Better Player Right Now: Stephen Curry or Jokic

[ty 4191]

I'd rather take the guy who puts up wins in the playoffs. Curry doesn't care about stats.

This is why the winning argument is so bad. You're basically admitting if Jokic had a better team you'd rate him higher and if Curry had a worse team you'd rate him lower. Unless, of course, you're working backwards from a conclusion (which I'm convinced most people who make this point are)

Exactly Hobo4President!!

I've posted this before, but maybe people haven't read it. So, the Curry "RANGGZZ" people need to see and process it again:

Michael Jordan through age 27, Playoffs, before they built a Dynasty around him:

-Playoffs (53 games)
-Team Record: 24-29
-Team Series Record: 5-6
-3 first round exits, including 2 first round sweeps
-Two ECF

Jordan's line: 36.2/6.9/6.7 on +4.7% rTS. Led all players those years in all advanced and traditional metrics in the playoffs.

Nikola Jokic through age 26, Playoffs:

-Playoffs: (48 games)
-Team Record: 21-27
-Team Series Record: 4-4
-1 first round exit
-1 WCF

Jokic's line: 26.4/11.5/6.4 on +4.1 rTS%. Top 3 player in all advanced and traditional metrics in the playoffs.

Wilt Chamberlain through age 28, Playoffs:

-Playoffs: (47 games)
-Team Record: 21-26
-Team Series Record: 4-5
-Much shorter playoffs structure, so they're incompatible. Still:

Wilt's line: 33.4/26.0/3.2 on +4.7 tTS%. Clearly the MVP in the playoffs in all advanced and traditional metrics.

What did Michael Jordan win before they built a Superteam around him, while also bringing in the greatest coach of all time?

What did Wilt win, while he had coaches (that got fired or let go every year or so) 1960-1965? What did he win before he got great coaches, teammates, ownership, management around him?

Or maybe, just maybe, it's not how great YOU are, but how great your teammates, coaches, management, ownership are?

[ty 4191]

I don’t think he could have done any more in his circumstances in the recent play-offs either. But until he wins a title, he hasn’t, and hasn’t proved his playing style works deep in the play-offs in particular.

The RANGZZ argument strikes again.

Jokic has never played with an All Star. How many All Stars has Curry played with?

How many future HOFers has Curry played with?

When you second best player is Aaron Gordon, and you're playing fully healthy World Championship Team in the first round, it's kind of hard to win a Championship.

Jokic getting a team without their two best players for the entire season (with scrubs playing massive minutes in their place) to 48 wins and the 5th seed is damned impressive. It's on par with Kareem in 77' and Wilt in 65' and the other greatest team carry jobs in history.

[Impuniti]

currys on the process of getting washed no one can defeat father time. i predicted lebron james 2 yrs earlier same with curry hes already depreciating 10% per yr. theres no way in any scenario curry is a superior basketball player than jokic in yr 2023. every single stat including 3pt efficiency will be surpassed by joker curry will feel a huge gap between him and all time great center.

this yr curry played with 4 max guys with 300mil salary while jokic played with g leaguers. and yet they were similar 50 win teams. that alone shows jokic in gs would easily 3peat sweeping boston. jokic is pretty much westbrook mvp season but 65% ts version. thats literally goat caliber curry cant even compare to.

How did the Mavs in 5 prediction go?

[ShootersShoot]

I was replying to the guy who said Jokics 27/14/8 made him better than curry. Then you have to consider things like how often OKC scored on putbacks on his misses, etc when their only option was him attacking the rim alot of times. The percentages can be misleading as far as impact. Turnovers are/have always been a problem for Russ, true. He did average 31/10/10 which most people seem to go out of their way to discredit, while Jokic is hailed as a GOAT on here.

Ive never seen a player accomplish so little (again he is 27 and has averaged over 20ppg 3 times) yet be propped up so much as Jokic. He certainly has time to build on that, but man if he loses any mobility around age 30 at his size/weight, it may not be as much time as people think. There are alot of studs coming up right now and always.

I think he had the same issues as steph, and by that I mean kind of a late bloomer so people are not sure how sustainable those gaudy stats may be.

The thing about Jokic is, he has led his team to the WCF the last time he played with murray... He has not had murray in the past two playoffs. The reason why people tout Jokic so highly is because they are able to look past the holes in his roster with the current injuries and judge him based on his skills alone. How far exactly do you expect Jokic to go without murray and MPJ? Do you expect him to get to the wcf without them?

KG was considered a superstar even though he never led his team past the first round until his eighth season. Sometimes, you have to look past the lack of perceived team accomplishment and see a player for what he really is. At least to me, its very evident Jokic is one of the 10 best players in the nba.

Did he really lead them to the WCF though? Murray was their leading scorer in those playoffs, and went for 40 plus 4 times, 50 twice! 3 of those came in a first round series that went 7 games. They lose that series if Murray doesnt play at an all time level. The 4th one came in game 7 of the second round.
Jokic was very solid in his own right, averaging 24ppg in those playoffs compared to Murrays 26. His high game was 34 and he averaged 22ppg in the WCF. Its fair to say Murray led them to the WCF as much as Jokic did.

And yes, Jokic is quite clearly one of the top players in the NBA today.

Good point. I looked up how many times each player was the leading scorer of the two in each game. It was tied. Jokic outscored murray in 9 games, and murray outscored jokic in 9 games. They tied in one.

But really, the main point was that Jokic can go on a deep playoff run with a healthy team. Is it reasonable to think Jokic can reach the wcf or even finals with murray/mpj injured? Of course it isnt.

[Big J]

This is why the winning argument is so bad. You're basically admitting if Jokic had a better team you'd rate him higher and if Curry had a worse team you'd rate him lower. Unless, of course, you're working backwards from a conclusion (which I'm convinced most people who make this point are)

Exactly Hobo4President!!

I've posted this before, but maybe people haven't read it. So, the Curry "RANGGZZ" people need to see and process it again:

Michael Jordan through age 27, Playoffs, before they built a Dynasty around him:

-Playoffs (53 games)
-Team Record: 24-29
-Team Series Record: 5-6
-3 first round exits, including 2 first round sweeps
-Two ECF

Jordan's line: 36.2/6.9/6.7 on +4.7% rTS. Led all players those years in all advanced and traditional metrics in the playoffs.

Nikola Jokic through age 26, Playoffs:

-Playoffs: (48 games)
-Team Record: 21-27
-Team Series Record: 4-4
-1 first round exit
-1 WCF

Jokic's line: 26.4/11.5/6.4 on +4.1 rTS%. Top 3 player in all advanced and traditional metrics in the playoffs.

Wilt Chamberlain through age 28, Playoffs:

-Playoffs: (47 games)
-Team Record: 21-26
-Team Series Record: 4-5
-Much shorter playoffs structure, so they're incompatible. Still:

Wilt's line: 33.4/26.0/3.2 on +4.7 tTS%. Clearly the MVP in the playoffs in all advanced and traditional metrics.

What did Michael Jordan win before they built a Superteam around him, while also bringing in the greatest coach of all time?

What did Wilt win, while he had coaches (that got fired or let go every year or so) 1960-1965? What did he win before he got great coaches, teammates, ownership, management around him?

Or maybe, just maybe, it's not how great YOU are, but how great your teammates, coaches, management, ownership are?

Curry's greatest attribute doesn't show up in stats though. It's his ability to make teammates better. He demands more attention than anyone who's ever played the game and that allows his teammates to get wide open dunks and 3's without even touching the ball. It's called gravity.

[ty 4191]

Curry's greatest attribute doesn't show up in stats though. It's his ability to make teammates better. He demands more attention than anyone who's ever played the game and that allows his teammates to get wide open dunks and 3's without even touching the ball. It's called gravity.

It's called having, possibly, the greatest teammates of all time on Superteams.

[Big J]

Curry's greatest attribute doesn't show up in stats though. It's his ability to make teammates better. He demands more attention than anyone who's ever played the game and that allows his teammates to get wide open dunks and 3's without even touching the ball. It's called gravity.

It's called having, possibly, the greatest teammates of all time on Superteams.

Riiiight, so Andrew Wiggins just magically goes from being trash for 6 years to an All-Star shooting 40% from 3 for no reason at all? Maybe, just maybe it's because he gets practice 3's all game long due to playing with the GOAT shooter of all time.

[Bob Ross]

I am better than both

[DrCoach]

So Curry and not LeBron was the best player in the NBA after the 2016 finals ?.

Stay on topic

No answer then.

Not off topic, no.

[michaelm]

Stay on topic

No answer then.

Not off topic, no.

We both know the answer. You don’t want to apply the same argument to your guy.

[michaelm]

Double

[WarriorGM]

Curry's greatest attribute doesn't show up in stats though. It's his ability to make teammates better. He demands more attention than anyone who's ever played the game and that allows his teammates to get wide open dunks and 3's without even touching the ball. It's called gravity.

It's called having, possibly, the greatest teammates of all time on Superteams.

Who among his teammates make top ten lists? None. Who among his teammates even make the 75th Anniversary Team? One guy? Look at all the guys who are supposedly better who have multiple teammates on those lists.

[DrCoach]

No answer then.

Not off topic, no.

We both know the answer. You don’t want to apply the same argument to your guy.

Why do you keep replying to yourself

[michaelm]

Not off topic, no.

We both know the answer. You don’t want to apply the same argument to your guy.

Why do you keep replying to yourself

You say in a reply to a post of mine.

[Pennebaker]

Curry's greatest attribute doesn't show up in stats though. It's his ability to make teammates better. He demands more attention than anyone who's ever played the game and that allows his teammates to get wide open dunks and 3's without even touching the ball. It's called gravity.

It's called having, possibly, the greatest teammates of all time on Superteams.

Who among his teammates make top ten lists? None. Who among his teammates even make the 75th Anniversary Team? One guy? Look at all the guys who are supposedly better who have multiple teammates on those lists.

Steve Kerr makes top 5 lists.

I'd rather have Steve Kerr as my head coach than Anthony Davis as my PF.

[FlatearthZorro]

Jokic is ridiculous 27/12/~8- still in his prime.
Curry is fantastic and very easy to fit on any team. Jokic to me raises everybody's level so easily. I got Jokic.

[Ballerhogger]

If only Jokic had goat like coach and system and HoF teamates. Instead he had will barton…. So yea the talent between supporting cast is quite large . Jokic is better player over all . Curry can’t win on his own , he’s lottery commander . If you put him on the nuggets how far would they go?

[WarriorGM]

It's called having, possibly, the greatest teammates of all time on Superteams.

Who among his teammates make top ten lists? None. Who among his teammates even make the 75th Anniversary Team? One guy? Look at all the guys who are supposedly better who have multiple teammates on those lists.

Steve Kerr makes top 5 lists.

I'd rather have Steve Kerr as my head coach than Anthony Davis as my PF.

When did Steve Kerr make any coaching lists independently of Curry?

[Jerry Maine]

I'm going with the guy in the top ten alltime discussions.

Jokic is currently the better player for carrying a team through the long regular season, and certainly steps up in the playoffs, but Curry is currently the most devastating player on the planet in a 7 game series.

[WarriorGM]

If only Jokic had goat like coach and system and HoF teamates. Instead he had will barton…. So yea the talent between supporting cast is quite large . Jokic is better player over all . Curry can’t win on his own , he’s lottery commander . If you put him on the nuggets how far would they go?

They'd win a championship. Don't believe me? Iguodala and JaVale came from the Nuggets didn't they? Next to Curry they promptly get their first rings.