16 year old prospect: Victor Wembanyama

[BostonCouchGM]

can't compare him to Luka. Offenses aren't run through centers. Whoever controls the ball in Europe or in the NBA puts up stats. Period. I think the reason Victor is a higher rated prospect than Chet is because he appears to have a frame that could potentially fill out some plus he's so much younger. Also, I believe while the skill levels aren't too far apart he's a better athlete than Chet.

[crows2]

can't compare him to Luka. Offenses aren't run through centers. Whoever controls the ball in Europe or in the NBA puts up stats. Period. I think the reason Victor is a higher rated prospect than Chet is because he appears to have a frame that could potentially fill out some plus he's so much younger. Also, I believe while the skill levels aren't too far apart he's a better athlete than Chet.

He’s a higher rated prospect than Chet because he clearly outplayed him in a direct matchup a year ago despite being almost 2 years younger.

[Mirotic12]

Luka at age 19 was best player in Europe, at worst top 2 with Nando at the time. VIctor at age 18 put all time terrible efficiency stats for a center In Euroleague, he wasnt ready at all. Two complete opposite situations, Luka was the superstar, Victor is the project. Victor couldn't really score efficiently even in junior tournaments, people who think they are getting taller KD simply do not know what they are talking about. Put Victor in the NBA right now, he would be great rim protector from day one probably, but offensively he would just float around 3 point line and he would be left wide open cause his shot is just a work in progress.

Victor IMO could be modern day Bill Russell, all time great defensively, but when you gonna look back at his percentages and points per game, you will not see a superstar.

P.S. I am incredibly disappointed hes leaving Euroleague. Weak move, guy wasn't happy with his role, so he downgraded the competition...

I'd say Luka, at his age 19 season, was a top 3 player in Europe at the time, along with Nando De Colo and Sergio Llull. Llull was still in his prime then. Past his prime Vassilis Spanoulis, at age 35, was the next guy then. Then there was a gap in quality of the players after that. So something like,

1. Luka / De Colo / Llull
2. Spanoulis

big gap, then some other guys

For Luka to be in the same discussion with prime De Colo and prime Llull, and Spanoulis only about 2 years past his prime, at age 19, is truly astonishing. Basketball fans that don't follow EuroLeague, just don't understand how amazing that is.

Wembanyama being unhappy with his role as a reason to leave EuroLeague, isn't a good excuse to play at a weaker level. Tony Parker owns ASVEL, and his brother TJ coaches ASVEL. Tony Parker said he would have based the whole team around Wembanyama this upcoming season.

So that's not even a valid excuse. Neither would be playing for more money, as ASVEL has a much bigger budget and could pay a much bigger salary than those other French clubs that he was rumored to join and finally did join (Paris BC / Metropolitans 92).

The obvious reason for him to have made the move was to play in a weaker league, so as to make his stats and performance look much better to NBA scouts. Which will probably work.

It's obvious that most NBA scouts don't understand just how much of a gap there is in the levels. EuroLeague is substantially above the EuroCup, in terms of the level of competition, and most NBA scouts seem to incorrectly think they are relatively the same type of competition level.

[Mirotic12]

As someone who watches zero euro ball. I know this kid has been getting talked about for a few years now. Are we talking same level of prospect as Luka or no? Or just a very different discussion all together? Not nearly the player Luka was entering the draft, but just as high if not higher ceiling?

Luka's age 18 season in EuroLeague:

https://www.euroleaguebasketball.net/euroleague/players/luka-doncic/005929/

19.9 Minutes

43.3 FG%
37.1 3 PT FG%
84.4 FT%

7.8 points
4.5 rebounds
4.2 assists
0.9 steals
0.2 blocks


Wembanyama's age 18 season in EuroLeague:

https://www.euroleaguebasketball.net/euroleague/players/victor-wembanyama/009553/

17.5 Minutes

34.9 FG%
30.3 3 PT FG%
66.7 FT%

6.5 points
3.8 rebounds
0.5 assists
0.4 steals
1.9 blocks


It should be pointed out that Luka was playing on a much better team. Luka had his breakout at his age 19 EuroLeague season. Wembanyama's age 19 season will be played in the secondary level EuroCup, which is quite a bit lesser of a level of competition than the EuroLeague. And he's going to be playing on a way worse team (Metropolitans 92) than Luka was (Real Madrid).

So unfortunately, it won't be at all comparable to look at how they did in their age 19 seasons in Europe, due to the difference in levels of the teams and leagues.

With that being said, the leagues that Wembanyama will be competing in next season (French Pro A / EuroCup) are both much better than NCAA Division I.

[The-Power]

It's obvious that most NBA scouts don't understand just how much of a gap there is in the levels. EuroLeague is substantially above the EuroCup, in terms of the level of competition, and most NBA scouts seem to incorrectly think they are relatively the same type of competition level.

Have you spoken to them or how is that obvious? Because they draft players playing in lower-tier competitions high? That's because they try to gauge upside (whether or not one agrees with the conclusions is a different matter).

Honestly, it's very far-fetched to assume that scouts on NBA teams that spend millions of Dollars on overseas scouting and who fly around to watch all kinds of games throughout Europe simply don't know the basics about the competition. You may want to believe that, but that's just not at all realistic. These guys are well-connected to experts within Europe or even are from Europe – or have played there – themselves.

[bravor]

Na he is right. Sengun was killing in the Euroleague before geting drafted. Wait. he was not... And there are numerous examples (incl. top picks who went from Europe to ncaa or nbl).
EL used to be a decent way to monitor best prospects development, but not anymore. Too many teams relying on experienced players and we are far from the Fortitudo playing both Mancinelli/Belinelli at around 18 yers old (or Batum with Le Mans at 17/18 and Gallinari at the same age) with quite a decent amount of minutes. I am not gonna pretend tracking all euro prospects, but for me it stoped being a league where best euro youngsters were playing relevant time in the beginning of the 2010 (up to mid 10ies).
Last exemple was Advija who did not play a lot of mn in the El with the MTA.

Mirotic* is acting like there are Doncic everywhere. Well not. He is a once in a blue moon exception, and its geting worst year after year.

The good plan for young players is to develop and improve their game. Not to be relevant at all cost in a league that will encourage the HC to bench him everytime he does a rookie mistake.
And so far, it does work for most of them. If working means geting a guaranteed nba contract, with the development behind.

Eurocup level is better than what you say. Otherwise the winners of the EC would not perform so well in the all mighty Euroleague.

Anyway Victor won't play in any european cup so far. He apprently chose the project of Boulogne-Levallois and that team (which finished 3st of the regular season) is not qualified for either the EC or the BCL.
Unlike the 15th of our league and the 11th. Go figure, but ECA is amazing i know.

ps : And i forgot to add that Eurocup used to be a good place to see young prospects develop. Best examples are teams like Hemofarm Vrsac who had their fantastic trio of Markovic-Macvan-Marjanovic back in the end of the 2000.
Anyway, even if i am disappointed by Victor's choice (he should have chosen a project with either EC or the BCL), that wont prevent him from working on his body/game to get ready for the next big step for him.

Anyway, we will see. European cups are a mess right now (talking about the choices from the organizations which are far from stemming from results merit, as if in the nba a spot in post season was always granted to the Lakers even when they s* just because they are the Lakers).

/rant off

[Mirotic12]

Have you spoken to them or how is that obvious? Because they draft players playing in lower-tier competitions high? That's because they try to gauge upside (whether or not one agrees with the conclusions is a different matter).

Honestly, it's very far-fetched to assume that scouts on NBA teams that spend millions of Dollars on overseas scouting and who fly around to watch all kinds of games throughout Europe simply don't know the basics about the competition. You may want to believe that, but that's just not at all realistic. These guys are well-connected to experts within Europe or even are from Europe – or have played there – themselves.

Just look at the dozens of scouting reports or what they say on draft night. Many of them don't even know that the Spanish ACB League and the EuroLeague are two different leagues.

[Mirotic12]

Eurocup level is better than what you say. Otherwise the winners of the EC would not perform so well in the all mighty Euroleague.

No it's not. It's clearly better than NCAA D1. It's also much, much worse than the EuroLeague.

Anyway Victor won't play in any european cup so far. He apprently chose the project of Boulogne-Levallois and that team (which finished 3st of the regular season) is not qualified for either the EC or the BCL.

It seems that you are right. Even though numerous media reports claimed Metropolitans 92 were playing in EuroCup, they are not listed under the EuroCup's list of teams. They are not listed under the FIBA BCL's list of teams either.

So apparently, Wembanyama will only play in the French Pro A next season. That's an obviously huge cop out to improve his stats and draft positioning.

[The-Power]

Have you spoken to them or how is that obvious? Because they draft players playing in lower-tier competitions high? That's because they try to gauge upside (whether or not one agrees with the conclusions is a different matter).

Honestly, it's very far-fetched to assume that scouts on NBA teams that spend millions of Dollars on overseas scouting and who fly around to watch all kinds of games throughout Europe simply don't know the basics about the competition. You may want to believe that, but that's just not at all realistic. These guys are well-connected to experts within Europe or even are from Europe – or have played there – themselves.

Just look at the dozens of scouting reports or what they say on draft night. Many of them don't even know that the Spanish ACB League and the EuroLeague are two different leagues.

You do realize that NBA scouts and draft analysts that write articles or do rankings are completely different people, right? You'll never see actual NBA scouts publishing their scouting reports because that completely defeats the purpose of their job.

(Not to mention that I'd challenge you to show me the *many* serious analysts that don't realize the difference between the two leagues, which is once again just hyperbole on your part, probably using one example to make a statement about an entire group.)

[bravor]

Eurocup level is better than what you say. Otherwise the winners of the EC would not perform so well in the all mighty Euroleague.

No it's not. It's clearly better than NCAA D1. It's also much, much worse than the EuroLeague.

Anyway Victor won't play in any european cup so far. He apprently chose the project of Boulogne-Levallois and that team (which finished 3st of the regular season) is not qualified for either the EC or the BCL.

It seems that you are right. Even though numerous media reports claimed Metropolitans 92 were playing in EuroCup, they are not listed under the EuroCup's list of teams. They are not listed under the FIBA BCL's list of teams either.

So apparently, Wembanyama will only play in the French Pro A next season. That's an obviously huge cop out to improve his stats and draft positioning.

you are missing my very point.

Victor does not want to do everything to be #1 in next draft. Yes he does want to be drafted, if possible at the highest position, but his main objective now is to become a better basketball player.
He chose Levallois because our NT coach has a good resume on developing young talent (he was our coach when we had a golden generation which includes Batum, and he also was the coach that had Ntilikina before he was drafted, and in between he developed some youngsters (even though he did not succeed with all prospects).

I might be mistaken, but you (and couple others) seem really annoyed that Victor has so much 'hype' and somehow, you seem to think it overshadows Doncic. Well you know what, it does not.
It just has nothing to do. They have their own resume and their own choices. Its not Victor's fault if France is doing a better job (till the nbl stuff..) to protect their best prospects so that most of them start their career in our country.

You would know his mentality/mindset, you would know he (and his surroundings) are doing whatever they can to find the best place for him to improve. But he also wants to play and not watch his teamates having fun on the court without him. With a good coach (lets say Parker's brother is not necessary the most referenced coach in the world of bball, and the same could be said with new Paris's hc).
the anomaly is having a team that finishes 3rd on his domestic league without any chance to participate to either the EC or the BCL. Instead of pointng fingers where you should not, start adressing how the european cups are managed.

[remi_222]

Watch on YouTube

Official highlights of his whole season in the French league

[Mirotic12]

you are missing my very point.

Victor does not want to do everything to be #1 in next draft. Yes he does want to be drafted, if possible at the highest position, but his main objective now is to become a better basketball player.
He chose Levallois because our NT coach has a good resume on developing young talent (he was our coach when we had a golden generation which includes Batum, and he also was the coach that had Ntilikina before he was drafted, and in between he developed some youngsters (even though he did not succeed with all prospects).

I might be mistaken, but you (and couple others) seem really annoyed that Victor has so much 'hype' and somehow, you seem to think it overshadows Doncic. Well you know what, it does not.
It just has nothing to do. They have their own resume and their own choices. Its not Victor's fault if France is doing a better job (till the nbl stuff..) to protect their best prospects so that most of them start their career in our country.

You would know his mentality/mindset, you would know he (and his surroundings) are doing whatever they can to find the best place for him to improve. But he also wants to play and not watch his teamates having fun on the court without him. With a good coach (lets say Parker's brother is not necessary the most referenced coach in the world of bball, and the same could be said with new Paris's hc).
the anomaly is having a team that finishes 3rd on his domestic league without any chance to participate to either the EC or the BCL. Instead of pointng fingers where you should not, start adressing how the european cups are managed.

I'm just putting things into factual context. Some posters asked how he compares to Luka at the same age in Europe. He doesn't. No one did before either. That's all. I haven't actually said one negative word about Wembanyama here. Unless you think calling him out for taking an obvious easy road to avoid EuroLeague isn't a legit crticism. In that case, how can we debate, because it simply is a 100% totally fair critisim.

ASVEL's owner and president, Tony Parker, who's brother is also the team's head coach, said they would build the whole team around him this season. So I am simply not buying the he needed to be developed and get more playing time reason. It sounds like absolute complete and utter BS.

It quite frankly wreaks of the stuff coming from reps we have seen before like,

[paraphrasing] "Kurucs wasn't in Barca's main rotation because the team tried to sabotage him and his draft status".

[paraphrasing] "Hezonja wasn't playing consistently in Barca's rotation because they knew he was leaving for the NBA and so they wanted to punish him."

[paraphrasing] "Bender didn't play with Maccabi in EuroLeague because the coaches in EuroLeague hate all young players abd refuse to play them no matter what. Even if they are 10 times better than all the veterans in the team, they won't play."

All 100% obvious complete total BS, and these reasons for Wembanyama leaving ASVEL wreak of the same BS. That's all I am saying. It has nothing to do with the player's quality, or Luka, or anything else like being annoyed by the player. But it's very clear BS as to why he had to leave ASVEL.

it's beyond obvious this is done to ensure a #1 draft pick, out of concern that his play in EuroLeague wouldn't be good enough next season. Saying the totally obvious is just that. It's not even a critique of how he might actually perform next season, if he stayed with ASVEL. Two different issues.

It just looks bad....in the sense that it looks mentally weak. It looks beta. It looks Kevin Durant style beat weak mentality. But that's not to say that Durant isn't an all time great player, because he is. He's an amazing player when he has alphas and leaders around him. But he's also a huge beta, if he doesn't have such players around him. And it's these kinds of decisions that look like that sort of thinking. It still doesn't mean the player can't be a great player.

[remi_222]

Victor said that ASVEL did what they were supposed to do, so its outside of bball the reasons why he left, being coached by the best french coach probably is also part of the reason, being closer to his family from Paris, and, stop me guys if i'm wrong abt ir, but Metropolitans 92 may still have chance to play the EC via a wild card or something nah ?

[bravor]

They only can recover Pau's BCL spot if Pau is relegated. That will be known in 10 days ish.

@Mirotic
all i am saying is that there is not a single patern to legitimate the quality of a euro prospect. And being a wanna be young star in Euroleague is not a guarantee of success in the nba nor being a wannabe young star in other european cups a sign of future failure or lack of competitiveness.
For the record, Victor started in european cup at barely 16. It makes no sense to say he is hiding. And that's considering that scouts and/or franchises are dumb enough not to take any situation/factors into consideration. That's their job to balance their judgment and most have been doing their job for years.

Nothing guarantees any prospect that he will succeed. But if there was a single way to succeed, believe me all the players would follow what the franchises/scouts expect them to do.
The main thing for overseas projects is to play in significant pro leagues. It does not matter much if its the top of the top or a slighty lower competition. there are hundreds of example and i am sorry to say that except Doncic, the last 'euroleague young stars' have failed for most of them in the nba (or never delivered as expected).

Anyway i end here, i dont wanna bother other readers with european stuff.

[Jamaaliver]

Read on Twitter

[zimpy27]

can't compare him to Luka. Offenses aren't run through centers. Whoever controls the ball in Europe or in the NBA puts up stats. Period. I think the reason Victor is a higher rated prospect than Chet is because he appears to have a frame that could potentially fill out some plus he's so much younger. Also, I believe while the skill levels aren't too far apart he's a better athlete than Chet.

Does he measure up to Vesely? A big guy who won the euroleague MVP the year after Luka.

Chet is the comparison, will be interesting to see how well Chet's game translates to the NBA

[zimpy27]

Can you run an offense through Victor? Does he gave same vision and passing as Chet?

Haven't seen that in euroleague but maybe he wants to go to a place that he can show that off

[Big J]

I'm passing on the Yammer. His injuries are a major red flag. I don't know why teams continue to draft these big tall injury prone guys with the first or second pick. Do they really think he's going to stop breaking down once he starts playing 82 game seasons?

[EvanZ]

Read on Twitter

Sorry but that video shows him making one shot. Is there more to it than that? Because last season he shot 27.5% on 3s and 68.4% from the line. He has never shot above 30% on 3s.

[Big J]

Why is he shooting logo 3s in the first place? He’s 7’5 he needs to be in the post dominating guys down low. Hell if he learned how to shoot a hook shot it would be unguardable.