a mismatched roster that will obviously struggle due to that missing element. That doesn’t make their development easier. Hopefully they pull the trigger by the trade deadline.

[LDNMagic90]

I think a few here are confusing what I (at least) consider sensible methodical improvement of the team with "skipping steps", "going all in", rushing the rebuild", etc.

We desperately need shooting to help our best prospects play well. The fact that we have a half dozen strong prospects doensn't have any bearing on that- we still need knockdown shooting. Trading for or signing a vet who has a proven record of making open 3's will make Paolo, Franz, Suggs, and Fultz develop their games. BPA has always been the correct high draft philosophy - After last week, it's no longer the way. If you stubbornly jam Suggs into the starting SG spot without any reason to expect he'll be a good shooter, they'll all look bad and they'll each look to take bad shots themselves and minimize the things they are valued for. I'm not supportive of signing a vet like Lavine or Brunson, who'll come in and take over the offense and the payroll...I'm for making a short-term investment, even in an overpaid guy, who'll serve a valuable purpose for us - while we're looking for his eventual younger replacement...and likely getting picks or prospects back for our troubles. An alternative is trading a redundant guy (like Cole or even Fultz, dependent on offers) for a similarly valued young guy who is a lights out 3&D prospect would be even better (Vassell, Moody, C. Johnson-add picks as needed). We would, in effect be skipping a year, but not skipping a step, we'd get the same kind of guy we'd likely be looking to draft or trade for in the near future anyway. In hindsight, I would loved to jump back in when we saw Griffin dropping. He's not a guy I'd bet on to develop much more, but he can stand there and hit shots all day. At 16 - he's a big win for ATL.

My favorite scenario is SUGGS CAN SUDDENLY SHOOT and/or RJ, COLE, whoever...but if you want to just stand pat and "develop" guys that don't complement each other...our biggest potential will look like crappy picks. I wanted Jabari, because he would improve everybody else with his floor spreading. I was wrong (I think). Jabari was the easy, lazy, plug him in pick...PB has star written all over him, but his potential will depend, to some extent, to the team around him. Just because we have "good" players doesn't make a good team...Paolo looks worthy of a bit of a remake of the team to me.

We NEED shooting now, not in 3 years, or Paolo and Franz and Fultz will look like bad choices...IMO, if we get a couple of shooters (Harris might be one, RJ or Suggs might shockingly be one, TRoss if he buys in? most likely a new face) Paolo is the likely ROY. IF we don't do anything, he looks like a bigger Cole Anthony of 21-22 season...forcing shots, hanging his head, frustrated that he's triple teamed because no other Magic player is scary from the perimeter.

All true, the reason why I've asked and keep on asking that question on what people would do is because all i see is some people moaning and almost clinging on to all negatives all the time. But when I ask for a solution its cricketts, so I appreciate your post a lot for at least thinking of solutions to our problems.

For me I know the flaws of the team and I welcome any trade to add the shooting we desperately need, however I also don't want us to go too far and it impacting this rebuild. I don't think any of us can take another 10 years of trying to build a roster lol, the FO job right now for this season is to add some shooting from somewhere while seeing what pieces can stay. So for me I'm partially fine with them 'evaulating' this coming season, but the FO SHOULD be proactive in finding shooting for this team. I know they may want to wait for the perfect situation, but we should be a bit more aggressive with our approach.

I saw all of this about our FO as more of an assumption based on what I've seen over the years, I would imagine them at least working the phones to see whats out there (I hope so at least)

Banchero potentially could help and I would expect jumps in percentages from a few players.

[Skybox]

All true, but adding shooting to the roster needs to come without impinging on two fundamentals:
1) we need to build the value of the assets we don't want to keep and that happens with playing time. Fultz, Suggs, Hampton, JI, Bol all need court time to reverse their declining value.
2) great players become available all the time and you don't want to miss out on one because you used your cap on a good one.

Do i trust the FO to get it right? No, i don't.

I also think there are a bunch of guys overpaid on cap-clearing teams who Orlando could target AND pick up an asset.

Your last sentence, IMO, represents easy pickings...those teams will be thrilled to unload those guys and pay us to do it.

A slight twist to that is preemptively getting overpaid shooters (just before they're overpaid). The best examples that I'm thinking of are Cam Johnson (PHO can't pay EVERYBODY and they'd be nuts to let their recent #1 go for nothing...next year, Cam gets paid)-they can trade him now for a player who is cost-controlled and not have to go through another summer of very public questioning of their willingness to support a winning franchise. ATL is another-they extended Huerter for 4 years and then found AJ Griffin at 16 (at the same time)...by all accounts, everyone but Trae is on the table...are these two very young, long, proven 3pt shooters approaching "overpaid"? Maybe, they also may have more to their games than we've seen.

I can't imagine what mythical player we're targeting in FA NEXT summer...but will he be a better fit and at a lower cost than Cam Johnson or Huerter now (or even Vassell from SAS-who may also be going OKC rebuild)? I doubt it...In Johnson's case, we'd have a year to try it out and then have matching rights. This is my favorite scenario...we'd be stacked with young, complementary players who will compound each others' development rather than take turns forcing shots.

This hypothetical FA doesn’t exist. We can easily tell by looking at the list of 30+ year old guys, washed vets, and scrubs.

Sure, a team can offload someone for an asset, but if the player is any good (Huerter, Vassell, etc.) Orlando is giving something back of value. Teams don’t invest all that time and their draft pick usually to just offload a bad contract they can sit on.

I keep harping on it now, but Fultz has got to go. I don’t really understand what the FO’s intention for keeping him is other than boosting his trade value for half a season at this point. Suggs can defend 3 positions and will continue to improve on offense. He needs to be on the court. Fultz can’t do that and ALSO can’t stretch the floor. Who pays a 1-level scoring mid-range pg that can’t defend $16m/3? Absolute Insanity.

If Orlando is going to add a starting SG, he’s the guy to go. If teams require more value then so be it. I just don’t see any other upside to play a mismatched roster that will obviously struggle due to that missing element. That doesn’t make their development easier. Hopefully they pull the trigger by the trade deadline.

I agree that Fultz is, likely, the odd man out...just not sure what the return would be. I don't dislike Fultz - but I don't know how much better he is in 2 years (I see much more room for Suggs and Cole). Fultz' deal is very movable, due to the minimal guarantee in the final year. I think Fultz is presently our best PG, but all 3 have merits. I'd just as soon call Suggs PG and not let him dribble- give it to Franz and let Suggs be Marcus Smart until he develops more.

[Black and Blue]

All true, but adding shooting to the roster needs to come without impinging on two fundamentals:
1) we need to build the value of the assets we don't want to keep and that happens with playing time. Fultz, Suggs, Hampton, JI, Bol all need court time to reverse their declining value.
2) great players become available all the time and you don't want to miss out on one because you used your cap on a good one.

Do i trust the FO to get it right? No, i don't.

I also think there are a bunch of guys overpaid on cap-clearing teams who Orlando could target AND pick up an asset.

Your last sentence, IMO, represents easy pickings...those teams will be thrilled to unload those guys and pay us to do it.

A slight twist to that is preemptively getting overpaid shooters (just before they're overpaid). The best examples that I'm thinking of are Cam Johnson (PHO can't pay EVERYBODY and they'd be nuts to let their recent #1 go for nothing...next year, Cam gets paid)-they can trade him now for a player who is cost-controlled and not have to go through another summer of very public questioning of their willingness to support a winning franchise. ATL is another-they extended Huerter for 4 years and then found AJ Griffin at 16 (at the same time)...by all accounts, everyone but Trae is on the table...are these two very young, long, proven 3pt shooters approaching "overpaid"? Maybe, they also may have more to their games than we've seen.

I can't imagine what mythical player we're targeting in FA NEXT summer...but will he be a better fit and at a lower cost than Cam Johnson or Huerter now (or even Vassell from SAS-who may also be going OKC rebuild)? I doubt it...In Johnson's case, we'd have a year to try it out and then have matching rights. This is my favorite scenario...we'd be stacked with young, complementary players who will compound each others' development rather than take turns forcing shots.

This hypothetical FA doesn’t exist. We can easily tell by looking at the list of 30+ year old guys, washed vets, and scrubs.

Sure, a team can offload someone for an asset, but if the player is any good (Huerter, Vassell, etc.) Orlando is giving something back of value. Teams don’t invest all that time and their draft pick usually to just offload a bad contract they can sit on.

I keep harping on it now, but Fultz has got to go. I don’t really understand what the FO’s intention for keeping him is other than boosting his trade value for half a season at this point. Suggs can defend 3 positions and will continue to improve on offense. He needs to be on the court. Fultz can’t do that and ALSO can’t stretch the floor. Who pays a 1-level scoring mid-range pg that can’t defend $16m/3? Absolute Insanity.

If Orlando is going to add a starting SG, he’s the guy to go. If teams require more value then so be it. I just don’t see any other upside to play a mismatched roster that will obviously struggle due to that missing element. That doesn’t make their development easier. Hopefully they pull the trigger by the trade deadline.

You very well may be right about them looking to trade Fultz by the deadline. My answer to your question of the reason for keeping him is his current value to this team (as far as helping others succeed) is likely is more than his current value on the trade market. I think he may be dealt IF 1) Suggs squarely establishes himself, 2) Fultz rehabs his image beyond the injuries/bust label enough to boost his value, and/or 3) another team comes with a great offer. But right now the team looked the best it looked last year with him manning the ship and we have to remember that this front office needs to avoid the "these guys weren't put in a spot to succeed" excuse when evaluating the rest of their young core.

My opinion? I think with Franz, Banchero and WCJ firmly entrenched as the core, the trio of Fultz/Suggs/Cole are essentially competing for two positions this year...point guard and backup point guard. Sure, they will trot out the super optimistic lineup of Fultz and Suggs as the starting PG and SG and HOPE that works...but if it doesn't (and barring Suggs turning into an amazing shooter from historically bad, it's going to take some real creativity to make it work), then I'd look for one to be dealt during this upcoming season's trade deadline. And you are right, of those three Fultz is currently the most likely person, followed closely by Cole.

Beyond that, if Suggs doesn't seize the job I think the plan is VERY much to see the SG position as a band aid for this season and hope the rest of the team develops in a big way. Then get a SG with this year's draft pick or use that free cap space to acquire a starting SG in a trade. I'm curious to see if Weltman/Hammond prioritize young, high upside SGs to take a flier on trying to strike gold in the offseason. As maddening as his play can be at times, Cam Reddish does make a ton of sense if the Knicks want to dump him to clear space.

[Magicman125]

No one on the roster aside from Fultz can actually playmake for others consistently. He plays good D, has shown the ability to attack the basket and play with a good mid range game while continuing to push the pace.

I would rather move on from Cole and/or Hampton than Fultz if we're clearing up the bit of a logjam we have in the back court. Just have to hope Suggs can learn how to shoot, which is still entirely possible based off of his college stroke, his shooting form, and his FT%.

[Skybox]

Agree with posters above...

With Banchero and Franz so good with the ball and backcourt shooting so awful, its my opinion that Fultz, Suggs, and Cole will basically be having a shoot-off to determine who gets to stay. Suggs has the highest upside due to his recent draft status and elite defensive upside, Fultz has the biggest, shortest contract - but Fultz also is, at present, the best with the ball and at the rim...if he can improve his shooting this year (we've been saying it for a long time, but this is, IMO, final try), I think he's out-sadly as somebody's cap help despite his age and #1 overall status...I'd feel better about Fultz if we had drafted Jabari. Maybe there's a team out there built opposite of us (tons of shooting, limited floor general-MIN?) who would value him more. Cole is 3rd in line but maybe jumps ahead by learning how to play off ball and move around waiting for that open shot. He was an efficiency mess last year, but who was there to bail him out or create for him, other than Franz?

Good to have options. May the best guards win.

[pepe1991]

And it turned out i was right.
He did namedropped starting 5 knowing he won't even bother with free agency. He resigned Harris and Bamba and went on early vacation . Orlando had $28M of free cap space , and were only team with Spurs and Detroit who had it. How we leveradged it? We didn't. We just filled $24M with injury prone SG and third string C. Both players are projected bench players. Maybe Harris starts, but i highly doubt, since Weltman already namedropped "starting 5", 5 months before season started.

He will never do anything that can put his job in joperty. Easiest way to avoid being fired is run back worst roster in nba, win 2,3,5,6 or 7 games more than last year and call it a progress and "step in right direction".

[pepe1991]

The management did the right thing. Resigning our own guys, both of our best 3point shooters, to good deals...I take that! Even if it looks boring to some. Both Harris and Bamba will benefit playing alongside Banchero, an improved Franz and healthy Fultz. Like Hammond said, why disrupt the continuity and development by bringing unknown factors into a young team. Everyone, even opponents and media people, talk about the great magic culture and familiar environment. Harris and Bamba were part of that, so why change it at this point of the rebuild?

PG - Fultz/Anthony/Cannady
SG - Suggs/Harris/Hampton
SF - Franz/Ross/Houstan
PF- Banchero/Isaac/Okeke
C - Wendell/Bamba/MoW

Looks great to me! Surely a trade of TRoss and one of RJ/Okeke for another Vet is possible. But not necessary. I see a 10 game improvement coming!

And it turned out i was right.
He did namedropped starting 5 knowing he won't even bother with free agency. He resigned Harris and Bamba and went on early vacation . Orlando had $28M of free cap space , and were only team with Spurs and Detroit who had it. How we leveradged it? We didn't. We just filled $24M with injury prone SG and third string C. Both players are projected bench players. Maybe Harris starts, but i highly doubt, since Weltman already namedropped "starting 5", 5 months before season started.

He will never do anything that can put his job in joperty. Easiest way to avoid being fired is run back worst roster in nba, win 2,3,5,6 or 7 games more than last year and call it a progress and "step in right direction".

Then please share your ideas and let us know what you would have done this offseason?

This was very, very ,very rare occasion where Magic had leveradge in free agency over other teams, since they are not desired destionation for FA.
They had almost $30M in cap space in year where only 2-4 teams had salary.

Instad, they are runnig 22-60 team back.
They also capped out now, so 2022 free agency is more or less gone, they also crippled their salary for 2023 free agency.

Like Hammond said, why disrupt the continuity and development by bringing unknown factors into a young team.

This has to be joke ,right? You are 22-60 team.. You are once again favorite for top 3 worst record in nba. What's there to disrupt? Culture of sucking and losing and playing for nothing but lottery?

We are raising another generation of Harris, Dipo, Vuc, Evan, Harris. Pereniall losing team, where sucking and losing is part of culture, who will step each other toes for contracts and selfish reasons.

[G-SUS86]

.....

[msmoore66]

Some great discussion from Skybox and co in here. Enjoyed reading thanks.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[zaymon]

I believe our frontcourt is set. Wagner/Banchero/Carter is consisting of my every favourite available prospect in draft since 2018 so its kind of personal for me.
Its hard to believe backcourt is set tough.
Suggs coming from injury. Both Suggs and Fultz offense doesnt compliment each other or our frontcourt. It creates a lot of pressure on Suggs, and his last year struggles were in large part mental.
Only reason i can think of is defense but Harris is better than Fultz defensively and he can shoot. Playmaking is cool but we have it already with our frontcourt and reserves also need some boost especially with Bamba, Isaac and Cole.
Something is off with that hard to pin point right now. Maybe some chemistry reasons.

[yoyojw17]

This was very, very ,very rare occasion where Magic had leveradge in free agency over other teams, since they are not desired destionation for FA.
They had almost $30M in cap space in year where only 2-4 teams had salary.

Instad, they are runnig 22-60 team back.
They also capped out now, so 2022 free agency is more or less gone, they also crippled their salary for 2023 free agency.


This has to be joke ,right? You are 22-60 team.. You are once again favorite for top 3 worst record in nba. What's there to disrupt? Culture of sucking and losing and playing for nothing but lottery?

We are raising another generation of Harris, Dipo, Vuc, Evan, Harris. Pereniall losing team, where sucking and losing is part of culture, who will step each other toes for contracts and selfish reasons.

Come one Pepe. We literally and outwardly tanked last season. 2 of the players that they figured to be integral parts of the team were held out for majority of to all of the season. G-league players were starting or playing significant minutes on a relatively consistent basis at points.... you players were experimented with to see their limits.... vets were held out for having papercuts...lol

And it's a young team.... where players are growing individually in the background. All of them have been shown working hards already. The desire to succeed has been obvious..... and there is no way that anyone can sit there and think that IF this team is healthy and players continue to grow... that we cannot surpass the 22-60 that somehow you believe is somehow written in pen.

This year....they bring identical team and Banchero back. How is that any different?

You really think broken, 30 months away from last basketball game Isaac, and sub 52% TS Fultz will be difference makers in terms of losing in nba? It's a given that rookie is negative value on court in 99% cases.

At best, we are looking at 32 wins team. More realistic- 28 wins team.

Yes! I can have the hope that he will come back and make a difference. Thats what he's working to come back and do.... Right? Everything does not have to be black and white. I shouldn't think he's going to come back and become what I might have projected or hoped he would become ... And I don't think that he would deserve to be considered a turnstyle either. The truth lies somewhere in between. And fultz.... Why should I not give him the benefit of the doubt... When injury has robbed him of some of his initial development year. If his shoulder is now fine... And we've seen him play with the knee recovery... Let's see how he does.... When he's not just playing with aforementioned gleagie players. Cole, Wendell, chuma, RJ,Franz, suggs, bamba are all young players that the game is still slowing down for. Let them grow and see what they become instead of slapping labels of completion on them.

Gary Harris was brought back to fill his role as the veteran 2 way player... And he barely played last year.

And as I said... Let's not act like we weren't starting gleaguer thought the season. Our depth.... If healthy would be 2 man deep at every position. This is a transitioning season... Where they will be looking at growth and projecting where these guys are going and how they can contribute to the system they are trying to develop. Then at some point they consolidate and make decisions.

Otherwise we've got an exciting young team in the making.... Whether or not you choose to believe it or not.