Blazers acquire Jerami Grant for MIL 25 1st.

[Norm2953]

Indeed its been several days and there has been no announcement from the Blazers. Whatever
else that might be happening doesn't seem to involve the 36th pick for Procida seems to be
a Piston.

Something seems to be going on but what it is unclear

[Norm2953]

I went over to the Pistons board and they seem as curious about this as well. Something seems to be
going on but how fun it would be if Grant ended up as part of the deal for Durant.

[Dame Lizard]

Given Detroit have traded the Milwaukee 1st for Duren, they sure aren't walking away from the deal.

Consider me intrigued if the deal is expanding.

[JasonStern]

I would not be upset if this was flexed into something else. But for some reason I feel like this is a done deal.

Grant to POR probably is. But there really isn't much I can see (at this time) Portland doing to extend the trade. I suspect Detroit might be trying to shop the TPE for additional value. Bad contract plus a pick/player and still have max cap room to target someone like Ayton in free agency.

[B0naf1d3]

I went over to the Pistons board and they seem as curious about this as well. Something seems to be
going on but how fun it would be if Grant ended up as part of the deal for Durant.

I'm trying to investigate this right now. There seems to be a lot of opportunity available within the teams that are already in the framework of the trade. Big swings for the Blazers include Randle, and Hayward. Dort, Reddish, Williams, and Washington are all good cheap options. A lot of veteran names in there that could help a winning team. Odds are that this trade is the best tool to add rotation players. Free agency is a gamble and getting one of Anderson/Batum/Porter/Warren will be competitive.

OKC trades: 3 1sts
OKC gets: Dieng

Names to watch: Dort/Favors/Green/Williams

Knicks trade: Dieng + Kemba + 1st + 2nds
Knicks get: 3 1sts

Names to watch: Randle/Fournier/Noel/Burks/Reddish

Hornets trade: Duren
Hornets get: 1st + 2nds

Names to watch: Hayward/Plumlee/Oubre/Washington

Pistons trade: 1st
Pistons get: Kemba, Duren

Names to watch: Olynyk/Joseph/Dedmon

Blazers trade: 1st + 2nds + TPE (reportedly)
Blazers get: Grant

Names to watch: Bledsoe/Johnson/Little/Winslow/Louzada/Brown

[Wizenheimer]

I was gone camping in the Steens for 10 days so I missed all the fireworks; probably a good thing

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last first, about the deal not being finalized yet: I'm pretty sure the main part of the trade is done --> Grant into the TPE for the Milwaukee 1st plus 2nd round scraps. I think both teams are waiting to see if some other components of potential trades can be folded into the Grant trade to benefit either team.

I suppose it's possible that there will be an extend & trade with Grant, but I have a hard time seeing why the hell the Blazers would hard-cap themselves with an E&T. It makes no sense at all

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I said in February that it was a mistake to try and isolate the deadline deals apart from a process.

* At first glance, the Clippers trade looked bad. But when looked at a little closer, maybe it wasn't nearly as bad as it seemed. Blazers got under the tax line while gaining nearly 65M in future salary savings. RoCo was not going to re-sign in Portland and he wasn't going to bring back a 1st in trade. Powell's contract coupled with his unsuitability as a SF and massively overrated defense was not a net plus. Not close. Essentially, the trade was Powell for Winslow + Johnson + 2nd + 6.6M TPE + 70M in cap-relief. That's not really the horrible trade that people claimed it was. Yeah, you have to factor RoCo, but mostly, he was sunk olshey-cost

* the Pels trade was never a bad as many complained. It had been obvious for years that Dame/CJ was a bust as a pairing and needed to be abandoned. Blazers finally got out of CJ's contract and moved ahead. As many have noted, the trade has at the core became CJ + Always-Injured-Nance for Hart + Grant. That's a more than acceptable trade

***************************************************************

one of my biggest complaints about Olshey was that his off-seasons and deadline deals were always fence-straddling moves. And not in good ways because he was really apt to mortgage the future for the straddle. That's why the Blazers gave up FOUR 1st round picks (+ Will Barton) for Arron Afflalo, RoCo, and Nance.....geeeeezuz that's painful

well, in a way it looks like Cronin is straddling a fence too, so far. But it might be a good fence to straddle. I'm not high on Grant and I don't know much about Sharpe (and some of it is uh-oh!), but at least I can see the virtue of getting the 3rd-option value of Grant buying into a Dame led team while rolling the dice on the upside of Sharpe. I'm not real optimistic about the overall direction, but if Grant plays his best in Portland and Sharpe is the real deal the Blazers may be onto something

[JasonStern]

* At first glance, the Clippers trade looked bad. But when looked at a little closer, maybe it wasn't nearly as bad as it seemed. Blazers got under the tax line while gaining nearly 65M in future salary savings. RoCo was not going to re-sign in Portland and he wasn't going to bring back a 1st in trade. Powell's contract coupled with his unsuitability as a SF and massively overrated defense was not a net plus. Not close. Essentially, the trade was Powell for Winslow + Johnson + 2nd + 6.6M TPE + 70M in cap-relief. That's not really the horrible trade that people claimed it was. Yeah, you have to factor RoCo, but mostly, he was sunk olshey-cost

No. It's bad. And if you want to play the "don't look at one move in isolation", the Blazers traded Gary Trent Jr. - a guy who can play SF - for Powell for Winslow+Johnson+2nd.

And then you look at Powell's advanced metrics:
PER: 27.3 (LAC), 15.3 (POR)
WS/48: .272 (LAC), .076 (POR)
BPM: 7.7 (LAC), -1.0 (POR)
TS%: .682 (LAC), .593 (POR)

And Covington's:
PER: 19.4 (LAC), 10.0 (POR)
WS/48: .200 (LAC), .037 (POR)
BPM: 4.1 (LAC), -1.3 (POR)
TS%: .677 (LAC), .519 (POR)

...and it starts becoming pretty apparent that the Blazers, be it due to roster construction or coaching, weren't using either player effectively.

[DaVoiceMaster]

Are the Blazers getting involved in the Detroit/New York trade? Why hasn't the Grsnt trade been finalized, unless there is more to it?

[Norm2953]

There is something going on, perhaps on the Knicks end with tomorrow's offer sheet to Brunson.

[elias808]

Are the Blazers getting involved in the Detroit/New York trade? Why hasn't the Grsnt trade been finalized, unless there is more to it?

I believe trades don't become official until July 6th when the new season officially starts.

[Wizenheimer]

Spoiler:

* At first glance, the Clippers trade looked bad. But when looked at a little closer, maybe it wasn't nearly as bad as it seemed. Blazers got under the tax line while gaining nearly 65M in future salary savings. RoCo was not going to re-sign in Portland and he wasn't going to bring back a 1st in trade. Powell's contract coupled with his unsuitability as a SF and massively overrated defense was not a net plus. Not close. Essentially, the trade was Powell for Winslow + Johnson + 2nd + 6.6M TPE + 70M in cap-relief. That's not really the horrible trade that people claimed it was. Yeah, you have to factor RoCo, but mostly, he was sunk olshey-cost

No. It's bad. And if you want to play the "don't look at one move in isolation", the Blazers traded Gary Trent Jr. - a guy who can play SF - for Powell for Winslow+Johnson+2nd.

no...that's just purely stupid compared to the obvious context I was using. Olshey was fired...he was gone...his roster logic was vacated and there was new management. Past transactions did not control current transactions. The much needed and years delayed decision was made to dismantle olshey's grossly overpaid dysfunctional roster. THAT is the context and those deadline trades were just the beginning of a process

And then you look at Powell's advanced metrics:
PER: 27.3 (LAC), 15.3 (POR)
WS/48: .272 (LAC), .076 (POR)
BPM: 7.7 (LAC), -1.0 (POR)
TS%: .682 (LAC), .593 (POR)

And Covington's:
PER: 19.4 (LAC), 10.0 (POR)
WS/48: .200 (LAC), .037 (POR)
BPM: 4.1 (LAC), -1.3 (POR)
TS%: .677 (LAC), .519 (POR)

...and it starts becoming pretty apparent that the Blazers, be it due to roster construction or coaching, weren't using either player effectively.

it only becomes apparent to someone invested in misinterpreting numbers

Powell and Roco were not a pair of rookies with little basis for gauging their talent. between them they have played 16 seasons and 1060 games. With that kind of gauge, it's nonsense to form a judgement based upon a tiny sample size. For example, let's adjust your numbers hust a little

Powell:

PER: 27.3 (LAC), 14.6 (career)
WS/48: .272 (LAC), .099 (career)
BPM: 7.7 (LAC), -.01 (career)
TS%: .682 (LAC), .588 (career)

RoCo:

PER: 19.4 (LAC), 13.0 (career)
WS/48: .200 (LAC), .085 (career)
BPM: 4.1 (LAC), 0.4 (career)
TS%: .677 (LAC), .555 (career)

WOW!!!...the Clippers had some magic beans that obviously unlocked the all-star talent in Powell and RoCo. Either that, or using a 5 game sample size for Powell or a 23 game sample size for RoCo is completely nuts. Those were simply aberrations; exceptions that proves the rule

(as long as you're cherry-picking stats to make a vapid argument you might want to take a look at Josh Hart's numbers. In his 13 game sample in Portland he posted career highs in PER, TS%, eFG%, Assist%, OBPM, and BPM....All-Star!!!)

so no...the value of those two players was not that of your numbers. It was that of their career marks, and for instance, both have career PER's that are below average. Obviously, Powell was playing out of position in Portland because Olshey is an idiot. And just as obviously, RoCo was the reported Blazer who didn'y buy-in to Chauncey's system. Powell & RoCo were starters on a Blazer team that was 13 games under .500 by the trade deadline. And they were on that Clippers team that lost, at home, to the Pels in the play-in. They are average role-players and provisional starters depending on the situation. The reality is their talent is not sufficient to alter the trajectory of any team. That's their value and that value was less because of their contracts.....

....meaning the trade wasn't as bad as initially stated. To be sure, it wasn't a good trade, but it was definitely necessary,

[JasonStern]

you might want to take a look at Josh Hart's numbers. In his 13 game sample in Portland he posted career highs in PER, TS%, eFG%, Assist%, OBPM, and BPM....All-Star!!!

I hope you're right on this, Wiz! The team could use a second all-star.

[tester551]

I’m wondering if part of the reason the Grant trade is being delayed is that Portland has the option to include Bledsoe to dump his $4M guarantee if we don’t find something better

[Village Idiot]

I’m wondering if part of the reason the Grant trade is being delayed is that Portland has the option to include Bledsoe to dump his $4M guarantee if we don’t find something better

It sure would be nice if that trade used Bledsoe and not the TPE. It helps in that we save the money and cap-space from that $3.9 guarantee and still have a big TPE to use

[DaVoiceMaster]

I’m wondering if part of the reason the Grant trade is being delayed is that Portland has the option to include Bledsoe to dump his $4M guarantee if we don’t find something better

To use Bledsoe, the Pistons would have to be able to take on the $19M contract with the Blazers only able to receive $3.9M in return. It sounds darn near impossible to utilize that deal in a trade.

[tester551]

I’m wondering if part of the reason the Grant trade is being delayed is that Portland has the option to include Bledsoe to dump his $4M guarantee if we don’t find something better

To use Bledsoe, the Pistons would have to be able to take on the $19M contract with the Blazers only able to receive $3.9M in return. It sounds darn near impossible to utilize that deal in a trade.

Incorrect. It's a simple trade.

For Portland:
Grant -> TPE

For Detroit:
Bledsoe -> Grant

Bledsoe's contract would not have to be guaranteed for anything more than the $3.9M that it currently is.

[DaVoiceMaster]

I’m wondering if part of the reason the Grant trade is being delayed is that Portland has the option to include Bledsoe to dump his $4M guarantee if we don’t find something better

To use Bledsoe, the Pistons would have to be able to take on the $19M contract with the Blazers only able to receive $3.9M in return. It sounds darn near impossible to utilize that deal in a trade.

Incorrect. It's a simple trade.

For Portland:
Grant -> TPE

For Detroit:
Bledsoe -> Grant

Bledsoe's contract would not have to be guaranteed for anything more than the $3.9M that it currently is.

Just repeating what the so-called expert that was a guest on the radio station this afternoon.

Take it for what it's worth.

[tester551]

To use Bledsoe, the Pistons would have to be able to take on the $19M contract with the Blazers only able to receive $3.9M in return. It sounds darn near impossible to utilize that deal in a trade.

Incorrect. It's a simple trade.

For Portland:
Grant -> TPE

For Detroit:
Bledsoe -> Grant

Bledsoe's contract would not have to be guaranteed for anything more than the $3.9M that it currently is.

Just repeating what the so-called expert that was a guest on the radio station this afternoon.

Take it for what it's worth.

I didn't hear what the 'expert' said.

Since Portland will be hard capped, it will be difficult to make a trade with additional salary coming back. That eliminates ~25 teams from a potential Bledsoe trade.... which I'm guessing the guy on the radio was talking about.

The other team will have to be able to take all $19M of Bledsoe's contract (regardless of how much of that is guaranteed) & Portland would not be allowed to bring back more than ~$7M in salary (based on what we are projecting).

That is why including Bledsoe (+cash) in the Detroit trade is so advantageous. Grant will be traded here regardless (so there is no extra salary incoming), but we also get to dump Bledsoe's $3.9M off our books.

[Wizenheimer]

Since Portland will be hard capped, it will be difficult to make a trade with additional salary coming back. That eliminates ~25 teams from a potential Bledsoe trade.... which I'm guessing the guy on the radio was talking about.

The other team will have to be able to take all $19M of Bledsoe's contract (regardless of how much of that is guaranteed) & Portland would not be allowed to bring back more than ~$7M in salary (based on what we are projecting).

That is why including Bledsoe (+cash) in the Detroit trade is so advantageous. Grant will be traded here regardless (so there is no extra salary incoming), but we also get to dump Bledsoe's $3.9M off our books.

yes, the Pistons now have a TPE = to Grant's current salary. That TPE would be sufficient to absorb Bledsoe, then waive him. The problem is, that 21M TPE the Pistons have from the Grant trade is pretty valuable...a 21M TPE certainly was valuable to Portland

now, I can't figure exactly how much cap-space the Pistons still have....I think it's in the 12-15M range; but that's after subtracting Grant's salary. Meaning that TPE is valuable now and will have increasing value as the trade deadline approaches. Detroit isn't likely to give that up for nothing. Maybe an agreement on Bledsoe was part of the original trade, but if so, I'd expect Portland would be shipping more draft-assets/cash Detroit's way

Blazers need to off-load some salary since the kinda-dumb Payton signing left them hard-capped and too close to the line

[tester551]

Since Portland will be hard capped, it will be difficult to make a trade with additional salary coming back. That eliminates ~25 teams from a potential Bledsoe trade.... which I'm guessing the guy on the radio was talking about.

The other team will have to be able to take all $19M of Bledsoe's contract (regardless of how much of that is guaranteed) & Portland would not be allowed to bring back more than ~$7M in salary (based on what we are projecting).

That is why including Bledsoe (+cash) in the Detroit trade is so advantageous. Grant will be traded here regardless (so there is no extra salary incoming), but we also get to dump Bledsoe's $3.9M off our books.

yes, the Pistons now have a TPE = to Grant's current salary. That TPE would be sufficient to absorb Bledsoe, then waive him. The problem is, that 21M TPE the Pistons have from the Grant trade is pretty valuable...a 21M TPE certainly was valuable to Portland

now, I can't figure exactly how much cap-space the Pistons still have....I think it's in the 12-15M range; but that's after subtracting Grant's salary. Meaning that TPE is valuable now and will have increasing value as the trade deadline approaches. Detroit isn't likely to give that up for nothing. Maybe an agreement on Bledsoe was part of the original trade, but if so, I'd expect Portland would be shipping more draft-assets/cash Detroit's way

Blazers need to off-load some salary since the kinda-dumb Payton signing left them hard-capped and too close to the line

Teams cant have TPE and cap space. To get cap space, you have to waive all exceptions (TPE, MLE, etc).

Therefore it would not adversely impact Detroit's salary cap (outside of the $3.9m hit).