Knicks Free Agency Frenzy Part Deux

[Reign23]

If no other moves this summer and we keep Randle & Fournier, then Leon, WWW, Thibs, etc all gotta go before next draft. Get a real Gm in this bytch

bro you need draft assets to dump those guys and they are not willing to do that at the moment. which is perfectly fine to me.
I would love to dump Randle as much as anybody, but going into the season with him and look if he plays better then last year isn't the worst idea right now. if there is a possibilty to straight out trade him for an expiring or so, we should be all over it. no doubt.

but overall, the FO did a very good job this offseason. I don't know how people can see it differenty..
sure we didn't get a mega superduper star, but:

- we finally have a good young PG
- we have more future draft picks
- we still have all the young players with potential
- we shipped out 3 vets who have no future with the franchise

[Reign23]

I am not that burned kid that wouldn't give up multiple future picks for a star, but seeing that packages that were paid for Gobert and Murray leaves me a little lukewarm on Mitchell now tbh.

might be harsh, but I think the way would be to put Brunson in the deal come January

[ScienceOfLosing]

If Bobby Portis is getting 4 years 49 million... who could very well be the Bucks starting center... why the fck are the Knicks looking to pay Mitch Rob 4 years 60 million?

I just don't want to lose Mitch for nothing. I want a stretch 5 and we (sort of) just signed one now. I'm still pissed we didn't take Duren - could be a special Center with a shot. Looks like we didn't have to, but at least we still have the pick we got back, downgraded swap.

We have the assets (salaries and picks) to go for a star now. We can include Randle and Fournier in that deal. I think we still try to move one of them to open up the logjam. I don't mind Fournier off the bench, though I'd prefer seeing what Cam can do. Perhaps we give Dallas an Olive Branch with Fournier and ask them to drop the protection on the pick we got from them. Then again, Fournier (And Randle) are going to probably have more value to a playoff team before the deadline but those teams will all be over the cap.

I would have been a whole lot more excited if we kept Duran let Mitch go. We have our money committed now for the next 3-4 years.

Mitch 4/60
Randle/5/117
Brunson 4/104
RJ 5/150 (guessing)
Fournier 4/73

It's over, folks. This is what everyone needs to evaluate. This is our team, minus a few other minor moves. You can love it or hate it, but this is the team we're running with for the next 3-4 years. Then next year, we'll be discussing how much we're going to pay Obi/IQ.

I see your point regarding Duren over Mitch and said as much elsewhere. I think it comes down to timeline with Duren. It is looking Shitzy right now as we didn't need to do it (unless the Burks Noel trade was a hidden part of it.)

I would rather have a cheap Duren on this team than Mitch, but why not go for both? We can always trade Mitch to a playoff team and then develop Duren. This move was a head scratcher. Really, is that 25 pick we got back anything more than a downgraded pick?

[ScienceOfLosing]

I am not that burned kid that wouldn't give up multiple future picks for a star, but seeing that packages that were paid for Gobert and Murray leaves me a little lukewarm on Mitchell now tbh.

might be harsh, but I think the way would be to put Brunson in the deal come January

With Ainge's reputation, how did this happen for a 30 year old no offense center? Honestly, seems like a downgrade on a playoff team. These type of deals make me wonder about back door stuff, collusion, blackmail LOL, etc.

[knickstape21]

I don’t believe that we’re not checking in on Mitchell.

I have a friend who was in the suite at the Rangers game when Mitchell was there. He was telling me that Thibs, Dolan, Quickley, Daboll (yes the Giants coach), and a couple others were all in there essentially recruiting Mitchell in a light manner. Selling New York City and stuff like that is what he overheard.

Probably means nothing, but wanted to share.

[El Poochio]

I don’t believe that we’re not checking in on Mitchell.

I have a friend who was in the suite at the Rangers game when Mitchell was there. He was telling me that Thibs, Dolan, Quickley, Daboll (yes the Giants coach), and a couple others were all in there essentially recruiting Mitchell in a light manner. Selling New York City and stuff like that is what he overheard.

Probably means nothing, but wanted to share.

[thebuzzardman]

That being said :
I can see another guy beating out Evan Fournier in camp : but Thibs the type of guy to look at contract and say hey you make this much you need to do the heavy lifting as the starter , regardless of it’s a good fit or not.

In a way I see it’s fairness but it also would hurt the natural progression of the team .

You have to consider that Fournier is that much better on offense than Grimes or IQ - at the moment, and a veteran, so that goes into Thibs' thinking.

Then again, it's possible that Thibs might value Fournier's scoring punch off the bench in the role Burks used to have until Thibs starting thinking of him as Magic Johnson.

I don't specifically care what the rotation is, other than I wouldn't want to see Cam out of it, since they used a pick to get him, might as well see what he can do to earn a 2nd contract with them. Then again, if another player beats him out in camp, why should he play just because?

Fournier's shooting should play well with Brunson, but same could be said for Grimes or IQ.

DRose/IQ/Grimes/Cam - at least one, and possibly two of those guys are going to be essentially out of the rotation.
People complain about this but it's called having some depth. Yes, I get the Knicks need more better players and less "mediocre" ones, but depth is still good. There's competition and contingency for injury. Then again, Knicks got a better player in Brunson and half the board cried like bitches, so who knows.

If we want to play 5 out for Brunson, should probably run RJ and Mitch off the bench but that isn't happening.

[thebuzzardman]

Brunson/Rose
RJ/IQ
Cam/Fournier
Randle/Obi
Mitch/Hartenstein/Randle

Would like to play Cam but feels like defenders will shade in

Brunson/Rose
IQ/RJ
Grimes/Cam
Obi/Randle
Hartenstein/Mitch/Randle

There. That's better.

[bearadonisdna]

That being said :
I can see another guy beating out Evan Fournier in camp : but Thibs the type of guy to look at contract and say hey you make this much you need to do the heavy lifting as the starter , regardless of it’s a good fit or not.

In a way I see it’s fairness but it also would hurt the natural progression of the team .

You have to consider that Fournier is that much better on offense than Grimes or IQ - at the moment, and a veteran, so that goes into Thibs' thinking.

Then again, it's possible that Thibs might value Fournier's scoring punch off the bench in the role Burks used to have until Thibs starting thinking of him as Magic Johnson.

I don't specifically care what the rotation is, other than I wouldn't want to see Cam out of it, since they used a pick to get him, might as well see what he can do to earn a 2nd contract with them. Then again, if another player beats him out in camp, why should he play just because?

Fournier's shooting should play well with Brunson, but same could be said for Grimes or IQ.

DRose/IQ/Grimes/Cam - at least one, and possibly two of those guys are going to be essentially out of the rotation.
People complain about this but it's called having some depth. Yes, I get the Knicks need more better players and less "mediocre" ones, but depth is still good. There's competition and contingency for injury. Then again, Knicks got a better player in Brunson and half the board cried like bitches, so who knows.

If we want to play 5 out for Brunson, should probably run RJ and Mitch off the bench but that isn't happening.

God bless your soul .
, I’ve got no basketball discussion left inside me for this team .
Did you read what I wrote : I’m worried about guys getting starting jobs based on contract not basketball merit .
Am no good right now.

[thebuzzardman]

That being said :
I can see another guy beating out Evan Fournier in camp : but Thibs the type of guy to look at contract and say hey you make this much you need to do the heavy lifting as the starter , regardless of it’s a good fit or not.

In a way I see it’s fairness but it also would hurt the natural progression of the team .

You have to consider that Fournier is that much better on offense than Grimes or IQ - at the moment, and a veteran, so that goes into Thibs' thinking.

Then again, it's possible that Thibs might value Fournier's scoring punch off the bench in the role Burks used to have until Thibs starting thinking of him as Magic Johnson.

I don't specifically care what the rotation is, other than I wouldn't want to see Cam out of it, since they used a pick to get him, might as well see what he can do to earn a 2nd contract with them. Then again, if another player beats him out in camp, why should he play just because?

Fournier's shooting should play well with Brunson, but same could be said for Grimes or IQ.

DRose/IQ/Grimes/Cam - at least one, and possibly two of those guys are going to be essentially out of the rotation.
People complain about this but it's called having some depth. Yes, I get the Knicks need more better players and less "mediocre" ones, but depth is still good. There's competition and contingency for injury. Then again, Knicks got a better player in Brunson and half the board cried like bitches, so who knows.

If we want to play 5 out for Brunson, should probably run RJ and Mitch off the bench but that isn't happening.

God bless your soul .
, I’ve got no basketball discussion left inside me for this team .
Did you read what I wrote : I’m worried about guys getting starting jobs based on contract not basketball merit .
Am no good right now.

It's my am caffeine enthusiasm to talk about it.

Fournier is going to play no matter what, it's just where. He brings that secondary or tertiary passing, with some shot creation and of course passing. That defense though. So, he starts or comes off bench, but he'll play. Maybe the Burks role before he was PG?

Then it's IQ or Rose or IQ or Grimes or Grimes or Cam

There's a legit argument for Hartenstein over Mitch to spread the floor better for Brunson etc, but I think Knicks can work this out with how they do substitutions.

[Chanel Bomber]

You have to consider that Fournier is that much better on offense than Grimes or IQ - at the moment, and a veteran, so that goes into Thibs' thinking.

Then again, it's possible that Thibs might value Fournier's scoring punch off the bench in the role Burks used to have until Thibs starting thinking of him as Magic Johnson.

I don't specifically care what the rotation is, other than I wouldn't want to see Cam out of it, since they used a pick to get him, might as well see what he can do to earn a 2nd contract with them. Then again, if another player beats him out in camp, why should he play just because?

Fournier's shooting should play well with Brunson, but same could be said for Grimes or IQ.

DRose/IQ/Grimes/Cam - at least one, and possibly two of those guys are going to be essentially out of the rotation.
People complain about this but it's called having some depth. Yes, I get the Knicks need more better players and less "mediocre" ones, but depth is still good. There's competition and contingency for injury. Then again, Knicks got a better player in Brunson and half the board cried like bitches, so who knows.

If we want to play 5 out for Brunson, should probably run RJ and Mitch off the bench but that isn't happening.

God bless your soul .
, I’ve got no basketball discussion left inside me for this team .
Did you read what I wrote : I’m worried about guys getting starting jobs based on contract not basketball merit .
Am no good right now.

It's my am caffeine enthusiasm to talk about it.

Fournier is going to play no matter what, it's just where. He brings that secondary or tertiary passing, with some shot creation and of course passing. That defense though. So, he starts or comes off bench, but he'll play. Maybe the Burks role before he was PG?

Then it's IQ or Rose or IQ or Grimes or Grimes or Cam

There's a legit argument for Hartenstein over Mitch to spread the floor better for Brunson etc, but I think Knicks can work this out with how they do substitutions.

Interestingly enough (or not), Brunson's scoring efficiency was higher in the regular season with Dallas's rim-runner (Dwight Powell) on the court (60.3 TS% with Powell, 56.3 TS% without). That trend reversed in the playoffs, which isn't entirely surprising.

The worry for me is (surprise, surprise) the lack of spacing coming from the wings if defenses feel they can sag off RJ and Randle to crowd the paint.

[bearadonisdna]

You have to consider that Fournier is that much better on offense than Grimes or IQ - at the moment, and a veteran, so that goes into Thibs' thinking.

Then again, it's possible that Thibs might value Fournier's scoring punch off the bench in the role Burks used to have until Thibs starting thinking of him as Magic Johnson.

I don't specifically care what the rotation is, other than I wouldn't want to see Cam out of it, since they used a pick to get him, might as well see what he can do to earn a 2nd contract with them. Then again, if another player beats him out in camp, why should he play just because?

Fournier's shooting should play well with Brunson, but same could be said for Grimes or IQ.

DRose/IQ/Grimes/Cam - at least one, and possibly two of those guys are going to be essentially out of the rotation.
People complain about this but it's called having some depth. Yes, I get the Knicks need more better players and less "mediocre" ones, but depth is still good. There's competition and contingency for injury. Then again, Knicks got a better player in Brunson and half the board cried like bitches, so who knows.

If we want to play 5 out for Brunson, should probably run RJ and Mitch off the bench but that isn't happening.

God bless your soul .
, I’ve got no basketball discussion left inside me for this team .
Did you read what I wrote : I’m worried about guys getting starting jobs based on contract not basketball merit .
Am no good right now.

It's my am caffeine enthusiasm to talk about it.

Fournier is going to play no matter what, it's just where. He brings that secondary or tertiary passing, with some shot creation and of course passing. That defense though. So, he starts or comes off bench, but he'll play. Maybe the Burks role before he was PG?

Then it's IQ or Rose or IQ or Grimes or Grimes or Cam

There's a legit argument for Hartenstein over Mitch to spread the floor better for Brunson etc, but I think Knicks can work this out with how they do substitutions.

IQ or Rose :my pick Rose easily
|Can easily see a 3 man guard rotation with Brunson , RJB, Rose.

IQ or Grimes: My pick Grimes
| More typical 2g archetype . But don’t see him playing much. Quickly practically the 3rd pointguard .

Grimes or Cam : My pick Cam
| Under Thib tutelage I feel can unearth the defender he could be in his draft profile. Lengthy Paul George like type of guy. Would be great to see a Wiggins like defensive jump from him . Was a dangerous bench threat for Atlanta until he wasnt . Playing behind guys he might even be better than , Hunter , Huerter , gallo , even bog was weak for awhile .

[thebuzzardman]

God bless your soul .
, I’ve got no basketball discussion left inside me for this team .
Did you read what I wrote : I’m worried about guys getting starting jobs based on contract not basketball merit .
Am no good right now.

It's my am caffeine enthusiasm to talk about it.

Fournier is going to play no matter what, it's just where. He brings that secondary or tertiary passing, with some shot creation and of course passing. That defense though. So, he starts or comes off bench, but he'll play. Maybe the Burks role before he was PG?

Then it's IQ or Rose or IQ or Grimes or Grimes or Cam

There's a legit argument for Hartenstein over Mitch to spread the floor better for Brunson etc, but I think Knicks can work this out with how they do substitutions.

Interestingly enough (or not), Brunson's scoring efficiency was higher in the regular season with Dallas's rim-runner (Dwight Powell) on the court (60.3 TS% with Powell, 56.3 TS% without). That trend reversed in the playoffs, which isn't entirely surprising.

The worry for me is (surprise, surprise) the lack of spacing coming from the wings if defenses feel they can sag off RJ and Randle to crowd the paint.

RJ's overall % is decent enough. So, in that case, since RJ isn't really catch and shoot dead eye reliable, is I guess teams will chance sagging off and some games it really hurts them and others it works. Randle I figure shoots a bit better, splitting the difference between the last 2 seasons, and it goes the same way.

I'd think there are sets and plays that can mitigate this SOME, but not sure Thibs will do it.

[FrozenEnvelope]

I've decided I'm not about that 3 unprotected first round picks life. Not unless we are getting a franchise level player who almost guarantees those years won't be losing seasons and those unprotected picks won't become high lottery picks. I am all for trading 4/6 first round picks we have in the '23 draft but hell no to unprotected picks. If "star" players like Spidermitch cost too much, I'd pass and wait until a trade and player becomes available that makes sense. This is the new NBA. Star players become available all the time! Wait until one comes along that makes sense and our assets are good enough to acquire him and it doesn't put us at risk to give up a top 5 pick in multiple seasons!

[Chanel Bomber]

It's my am caffeine enthusiasm to talk about it.

Fournier is going to play no matter what, it's just where. He brings that secondary or tertiary passing, with some shot creation and of course passing. That defense though. So, he starts or comes off bench, but he'll play. Maybe the Burks role before he was PG?

Then it's IQ or Rose or IQ or Grimes or Grimes or Cam

There's a legit argument for Hartenstein over Mitch to spread the floor better for Brunson etc, but I think Knicks can work this out with how they do substitutions.

Interestingly enough (or not), Brunson's scoring efficiency was higher in the regular season with Dallas's rim-runner (Dwight Powell) on the court (60.3 TS% with Powell, 56.3 TS% without). That trend reversed in the playoffs, which isn't entirely surprising.

The worry for me is (surprise, surprise) the lack of spacing coming from the wings if defenses feel they can sag off RJ and Randle to crowd the paint.

RJ's overall % is decent enough. So, in that case, since RJ isn't really catch and shoot dead eye reliable, is I guess teams will chance sagging off and some games it really hurts them and others it works. Randle I figure shoots a bit better, splitting the difference between the last 2 seasons, and it goes the same way.

I'd think there are sets and plays that can mitigate this SOME, but not sure Thibs will do it.

If they can shoot in the 37-40% range from 3, it will change the entire offense, and allow Brunson to cook in the paint. I'm not optimistic, but it did happen once in the empty-arenas season.

[blueNorange]

tl'dr

brunson is good -- anything from villanova is good.

[WargamesX]

tl'dr

brunson is good -- anything from villanova is good.

The front office believes this as well and has taken runner on guys from their before Spellman and Arcidiacono plus Leon tried to get Wright initially for this job too. I wouldn’t be surprised if they incorporate more of that motion offense with the Knicks this year. To the point I wouldn’t be surprised if they get more Villanova guys if they become available.

[DaGawd]

I went to Villanova in my 2k mycareer

[Gravy]

FO could be targeting someone in next year's draft like they did with Ivey. They wont tell us a year in advance we just have to wait.

[Fury]

My middle name is Villanova