2022-23 NBA Season Discussion

[Dr Positivity]

I dont get why the Nets don't run it back [I think they will].

Kyrie/Mills
Curry/Harris/Thomas
O'Neale/Warren
Durant/Edwards
Claxton/Sharpe

Seems like a strong team, weak title contender.

I agree there's a good chance they both end up playing for Bkn next year and the O'Neale trade was an attempt to convince them to

[Colbinii]

I dont get why the Nets don't run it back [I think they will].

Kyrie/Mills
Curry/Harris/Thomas
O'Neale/Warren
Durant/Edwards
Claxton/Sharpe

Seems like a strong team, weak title contender.

I agree there's a good chance they both end up playing for Bkn next year and the O'Neale trade was an attempt to convince them to

I dont think the O'Neale trade was a move to "Convince them to stay", its Royce O'Neale we are talking about.

O'Neale is simply a roster improvement.

[jalengreen]

I dont get why the Nets don't run it back [I think they will].

Kyrie/Mills
Curry/Harris/Thomas
O'Neale/Warren
Durant/Edwards
Claxton/Sharpe

Seems like a strong team, weak title contender.

Simmons?

[jalengreen]

what a summer league start for chet

[eminence]

Kessler can't get here soon enough for Utah, oof we don't have anything to be excited about in this game.

Chet can really hecking shoot it though. Some concern about ball security. Defensively looks solid.

[HeartBreakKid]

Got to love Gooner romanticizing Kobe Bryant again as if he joined the Bobcats and took them to prominence or something.

Kobe stayed with the same team for his whole career. He had a lot of success, but in 20 years, there are always some difficult moments. He went through all of that with his team, the Lakers. Kobe would never play in Boston or San Antonio. Guys like KD and LBJ have no pride in that regard, they'll play with anybody, including each other.

yeah...thats the problem you never think about things critically.

You think because Kobe was LITERALLY on the Lakers his entire career that means he never showed ANY of the attributes of players who would leave even though

- He only got on the Lakers because he threatened not to play for teams that drafted him (even threatening a small market franchise like the Hornets) - which is the same thing as picking your own team...and is even more underhanded because it destroys the draft system

- He joined the 2nd best team of all time at the time and a big market that obviously benefits from free agency

- The Lakers were already good

- They signed Shaq around the same time because of point #2

- Kobe had little incentive to leave...and then he literally threatened to leave when the Lakers became bad

So how is demanding a trade and refusing to play for a team you draft somehow lesser than joining a team in free agency? Lebron James has NEVER demanded a trade, he has always played out his contract. How on earth is that underhanded?

I dont even get your point about Boston - the Celtics weren't good during Kobe's reign. It's crazy how many details you lack, and you realize when the Celtics were good (during most of Lebron's tenure) he never joined them right? He also never joined the Spurs or Warriors...so what the heck are you talking about?


You're probably the type of guy who thinks it's impressive rich people are rich when they are born rich.


Why would Kobe Bryant leave the Lakers?

Question number 2

You think Kobe Bryant would never leave the Hornets?

[MyUniBroDavis]

Got to love Gooner romanticizing Kobe Bryant again as if he joined the Bobcats and took them to prominence or something.

Kobe stayed with the same team for his whole career. He had a lot of success, but in 20 years, there are always some difficult moments. He went through all of that with his team, the Lakers. Kobe would never play in Boston or San Antonio. Guys like KD and LBJ have no pride in that regard, they'll play with anybody, including each other.

yeah...thats the problem you never think about things critically.

You think because Kobe was LITERALLY on the Lakers his entire career that means he never showed ANY of the attributes of players who would leave even though

- He only got on the Lakers because he threatened not to play for teams that drafted him (even threatening a small market franchise like the Hornets) - which is the same thing as picking your own team...and is even more underhanded because it destroys the draft system

- He joined the 2nd best team of all time at the time and a big market that obviously benefits from free agency

- The Lakers were already good

- They signed Shaq around the same time because of point #2

- Kobe had little incentive to leave...and then he literally threatened to leave when the Lakers became bad

So how is demanding a trade and refusing to play for a team you draft somehow lesser than joining a team in free agency? Lebron James has NEVER demanded a trade, he has always played out his contract. How on earth is that underhanded?

I dont even get your point about Boston - the Celtics weren't good during Kobe's reign. It's crazy how many details you lack, and you realize when the Celtics were good (during most of Lebron's tenure) he never joined them right? He also never joined the Spurs or Warriors...so what the heck are you talking about?


You're probably the type of guy who thinks it's impressive rich people are rich when they are born rich.


Why would Kobe Bryant leave the Lakers?

Question number 2

You think Kobe Bryant would never leave the Hornets?

Didnt Kobe ask to go to the Clippers

I don’t think thing for players to ask to leave to join a better situation when they feel their situation sucks, sure sometimes they can handle it better (bron the decision lol)

Except KDs, KDs was weak

[Gooner]

Got to love Gooner romanticizing Kobe Bryant again as if he joined the Bobcats and took them to prominence or something.

Kobe stayed with the same team for his whole career. He had a lot of success, but in 20 years, there are always some difficult moments. He went through all of that with his team, the Lakers. Kobe would never play in Boston or San Antonio. Guys like KD and LBJ have no pride in that regard, they'll play with anybody, including each other.

yeah...thats the problem you never think about things critically.

You think because Kobe was LITERALLY on the Lakers his entire career that means he never showed ANY of the attributes of players who would leave even though

- He only got on the Lakers because he threatened not to play for teams that drafted him (even threatening a small market franchise like the Hornets) - which is the same thing as picking your own team...and is even more underhanded because it destroys the draft system

- He joined the 2nd best team of all time at the time and a big market that obviously benefits from free agency

- The Lakers were already good

- They signed Shaq around the same time because of point #2

- Kobe had little incentive to leave...and then he literally threatened to leave when the Lakers became bad

So how is demanding a trade and refusing to play for a team you draft somehow lesser than joining a team in free agency? Lebron James has NEVER demanded a trade, he has always played out his contract. How on earth is that underhanded?

I dont even get your point about Boston - the Celtics weren't good during Kobe's reign. It's crazy how many details you lack, and you realize when the Celtics were good (during most of Lebron's tenure) he never joined them right? He also never joined the Spurs or Warriors...so what the heck are you talking about?


You're probably the type of guy who thinks it's impressive rich people are rich when they are born rich.


Why would Kobe Bryant leave the Lakers?

Question number 2

You think Kobe Bryant would never leave the Hornets?

The point is that Kobe would never join a rival or a team that beat him, like Boston or San Antonio, even if he could. That's why I used them as example.

In regards to draft, a lot of players let it be known where they don't want to play prior to draft, that's normal.

And this is not even about leaving or choosing your own team. Every player has the right to do that. It's about mentality. Competitiveness has gone down in last 10 years. For guys like LBJ and KD, there is never enough talent on their roster. Give Kobe Gasol and Odom, and he is happy. These 2 want to join their rivals instead of beating them. LBJ has been kissing Curry's ass a lot recently, and he recruited KD and Kawhi before. All guys that beat him in the finals. Everywhere he's been he built a super team, and KD does the same.

Kobe never played on a super team. He is the equivalent to Curry, guy that's synonymous with one team. Rgardless of the circumstances, that has to be respected. Some guys would never stay on the same team.

[LukaTheGOAT]

It’s honestly even hard to care anymore and get attached to teams or the NBA landscape itself when you know rosters are simply revolving doors of players and stars will bolt as soon as team situations don’t immediately meet all of their expectations of titles/fun/good relations/whatever else. I’ve never even been one to complain about this stuff, but I’ve kinda reached my breaking point now. And I think anyone who downplays it and acts like it doesn’t to some degree signify a lack of competitiveness from players among one another is being dishonest.

Yup. Which is why I can't really bring myself to care about players like Bron and KD, no matter how good they are, and am far more interested in players like Steph, Jokic and Giannis. I doubt many other fans of teams care much about mercenary players either. If anything, I think Bron should thank a professional troll like Skip Bayless whose hating has rallied a lot more Bron stans to his side than he ever could have by himself.

Hey Skip! Didn't think you would be interested in a forum like this.

If Lebron wanted to maximize his ultimate number of fans through his actions, he simply would have never delved into politics and said anything about Trump, and a many of his ex-fans probably are still with him.

[MyUniBroDavis]

The Lakers would have had a fire backup 5 if they got a good SF instead of Lonnie :/

[Peregrine01]

It’s honestly even hard to care anymore and get attached to teams or the NBA landscape itself when you know rosters are simply revolving doors of players and stars will bolt as soon as team situations don’t immediately meet all of their expectations of titles/fun/good relations/whatever else. I’ve never even been one to complain about this stuff, but I’ve kinda reached my breaking point now. And I think anyone who downplays it and acts like it doesn’t to some degree signify a lack of competitiveness from players among one another is being dishonest.

Yup. Which is why I can't really bring myself to care about players like Bron and KD, no matter how good they are, and am far more interested in players like Steph, Jokic and Giannis. I doubt many other fans of teams care much about mercenary players either. If anything, I think Bron should thank a professional troll like Skip Bayless whose hating has rallied a lot more Bron stans to his side than he ever could have by himself.

Hey Skip! Didn't think you would be interested in a forum like this.

If Lebron wanted to maximize his ultimate number of fans through his actions, he simply would have never delved into politics and said anything about Trump, and a many of his ex-fans probably are still with him.

Whether you like it or not, there's a lot of truth to the saying that all publicity is good publicity. I mean, just look at the Kardashians.

People like Skip feed the engine, drive controversy, makes sports tribal and does all the things that drives increased viewership, which ultimately equals more money.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Can both trades happen already lol goddamn I just want my Kyrie + joe Harris

[dcstanley]

Kobe stayed with the same team for his whole career. He had a lot of success, but in 20 years, there are always some difficult moments. He went through all of that with his team, the Lakers. Kobe would never play in Boston or San Antonio. Guys like KD and LBJ have no pride in that regard, they'll play with anybody, including each other.

yeah...thats the problem you never think about things critically.

You think because Kobe was LITERALLY on the Lakers his entire career that means he never showed ANY of the attributes of players who would leave even though

- He only got on the Lakers because he threatened not to play for teams that drafted him (even threatening a small market franchise like the Hornets) - which is the same thing as picking your own team...and is even more underhanded because it destroys the draft system

- He joined the 2nd best team of all time at the time and a big market that obviously benefits from free agency

- The Lakers were already good

- They signed Shaq around the same time because of point #2

- Kobe had little incentive to leave...and then he literally threatened to leave when the Lakers became bad

So how is demanding a trade and refusing to play for a team you draft somehow lesser than joining a team in free agency? Lebron James has NEVER demanded a trade, he has always played out his contract. How on earth is that underhanded?

I dont even get your point about Boston - the Celtics weren't good during Kobe's reign. It's crazy how many details you lack, and you realize when the Celtics were good (during most of Lebron's tenure) he never joined them right? He also never joined the Spurs or Warriors...so what the heck are you talking about?


You're probably the type of guy who thinks it's impressive rich people are rich when they are born rich.


Why would Kobe Bryant leave the Lakers?

Question number 2

You think Kobe Bryant would never leave the Hornets?

And this is not even about leaving or choosing your own team. Every player has the right to do that. It's about mentality. Competitiveness has gone down in last 10 years. For guys like LBJ and KD, there is never enough talent on their roster. Give Kobe Gasol and Odom, and he is happy.

Kobe manipulated his way to the best market in the NBA and was quickly paired with another all-time great.. He was a multi-time champion before he even reached his prime. He wasn't forced to start his career in an NBA wasteland devoid of championship caliber talent. Do your really believe Kobe wouldn't have sought greener pastures if the first seven seasons of his career were similar to Lebron's (small market, incompetent front office, weak supporting cast)? The man publicly requested a trade from Los Angeles after two seasons of non-contention.

Kobe attempted to play with many stars, btw. Kidd, Garnett, CP3, Nash, and Howard were all players he either attempted to recruit or requested his front office to pursue.

[jalengreen]

i'd argue that beal is a counter to the argument that staying with your original team = being particularly competitive.

beal strikes me as a player who is content with sticking to a less successful franchise knowing that it'll make him one of the highest paid players ever. if he cared more about winning above all else he'd get out of there or take a paycut IMO. (and to be clear i'm not criticizing beal, that would be ridiculous. good for him, i'd do the same)

[parsnips33]

i'd argue that beal is a counter to the argument that staying with your original team = being particularly competitive.

beal strikes me as a player who is content with sticking to a less successful franchise knowing that it'll make him one of the highest paid players ever. if he cared more about winning above all else he'd get out of there or take a paycut IMO. (and to be clear i'm not criticizing beal, that would be ridiculous. good for him, i'd do the same)

It's just a proxy for if you like the player or not. None of us (I'd assume) have ever met any of these guys and even if we did it'd be hard if not impossible to say how "competitive" they really are

[sp6r=underrated]

I'm reading the "Does Dallas seem like it should be more of a FA attraction?"

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2210434

A few things stood out.

1. The # of people who think of Miami as on the same level as LA in appeal. This really shows how good Miami has been done over the last quarter century. LA is a global city that is a hub of entertainment. That the Heat have somehow brainwashed fans into thinking Miami is on that tier is a sign of amazing management.

2. The # of people who think NYC isn't on the LA tier. These are the only two cities that deserve the label big markets. This is a sign of how putrid the Knicks/Nets management has been. Similar to the Clippers under Sterling you have a giant wasting appeal.

3. Points 1 and 2 hits me as a big warning sign for the Lakers. The Lakers were in the absolute dump from 2014 to 2018 prior to Lebron signing. The Lebron signing kind of re-set the clock and convinced fans Lakers will always get their top players. I see no reason to think that. If the lakers stay in the duldroms, missing playoffs/1st round exits remainder of Lebron era, I could see free agents slowly viewing them with wariness. The Knicks managed to repulse free agents with a reputation as career destroyers. Especially since the Clippers mgmt looks very shrewd.

4. Fans need to learn to differentiate between small market clubs (Utah, NO, OKC) and middle markets (too many to list). Most of the league is in the middle market tier. Chicago is an enormous city but it is still middle market. The middle market clubs really don't face any significant disadvantages. The ones that are chronically bad, Washington as example. really suffer from terrible mgmt/luck.

The small market teams really are operating behind the 8 ball and their accomplishments need to be graded on a curve (just like the 2 big market cities)

[jalengreen]

3. Points 1 and 2 hits me as a big warning sign for the Lakers. The Lakers were in the absolute dump from 2014 to 2018 prior to Lebron signing. The Lebron signing kind of re-set the clock and convinced fans Lakers will always get their top players. I see no reason to think that. If the lakers stay in the duldroms, missing playoffs/1st round exits remainder of Lebron era, I could see free agents slowly viewing them with wariness. The Knicks managed to repulse free agents with a reputation as career destroyers. Especially since the Clippers mgmt looks very shrewd.

I think the history angle will always help the Lakers. The story of the league is littered with Lakers from Mikan, West, Baylor, Wilt, Abdul-Jabbar, Magic, Shaq, Kobe, LeBron... I expect that the idea of joining their hall of greatness and becoming a Lakers legend will always be appealing.

To be clear, management would still have to be competent, I think it'll just be an edge that they have that reduces how good of a job they need to do. All else equal, I expect the Lakers to be more appealing than the Knicks because of the history angle.

[sp6r=underrated]

3. Points 1 and 2 hits me as a big warning sign for the Lakers. The Lakers were in the absolute dump from 2014 to 2018 prior to Lebron signing. The Lebron signing kind of re-set the clock and convinced fans Lakers will always get their top players. I see no reason to think that. If the lakers stay in the duldroms, missing playoffs/1st round exits remainder of Lebron era, I could see free agents slowly viewing them with wariness. The Knicks managed to repulse free agents with a reputation as career destroyers. Especially since the Clippers mgmt looks very shrewd.

I think the history angle will always help the Lakers. The story of the league is littered with Lakers from Mikan, West, Baylor, Wilt, Abdul-Jabbar, Magic, Shaq, Kobe, LeBron... I expect that the idea of joining their hall of greatness and becoming a Lakers legend will always be appealing.

To be clear, management would still have to be competent, I think it'll just be an edge that they have that reduces how good of a job they need to do. All else equal, I expect the Lakers to be more appealing than the Knicks because of the history angle.

I do think history helps but memory fades. The way I see it 2020 re-set the clock. The Lakers face a real threat: Clippers

The Clippers in LA have better mgmt., and deeper pockets. Lakers are very fortunate they got 1 title in their small window of opportunity while the Clippers didn't. But if the trend continues of Clippers haven't better mgmt that won't last since they have the LA market too.

I've never gotten the impression LA types are as committed to their teams the way NY fans are as committed to Yankees/Mets for instance or Cubs/White Sox in Chicago. Obviously front-runners exist in Chicago/NY but I think there are more in LA.

And being the face of the dominant brand in LA will appeal more to free agents than continuing the lineage of Kobe.

By contrast Knicks fans are much more committed to the team and it will be harder to dislodge them. Best case, which I think will happen over time, is the Nets become the Jets to the Knicks Giants. A team with a massive fan base but still smaller.

[jalengreen]

3. Points 1 and 2 hits me as a big warning sign for the Lakers. The Lakers were in the absolute dump from 2014 to 2018 prior to Lebron signing. The Lebron signing kind of re-set the clock and convinced fans Lakers will always get their top players. I see no reason to think that. If the lakers stay in the duldroms, missing playoffs/1st round exits remainder of Lebron era, I could see free agents slowly viewing them with wariness. The Knicks managed to repulse free agents with a reputation as career destroyers. Especially since the Clippers mgmt looks very shrewd.

I think the history angle will always help the Lakers. The story of the league is littered with Lakers from Mikan, West, Baylor, Wilt, Abdul-Jabbar, Magic, Shaq, Kobe, LeBron... I expect that the idea of joining their hall of greatness and becoming a Lakers legend will always be appealing.

To be clear, management would still have to be competent, I think it'll just be an edge that they have that reduces how good of a job they need to do. All else equal, I expect the Lakers to be more appealing than the Knicks because of the history angle.

I do think history helps but memory fades. The way I see it 2020 re-set the clock. The Lakers face a real threat: Clippers

The Clippers in LA have better mgmt., and deeper pockets. Lakers are very fortunate they got 1 title in their small window of opportunity while the Clippers didn't. But if the trend continues of Clippers haven't better mgmt that won't last since they have the LA market too.

I've never gotten the impression LA types are as committed to their teams the way NY fans are as committed to Yankees/Mets for instance or Cubs/White Sox in Chicago. Obviously front-runners exist in Chicago/NY but I think there are more in LA.

And being the face of the dominant brand in LA will appeal more to free agents than continuing the lineage of Kobe.

By contrast Knicks fans are much more committed to the team and it will be harder to dislodge them. Best case, which I think will happen over time, is the Nets become the Jets to the Knicks Giants. A team with a massive fan base but still smaller.

You're right that memory fades. Especially as it pertains to Kobe's enormous legacy, the league is littered with Kobe fans which would likely help the Lakers' case in free agency. Kobe's impact on current players will naturally decrease as time passes, though. The "next" guy up is obviously LeBron (saw a video posted by the NBA earlier where they asked draftees who their favorite player was. insane amount of lebron answers) but he isn't tied to a franchise like Kobe is of course but I don't think that'll help the Lakers that much even though he won with them.

A ton of SoCal talent in the league too, which helps. Great state for basketball talent. But the rise of the Clippers is a real threat as you mentioned. And while I'm skeptical of how many people are really Clippers fans, a shift (not enough for the Clippers to be dominant fanbase.. I don't see that ever happening, but enough to rise above their current standing) can definitely take place, especially if the Kawhi Clippers live up to their championship expectations. And even if not, any more success will greatly increase the prospects of the Clippers to free agents.

[sp6r=underrated]

I think the history angle will always help the Lakers. The story of the league is littered with Lakers from Mikan, West, Baylor, Wilt, Abdul-Jabbar, Magic, Shaq, Kobe, LeBron... I expect that the idea of joining their hall of greatness and becoming a Lakers legend will always be appealing.

To be clear, management would still have to be competent, I think it'll just be an edge that they have that reduces how good of a job they need to do. All else equal, I expect the Lakers to be more appealing than the Knicks because of the history angle.

I do think history helps but memory fades. The way I see it 2020 re-set the clock. The Lakers face a real threat: Clippers

The Clippers in LA have better mgmt., and deeper pockets. Lakers are very fortunate they got 1 title in their small window of opportunity while the Clippers didn't. But if the trend continues of Clippers haven't better mgmt that won't last since they have the LA market too.

I've never gotten the impression LA types are as committed to their teams the way NY fans are as committed to Yankees/Mets for instance or Cubs/White Sox in Chicago. Obviously front-runners exist in Chicago/NY but I think there are more in LA.

And being the face of the dominant brand in LA will appeal more to free agents than continuing the lineage of Kobe.

By contrast Knicks fans are much more committed to the team and it will be harder to dislodge them. Best case, which I think will happen over time, is the Nets become the Jets to the Knicks Giants. A team with a massive fan base but still smaller.

You're right that memory fades. Especially as it pertains to Kobe's enormous legacy, the league is littered with Kobe fans which would likely help the Lakers' case in free agency. Kobe's impact on current players will naturally decrease as time passes, though. The "next" guy up is obviously LeBron (saw a video posted by the NBA earlier where they asked draftees who their favorite player was. insane amount of lebron answers) but he isn't tied to a franchise like Kobe is of course but I don't think that'll help the Lakers that much even though he won with them.

A ton of SoCal talent in the league too, which helps. Great state for basketball talent. But the rise of the Clippers is a real threat as you mentioned. And while I'm skeptical of how many people are really Clippers fans, a shift (not enough for the Clippers to be dominant fanbase.. I don't see that ever happening, but enough to rise above their current standing) can definitely take place, especially if the Kawhi Clippers live up to their championship expectations. And even if not, any more success will greatly increase the prospects of the Clippers to free agents.

Socal producing NBA players helps those two clubs a lot. Most people like living near home and LA producing players matters. I've always felt DC has been an underachiever because they produce a lot of talent.

https://medium.com/the-cities-tribune/basketball-cities-where-nba-players-come-from-a38d476af94e

If I was the Lakers I'd find the Clippers landing Kawhi to be the canary in the coal mine. 20 yrs ago this never would have happened. Even the 2nd tier free agents have mostly favored the Clippers it seems like the last several years. And just having the Clippers as viable competitors means Lakers no longer have a monopoly on the "I want to play in LA" crowd.