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2022-23 Regular Season

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Re: 2022 off season 

Post#141 » by jbk1234 » Fri Jul 1, 2022 5:13 pm

toooskies wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
toooskies wrote:Starting Sexton is still very much on the table if we bring Sexton back. If we're treating him as a bench guy we may as well trade him to Dallas now, no team is going to be as desperate and willing to pay for him as they probably are.

We shifted to tall-ball last year because we ostensibly had 4 viable big men for only two spots on the court-- specifically three players whose best position is PF. This year, the glut is worse at SG than it was at PF last year, with four guys who should be playing SG. I certainly wouldn't rule out a trade to balance the roster, but seeing tall-ball go away and putting one of Agbaji/Okoro/LeVert at the starting 3 is certainly on the table. We might platoon the starting 3 depending on who we're playing.

Playing LeVert at the backup 3 in Cedi's role is also a pretty strong option, especially if Love/Markkanen/Agbaji are getting minutes with the second unit and we don't need Cedi's shooting as much.


I sincerely hope (and suspect tbh) the Cavs front office disagrees. Sexton should see as few minutes on the floor with both Allen and Mobley as possible unless or until he's better able to play within an organized offensive. Starting, and then demoting him, could have serious repercussions, and given the fact that JBB had already started benching him to close out game before he got injured, I suspect a demotion would be almost inevitable. The idea that you would pull Lauri's shooting out of the starting unit and swap him with Okoro/LeVert, so you can force Sexton into the starting unit, seems completely bonkers to me. The spacing would be irreparable and you would handicap two, if not all three, of your best players.

I would say that it's likely that the Cavs' front office is divided on the issue of what role Sexton should have (thus giving us a disproportionate number of "is he an NBA player"/"is he an NBA starter"/"he almost got benched" stories over the years for a young guy on a rebuilding team) but the decision makers have only put him in the starting role since a few weeks into his career. We don't talk about inevitable benching of LaMelo Ball just because he sometimes got pulled at the end of games last year (including against us). JBB was just working to establish with Rubio that he was viewed as sort of the 6th starter. JBB wanted to keep Sexton out there enough that he was willing to try Garland/Sexton/Rubio lineups to close games.

Ultimately what I'd say is that right now Sexton has the best chance of being the answer at the 2 on this roster long-term if Markkanen stays at the 3 because we need a second playmaker. (I know you like LeVert more in that role, and that's fine-- other than his height, though, he shares many of Sexton's weaknesses.) And even if we shift Markkanen to the backup 4 if/when Love departs, we don't have any idea who our 3 is going to be when that happens, so there's no point in planning around that hypothetical player's skillset.


Sight unseen, I'd actually like to se what Agbaji looks like as a starter, but I wouldn't *give* the starting job to anyone. The idea of max spacing with that starting unit so that Allen, Mobley, and Garland can all go to work is one I find very appealing. The answer to your secondary playmaker might be Mobley operating from the elbow. The officials don't allow as much physical play out there as they do around the rim.

I'm just skeptical that asking Sexton to change who he is will end well and who he is is a guy who likes to put the ball on the deck, drive, and use his speed to beat defenders to their spots. That's not going to work well with the Cavs starting lineup. Let Sexton be Sexton off the bench. As soon as Allen or Mobley goes to the bench, bring him in and leave him out there until both Allen and Mobley are back on the court together. There's plenty of minutes for him in that role.

I have LeVert as a hedge against Sexton leaving tbh and if the Cavs end up retaining Sexton, something that looks more plausible now than before the start of F.A., I think the Cavs should move him before the deadline unless both Okoro and Agbaji are playing too poorly to start. Honestly, if Rubio is back by the deadline, they should probably move LeVert regardless of how Okoro and Agbaji are playing.
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Re: 2022 off season 

Post#142 » by toooskies » Fri Jul 1, 2022 5:19 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
toooskies wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
I sincerely hope (and suspect tbh) the Cavs front office disagrees. Sexton should see as few minutes on the floor with both Allen and Mobley as possible unless or until he's better able to play within an organized offensive. Starting, and then demoting him, could have serious repercussions, and given the fact that JBB had already started benching him to close out game before he got injured, I suspect a demotion would be almost inevitable. The idea that you would pull Lauri's shooting out of the starting unit and swap him with Okoro/LeVert, so you can force Sexton into the starting unit, seems completely bonkers to me. The spacing would be irreparable and you would handicap two, if not all three, of your best players.

I would say that it's likely that the Cavs' front office is divided on the issue of what role Sexton should have (thus giving us a disproportionate number of "is he an NBA player"/"is he an NBA starter"/"he almost got benched" stories over the years for a young guy on a rebuilding team) but the decision makers have only put him in the starting role since a few weeks into his career. We don't talk about inevitable benching of LaMelo Ball just because he sometimes got pulled at the end of games last year (including against us). JBB was just working to establish with Rubio that he was viewed as sort of the 6th starter. JBB wanted to keep Sexton out there enough that he was willing to try Garland/Sexton/Rubio lineups to close games.

Ultimately what I'd say is that right now Sexton has the best chance of being the answer at the 2 on this roster long-term if Markkanen stays at the 3 because we need a second playmaker. (I know you like LeVert more in that role, and that's fine-- other than his height, though, he shares many of Sexton's weaknesses.) And even if we shift Markkanen to the backup 4 if/when Love departs, we don't have any idea who our 3 is going to be when that happens, so there's no point in planning around that hypothetical player's skillset.


Sight unseen, I'd actually like to se what Agbaji looks like as a starter, but I wouldn't *give* the starting job to anyone. The idea of max spacing with that starting unit so that Allen, Mobley, and Garland can all go to work is one I find very appealing. The answer to your secondary playmaker might be Mobley operating from the elbow. The officials don't allow as much physical play out there as they do around the rim.

I'm just skeptical that asking Sexton to change who he is will end well and who he is is a guy who likes to put the ball on the deck, drive, and use his speed to beat defenders to their spots. That's not going to work well with the Cavs starting lineup. Let Sexton be Sexton off the bench. As soon as Allen or Mobley goes to the bench, bring him in and leave him out there until both Allen and Mobley are back on the court together. There's plenty of minutes for him in that role.

I have LeVert as a hedge against Sexton leaving tbh and if the Cavs end up retaining Sexton, something that looks more plausible now than before the start of F.A., I think the Cavs should move him before the deadline unless both Okoro and Agbaji are playing too poorly to start. Honestly, if Rubio is back by the deadline, they should probably move LeVert regardless of how Okoro and Agbaji are playing.

I could definitely see a competition playing out between the three of Sexton/Okoro/LeVert playing out, with the problem being that the player who loses the competition for minutes is probably not playing well enough to have value to some other team.
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Re: 2022 off season 

Post#143 » by toooskies » Fri Jul 1, 2022 5:20 pm

From ESPN:

12:50 p.m. ET: Free agent center Robin Lopez has agreed to a one-year deal with the Cleveland Cavaliers, sources told ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski. Lopez averaged 7.1 points and 3.5 rebounds in 36 games with the Orlando Magic last season.
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Re: 2022 off season 

Post#144 » by jbk1234 » Fri Jul 1, 2022 5:22 pm

toooskies wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
toooskies wrote:I would say that it's likely that the Cavs' front office is divided on the issue of what role Sexton should have (thus giving us a disproportionate number of "is he an NBA player"/"is he an NBA starter"/"he almost got benched" stories over the years for a young guy on a rebuilding team) but the decision makers have only put him in the starting role since a few weeks into his career. We don't talk about inevitable benching of LaMelo Ball just because he sometimes got pulled at the end of games last year (including against us). JBB was just working to establish with Rubio that he was viewed as sort of the 6th starter. JBB wanted to keep Sexton out there enough that he was willing to try Garland/Sexton/Rubio lineups to close games.

Ultimately what I'd say is that right now Sexton has the best chance of being the answer at the 2 on this roster long-term if Markkanen stays at the 3 because we need a second playmaker. (I know you like LeVert more in that role, and that's fine-- other than his height, though, he shares many of Sexton's weaknesses.) And even if we shift Markkanen to the backup 4 if/when Love departs, we don't have any idea who our 3 is going to be when that happens, so there's no point in planning around that hypothetical player's skillset.


Sight unseen, I'd actually like to se what Agbaji looks like as a starter, but I wouldn't *give* the starting job to anyone. The idea of max spacing with that starting unit so that Allen, Mobley, and Garland can all go to work is one I find very appealing. The answer to your secondary playmaker might be Mobley operating from the elbow. The officials don't allow as much physical play out there as they do around the rim.

I'm just skeptical that asking Sexton to change who he is will end well and who he is is a guy who likes to put the ball on the deck, drive, and use his speed to beat defenders to their spots. That's not going to work well with the Cavs starting lineup. Let Sexton be Sexton off the bench. As soon as Allen or Mobley goes to the bench, bring him in and leave him out there until both Allen and Mobley are back on the court together. There's plenty of minutes for him in that role.

I have LeVert as a hedge against Sexton leaving tbh and if the Cavs end up retaining Sexton, something that looks more plausible now than before the start of F.A., I think the Cavs should move him before the deadline unless both Okoro and Agbaji are playing too poorly to start. Honestly, if Rubio is back by the deadline, they should probably move LeVert regardless of how Okoro and Agbaji are playing.

I could definitely see a competition playing out between the three of Sexton/Okoro/LeVert playing out, with the problem being that the player who loses the competition for minutes is probably not playing well enough to have value to some other team.


Which is why the number they bring Sexton back at has always been very, very important.
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Re: 2022 off season 

Post#145 » by toooskies » Fri Jul 1, 2022 5:29 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
toooskies wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Sight unseen, I'd actually like to se what Agbaji looks like as a starter, but I wouldn't *give* the starting job to anyone. The idea of max spacing with that starting unit so that Allen, Mobley, and Garland can all go to work is one I find very appealing. The answer to your secondary playmaker might be Mobley operating from the elbow. The officials don't allow as much physical play out there as they do around the rim.

I'm just skeptical that asking Sexton to change who he is will end well and who he is is a guy who likes to put the ball on the deck, drive, and use his speed to beat defenders to their spots. That's not going to work well with the Cavs starting lineup. Let Sexton be Sexton off the bench. As soon as Allen or Mobley goes to the bench, bring him in and leave him out there until both Allen and Mobley are back on the court together. There's plenty of minutes for him in that role.

I have LeVert as a hedge against Sexton leaving tbh and if the Cavs end up retaining Sexton, something that looks more plausible now than before the start of F.A., I think the Cavs should move him before the deadline unless both Okoro and Agbaji are playing too poorly to start. Honestly, if Rubio is back by the deadline, they should probably move LeVert regardless of how Okoro and Agbaji are playing.

I could definitely see a competition playing out between the three of Sexton/Okoro/LeVert playing out, with the problem being that the player who loses the competition for minutes is probably not playing well enough to have value to some other team.


Which is why the number they bring Sexton back at has always been very, very important.

I mean, they could always give Sexton a big number and the starting job, which is what Collin would have expected or at least hoped.
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Re: 2022 off season 

Post#146 » by jbk1234 » Fri Jul 1, 2022 5:31 pm

toooskies wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
toooskies wrote:I could definitely see a competition playing out between the three of Sexton/Okoro/LeVert playing out, with the problem being that the player who loses the competition for minutes is probably not playing well enough to have value to some other team.


Which is why the number they bring Sexton back at has always been very, very important.

I mean, they could always give Sexton a big number and the starting job, which is what Collin would have expected or at least hoped.


And if things don't work out with Sexton as a starter after you've given him that big contract?

This has to be about doing what's best for the organization. It's the only way to build a team.
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Re: 2022 off season 

Post#147 » by JonFromVA » Fri Jul 1, 2022 5:42 pm

toooskies wrote:From ESPN:

12:50 p.m. ET: Free agent center Robin Lopez has agreed to a one-year deal with the Cleveland Cavaliers, sources told ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski. Lopez averaged 7.1 points and 3.5 rebounds in 36 games with the Orlando Magic last season.


Robin always play well against us, so he checked that box.
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Re: 2022 off season 

Post#148 » by gflem » Fri Jul 1, 2022 6:09 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
toooskies wrote:From ESPN:

12:50 p.m. ET: Free agent center Robin Lopez has agreed to a one-year deal with the Cleveland Cavaliers, sources told ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski. Lopez averaged 7.1 points and 3.5 rebounds in 36 games with the Orlando Magic last season.


Robin always play well against us, so he checked that box.

And honestly, the Cavs didn't have a player physical enough to protect Garland when teams wanted to rough him up to take him out of his game. Not to mention matching up with Embiid and other physical C's around the league. Very good signing imo.
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Re: 2022 off season 

Post#149 » by jbk1234 » Fri Jul 1, 2022 6:35 pm

Less pleased about signing Robin Lopez than the rest but it's for the league minimum so whatever. Dude has cement in his shoes and plays like Frank the Tank from Old School after getting shot with the tranquilizer dart.
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Re: 2022 off season 

Post#150 » by TheLand13 » Fri Jul 1, 2022 6:40 pm

I guess Lopez is a decent backup center in the event that Allen or Mobley are unavailable due to injury or something. But I seriously doubt he’ll be getting any playing time. Allen and Mobley usually took turns playing at center.
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Re: 2022 off season 

Post#151 » by JonFromVA » Fri Jul 1, 2022 6:41 pm

jbk1234 wrote:Less pleased about signing Robin Lopez than the rest but it's for the league minimum so whatever. Dude has cement in his shoes and plays like Frank the Tank from Old School after getting shot with the tranquilizer dart.


Apparently he used to set hard screens for Lauri back in Chicago, so that would be nice ...
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Re: 2022 off season 

Post#152 » by gflem » Fri Jul 1, 2022 6:53 pm

And six hard fouls to use up as well.
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Re: 2022 off season 

Post#153 » by Revenged25 » Fri Jul 1, 2022 7:11 pm

JonFromVA wrote:lol, I bet there's someone in the Cavs organization with each of these viewpoints on what to do with Collin, but IMO I suspect what they most want to do is retain asset value.

Collin was a 24ppg scorer that's currently worth very little and that's a problem for him and the Cavs.

Even to prove he's worth $25M/year to another team, he may feel he has to start and that could very well be a sticking point for the Cavs and their over-abundance of SG sized SG's.

Worth noting that DG didn't sign a max extension at midnight, and presumably Altman, Gansey, and JBB were camping on his doorstep to make the offer when free-agency opened. Given he now shares an agent with Collin, who knows what if any manipulations are happening.

Anyway, the needle to thread here is to somehow keep everyone happy, let them play enough to show their value, and eventually sort what needs to be sorted out via trades; but getting from here to there could be a very rocky road.


Supposedly, Garland has asked his team not to seek a max deal to ensure that they would have enough to retain LeVert and Sexton as well as get Rubio.
Read on Twitter

Maybe he's waiting to sign his contract based on whether all 3 happen or not. If they do, he'll take less than a max, if not he'll take the max offer?
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Re: 2022 off season 

Post#154 » by toooskies » Fri Jul 1, 2022 7:21 pm

If JBB is ever going to extend his rotation, the first place it would happen is by working a 4th big man into the 4/5 spots.

I think using RoLo against teams that stay big with their second units (i.e. the Knicks with Hartenstein now) would be a good way to keep him engaged and give him a consistent role without committing too many minutes to him. Mobley can take the backup C minutes against small-ball lineups.
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Re: 2022 off season 

Post#155 » by JujitsuFlip » Fri Jul 1, 2022 7:23 pm

I like the Rubio and Lopez deals, Cavs are done, guess Mobley's brother will go on a 2 way or maybe a domestic stash. Outside of trades, the roster is set.

Garland/Sexton/Rubio (until he heals)
OA/Okoro/LeVert/Cedi
Markkanen/Stevens/Windler
Mobley/Love/Wade
Allen/Lopez

I understand LeVert won't be that low on the depth chart, he may start the season at back-up PG, if Sexton still isn't ready to go. I just can't envision any combo of LeVert and Sexton seeing the floor simultaneously but JBB has always been eccentric with his rotation.
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Re: 2022 off season 

Post#156 » by JonFromVA » Fri Jul 1, 2022 7:28 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:lol, I bet there's someone in the Cavs organization with each of these viewpoints on what to do with Collin, but IMO I suspect what they most want to do is retain asset value.

Collin was a 24ppg scorer that's currently worth very little and that's a problem for him and the Cavs.

Even to prove he's worth $25M/year to another team, he may feel he has to start and that could very well be a sticking point for the Cavs and their over-abundance of SG sized SG's.

Worth noting that DG didn't sign a max extension at midnight, and presumably Altman, Gansey, and JBB were camping on his doorstep to make the offer when free-agency opened. Given he now shares an agent with Collin, who knows what if any manipulations are happening.

Anyway, the needle to thread here is to somehow keep everyone happy, let them play enough to show their value, and eventually sort what needs to be sorted out via trades; but getting from here to there could be a very rocky road.


Supposedly, Garland has asked his team not to seek a max deal to ensure that they would have enough to retain LeVert and Sexton as well as get Rubio.
Read on Twitter

Maybe he's waiting to sign his contract based on whether all 3 happen or not. If they do, he'll take less than a max, if not he'll take the max offer?


Would be nice, but that that Tim Larson twitter account could be a fake, and we may be staring down a Rich Paul power play.
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Re: 2022 off season 

Post#157 » by toooskies » Fri Jul 1, 2022 7:34 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:lol, I bet there's someone in the Cavs organization with each of these viewpoints on what to do with Collin, but IMO I suspect what they most want to do is retain asset value.

Collin was a 24ppg scorer that's currently worth very little and that's a problem for him and the Cavs.

Even to prove he's worth $25M/year to another team, he may feel he has to start and that could very well be a sticking point for the Cavs and their over-abundance of SG sized SG's.

Worth noting that DG didn't sign a max extension at midnight, and presumably Altman, Gansey, and JBB were camping on his doorstep to make the offer when free-agency opened. Given he now shares an agent with Collin, who knows what if any manipulations are happening.

Anyway, the needle to thread here is to somehow keep everyone happy, let them play enough to show their value, and eventually sort what needs to be sorted out via trades; but getting from here to there could be a very rocky road.


Supposedly, Garland has asked his team not to seek a max deal to ensure that they would have enough to retain LeVert and Sexton as well as get Rubio.
Read on Twitter

Maybe he's waiting to sign his contract based on whether all 3 happen or not. If they do, he'll take less than a max, if not he'll take the max offer?


Would be nice, but that that Tim Larson twitter account could be a fake, and we may be staring down a Rich Paul power play.

LeVert isn't a Klutch guy and Rich Paul would probably want him out of the picture to set up Sexton with starting minutes, if it was purely that.
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Re: 2022 off season 

Post#158 » by JonFromVA » Fri Jul 1, 2022 8:06 pm

toooskies wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
Supposedly, Garland has asked his team not to seek a max deal to ensure that they would have enough to retain LeVert and Sexton as well as get Rubio.
Read on Twitter

Maybe he's waiting to sign his contract based on whether all 3 happen or not. If they do, he'll take less than a max, if not he'll take the max offer?


Would be nice, but that that Tim Larson twitter account could be a fake, and we may be staring down a Rich Paul power play.

LeVert isn't a Klutch guy and Rich Paul would probably want him out of the picture to set up Sexton with starting minutes, if it was purely that.


Also, Garland's extension doesn't kick in this season, so it's at least not an immediate impediment to signing anyone.
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Re: 2022 off season 

Post#159 » by JonFromVA » Fri Jul 1, 2022 8:10 pm

Read on Twitter


Hopefully Raul will get the job done until Ricky can play.
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Re: 2022 off season 

Post#160 » by ijspeelman » Fri Jul 1, 2022 8:26 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Read on Twitter


Hopefully Raul will get the job done until Ricky can play.


Decent enough stop-gap as a PG. Makes our guard rotation even more bloated especially if Sexton is coming back. I guess its Sexton, Okoro, and LeVert try-outs until January.

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