Knicks Free Agency Frenzy Part Deux

[F N 11]

I don't love the idea of a Brunson/Mitchell backcourt, especially if RJ is going out and Fournier is staying, that perimeter defense is gonna suck so hard

And it depends on what specifically the Jazz would want from us

I would rather use Randle as a trade piece than RJ, but I do think Mitchell is good enough that I'd send out RJ for him, of course depending on what else the Jazz want

If it's a thing where they Jazz want all our youth and picks to go along with RJ, then I'd probably step back because you're essentially locking yourself into a Brunson/Mitchell/Randle core with no likely avenues to get pieces around them to support them going forward

Quick and Obi could go, I think Quick would have a hard time finding a role with two other small guards who need minutes, and since we'd be committing to Randle, that means Obi also has a limited role with us. I'd want to keep Grimes, I think he's sort of the perfect complimentary guy, he can play next to either Brunson or Mitchell and in some cases both but him going isn't a deal breaker. Cam is one of those guys who the idea of is better than the actual player, so I would be fine letting him go as well

I guess basically I don't have anyone on the untouchable list, and while I'd prefer to keep RJ to pair with Mitchell over any other young player, I understand he's also our most valuable trade piece and I'd be fine with sending him out, but if they're asking for all the above plus picks, I don't think that's worth it.

I’d still do it and then look to upgrade with a wing defender going forward. Either in trade or draft 4 of them or something. Don’t have to complete the puzzle in one summer but would be nice to get a couple pieces

Jazz had no problems long as they had an anchor and we do as well. Not many scoring defending all stars are out there to add to this team.

I rather get first half defensive RJ again and have a potent offense. Mitchell CAN play defense. Idk what made him stop in Utah but under Thibs he will be back.

[DOT]

I’d still do it and then look to upgrade with a wing defender going forward. Either in trade or draft 4 of them or something. Don’t have to complete the puzzle in one summer but would be nice to get a couple pieces

Well that's what I'm saying though

It's not a couple pieces, it's one piece, and that's all our assets

If we give all our draft picks, then we can't draft someone, and if we trade all our assets, we have nothing to trade for a guy

Plus, we'd have 95 million locked up in just Brunson/Mitchell/Randle/Mitch, if you include Fournier that brings us to 113 million which leaves us with 10 million to sign a bench, and that's not even that great of a starting lineup to begin with

That's what I'm talking about, if we trade everything for Mitchell, then we're not in a position to properly build around him. You don't need to complete the puzzle in one summer but you have to at least finish the outline and have enough pieces to fill it in

This approach of "player good, trade whatever it takes to get them" always backfires on teams that don't plan ahead. It'd be a similar situation to Melo where he was really good for us but because we didn't plan ahead, we were never able to support him

I know you're just trying to troll out responses, but that's how it is. If we trade for Mitchell, we need to have the assets to build a supporting cast around him. If we can do that, then we should trade for him, if we can't keep enough assets then we shouldn't. Plain and simple.

[robillionaire]

I’d still do it and then look to upgrade with a wing defender going forward. Either in trade or draft 4 of them or something. Don’t have to complete the puzzle in one summer but would be nice to get a couple pieces

Well that's what I'm saying though

It's not a couple pieces, it's one piece, and that's all our assets

If we give all our draft picks, then we can't draft someone, and if we trade all our assets, we have nothing to trade for a guy

Plus, we'd have 95 million locked up in just Brunson/Mitchell/Randle/Mitch, if you include Fournier that brings us to 113 million which leaves us with 10 million to sign a bench, and that's not even that great of a starting lineup to begin with

That's what I'm talking about, if we trade everything for Mitchell, then we're not in a position to properly build around him. You don't need to complete the puzzle in one summer but you have to at least finish the outline and have enough pieces to fill it in

This approach of "player good, trade whatever it takes to get them" always backfires on teams that don't plan ahead. It'd be a similar situation to Melo where he was really good for us but because we didn't plan ahead, we were never able to support him

I know you're just trying to troll out responses, but that's how it is. If we trade for Mitchell, we need to have the assets to build a supporting cast around him. If we can do that, then we should trade for him, if we can't keep enough assets then we shouldn't. Plain and simple.

How am I trying to troll out responses, I just gave a genuine basketball opinion

We have 4 incoming firsts from other teams and we are trying to win, we should do something with them, not an outrageous premise by any means

[sol537]

The most I’d give up for Spida:

RJ
Obi
Cam
Rose (routed to 3rd team)
Fournier (routed to 3rd team)
2023 NY 1st
2023 Dal 1st
2025 Pick Swap
One Additional Conditional 1st (from the recent trade)

[robillionaire]

I mean why are they stockpiling all these picks when they refuse to actually use the picks to draft anybody and all the free agents are signing extensions and the one that becomes available they want to pretend like they’re too cheap to make a trade, I don’t have a clue what the direction or plan is unless they know something about someone becoming available that we don’t

[SARGO127]

The most I’d give up for Spida:

RJ
Obi
Cam
Rose (routed to 3rd team)
Fournier (routed to 3rd team)
2023 NY 1st
2023 Dal 1st
2025 Pick Swap
One Additional Conditional 1st (from the recent trade)

Um??

[robillionaire]

The most I’d give up for Spida:

RJ
Obi
Cam
Rose (routed to 3rd team)
Fournier (routed to 3rd team)
2023 NY 1st
2023 Dal 1st
2025 Pick Swap
One Additional Conditional 1st (from the recent trade)

Um??

jazz would hang up

[Deeeez Knicks]

I mean why are they stockpiling all these picks when they refuse to actually use the picks to draft anybody and all the free agents are signing extensions and the one that becomes available they want to pretend like they’re too cheap to make a trade, I don’t have a clue what the direction or plan is unless they know something about someone becoming available that we don’t

I think it’s just mind games from the Knicks and Jazz thru the media. Don’t really believe a lot of those reports.

[Chanel Bomber]

Just another "RJ sucks" post

RJ and Randle suck.

So yes, it's something that's inevitably going to come up when discussing roster construction.

You could make the same comment but in reverse about uh, "RJ is great" for any other poster who preaches extending RJ, or building around him or with him for the long-term future.

The difference is my position is informed by overwhelming statistical evidence, and theirs is based on nothing but wishful thinking.

I am glad the Knicks traded KP before maxing him out. I thought the Knicks should have traded Randle before extending him. One day you will figure out it was never personal.

I hope that all RJ fans (including me) are coming at you all season when he looks great.

What's the statistical standard for "looking great"?

Because some people have argued that he "looked great" this past season even though no advanced impact metric painted him as a net positive (on either end), and he was in the bottom of the league in efficiency as primarily a scorer.

So I'm skeptical of these subjective assessments.

Therefore, are you expecting him to be efficient scoring the ball next season? Are you expecting him to have a tangible impact on defense that can be measured by defensive RAPM, or defensive RAPTOR? Do you expect him to make plays for his teammates relative to his usage? All of the above? Do you expect the Knicks to make the playoffs thanks to his contributions?

[Reign23]

RJ and Randle suck.

So yes, it's something that's inevitably going to come up when discussing roster construction.

You could make the same comment but in reverse about uh, "RJ is great" for any other poster who preaches extending RJ, or building around him or with him for the long-term future.

The difference is my position is informed by overwhelming statistical evidence, and theirs is based on nothing but wishful thinking.

I am glad the Knicks traded KP before maxing him out. I thought the Knicks should have traded Randle before extending him. One day you will figure out it was never personal.

I hope that all RJ fans (including me) are coming at you all season when he looks great.

What's the statistical standard for "looking great"?

Because some people have argued that he "looked great" this past season even though no advanced impact metric painted him as a net positive (on either end), and he was in the bottom of the league in efficiency as primarily a scorer.

So I'm skeptical of these subjective assessments.

Therefore, are you expecting him to be efficient scoring the ball next season? Are you expecting him to have a tangible impact on defense that can be measured by defensive RAPM, or defensive RAPTOR? Do you expect him to make plays for his teammates relative to his usage? All of the above? Do you expect the Knicks to make the playoffs thanks to his contributions?

yes / yes / yes / yes / possible

[sol537]

The most I’d give up for Spida:

RJ
Obi
Cam
Rose (routed to 3rd team)
Fournier (routed to 3rd team)
2023 NY 1st
2023 Dal 1st
2025 Pick Swap
One Additional Conditional 1st (from the recent trade)

Um??

jazz would hang up

Then we move along. RJ and Obi can continue to improve.

[robillionaire]

Um??

jazz would hang up

Then we move along. RJ and Obi can continue to improve.

I think the workings of a deal are there but I think they’d want at least 2 genuine unprotected Knicks picks in the deal

[EricAnderson]

I'm not even remotely thinking title right now. This franchise first needs to establish itself as a stable organization. You don't go from a loser and laughing stock to a contender quickly. I'd be content if this team can string together a couple of winning seasons. It would do so much for the reputation and how the media and FA's view this team.

Worst thing you can do right now is hire someone like Hinkie and tank the next 3 years. You're gonna ruin RJ, Obi and IQ for a 14% chance at maybe getting a star. No thanks. That is not what we need right now or how you build a team.

There is a way less then a 14 percent chance RJ OBI or IQ become a star.

As far as how to build a team there is no one way.

People like you will say “the process” failed when in reality what hurt them was bad trades/drafting the wrong guy. Tanking didn’t hurt them

If they didn’t trade away certain guys like Butler and drafted Tatum they’d be a dynasty.

Tanking didn’t hurt Embiids career because he’s a great player.

I know you’re thinking you gotta build organically like GS but they had a top 10 all time player, two of the greatest shooters ever and one of the best role players ever.. we have nothing close to that.

[Chanel Bomber]

I hope that all RJ fans (including me) are coming at you all season when he looks great.

What's the statistical standard for "looking great"?

Because some people have argued that he "looked great" this past season even though no advanced impact metric painted him as a net positive (on either end), and he was in the bottom of the league in efficiency as primarily a scorer.

So I'm skeptical of these subjective assessments.

Therefore, are you expecting him to be efficient scoring the ball next season? Are you expecting him to have a tangible impact on defense that can be measured by defensive RAPM, or defensive RAPTOR? Do you expect him to make plays for his teammates relative to his usage? All of the above? Do you expect the Knicks to make the playoffs thanks to his contributions?

yes / yes / yes / yes / possible

Then we shall see.

I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that he trends back towards becoming a neutral defender next year. And hopefully he passes the ball more and plays less selfishly with a player who commands respect running the offense (the point about making plays).

I expect the scoring efficiency to remain below-average, but hopefully it trends back towards mere mediocrity and doesn't stall in the bottom-of-the-league zone.

If the Knicks don't trade him this summer to make the most of the asset, I think it's very important that he's held accountable on both ends next season, and that he is reined back in as a role player who is judged based on his efficiency and his defense. That cannot happen if you give him a contract extension this summer. Money breeds entitlement, and discontent - see KP. So make him earn it.

[DaGawd]

Trade for Mitchell, Bring back Melo on the MLE and the off season is complete

[TheGreenArrow]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[Deeeez Knicks]

If Ainge trades Mitchell, I am not even sure how much interest he would have in RJ. He will mostly try a full rebuild thru the draft so may not really want to pay RJ.

[robillionaire]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

wow RJ is on the trading block that’s crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[EricAnderson]

If Ainge trades Mitchell, I am not even sure how much interest he would have in RJ. He will mostly try a full rebuild thru the draft so may not really want to pay RJ.

He may not want him because maybe he doesn’t think much of him as a player but I’m pretty sure he’s not thinking that if they get RJ he’s too good for your team to tank with him lol.

[F N 11]

Fake rumors from late last night wow.