2022-23 NBA Season Discussion

[MyUniBroDavis]

Rudy Gobert is a flat out better player than KD.

Is he, ornis he just quieter? A better defender, sure, but KD is also an ATG offensive player with a reasonable track record as number one. The idea that Gobert is clearly superior needs an actual argument.

Especially in a playoff situation I can’t see any team wanting Gobert over KD for a long run

[MartinToVaught]

Did the timberwolves just get fleeced lol that’s what everyone’s saying

It's almost Billy King-level bad. Three unprotected picks, a swap, another first-rounder and the guy they just drafted for a player who's utterly useless on offense outside of being spoonfed with the occasional lob. The only reason it's slightly less bad than that Nets trade is that Gobert isn't washed like KG and Pierce were back then.

[itsxtray]

The Kyrie and KD situation is just a continuation of the bizarre. They somehow think they'll be able to play together somewhere other than Brooklyn? That's not just sage they're smoking.

Kyrie is about the largest collection of red flags in what should be an elite player that I can think of. There's a reason nobody but the Lakers were interested in him, and even then only because they have LeBron to be his handler and only at the mid-level exception. I don't blame the Nets for playing hardball with him, because his lack of commitment to the team was unacceptable and they knew there was nobody interested in him at anything approaching what he thinks he should get.

It's fine that KD values his friendship with Kyrie, but by hitching his career to someone with all those red flags, that's a huge red flag.

Great post. I've soured Durant more than Kyrie. Kyrie is a lunatic. Kyrie established he was lunatic years ago. Durant is his friend, fair enough. But as you said being willing to follow him around or thinking it is management's fault they're pissed at Kyrie shows terrible judgment. It also shows poor basketball IQ. What has Kyrie given the NBA the last 6 yrs?

Only parallel I can think of would if been if Robinson was pissed at management for trading away Rodman.

As littlefinger once said "who's the bigger fool? The madman or the man that tries to reason with him?" Wow, i found somewhere to use this quote lol.

[falcolombardi]

Did the timberwolves just get fleeced lol that’s what everyone’s saying

It's almost Billy King-level bad. Three unprotected picks, a swap, another first-rounder and the guy they just drafted for a player who's utterly useless on offense outside of being spoonfed with the occasional lob. The only reason it's slightly less bad than that Nets trade is that Gobert isn't washed like KG and Pierce were back then.

Gobert, towns and edwards ages compared to garnett and pierce make it really unlikely those picks will be so high as the nets ones

[MartinToVaught]

Did the timberwolves just get fleeced lol that’s what everyone’s saying

It's almost Billy King-level bad. Three unprotected picks, a swap, another first-rounder and the guy they just drafted for a player who's utterly useless on offense outside of being spoonfed with the occasional lob. The only reason it's slightly less bad than that Nets trade is that Gobert isn't washed like KG and Pierce were back then.

Gobert, towns and edwards ages compared to garnett and pierce make it really unlikely those picks will be so high as the nets ones

All it takes is an injury or some locker room drama for it all to go sideways and suddenly those picks start getting a lot more valuable. People thought the Rockets weren't getting anything of value from the Nets not too long ago, and that Nets team had a much higher ceiling on paper than this Wolves team does, and we see how that's turned out.

[falcolombardi]

It's almost Billy King-level bad. Three unprotected picks, a swap, another first-rounder and the guy they just drafted for a player who's utterly useless on offense outside of being spoonfed with the occasional lob. The only reason it's slightly less bad than that Nets trade is that Gobert isn't washed like KG and Pierce were back then.

Gobert, towns and edwards ages compared to garnett and pierce make it really unlikely those picks will be so high as the nets ones

All it takes is an injury or some locker room drama for it all to go sideways and suddenly those picks start getting a lot more valuable. People thought the Rockets weren't getting anything of value from the Nets not too long ago, and that Nets team had a much higher ceiling on paper than this Wolves team does, and we see how that's turned out.

I didnt say the chance was null, it could always go sideways

But the age situation means it will be a possibility rather than a certainty as it was to those nets,garnett was literally 36 when he left boston

Taking a leap as a team often involves risks after all

[Doctor MJ]

Was jeter not just a very good player in a stacked team and a-rod a legitimate all time great?

Are we sure it was not because alex rodriguez was a dominican and jeter an american?

Short answer: Yes and yes.

Now, Jeter was an excellent baseball player to be clear, but he wasn't an MVP level guy. He would not have become anything like the icon he was had he not been on an absolute outlier of a modern baseball dynasty on the biggest sports franchise in American sports history. Among the core group of players there for that whole run, Jeter was the strongest of the field players, good looking, hard working, and seemed to have a clear sense of what not to say in order to be revered rather than judged.

ARod on the other hand had the misfortune of starting with a weak organization, and then being judged for leaving them to go somewhere better, which put two strikes against him...while also developing a Bonds-like reputation for arrogance and selfishness and then testing positive for steroids at a time where the knives were out for all those who dared to try to keep up with what the MLB was letting others do.

If you want to argue that cultural background went into how ARod's personality was perceived compared to Jeter's, I'll certainly listen, but other than that, yeah, you're talking about a textbook case of the worse player landing in the better spot, and that having a profound impact on how the two players would later be perceived.

The racial thingg was my wild guess, i just heard from my dad once (a big yankees fan in mexico where everyone are dodgers fans but that is a different story) that A-rod was a lot better and thar was odd to me since jeter seems to have been the "jordan" of baseball as far as being the face of tge league

I thought the race thinfg may have been a explanation for it

googled up jeter vs a rod and there was some stufd about advanced stats saying jetwr is the most overated fielder ever and that a-rod was put out of the more inportant fielding position to have jeter there

I will freely admit i have all my baseball knowlesge by pure osmosis, dont know nuch about it outside the basics and some big namea

Jeter being seen as the Jordan of his sport in his era is one of the more bizarre things I've ever seen in a team sport. A lot of factors involved in this:

1. As mentioned, Jeter was really lucky.

2. Baseball is a game driven by luck more so than the talent of individuals, so "lucky" here exists on a scale far beyond what we should see as possible in sports like basketball, hockey, or gridiron football (though wouldn't say the same about soccer).

3. Steroids basically killed off most of the top tier baseball talent from being seen as icon-worthy. Back in the late '90s, when the Yankees had their actual dynastic run, the biggest names in baseball were McGwire & Sosa (and it would be Bonds after that), not anyone on the Yankees. But those Yankees, and Jeter & Rivera in particular, were in the process of building a legacy that would last rather than be punctured by needles.

(Shout out to Ken Griffey Jr. who was the guy who had the career arc of best-in-era before the steroids wave really hit and people, so far as I know, have always believed to be clean. The irony is that Griffey's arc gets smashed by injuries right at the time the steroid users take over the sport - ironic because one of the things they always warned us about was that steroids would cause you to be injury prone, yet this was the opposite of how it seemed to play out in baseball in this period.)

[ShotCreator]

Rudy Gobert is a flat out better player than KD.

Is he, ornis he just quieter? A better defender, sure, but KD is also an ATG offensive player with a reasonable track record as number one. The idea that Gobert is clearly superior needs an actual argument.

KD isn’t an ATG offensive player anymore. Like objectively. At least not to me. We’re talking two different Durant’s I think.

After the Achilles injury he’s simply very good. His defense is just done and so is his rim pressure. His raw ability to gain separation is just gone.

Series like his one against Boston is just a preview for the future.

Durant was, worst player in the league bad. James Wiseman bad against Boston. Maybe worse than that. And he was healthy, and had great offensive help. Boston threw simple one-pass away doubles at him and he folded like a chair.


Gobert is flawed but he really is special. His defense scales up mostly as high as elite offense. On a team that can hide his flaws I believe he’s just a no brainer over KD. Minnesota isn’t that team unfortunately.

[tsherkin]

KD isn’t an ATG offensive player anymore. Like objectively. At least not to me. We’re talking two different Durant’s I think.

There is nothing objective about that remark, no. He was a 29.9 ppg, 6.4 apg, 121 ORTG player in the 55 games he played during the RS, and he was a 63.4% TS player during the RS. Consequently, that means your entire argument is predicated on the Boston series, which means it has a dreadful foundation. When an ATG defense sells out to stop a single player, it almost always works. It worked against Lebron, it worked against Kobe, and you aren't hear championing their absence from ATG offensive value. This isn't an argument with substance.

[HeartBreakKid]

Rudy Gobert is a flat out better player than KD.

Is he, ornis he just quieter? A better defender, sure, but KD is also an ATG offensive player with a reasonable track record as number one. The idea that Gobert is clearly superior needs an actual argument.

Especially in a playoff situation I can’t see any team wanting Gobert over KD for a long run

Durant is going to be 34 next season - there isn't any long run for him. Any season now he's going to fall off.

[LukaTheGOAT]

Rudy Gobert is a flat out better player than KD.

Is he, ornis he just quieter? A better defender, sure, but KD is also an ATG offensive player with a reasonable track record as number one. The idea that Gobert is clearly superior needs an actual argument.

KD isn’t an ATG offensive player anymore. Like objectively. At least not to me. We’re talking two different Durant’s I think.

After the Achilles injury he’s simply very good. His defense is just done and so is his rim pressure. His raw ability to gain separation is just gone.

Series like his one against Boston is just a preview for the future.

Durant was, worst player in the league bad. James Wiseman bad against Boston. Maybe worse than that. And he was healthy, and had great offensive help. Boston threw simple one-pass away doubles at him and he folded like a chair.


Gobert is flawed but he really is special. His defense scales up mostly as high as elite offense. On a team that can hide his flaws I believe he’s just a no brainer over KD. Minnesota isn’t that team unfortunately.

What do you think of KD's 2021 performance against the Bucks in the PS? Do you think that it is possible that the Boston series was just an outlier bad outing by him?

[MyUniBroDavis]

Is he, ornis he just quieter? A better defender, sure, but KD is also an ATG offensive player with a reasonable track record as number one. The idea that Gobert is clearly superior needs an actual argument.

Especially in a playoff situation I can’t see any team wanting Gobert over KD for a long run

Durant is going to be 34 next season - there isn't any long run for him. Any season now he's going to fall off.

I meant long playoff run

[falcolombardi]

Is he, ornis he just quieter? A better defender, sure, but KD is also an ATG offensive player with a reasonable track record as number one. The idea that Gobert is clearly superior needs an actual argument.

KD isn’t an ATG offensive player anymore. Like objectively. At least not to me. We’re talking two different Durant’s I think.

After the Achilles injury he’s simply very good. His defense is just done and so is his rim pressure. His raw ability to gain separation is just gone.

Series like his one against Boston is just a preview for the future.

Durant was, worst player in the league bad. James Wiseman bad against Boston. Maybe worse than that. And he was healthy, and had great offensive help. Boston threw simple one-pass away doubles at him and he folded like a chair.


Gobert is flawed but he really is special. His defense scales up mostly as high as elite offense. On a team that can hide his flaws I believe he’s just a no brainer over KD. Minnesota isn’t that team unfortunately.

What do you think of KD's 2021 performance against the Bucks in the PS? Do you think that it is possible that the Boston series was just an outlier bad outing by him?

It HAS to be mentioned that the nets had a better offense in 2022 vs boston that they did in 2021 vs bucks

The "sell out to stop durant and let everyone else try to beat us" strategt boston employed didnt work, nets scored really , really well on them. Boston won a oddly close 4-0 because they destroyed nets defense

For comparision durant much more praised performance in 2021 vs bucks had the nets with a much worse offense (granted irving was hurt too)

If nets vs boston 2022 is what it looks like to force durant into a "outlier bad" offensive performance then the nets dont have too nuch to worry offensively speaking

[MyUniBroDavis]

KD isn’t an ATG offensive player anymore. Like objectively. At least not to me. We’re talking two different Durant’s I think.

After the Achilles injury he’s simply very good. His defense is just done and so is his rim pressure. His raw ability to gain separation is just gone.

Series like his one against Boston is just a preview for the future.

Durant was, worst player in the league bad. James Wiseman bad against Boston. Maybe worse than that. And he was healthy, and had great offensive help. Boston threw simple one-pass away doubles at him and he folded like a chair.


Gobert is flawed but he really is special. His defense scales up mostly as high as elite offense. On a team that can hide his flaws I believe he’s just a no brainer over KD. Minnesota isn’t that team unfortunately.

What do you think of KD's 2021 performance against the Bucks in the PS? Do you think that it is possible that the Boston series was just an outlier bad outing by him?

It HAS to be mentioned that the nets had a better offense in 2022 vs boston that they did in 2021 vs bucks

The "sell out to stop durant and let everyone else try to beat us" strategt boston employed didnt work, nets scored really , really well on them. Boston won a oddly close 4-0 because they destroyed nets defense

For comparision durant much more praised performance in 2021 vs bucks had the nets with a much worse offense (granted irving was hurt too)

If nets vs boston 2022 is what it looks like to force durant into a "outlier bad" offensive performance then the nets dont have too nuch to worry offensively speaking

I’m pretty sure their offense was good because of them going off with Durant off the floor

I agree saying durants just a really good offensive player is wild tho, and it’s not as if the nets countered the stunts on drives all too much

[jalengreen]

What do you think of KD's 2021 performance against the Bucks in the PS? Do you think that it is possible that the Boston series was just an outlier bad outing by him?

It HAS to be mentioned that the nets had a better offense in 2022 vs boston that they did in 2021 vs bucks

The "sell out to stop durant and let everyone else try to beat us" strategt boston employed didnt work, nets scored really , really well on them. Boston won a oddly close 4-0 because they destroyed nets defense

For comparision durant much more praised performance in 2021 vs bucks had the nets with a much worse offense (granted irving was hurt too)

If nets vs boston 2022 is what it looks like to force durant into a "outlier bad" offensive performance then the nets dont have too nuch to worry offensively speaking

I’m pretty sure their offense was good because of them going off with Durant off the floor

I agree saying durants just a really good offensive player is wild tho, and it’s not as if the nets countered the stunts on drives all too much

was it really? he played 44 minutes per game so doesnt seem super likely but maybe im wrong

[MyUniBroDavis]

It HAS to be mentioned that the nets had a better offense in 2022 vs boston that they did in 2021 vs bucks

The "sell out to stop durant and let everyone else try to beat us" strategt boston employed didnt work, nets scored really , really well on them. Boston won a oddly close 4-0 because they destroyed nets defense

For comparision durant much more praised performance in 2021 vs bucks had the nets with a much worse offense (granted irving was hurt too)

If nets vs boston 2022 is what it looks like to force durant into a "outlier bad" offensive performance then the nets dont have too nuch to worry offensively speaking

I’m pretty sure their offense was good because of them going off with Durant off the floor

I agree saying durants just a really good offensive player is wild tho, and it’s not as if the nets countered the stunts on drives all too much

was it really? he played 44 minutes per game so doesnt seem super likely but maybe im wrong

Off rtg was
113.4 on the court, 132.1 off the court, per NBA.com

I don’t think it’s indicative on Durant, but I do think the Celtics did great on him.

[falcolombardi]

I’m pretty sure their offense was good because of them going off with Durant off the floor

I agree saying durants just a really good offensive player is wild tho, and it’s not as if the nets countered the stunts on drives all too much

was it really? he played 44 minutes per game so doesnt seem super likely but maybe im wrong

Off rtg was
113.4 on the court, 132.1 off the court, per NBA.com

I don’t think it’s indicative on Durant, but I do think the Celtics did great on him.

113.4 is around a +6 relative offensive rating against boston defense

Their offense vs bucks last year was 108 for example

[ardee]

If Kyrie comes to LA, we could have 8 50 win teams in the West next year.

Warriors
Mavs
Grizzlies
Suns
Clippers
Lakers
Timberwolves
Nuggets

Absolutely wild. Probably 4-5 in the East too depending on where Durant goes.

[ardee]

I think the best landing spot for Durant if he cares about his legacy is Chicago.

The Nets can get LaVine as compensation. But that would leave the Bulls with a Ball-Caruso-DeMar-Durant-Vucevic starting 5 that IMO can contend with anyone in the East.

If he could lead the Bulls to their first post-Jordan title it would do wonders for his reputation.

Knowing him though he's going to take the easy way out and end up in Phoenix.

[jalengreen]

I think the best landing spot for Durant if he cares about his legacy is Chicago.

The Nets can get LaVine as compensation. But that would leave the Bulls with a Ball-Caruso-DeMar-Durant-Vucevic starting 5 that IMO can contend with anyone in the East.

If he could lead the Bulls to their first post-Jordan title it would do wonders for his reputation.

Knowing him though he's going to take the easy way out and end up in Phoenix.

I'm not sure it really matters where he wants to end up anyway.