WOJ/SHAMS: Nuggets trade Barton and Morris for KCP and Ish Smith

Dat2U · Post #141 » by **Dat2U** » Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:01 am

G Morris
G Beal ... Davis
F Barton ... Kispert
F Kuzma ... Avdija ... Hachimura ... Gill ... Todd
C Porzingis ... Gafford ... Carey

Wiz control the market on marginal/playable wings & forwards. Guys who would be 6th through 8th man on other teams. And just like last season we still have 5 PFs.

Our depth was praised last year but too many veteran 'rotation quality' players means guys fighting for minutes and spots and not enough opportunities/shots to keep folks happy.

IMO we're in the same position as last year with the exception that Beal will likely be locked into a long term detail pretty soon.

payitforward · Post #142 » by **payitforward** » Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:05 am

Overall, you are surely right. How not? How could you or I or anyone expect this team to change from god-awful to good by adding Johnny Davis & Monte Morris?

Monte Morris is an improvement, but neither he nor anything else aside from a complete rebuild will turn the Washington Wizards into a good team.

Period.

mhd · Post #143 » by **mhd** » Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:25 am

Dat2U wrote:
nate33 wrote:Well, this deal suggest the Wizards will continue with their current bifurcated strategy.

On one track, Sheppard is wheeling and dealing with veterans and cap room to try and win now around Beal. On the other track, Sheppard is building through the draft and will not sacrifice the future for now. This trade is part of the former.

It looks like they're keeping Beal. Let's hope it's for something less than the full max.

Someone on twitter said it best. Wizards raised their floor but didn't increase their ceiling. They got two competent role players for one. Its another masterstroke around the margins for Shepp.

The big problem is working the hell of out the margins isn't a needle mover. Shepp has won trade after trade. The Wall deal, the Gafford deal, the Russ deal, Porzingis & now this. All for what? Play-in status? Still not a clear top 8 team in the East so it still feels like nothing has changed.

The entire goal is to get 2 home playoff games and a round 1 exit. According to Kevin Sheehan, that's how they become profitable. The team doesn't care about winning. Tommy is doing the best he can with these restriction imposed by Ted. Ted only cares about money. Why else move the broadcasters from the floor (where the vast majority of teams place them) to high up in the rafter just so he could sell more court-side seats.

mhd · Post #144 » by **mhd** » Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:32 am

Dat2U wrote:G Morris
G Beal ... Davis
F Barton ... Kispert
F Kuzma ... Avdija ... Hachimura ... Gill ... Todd
C Porzingis ... Gafford ... Carey

Wiz control the market on marginal/playable wings & forwards. Guys who would be 6th through 8th man on other teams. And just like last season we still have 5 PFs.

Our depth was praised last year but too many veteran 'rotation quality' players means guys fighting for minutes and spots and not enough opportunities/shots to keep folks happy.

IMO we're in the same position as last year with the exception that Beal will likely be locked into a long term detail pretty soon.

Barton needs to go. It is time to play Deni at SF. My rotation would be:

PG: Morris/Beal/Davis
SG: Beal/Kispert/Davis (he won't get much PT earlier in the season ala Kispert last year)
SF: Deni/Kispert/Rui
PF: Kuz/Rui/KP/Gill
C: KP/Gaff

daSwami · Post #145 » by **daSwami** » Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:33 am

I'm guessing WUJr had some input into this trade, given he's already familiar with the incoming assets. Maybe these are "his" guys, that is, guys he trusts.

pcbothwel · Post #146 » by **pcbothwel** » Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:33 am

You may be right, but I would be really intrigued to go into this season with that lineup plus Delon Wright or Tyus Jones for the MLE.
Their depth and defense will win us games while Beal and KP handle to offensive load/usage.

Dat2U · Post #147 » by **Dat2U** » Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:52 am

pcbothwel wrote:You may be right, but I would be really intrigued to go into this season with that lineup plus Delon Wright or Tyus Jones for the MLE.
Their depth and defense will win us games while Beal and KP handle to offensive load/usage.

Did depth win us games last year? I think depth matters when its surrounded by elite talent but I don't think having 10 rotation caliber guys surrounded by Beal & KP is a recipe for success. We have bunch of guys that can fill out a rotation and not be completely terrible, we don't have enough players who can be the difference b/w wins and losses.

mhd · Post #148 » by **mhd** » Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:58 am

Dat2U wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:You may be right, but I would be really intrigued to go into this season with that lineup plus Delon Wright or Tyus Jones for the MLE.
Their depth and defense will win us games while Beal and KP handle to offensive load/usage.

Did depth win us games last year? I think depth matters when its surrounded by elite talent but I don't think having 10 rotation caliber guys surrounded by Beal & KP is a recipe for success. We have bunch of guys that can fill out a rotation and not be completely terrible, we don't have enough players who can be the difference b/w wins and losses.

Yeah, what we have is a bunch of tradeable contracts for a potential high upside trade. Our season rests on KP. If he's healthy, he's a difference maker.

Dat, (considering this team won't rebuild), whom would target in a trade as a gettable difference maker?

Jay81 · Post #149 » by **Jay81** » Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:58 am

pcbothwel wrote:You may be right, but I would be really intrigued to go into this season with that lineup plus Delon Wright or Tyus Jones for the MLE.
Their depth and defense will win us games while Beal and KP handle to offensive load/usage.

Am I missing something on delon Wright? His numbers seem horrific

TGW · Post #150 » by **TGW** » Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:14 am

Dat2U wrote:G Morris
G Beal ... Davis
F Barton ... Kispert
F Kuzma ... Avdija ... Hachimura ... Gill ... Todd
C Porzingis ... Gafford ... Carey

Wiz control the market on marginal/playable wings & forwards. Guys who would be 6th through 8th man on other teams. And just like last season we still have 5 PFs.

Our depth was praised last year but too many veteran 'rotation quality' players means guys fighting for minutes and spots and not enough opportunities/shots to keep folks happy.

IMO we're in the same position as last year with the exception that Beal will likely be locked into a long term detail pretty soon.

That's a 36 win team if I've ever seen one. Unimpressive.

Jay81 · Post #151 » by **Jay81** » Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:19 am

TGW wrote:
Dat2U wrote:G Morris
G Beal ... Davis
F Barton ... Kispert
F Kuzma ... Avdija ... Hachimura ... Gill ... Todd
C Porzingis ... Gafford ... Carey

Wiz control the market on marginal/playable wings & forwards. Guys who would be 6th through 8th man on other teams. And just like last season we still have 5 PFs.

Our depth was praised last year but too many veteran 'rotation quality' players means guys fighting for minutes and spots and not enough opportunities/shots to keep folks happy.

IMO we're in the same position as last year with the exception that Beal will likely be locked into a long term detail pretty soon.

That's a 36 win team if I've ever seen one. Unimpressive.

Yea man. That team looks horrendous if you take into account all the games kp and beal will miss

Illuminaire · Post #152 » by **Illuminaire** » Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:33 am

I posted this a few weeks back, but to recap...

Monte is solid. From the posts on this thread, people have the right expectations. He will give Washington steady and utterly unspectacular play from the PG spot. (Thankfully that is a massive improvement for you!)

Barton is the unholy combination of Nick Young and Jamal Crawford. He shoots when he should defer, and defers when he should shoot. He gets lost on defense during critical possessions. He has a handful of amazing moments surrounded by long stretches that make fans scream 'WTF are you doing?!?' at their TVs.

His paper stats look and highlight reels look way better than his actual impact on winning basketball games. For those who trust in his box scores, I implore you to watch a sampling of Denver games from last season. Count all the times he makes the completely wrong decision and ruins an offensive play or defensive rotation. That won't show up in the box score, but you will get to see Jokic making diplomatically constipated expressions while trying not to murder a teammate on live television.

pcbothwel · Post #153 » by **pcbothwel** » Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:35 am

Dat2U wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:You may be right, but I would be really intrigued to go into this season with that lineup plus Delon Wright or Tyus Jones for the MLE.
Their depth and defense will win us games while Beal and KP handle to offensive load/usage.

Did depth win us games last year? I think depth matters when its surrounded by elite talent but I don't think having 10 rotation caliber guys surrounded by Beal & KP is a recipe for success. We have bunch of guys that can fill out a rotation and not be completely terrible, we don't have enough players who can be the difference b/w wins and losses.

- Tyus Jones & Morris > Dinwiddie & Holiday
- I fully expect Beal & Kispert to be better this year, and I have Barton/Davis >= KCP
- We still have Kuz/Rui/Deni/Gill, but I anticipate Rui & Deni to be a bit better
- Lets assume Gafford doesnt improve, I have KP >>> Harrell

So again, we are better this year defensively and our last 3 lotto picks have shown promise and are a year older. The wild card is Beal bouncing back and KP's health, but they are the offensive engines that let the other guys pick their spots and play defense.

80sballboy · Post #154 » by **80sballboy** » Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:44 am

Jay81 wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:You may be right, but I would be really intrigued to go into this season with that lineup plus Delon Wright or Tyus Jones for the MLE.
Their depth and defense will win us games while Beal and KP handle to offensive load/usage.
Am I missing something on delon Wright? His numbers seem horrific

I don't know about horrific. Last year, was a struggle for Atlanta when he was playing behind Trae Young, but when they went to postseason, they relied on him more. His three-point shooting has gotten better over the last three years and I know he's attempting to break Ish Smith's streak of playing for the most teams (he's at 6). He's mainly a backup, who can play the 1 or 2 and that's I think is his allure. His height allows him to play either spot and he's not awful defensively. He's actually pretty good and I would like better defenders, especially at the point guard spot. That's where it starts.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wrighde01.html

WallStar · Post #155 » by **WallStar** » Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:47 am

How would you feel if they sign Kemba to a MLE? (That's if he even wants to be here).

PG - Walker, Morris
SG - Beal, Davis
SF - Barton, Kispert
PF - Kuzma, Avdija, Hachimura, Gill, Todd
C - Porzingis, Gafford, Carey

80sballboy · Post #156 » by **80sballboy** » Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:47 am

pcbothwel wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:You may be right, but I would be really intrigued to go into this season with that lineup plus Delon Wright or Tyus Jones for the MLE.
Their depth and defense will win us games while Beal and KP handle to offensive load/usage.

Did depth win us games last year? I think depth matters when its surrounded by elite talent but I don't think having 10 rotation caliber guys surrounded by Beal & KP is a recipe for success. We have bunch of guys that can fill out a rotation and not be completely terrible, we don't have enough players who can be the difference b/w wins and losses.

- Tyus Jones & Morris > Dinwiddie & Holiday
- I fully expect Beal & Kispert to be better this year, and I have Barton/Davis >= KCP
- We still have Kuz/Rui/Deni/Gill, but I anticipate Rui & Deni to be a bit better
- Lets assume Gafford doesnt improve, I have KP >>> Harrell

So again, we are better this year defensively and our last 3 lotto picks have shown promise and are a year older. The wild card is Beal bouncing back and KP's health, but they are the offensive engines that let the other guys pick their spots and play defense.

I would have taken Jones over Morris, but he might have been too expensive. Now, I'm all for Delon Wright due to the height and ability to defend though I assume that Morris would probably start over him. None of these moves are exciting but I wouldn't throw Davis to the wolves at the point just yet. Let him learn the NBA first, but with Beal around forever, he's going to need to learn the 1 and will need to bulk up to the play the 3.

80sballboy · Post #157 » by **80sballboy** » Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:49 am

WallStar wrote:How would you feel if they sign Kemba to a MLE? (That's if he even wants to be here).

PG - Walker, Morris
SG - Beal, Davis
SF - Barton, Kispert
PF - Kuzma, Avdija, Hachimura, Gill, Todd
C - Porzingis, Gafford, Carey

He's done. He's small and can't defend. Has bad knees. I know he torched us, which everyone did. But I would not consider him at this point in his career. Other than that, he's a perfect fit.

80sballboy · Post #158 » by **80sballboy** » Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:53 am

Jay81 wrote:
TGW wrote:
Dat2U wrote:G Morris
G Beal ... Davis
F Barton ... Kispert
F Kuzma ... Avdija ... Hachimura ... Gill ... Todd
C Porzingis ... Gafford ... Carey

Wiz control the market on marginal/playable wings & forwards. Guys who would be 6th through 8th man on other teams. And just like last season we still have 5 PFs.

Our depth was praised last year but too many veteran 'rotation quality' players means guys fighting for minutes and spots and not enough opportunities/shots to keep folks happy.

IMO we're in the same position as last year with the exception that Beal will likely be locked into a long term detail pretty soon.

That's a 36 win team if I've ever seen one. Unimpressive.
Yea man. That team looks horrendous if you take into account all the games kp and beal will miss

I would think that Porzingis is a bit of an upgrade over Thomas Bryant, Gafford and Harrell. Hopefully, the youngsters get better and maybe Davis does provide a little D and O in his first season. Try and get a more athletic wing and a legit starting point guard and you might have something interesting, but sure, it's probably 40 wins tops with what they have now and yes, KP will probably play 55-60 games. They might just rest him in certain BTBs just to hope that he lasts through the season. Beal played all 82 games twice in his career. Not many guys do that anymore and he missed a ton of games due to COVID the last two seasons before the wrist injury. I would also hope to limit his minutes to under 35 a game. He's A.C. Green compared to Porzingis. I don't think Shep is done yet.

FAH1223 · Post #159 » by **FAH1223** » Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:25 am

Dat2U wrote:G Morris
G Beal ... Davis
F Barton ... Kispert
F Kuzma ... Avdija ... Hachimura ... Gill ... Todd
C Porzingis ... Gafford ... Carey

Wiz control the market on marginal/playable wings & forwards. Guys who would be 6th through 8th man on other teams. And just like last season we still have 5 PFs.

Our depth was praised last year but too many veteran 'rotation quality' players means guys fighting for minutes and spots and not enough opportunities/shots to keep folks happy.

IMO we're in the same position as last year with the exception that Beal will likely be locked into a long term detail pretty soon.

Get your boy Delon Wright

Who we shoulda got three years ago instead of having to witness Ish and IT4 lead the worst defense in basketball history :lol:

dlts20 · Post #160 » by **dlts20** » Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:31 am

I might be the only one but I didn't want either of those guys in a rotation so I'm happy.