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Next move

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shrink
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Re: Next move 

Post#41 » by shrink » Sun Jul 3, 2022 2:29 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
winforlose wrote:
TwolvesFanRome wrote:And so...now? We're done or we will try to add sonething else? And what?


We are required to have at least 13 players. Even then we must go up to 14 within a time period (drawing a blank on the specifics of that period.) We also need to sign our two way players. We could also try and trade Naz. The problem with that is he doesn’t make much. With salary matching we can only take back around 2.5 million. I figure a backup PG, backup PF, Minott and Knight. Or Minott and backup PF and then Wright and Knight on two way deals.

We are just under $7 million under the lux right? If we use the BAE which is $4 something million would adding the required additional players push us into the lux or not? I'm confused about this.

Ok, a couple things that might clear it up.

The minimum active roster limit is basically 13 players, if you have 2 two-way players (and you keep them active). Two way players do not count towards the cap.

It is easier than ever to field a competitive team now with 13 salaried players, because we now have two-way players. Even as we close in on the lux threshold, you may still see MIN still use BAE, and not fill the 15th spot (or we could sign a third two-way player). Later in the season, if injuries are starting to nag, you could see a team like this sign 10-day players. They count towards the cap as a vet min player, but only for like 1/25th, since that is the fraction of the season they are playing, and help keep a team under the lux.

I hope that helps a little.
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Re: Next move 

Post#42 » by KGdaBom » Sun Jul 3, 2022 3:36 pm

shrink wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
winforlose wrote:
We are required to have at least 13 players. Even then we must go up to 14 within a time period (drawing a blank on the specifics of that period.) We also need to sign our two way players. We could also try and trade Naz. The problem with that is he doesn’t make much. With salary matching we can only take back around 2.5 million. I figure a backup PG, backup PF, Minott and Knight. Or Minott and backup PF and then Wright and Knight on two way deals.

We are just under $7 million under the lux right? If we use the BAE which is $4 something million would adding the required additional players push us into the lux or not? I'm confused about this.

Ok, a couple things that might clear it up.

The minimum active roster limit is basically 13 players, if you have 2 two-way players (and you keep them active). Two way players do not count towards the cap.

It is easier than ever to field a competitive team now with 13 salaried players, because we now have two-way players. Even as we close in on the lux threshold, you may still see MIN still use BAE, and not fill the 15th spot (or we could sign a third two-way player). Later in the season, if injuries are starting to nag, you could see a team like this sign 10-day players. They count towards the cap as a vet min player, but only for like 1/25th, since that is the fraction of the season they are playing, and help keep a team under the lux.

I hope that helps a little.

I'm not even sure how many players we have right now. 13? However, it seems like using the full BAE is no problem and we can stay out of lux. Thanks.
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Re: Next move 

Post#43 » by winforlose » Sun Jul 3, 2022 3:42 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
shrink wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:We are just under $7 million under the lux right? If we use the BAE which is $4 something million would adding the required additional players push us into the lux or not? I'm confused about this.

Ok, a couple things that might clear it up.

The minimum active roster limit is basically 13 players, if you have 2 two-way players (and you keep them active). Two way players do not count towards the cap.

It is easier than ever to field a competitive team now with 13 salaried players, because we now have two-way players. Even as we close in on the lux threshold, you may still see MIN still use BAE, and not fill the 15th spot (or we could sign a third two-way player). Later in the season, if injuries are starting to nag, you could see a team like this sign 10-day players. They count towards the cap as a vet min player, but only for like 1/25th, since that is the fraction of the season they are playing, and help keep a team under the lux.

I hope that helps a little.

I'm not even sure how many players we have right now. 13? However, it seems like using the full BAE is no problem and we can stay out of lux. Thanks.


This list picks positions for guys who can play multiple. It is being done to show you your answer.

PG: Dlo, JMAC, Moore
SG: Ant, Nowell, Forbes
SF: MCD, Prince
PF: KAT, KA
C: Rudy, Naz

Not yet signed: Minott, QO extended to Knight.

If we turn Minott into a two way and use Knight as the other two way, we have two open spots on the main roster to get to 14. We keep 15 for the buyout market and hope we are good enough to get serious interest.

BAE plus one minimum puts us less than a million under the tax. From there, a 10 day or prorated contract signed very late in the season gets us to 15 (for the playoffs.)
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Re: Next move 

Post#44 » by DaMplsKid » Sun Jul 3, 2022 4:32 pm

TwolvesFanRome wrote:And which players (now FA) can be realistic names ?


I want us to bring in some attitude nastiness type of player. Some who gets under the skin of the other team and won’t back down. Bev was very good at this and maybe a Rondo or Dennis Schroder?
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Re: Next move 

Post#45 » by moss_is_1 » Sun Jul 3, 2022 5:32 pm

DaMplsKid wrote:
TwolvesFanRome wrote:And which players (now FA) can be realistic names ?


I want us to bring in some attitude nastiness type of player. Some who gets under the skin of the other team and won’t back down. Bev was very good at this and maybe a Rondo or Dennis Schroder?

Rondo I wouldn't trust in the locker room.

Shroeder I wouldn't mind, I think he was good for the Lakers title team.

Markieff Morris is definitely that kind of player, if Miami doesn't keep him.
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Re: Next move 

Post#46 » by shrink » Sun Jul 3, 2022 5:53 pm

I’m not sure if I mentioned it here before, but I think we intentionally left enough in the MLE to sign Minott to a Gupta special (a little guaranteed money up front, and a few unguaranteed, team option years), like we did Naz and Nowell,

We lock him in to a team-friendly deal in case he he shows promise, but let him go if he doesn’t. It’s generally a good deal for the second rounder too, minimizing his risk of washing out with nothing by guaranteeing $1-2 mil in Year One.
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Re: Next move 

Post#47 » by BlacJacMac » Sun Jul 3, 2022 6:13 pm

shrink wrote:I’m not sure if I mentioned it here before, but I think we intentionally left enough in the MLE to sign Minott to a Gupta special (a little guaranteed money up front, and a few unguaranteed, team option years), like we did Naz and Nowell,

We lock him in to a team-friendly deal in case he he shows promise, but let him go if he doesn’t. It’s generally a good deal for the second rounder too, minimizing his risk of washing out with nothing by guaranteeing $1-2 mil in Year One.


It's the smartest move on young guys with upside. Getting that 3rd year makes all the difference in the world.
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Re: Next move 

Post#48 » by minimus » Sun Jul 3, 2022 6:36 pm

A few thoughts:

1) lets talk about values, opportunity cost etc. First, Gobert is no doubt a superstar. But he is not a media star for current NBA. So consensus meaning about his value was kind of defined by talking heads, all time low for defensive minded big who consistently makes winning plays, year by year. All stats are confirming this. Second, how many superstar brought here MIN under Glen Taylor? Ever year MIN fans are seeing all FA passing on MIN. Gobert is the first superstar brought here despite all negativie narrative about MIN. He wanted to be traded here, he has chip on his shoulder. Finally, it is not our money, not our business. ARod and Lore are risking it all. They have invented and implemented this plan, they have been in every decision. Lets relax and enjoy the situation. We have been too long through the same cycle: draft-develop-fail. Our new owners want to do something special.

2) we have two bigs who are leaders in TS%. https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ts_pct_career.htm But this is a very controversial topic, because Towns has not showed a killer instincts yet, which are a MUST for shooting players to be a star. We saw multiple times that Karl passed tough shot in the clutch, So being leader in TS% does not necessary mean it translates to wins, but look at all-time TS leaders, guys such as KD, Curry, Harden, Jokic are all there. They kind of figured out. What happened if Towns takes next step? TS% is also very controversial topic for Gobert. UTA built four-out offense and him a focal center of their offense, something that MIN wont do, because we have Towns and Edwards. However, as someone (Krawczynski) reported our FO and coaching staff think that Gobert was misused in UTA. So having two extremely efficient scorers does help, but it depends on how we utilize them. Spread pick-n-roll? Oversized horns? I really have no idea. To me the biggest point are playmakers. Whoever fill this role MUST be able to run this special lineup. DLo, JMac, Ant, Moore, Nowell they all MUST learn have to play with Gobert.

3) now lets talk about offense AND defense. I truly believe that the relation between offense and defense is often underrated. Simple example, in playoff Gobert was killed on switches when DAL played five-out, Towns struggled against LAC tactics when they guarded him with Batum. As result the best player was out and failed defense meant failed offense. Last year UTA and MIN as teams did not have answer, did not have personnel to counter react. This year MIN have all tools: we can try high wall with Anderson and MCD at wings. We can go big with Gobert and Towns. We can use Gobert with deep drop. We have potential to be the most versatile team in NBA, I wonder if he even try to stash Gobert or Towns with second unit, because we have potential to completely destroy opponent flow of the game simply by giving one of our bigs rest and playing second big against weaker opponent. I believe that we should not abandon high wall, we should not abandon deep drop, use it when it makes sense, build defensive versatility on top of this. This year lets say Gobert has problems with certain mismatch, or let say or defense completely fails, this year it does not necessary means that our offense fails. Let me ask you, how many times we saw MIN completely collapse on BOTH ends in 3rd, 4th quarter? Well, we have all tools to be good all four quarters AT LEAST on one end of the floor.

To sum up: on paper we can be successful team, the weakest point to me is execution, lack of experience, because our daily gameplan might be WAY too more omcplicated that usual NBA team. Ideally I'd add a proven playmaker, but we dont have any resorces. Go Wolves!
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Re: Next move 

Post#49 » by winforlose » Sun Jul 3, 2022 7:26 pm

minimus wrote:A few thoughts:

1) lets talk about values, opportunity cost etc. First, Gobert is no doubt a superstar. But he is not a media star for current NBA. So consensus meaning about his value was kind of defined by talking heads, all time low for defensive minded big who consistently makes winning plays, year by year. All stats are confirming this. Second, how many superstar brought here MIN under Glen Taylor? Ever year MIN fans are seeing all FA passing on MIN. Gobert is the first superstar brought here despite all negativie narrative about MIN. He wanted to be traded here, he has chip on his shoulder. Finally, it is not our money, not our business. ARod and Lore are risking it all. They have invented and implemented this plan, they have been in every decision. Let relax and enjoy the situation. We have been too long through the same cycle: draft-develop-fail. Our new owners want to to something special.

2) we have two bigs how are leaders in TS%. https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ts_pct_career.htm But this is a very controversial topic, because Towns has not showed a killer instincts yet, which are a MUST for shooting players to be a star. We saw multiple times that Karl passed tough shot in the clutch, So being leader in TS% deos not necessary mean it translate to wins, but look at all-time TS leaders, guys such as KD, Curry, Harden, Jokic are all there. They kind of figured out. What happened if Towns takes next step? TS% is also very controversial topic for Gobert. UTA built four-out offense and him a focal center of their offense, something that MIN wont do, because we have Towns and Edwards. However, as someone (Krawczynski) reported our FO and coaching staff think that Gobert was misused in UTA. So having two extremely efficient scorers does help, but it depends on how we utilize them. Spread pick-n-roll? Oversized horns? I really have no idea. To me the biggest point are playmakers. Whoever fill this role MUST be able to run this special lineup. DLo, JMac, Ant, Moore, Nowell they all MUST learn have to play with Gobert.

3) now lets talk about offense AND defense. I truly believe that the relation between offense and defense is often underrated. Simple example, in playoff Gobert was killed on switches when DAL played five-out, Towns struggled against LAC tactics when they guarded him with Batum. Last year UTA and MIN as teams did not have answer, did not have personnel to counter react. This year MIN have all tools: we can try high wall with Anderson and MCD at wings. We can go big with Gobert and Towns. We can use Gobert with deep drop. We have potential to be the most versatile team in NBA, I wonder if he even try to stash Gobert or Towns with second unit, because we have potential to completely destroy opponent flow of the game simply by giving one of our bigs rest and playing second big against weaker opponent. I believe that we should not abandon high wall, we should not abandon deep drop, use it when it makes sense, build defensive versatility on top of this.

To sum up: on paper we can be successful team, the weakest point to me is execution, lack of experience, because our daily gameplan might be WAY too more omcplicated that usual NBA team. Ideally I'd add a proven playmaker, but we dont have any resorces. Go Wolves!


1. Superstar doesn’t do the man justice. When he missed time (I believe with Covid,) last year Utah fell more than 20 spots in defensive ranking (in those games, not overall.) Gobert isn’t just someone you tweak your game plan against, he demands a gameplan all by himself. He is the most important defensive big of the last decade and is in the conversation for most important defensive big of all time. His lack of 3 point shooting and his being on a small market Utah team has kept his profile low, but that will change soon enough. The not our money argument is also correct to the extent that our ownership is willing to go full super tax and keep us contending. If not then these deals will cripple us for a decade. We absolutely can and should care about the money.

2. Karl needs to stop worrying about being a good teammate and embrace being a good superstar. I am not saying ball stop and ball hog, those things usually kill us end of game, especially in the playoffs,) but, I am saying he needs to shoot more 3s and be more willing to shoot. KAT must have more shots than Dlo and probably more than Ant. KAT isn’t just a great shooter, he is an efficient shooter. This means he takes shots that he is likely to hit, and he needs to trust that efficiency. Rudy will get plenty of put backs and lob dunks. We might even run 4-5 PNR and PNP. Rudy will be a force in our offense and Finch will make sure of it.

3. Ant or Dlo should always be on the floor. KAT or Gobert should always be on the floor. Barring injury or foul trouble 2 of our big 4 should always be out there. 1 non shooter per lineup is also a good rule. Naz should be paired with Gobert when KAT is on the bench in the preseason so we can test the pair. If it works we should try in the regular season. Nowell should spend time as both a PG and SG, depending on who is on the floor. When paired with Dlo he replaces Ant, when paired with Ant he replaces Dlo. We don’t need to always play 10. Matchups can and should determine how deep in the bench we go on any given night. Most of all, everyone needs to let Finch lead them. The man has done this before. He knows how to coach twin towers and make the bigs compliment each other. He knows how to cover up the weak defenders and exploit matchup advantages. Last year Ant, Dlo, and KAT all ignores Finch and it cost us an early exist in the playoffs. This year everyone MUST listen.

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