2011-'14 Heat: Replace Lebron w/ '19-'22 Giannis

[Matt15]

How many titles do the Heat win if you replaced Lebron on the Heat w/ Giannis?

[Stan]

I’ll give him 2011, but claiming he wins any other year only insinuates Giannis is equivalent to peak LeBron, or better if you think he turns the 2014 Finals around.

[falcolombardi]

I am not sure he wins any, 19 giannis got walled off in a similar way by toronto as lebron with dallas

I think his monster defense may tilt 2011 to heat but i dont think he wins 2012 and 2013

[ivorytower]

They might win 2011 because Wade was still playing at a high enough level. I don't think they even make the Finals in 2012 or 2013, it was clear by that point that not only had Wade fallen off, his style of play clashed too much with LeBron's to the point where lineups with just LeBron on the floor were outperforming lineups with both of them.

[Colbinii]

I went with 1, slightly better odds to win in 2011 with worse odds of winning in 2012 and 2013 [and slightly better odds in 2014 but not enough to make the 2014 Finals competitive].

[No-more-rings]

Voted 0, but 2012 may be a tossup.

[JordansBulls]

Well Wade is there still and Bosh and they probably get maximized more so.

[Colbinii]

Well Wade is there still and Bosh and they probably get maximized more so.

A worse playmaker, passer and shooter somehow maximize Wade and Bosh more?

[RCM88x]

I don't think they'd have enough offense, like others have said 2011 is their best chance by far but after that it would be very tough sledding. Actually looking at the spacing of that 2011 team makes me question if they'd really even have a shot that year, Bosh would definitely have a tougher time finding his role offensively and defensively and Wade has to carry much more of a playmaking role and I don't know if that's really a method of success.

2014 is the other interesting year because of the theoretical defensive upgrade and improved spacing but even then they're not much better than the Bucks we saw in the playoffs (if at all) so I don't think anything improves for the Heat there.

[No-more-rings]

Lebron in the 2014 finals averaged 28 ppg on 68 ts%, with 3/4 losses coming with massive margins. That’s like the one series where they’d really have no shot whatsoever.

[OhayoKD]

they win in 2011. rest probably not

[OhayoKD]

I am not sure he wins any, 19 giannis got walled off in a similar way by toronto as lebron with dallas

I think his monster defense may tilt 2011 to heat but i dont think he wins 2012 and 2013

they almost beat toronto anyway though coz of giannis's defense.

[OhayoKD]

I’ll give him 2011, but claiming he wins any other year only insinuates Giannis is equivalent to peak LeBron, or better if you think he turns the 2014 Finals around.

i don't see what the issue with giannus over 2014 lebron is. 14 is by far lebron's worst season in his prime as far as impact stuff goes and his vaunted true shooting notably dissapeared in all the close games they had vs the pacers and the spurs dropping from 60% ts in blowouts to 40-50% ts in games decided by the margin.

Cavs were a horrible playoff defense with lebron in 14. Replacing him with an atg defender instantly makes them better even if it's not good enough to win a championship

[OhayoKD]

Lebron in the 2014 finals averaged 28 ppg on 68 ts%, with 3/4 losses coming with massive margins. That’s like the one series where they’d really have no shot whatsoever.

lebron's shot well below league average in the games that weren't blowouts vs bnoth the pacers and the spurs. Not to mention lebron was outright bad defensively. Idk if the heat win with giannis, but i'm pretty sure they do better

[MyUniBroDavis]

Lebron in the 2014 finals averaged 28 ppg on 68 ts%, with 3/4 losses coming with massive margins. That’s like the one series where they’d really have no shot whatsoever.

lebron's shot well below league average in the games that weren't blowouts vs bnoth the pacers and the spurs. Not to mention lebron was outright bad defensively. Idk if the heat win with giannis, but i'm pretty sure they do better

Pretty sure his defense picked up post all star and in the playoffs

[OhayoKD]

Lebron in the 2014 finals averaged 28 ppg on 68 ts%, with 3/4 losses coming with massive margins. That’s like the one series where they’d really have no shot whatsoever.

lebron's shot well below league average in the games that weren't blowouts vs bnoth the pacers and the spurs. Not to mention lebron was outright bad defensively. Idk if the heat win with giannis, but i'm pretty sure they do better

Pretty sure his defense picked up post all star and in the playoffs

miami's defense got cooked by the 23rd and 14th best offenses in the league in the playoffs. Nvm what happened to them vs the spurs

[No-more-rings]

lebron's shot well below league average in the games that weren't blowouts vs bnoth the pacers and the spurs. Not to mention lebron was outright bad defensively. Idk if the heat win with giannis, but i'm pretty sure they do better

Pretty sure his defense picked up post all star and in the playoffs

miami's defense got cooked by the 23rd and 14th best offenses in the league in the playoffs. Nvm what happened to them vs the spurs

Thinking that Giannis singlehandedly stops a 3 point onslaught from the Spurs is laughable logic. Also it’s not like Giannis is this Hakeem level defender with some massive advantage over Lebron. Giannis does nothing with that old and worn down version of the Heat plain and simple.

[Lou Fan]

I am not sure he wins any, 19 giannis got walled off in a similar way by toronto as lebron with dallas

I think his monster defense may tilt 2011 to heat but i dont think he wins 2012 and 2013

Who beats them in 2012? The Thunder? Thunder weren't exactly a great team.

[falcolombardi]

I am not sure he wins any, 19 giannis got walled off in a similar way by toronto as lebron with dallas

I think his monster defense may tilt 2011 to heat but i dont think he wins 2012 and 2013

Who beats them in 2012? The Thunder? Thunder weren't exactly a great team.

The thunder were a great team

Both boston and thunder could beat them

[MisterHibachi]

I don't know why people are saying 2011. Miami doesn't get past the Bulls in this scenario. Their defense was ATG and would've walled off Giannis similar to how Toronto did.