2022-23 NBA Season Discussion

[Colbinii]

I mean Durant winning 2 titles and Kawhi winning 1 isn't exactly failures

I would consider Kawhi Leonard having only 1 title since 2014 is a relative failure. It started when he sat out nearly an entire season, then he joined a 7.29 SRS team and has since been injured or upset in the post-season.

Durants time post-2016 could be viewed as a success but I factor in the 2016 cap jump as a once-in-a-lifetime event. All the stars aligned perfectly.

You think Kawhi would have 2+ titles if he stayed in San Antonio?

No, because no scenario barring injuries to a GSW player allows Kawhi and co to win in 2017 and 2018.

His only title was joining a near 60-win, 7+ SRS team. That's not remotely impressive.

There is a good chance the Spurs win in 2017 and even 2018 if the league knew how to handle excess revenue [which they do now--cap smoothing].

Considering how each player has handled themselves and the decisions they made [compared to LeBron who has always played when healthy and never requested a trade under contract, even in worse situations than that of KD/Kawhi], yeah, relative failures in my eyes.

[MartinToVaught]

I like how Kawhi is a failure for "only" winning one ring since 2014, but CP3 is celebrated for doing even more team-hopping with zero rings to show for it and never even getting past the second round as the first option on a team.

[parsnips33]

I think winning a ring as the clear best player on a team is plenty impressive I don't know

[Dr Positivity]

I would consider Kawhi Leonard having only 1 title since 2014 is a relative failure. It started when he sat out nearly an entire season, then he joined a 7.29 SRS team and has since been injured or upset in the post-season.

Durants time post-2016 could be viewed as a success but I factor in the 2016 cap jump as a once-in-a-lifetime event. All the stars aligned perfectly.

You think Kawhi would have 2+ titles if he stayed in San Antonio?

No, because no scenario barring injuries to a GSW player allows Kawhi and co to win in 2017 and 2018.

His only title was joining a near 60-win, 7+ SRS team. That's not remotely impressive.

There is a good chance the Spurs win in 2017 and even 2018 if the league knew how to handle excess revenue [which they do now--cap smoothing].

Considering how each player has handled themselves and the decisions they made [compared to LeBron who has always played when healthy and never requested a trade under contract, even in worse situations than that of KD/Kawhi], yeah, relative failures in my eyes.

The Raptors despite regular season success were still a team that got swept by 2018 Cavs. They weren't even a better roster than the Spurs team Kawhi left. I think he deserves more credit for it than Durant joining GSW.

[Colbinii]

I like how Kawhi is a failure for "only" winning one ring since 2014, but CP3 is celebrated for doing even more team-hopping with zero rings to show for it and never even getting past the second round as the first option on a team.

CP3 never sat out [Kawhi in 2018] and never left a team on his own accord. He was traded to the Rockets, Thunder and Suns.

He joined a Thunder team which just lost its two best players [traded for Westbrook] and led them to the playoffs and did better in the post-season than a Westbrook/PG13 tandem then went to a Suns team who hadn't sniffed the playoffs since Nash left [and led them to the Finals his 1st year].

That said, I'm not celebrating or championing CP3. Your hatred for him when he isn't relevant to this topic is quite hilarious.

[Colbinii]

I think winning a ring as the clear best player on a team is plenty impressive I don't know

I'm not really impressed with Curry winning in 2017 and 2018. I'm impressed by his 2019 run and 2022 run more.

[parsnips33]

The pendulum has swung too far back from RINGZ culture at this point lol

Kawhi winning in 2019 is unimpressive but CP3 gets a moral victory for a first round exit in OKC

[MartinToVaught]

CP3 never sat out [Kawhi in 2018]

Kawhi was injured.

and never left a team on his own accord.

He asked to be traded from the Hornets and Clippers. That's leaving on his own accord.

He joined a Thunder team which just lost its two best players [traded for Westbrook] and led them to the playoffs and did better in the post-season than a Westbrook/PG13 tandem then went to a Suns team who hadn't sniffed the playoffs since Nash left [and led them to the Finals his 1st year].

Where's the rings? If we're calling players failures for "only" winning one ring since 2014, then all I'm seeing here is a list of failures. He also didn't lead Booker and Ayton's team to the Finals, let's be real now. He was the third-best player on a team that got insanely lucky in facing three straight injury-ravaged teams in the playoffs and then folded against the only healthy team they faced.

Your hatred for him when he isn't relevant to this topic is quite hilarious.

I'm just saying, let's be consistent here with how we're judging players.

[Colbinii]

You think Kawhi would have 2+ titles if he stayed in San Antonio?

No, because no scenario barring injuries to a GSW player allows Kawhi and co to win in 2017 and 2018.

His only title was joining a near 60-win, 7+ SRS team. That's not remotely impressive.

There is a good chance the Spurs win in 2017 and even 2018 if the league knew how to handle excess revenue [which they do now--cap smoothing].

Considering how each player has handled themselves and the decisions they made [compared to LeBron who has always played when healthy and never requested a trade under contract, even in worse situations than that of KD/Kawhi], yeah, relative failures in my eyes.

The Raptors despite regular season success were still a team that got swept by 2018 Cavs. They weren't even a better roster than the Spurs team Kawhi left. I think he deserves more credit for it than Durant joining GSW.

They were swept because they ran into the greatest player ever having one of his greatest series ever. The Raptors lost because they had a player shoot 66 FGA, 0-9 from 3, Sub 50-TS%.

Then in 2019 they had 3 very young role players take a step forward due to a good system and massive improvements from their coach [Siakam, FVV, OG].

The point is they were talented enough to win 59-games and added a superstar.

I simply had higher expectations for Kawhi than 1 title between 2015-2022.

[parsnips33]

I think winning a ring as the clear best player on a team is plenty impressive I don't know

I'm not really impressed with Curry winning in 2017 and 2018. I'm impressed by his 2019 run and 2022 run more.

I don't think that's unreasonable, but it's all relative. Winning a championship is the hardest thing to do, especially if your team relies heavily on you

[Dr Positivity]

No, because no scenario barring injuries to a GSW player allows Kawhi and co to win in 2017 and 2018.

His only title was joining a near 60-win, 7+ SRS team. That's not remotely impressive.

There is a good chance the Spurs win in 2017 and even 2018 if the league knew how to handle excess revenue [which they do now--cap smoothing].

Considering how each player has handled themselves and the decisions they made [compared to LeBron who has always played when healthy and never requested a trade under contract, even in worse situations than that of KD/Kawhi], yeah, relative failures in my eyes.

The Raptors despite regular season success were still a team that got swept by 2018 Cavs. They weren't even a better roster than the Spurs team Kawhi left. I think he deserves more credit for it than Durant joining GSW.

They were swept because they ran into the greatest player ever having one of his greatest series ever. The Raptors lost because they had a player shoot 66 FGA, 0-9 from 3, Sub 50-TS%.

Then in 2019 they had 3 very young role players take a step forward due to a good system and massive improvements from their coach [Siakam, FVV, OG].

The point is they were talented enough to win 59-games and added a superstar.

I simply had higher expectations for Kawhi than 1 title between 2015-2022.

He also had no chance to win in 2017, 2018, 2021 and 2022 for health reasons. 2017 is most likely a loss, but 2018 and 21 and 22 are ones he could have had a shot.

[Colbinii]

The pendulum has swung too far back from RINGZ culture at this point lol

Kawhi winning in 2019 is unimpressive but CP3 gets a moral victory for a first round exit in OKC

Yeah, plenty of players could have won in 2019 in place of Kawhi.

LeBron, Durant, Butler, Giannis and maybe even guys like AD, George, Curry and Harden [depending on what mid-season move Toronto makes].

I was extremely impressed by Chris Paul in 2020 and his professionalism handling being traded for an inferior player to an inferior team and almost beating the team he was traded from. Were you not impressed?

[Colbinii]

The Raptors despite regular season success were still a team that got swept by 2018 Cavs. They weren't even a better roster than the Spurs team Kawhi left. I think he deserves more credit for it than Durant joining GSW.

They were swept because they ran into the greatest player ever having one of his greatest series ever. The Raptors lost because they had a player shoot 66 FGA, 0-9 from 3, Sub 50-TS%.

Then in 2019 they had 3 very young role players take a step forward due to a good system and massive improvements from their coach [Siakam, FVV, OG].

The point is they were talented enough to win 59-games and added a superstar.

I simply had higher expectations for Kawhi than 1 title between 2015-2022.

He also had no chance to win in 2017, 2018, 2021 and 2022 for health reasons. 2017 is most likely a loss, but 2018 and 21 and 22 are ones he could have had a shot.

He had a terrific shot in 2020 as well.

[Colbinii]

I think winning a ring as the clear best player on a team is plenty impressive I don't know

I'm not really impressed with Curry winning in 2017 and 2018. I'm impressed by his 2019 run and 2022 run more.

I don't think that's unreasonable, but it's all relative. Winning a championship is the hardest thing to do, especially if your team relies heavily on you

Winning a championship is extremely difficult because so much of it is out of your control. The coach, often times the organization you play for, health of yourself and teammates, your teammates level of player and the competitive balance [or imbalance] of the league and other teams all have massive effects on the likelihood of winning a championship.

[Lou Fan]

I'd say most players have enjoyed relative success. Howard and Westbrook failed but that has more to do with their declines as players. Kyrie's failed but he's also just not that good. Same with Carmelo. Juries out on Harden. Paul had success in Houston and Phoenix I'd call both of those wins honestly. PG to OKC was a fail but jury still out on Clips they were good enough in 20/21 if they were healthy. Kawhi to Toronto was a success. KD to GSW was a success. AD to LAL got a title. I'm seeing more success than failure honestly and of course there is because it's stacking the deck.

[MartinToVaught]

He had a terrific shot in 2020 as well.

Not with Doc as the coach.

[MartinToVaught]

I was extremely impressed by Chris Paul in 2020 and his professionalism handling being traded for an inferior player to an inferior team and almost beating the team he was traded from. Were you not impressed?

But you aren't impressed with Kawhi's professionalism in showing up for a team he didn't want to be traded to without complaining once and then leading them to a championship? Make it make sense.

[MyUniBroDavis]

He had a terrific shot in 2020 as well.

Not with Doc as the coach.

Learning doc is flat out a bottom 5-10 coach in the league was suprising lol

I’m not being sarcastic btw

[Lou Fan]

He had a terrific shot in 2020 as well.

Not with Doc as the coach.

Learning doc is flat out a bottom 5-10 coach in the league was suprising lol

I’m not being sarcastic btw

Thibs made his entire reputation

[Peregrine01]

All this talk from NBA players about brotherhood, loyalty, etc. is just plain BS. What we saw from Kyrie and KD the last few weeks are two guys just looking out for themselves. Incidentally, it was their own selfish interests that got them together in the first place and now that there's some difficulty, they won't hesitate to call it quits and look for greener pastures.

This makes me appreciate what Curry did so much more.