Re: Trade Talk (Part Eleven): 2022 Offseason Edition

winforlose · Post #121 » by **winforlose** » Sun Jul 3, 2022 4:12 pm

Mamba4Goat wrote:I’ve been sitting on two Naz trade idea that I like for different reasons and can’t decide how close they are/if they work…
1.) Jalen McDaniels+2nd for Naz
2.) Tre Jones for Naz+2nd(s)

I brought the Jalen trade to the Hornets board, both with and without the 2nd. They think because of Bridges legal issues they need the depth. They also aren’t impressed with Naz. They said we would need to add the pick and even then probably wouldn’t make the deal.

I would say no to Tre Jones. I still think Naz has value. We need a legit backup C if either KAT or Rudy miss games. Naz can also play the 4 with Rudy at the 5. Tre Jones isn’t good enough from distance and he doesn’t seem that much better than McKinley Wright who we could get without giving up Naz. The 2nds aren’t worth it.

shrink · Post #122 » by **shrink** » Sun Jul 3, 2022 5:56 pm

I like him, but after the Djonte Murray trade, I think Tre Jones is the only PG on the Spurs roster!

moss_is_1 · Post #123 » by **moss_is_1** » Sun Jul 3, 2022 7:44 pm

I mentioned this in the free agency thread but thought I'd share it in here as well since it's a trade tidbit.

So if we have until the 6th(when trades would become official), we could technically still work in another team to attempt making our Gobert deal bigger. We sent out roughly 35.4m in the deal and took on Gobert's 38.2m. I believe we can take back ~44.25m in the deal legally. Would there be any player out there around 6m or less? Or we could possibly even throw Naz in at 1.9m to get that number close to 8m. Now we are also fairly close to the lux so that is something to consider as well, while still having the BAE to spend, and Moore/Minott unsigned.

Shrink can you confirm if I'm right in my thinking here?

shrink · Post #124 » by **shrink** » Sun Jul 3, 2022 8:15 pm

$44.35 (it’s 125% + $100,000), but yes, you’re right. And deals are regularly amended after the moratorium, so you’re right there too.

The only question that the front office may have, is whether they want to avoid slipping over the lux this year, since it may lead to repeater taxes in a few years, once our lineup gets much more expensive with Towns and Ant’s salary increases. But hey, the new owners want to make a big splash, and might not worry about that extra penalty in a few years, if they can add someone to the rotation now.

SO_MONEY · Post #125 » by **SO_MONEY** » Sun Jul 3, 2022 8:19 pm

Anyone hear the rumor Bolmaro being included maybe creates a 4.4mil TPE?

shrink · Post #126 » by **shrink** » Sun Jul 3, 2022 8:23 pm

SO_MONEY wrote:Anyone hear the rumor Bolmaro being included maybe creates a 4.4mil TPE?

I did a quick check with the ESPN Trade Machine, and it works, but Bolmaro’s salary is only $2.4, so that’s the size of the TPE

Teams are allowed to design trades however they want. According to ESPN’s numbers, we can legally do two simultaneous trades:

Beverley, Beasley, Vanderbilt for Gobert

Bolmaro for nothing (creates the TPE)

I say we do the first trade as is, and the second trade as Bolmaro, four 1sts and the rights to Kessler for nothing, just to tease him. “Dude, it cost us five firsts to get off your contract!”

——

Edit: I think you meant Vando creates the $4.3 TPE. The same simultaneous trade works swapping Vando for Bolmaro (the $7.2 we add is within the 125% + $100,000), and then we swap Vando for nothing to create the TPE. Btw, I’m using the ESPN Trade Checker because I’m being lazy, but as we get closer to that limit, it might be better to recalculate with next year’s salaries.

moss_is_1 · Post #127 » by **moss_is_1** » Sun Jul 3, 2022 8:34 pm

shrink wrote:$44.35 (it’s 125% + $100,000), but yes, you’re right. And deals are regularly amended after the moratorium, so you’re right there too.

The only question that the front office may have, is whether they want to avoid slipping over the lux this year, since it may lead to repeater taxes in a few years, once our lineup gets much more expensive with Towns and Ant’s salary increases. But hey, the new owners want to make a big splash, and might not worry about that extra penalty in a few years, if they can add someone to the rotation now.

Thanks. I was looking at some players and there isn't a big list, but there's a handful that would be interesting.

Corey Joseph - 5.1m - Pistons
Terrence Davis - 4m - Kings
Trey Lyles - 2.6m - Kings
Alex Len - 3.9m - Kings
KBD - 1.8m - Spurs
Garrett Temple - 5.2m - Pelicans(has a 2 year deal)
Darius Bazely - 4.2m OKC
Kenrich Williams - 2m - OKC
Isaiah Roby - 1.9m OKC
Kenyon Martin jr - 1.7m(2 year deal) - Houston -- I believe he requested a trade as well?
Garrison Matthews - 2m(3 year deal) - Houston
David Nwaba - 5m(2 year deal) - Houston

minimus · Post #128 » by **minimus** » Sun Jul 3, 2022 8:39 pm

moss_is_1 wrote:
shrink wrote:$44.35 (it’s 125% + $100,000), but yes, you’re right. And deals are regularly amended after the moratorium, so you’re right there too.

The only question that the front office may have, is whether they want to avoid slipping over the lux this year, since it may lead to repeater taxes in a few years, once our lineup gets much more expensive with Towns and Ant’s salary increases. But hey, the new owners want to make a big splash, and might not worry about that extra penalty in a few years, if they can add someone to the rotation now.

Thanks. I was looking at some players and there isn't a big list, but there's a handful that would be interesting.

Corey Joseph - 5.1m - Pistons
Terrence Davis - 4m - Kings
Trey Lyles - 2.6m - Kings
Alex Len - 3.9m - Kings
KBD - 1.8m - Spurs
Garrett Temple - 5.2m - Pelicans(has a 2 year deal)
Darius Bazely - 4.2m OKC
Kenrich Williams - 2m - OKC
Isaiah Roby - 1.9m OKC
Kenyon Martin jr - 1.7m(2 year deal) - Houston -- I believe he requested a trade as well?
Garrison Matthews - 2m(3 year deal) - Houston
David Nwaba - 5m(2 year deal) - Houston

Can Nwaba be PoA defender? otherwise I would add Kenrich Williams because OKC might have too many players in roster

SO_MONEY · Post #129 » by **SO_MONEY** » Sun Jul 3, 2022 10:25 pm

moss_is_1 wrote:
shrink wrote:$44.35 (it’s 125% + $100,000), but yes, you’re right. And deals are regularly amended after the moratorium, so you’re right there too.

The only question that the front office may have, is whether they want to avoid slipping over the lux this year, since it may lead to repeater taxes in a few years, once our lineup gets much more expensive with Towns and Ant’s salary increases. But hey, the new owners want to make a big splash, and might not worry about that extra penalty in a few years, if they can add someone to the rotation now.

Thanks. I was looking at some players and there isn't a big list, but there's a handful that would be interesting.

Corey Joseph - 5.1m - Pistons
Terrence Davis - 4m - Kings
Trey Lyles - 2.6m - Kings
Alex Len - 3.9m - Kings
KBD - 1.8m - Spurs
Garrett Temple - 5.2m - Pelicans(has a 2 year deal)
Darius Bazely - 4.2m OKC
Kenrich Williams - 2m - OKC
Isaiah Roby - 1.9m OKC
Kenyon Martin jr - 1.7m(2 year deal) - Houston -- I believe he requested a trade as well?
Garrison Matthews - 2m(3 year deal) - Houston
David Nwaba - 5m(2 year deal) - Houston

Being Prince can be traded I think that could allow some options as well to increase or decrease salary in a trade while staying below the LUX. Really only have 2nds to offer, which I think we are thin on as well.

winforlose · Post #130 » by **winforlose** » Mon Jul 4, 2022 3:02 am

SO_MONEY wrote:
moss_is_1 wrote:
shrink wrote:$44.35 (it’s 125% + $100,000), but yes, you’re right. And deals are regularly amended after the moratorium, so you’re right there too.

The only question that the front office may have, is whether they want to avoid slipping over the lux this year, since it may lead to repeater taxes in a few years, once our lineup gets much more expensive with Towns and Ant’s salary increases. But hey, the new owners want to make a big splash, and might not worry about that extra penalty in a few years, if they can add someone to the rotation now.

Thanks. I was looking at some players and there isn't a big list, but there's a handful that would be interesting.

Corey Joseph - 5.1m - Pistons
Terrence Davis - 4m - Kings
Trey Lyles - 2.6m - Kings
Alex Len - 3.9m - Kings
KBD - 1.8m - Spurs
Garrett Temple - 5.2m - Pelicans(has a 2 year deal)
Darius Bazely - 4.2m OKC
Kenrich Williams - 2m - OKC
Isaiah Roby - 1.9m OKC
Kenyon Martin jr - 1.7m(2 year deal) - Houston -- I believe he requested a trade as well?
Garrison Matthews - 2m(3 year deal) - Houston
David Nwaba - 5m(2 year deal) - Houston

Being Prince can be traded I think that could allow some options as well to increase or decrease salary in a trade while staying below the LUX. Really only have 2nds to offer, which I think we are thin on as well.

We gave 3 future seconds and got 2 back. Not sure about the years. I also believe (although this could have been moved by now,) we are owed a 24 second from Philly as part of the Butler deal. If true we should be around 1 per year (again I have not checked.)

BlacJacMac · Post #131 » by **BlacJacMac** » Mon Jul 4, 2022 3:07 am

We’ve traded away our next 5 second round picks.

We have the Knicks 2023 coming and the least favorable 2026 of Indiana, Miami or San Antonio.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

winforlose · Post #132 » by **winforlose** » Mon Jul 4, 2022 3:31 am

BlacJacMac wrote:We’ve traded away our next 5 second round picks.

We have the Knicks 2023 coming and the least favorable 2026 of Indiana, Miami or San Antonio.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

Guess we’re gonna have to trade back on Knicks 2023 at least once and then trade back again using the new pick we get in 24 to get one for 25, ect…

BlacJacMac · Post #133 » by **BlacJacMac** » Mon Jul 4, 2022 3:35 am

winforlose wrote:
BlacJacMac wrote:We’ve traded away our next 5 second round picks.

We have the Knicks 2023 coming and the least favorable 2026 of Indiana, Miami or San Antonio.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

Guess we’re gonna have to trade back on Knicks 2023 at least once and then trade back again using the new pick we get in 24 to get one for 25, ect…

Fortunately it seems like 2nd round picks are always available for cash.

winforlose · Post #134 » by **winforlose** » Mon Jul 4, 2022 3:38 am

BlacJacMac wrote:
winforlose wrote:
BlacJacMac wrote:We’ve traded away our next 5 second round picks.

We have the Knicks 2023 coming and the least favorable 2026 of Indiana, Miami or San Antonio.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

Guess we’re gonna have to trade back on Knicks 2023 at least once and then trade back again using the new pick we get in 24 to get one for 25, ect…

Fortunately it seems like 2nd round picks are always available for cash.

Does that cash actually count against the cap? I always wondered but never checked.

BlacJacMac · Post #135 » by **BlacJacMac** » Mon Jul 4, 2022 3:40 am

winforlose wrote:
BlacJacMac wrote:
winforlose wrote:
Guess we’re gonna have to trade back on Knicks 2023 at least once and then trade back again using the new pick we get in 24 to get one for 25, ect…

Fortunately it seems like 2nd round picks are always available for cash.

Does that cash actually count against the cap? I always wondered but never checked.

Nope. But I'm pretty sure there is a limit of 3M/year that you can use as parts of trades - the David Kahn rule.

shrink · Post #136 » by **shrink** » Mon Jul 4, 2022 5:31 am

BlacJacMac wrote:
winforlose wrote:
BlacJacMac wrote:
Fortunately it seems like 2nd round picks are always available for cash.

Does that cash actually count against the cap? I always wondered but never checked.

Nope. But I'm pretty sure there is a limit of 3M/year that you can use as parts of trades - the David Kahn rule.

You’re right, but the limit a team can send, or receive, in a year has risen to $5,785,000.

Buying a pick doesn’t count against the cap, or count against the $5.785. It probably should.

winforlose · Post #137 » by **winforlose** » Mon Jul 4, 2022 5:35 am

shrink wrote:
BlacJacMac wrote:
winforlose wrote:
Does that cash actually count against the cap? I always wondered but never checked.

Nope. But I'm pretty sure there is a limit of 3M/year that you can use as parts of trades - the David Kahn rule.

You’re right, but the limit a team can send, or receive, in a year has risen to $5,785,000.

Buying a pick doesn’t count against the cap, or count against the $5.785. It probably should.

It is just so weird that of our own picks between now and 2027 all we own is our own 2024 first, a possible pick swap 2026 first and no seconds. All I can say is we better stay healthy.

Neeva · Post #138 » by **Neeva** » Mon Jul 4, 2022 6:13 am

winforlose wrote:
shrink wrote:
BlacJacMac wrote:
Nope. But I'm pretty sure there is a limit of 3M/year that you can use as parts of trades - the David Kahn rule.

You’re right, but the limit a team can send, or receive, in a year has risen to $5,785,000.

Buying a pick doesn’t count against the cap, or count against the $5.785. It probably should.

It is just so weird that of our own picks between now and 2027 all we own is our own 2024 first, a possible pick swap 2026 first and no seconds. All I can say is we better stay healthy.

Connelly will have to go gleague dumpster diving and foraging for overlooked Euros.

winforlose · Post #139 » by **winforlose** » Mon Jul 4, 2022 7:15 am

Neeva wrote:
winforlose wrote:
shrink wrote:You’re right, but the limit a team can send, or receive, in a year has risen to $5,785,000.

Buying a pick doesn’t count against the cap, or count against the $5.785. It probably should.

It is just so weird that of our own picks between now and 2027 all we own is our own 2024 first, a possible pick swap 2026 first and no seconds. All I can say is we better stay healthy.

Connelly will have to go gleague dumpster diving and foraging for overlooked Euros.

Maybe. Or we skip the second and rely on FA. I wrote this in a different thread but it applies here too.

There are two competing forces now at play. The first force is the big market effect. The big market effect is like a bubble that makes young guys want to live in big cities, with great night life, parties, better and more diverse restaurants, ect… it doesn’t hurt that cities like Miami, and LA happen to be much warmer than most other cities, but NY and Boston prove its not all about weather.

The second force at work is the Gollum effect. The Gollum effect is when a player forsakes all else and chases a ring. We have seen some truly excellent players take less money for years because of the Gollum effect. Vet minimums and trade demands, buyouts and ****fits, all to chase the ring.

If the big market effect is a force field keeping out the best FA (especially on discount deals,) then the Gollum effect is a magnet pulling them in. Whichever force wins will decide our future.

younggunsmn · Post #140 » by **younggunsmn** » Mon Jul 4, 2022 11:00 am

Kind of surprised Indiana took back Theis' bad deal and a 1st round pick for Brogdon.
Means he was attainable before we blew all our picks.

We may soon regret being impatient and not sorting out the Russell/long term PG situation before pulling the trigger on Gobert.