Toronto Blue Jays (44-36) @ Oakland Athletics (26-55) - July 4-6

[Parataxis]

Can we fire Montoyo yet, or do we have to ruin this season entirely before that happens?

Montoyo isn’t out on the field and the in game decisions are premapped from upstairs. Why fire Charlie so the next guy can follow the data given to him.

Look, let's pretend that you're right and that Montoyo is nothing but a figurehead. He makes no decisions, and has nothing directly to do with the Jays's success. Let's pretend that they're paying him roughly $2million/year just to be a pretty face.

Even then - what's the case for keeping him?

If he does nothing, then he does nothing. Firing him won't hurt the team (he does nothing, right?) a change could shake things up though, even if the shake up is only the manager equivallent for the team of a change of scenery.

So even then, there's nothing to lose. It can only get better.

[SharoneWright]

Talented team. But not professional.

Should walk/strut/waltz into the Coliseum and outclass the A's in every way. It's still kindergarten time for us. Embarrassing.

Great spring training facility. Great public relations. Slick front office. Great hair and plakata and homer jacket and sunflower seed showers..... doesn't matter. ZERO men doing the JOB of winning. It's all an inside joke to them. It's a meme. It's a fail.

Charlie needs to go 1st. Even if the message falls on 1 of 100 ears,, a message needs to be sent. He's just so out of his depth.

(And if you think Bo is the franchise SS... you're wrong. And this franchise is in big trouble)

[Asianiac_24]

Now the games we threw against the Rays look mega important. Why were we resting the best hitting catcher in the AL, starting Hatch instead of Castillo, and sending down Castillo and Gage? How many bombs does Thornton have to give up before we send him down to try anyone else?

Please fire Montoyo, or Shatkins, someone. This team is way too talented to not make the WC.

[Raider917]

If this team traded bichette, guerrero, gurriel and kirk for elite pitching prospects or young starters would they be in better or worse shape in a couple of years?

[Mehar]

Now the games we threw against the Rays look mega important. Why were we resting the best hitting catcher in the AL, starting Hatch instead of Castillo, and sending down Castillo and Gage? How many bombs does Thornton have to give up before we send him down to try anyone else?

Please fire Montoyo, or Shatkins, someone. This team is way too talented to not make the WC.

At 7-13 in their last 20 Games, this team has the 4th worst record in MLB since June 16. If this team misses the WC, I would like to clean house from top to bottom starting from Shapiro/Atkins down, since this is their 7th year in Toronto. However, to be realistic- both guys got 5 year contract extensions before the 2021 Season. Will not happen with Shapiro/Atkins. Montoyo has no business being a manager in MLB. He has proved it time and time again with his head scratching decisions all year, from the Bullpen to his batting lineups. If this team is in this same funk for the next two weeks up until the All-Star break, he needs to be fired.

[Mehar]

This team also needs to start playing its best players everyday. That means the days Kirk is not Catching, he should be DH. It is laughable to be sitting Kirk the number of times he has been these past few weeks. Springer should not be getting rest or DH days twice and even sometimes 3 days in a week also. He needs to stop being treated with Kid Gloves. By the way, Pete Walker is portrayed as a great Pitching Coach who does wonders with his pitchers. Besides Robbie Ray, I cannot recall in 10 years what pitchers he has improved greatly. Robbie Ray had very good years in Arizona and was an All-Star, before he was acquired by Toronto. It is not like he was a terrible pitcher for years. Pete Walker himself was a mediocre pitcher for Toronto, having seen him pitch in person several times at the Rogers Centre when Carlos Tosca was Jays manager two decades ago. When Montoyo is eventually fired, all his coaches need to go to, including 3rd base coach Luis Rivera who sent Kirk home at a critical point in the game when he was out by a mile. Rivera has been here for years and is nothing special, just like Pete Walker, who the Toronto media portray as some sort of Pitching Guru who would turn around Kikuchi into a very good pitcher. The pitching performances from guys like Berrios and Kikuchi, including from our pathetic Bullpen which is tied for second worst with Oakland in the AL, shows us that Walker is by no means a Pitching Guru. Our Pitching woes has been the story for years, especially our Bullpen, but Walker is somehow considered immune to criticism.

[Fairview4Life]

If this team traded bichette, guerrero, gurriel and kirk for elite pitching prospects or young starters would they be in better or worse shape in a couple of years?

Much worse. Gurriel and Kirk are probably tradeable since we can rustle up some outfielders and Moreno and Jansen exist, but that much hitting heading out the door is difficult to replace.

[Ado05]

Jays are down bad.

They'll have to subtract from the major league roster to address the pitching.

[Corinne]

I really hope this game is the last straw for kuchi. IMO send him to the bullpen for use in low pressure situations to figure things out. Put one of the other guys in his starting spot, other than Hatch it can't get much worse. I've been campaigning for Castillo but the organization doesn't seem to like him for whatever reason

[Raider917]

If this team traded bichette, guerrero, gurriel and kirk for elite pitching prospects or young starters would they be in better or worse shape in a couple of years?

Much worse. Gurriel and Kirk are probably tradeable since we can rustle up some outfielders and Moreno and Jansen exist, but that much hitting heading out the door is difficult to replace.

How do you fix this situation they are in. It look like the next few years will have a offense that is well above average but pitching that is well under average.

[Lateral Quicks]

Talented team. But not professional.

Should walk/strut/waltz into the Coliseum and outclass the A's in every way. It's still kindergarten time for us. Embarrassing.

Great spring training facility. Great public relations. Slick front office. Great hair and plakata and homer jacket and sunflower seed showers..... doesn't matter. ZERO men doing the JOB of winning. It's all an inside joke to them. It's a meme. It's a fail.

Charlie needs to go 1st. Even if the message falls on 1 of 100 ears,, a message needs to be sent. He's just so out of his depth.

(And if you think Bo is the franchise SS... you're wrong. And this franchise is in big trouble)

I agree on everything you said. Not professional is a good way of putting it. Sure it's a game and they should be having fun, but there is a lack of seriousness that permeates the team.

And I couldn't agree more about Bichette. The team dodged a major bullet in not signing him to a mega contract. He's our #2 hitter and has an OBP of .299. Until he gets back on track, he belongs in the bottom third of the order. And I'd leave him there until he learns some plate discipline. He could be a great hitter, but he won't ever be one until he fixes his approach.

[Lateral Quicks]

Can we fire Montoyo yet, or do we have to ruin this season entirely before that happens?

Montoyo isn’t out on the field and the in game decisions are premapped from upstairs. Why fire Charlie so the next guy can follow the data given to him.

Montoyo sets the clubhouse atmosphere. How about less hugging, and more accountability? I can't recall ever seeing a manager so chummy with his players. This is a guy who very publicly wore a shirt saying "Everything is Fine" when the team had a brutal stretch last year. Well, Charlie, everything wasn't fine then, and it isn't fine now. Your team is significantly under-performing expectations.

This team needs a lot more of the attitude Manoah brings. Off the field a nice guy, on the mound intent on destroying the opposition.

Montoyo's pre-school atmosphere must be grating to a good number of the guys. And his awful in-game decision making must wear thin with the players. Canning him would be a signal to the players that play time is over, and it's time for results.

[Jago88]

Can we fire Montoyo yet, or do we have to ruin this season entirely before that happens?

Montoyo isn’t out on the field and the in game decisions are premapped from upstairs. Why fire Charlie so the next guy can follow the data given to him.

Montoyo sets the clubhouse atmosphere. How about less hugging, and more accountability? I can't recall ever seeing a manager so chummy with his players. This is a guy who very publicly wore a shirt saying "Everything is Fine" when the team had a brutal stretch last year. Well, Charlie, everything wasn't fine then, and it isn't fine now. Your team is significantly under-performing expectations.

This team needs a lot more of the attitude Manoah brings. Off the field a nice guy, on the mound intent on destroying the opposition.

Montoyo's pre-school atmosphere must be grating to a good number of the guys. And his awful in-game decision making must wear thin with the players. Canning him would be a signal to the players that play time is over, and it's time for results.

I was about to write almost the exact same message last night after the game but was tired and went to bed.

There is just so much apathy I get from the team and Charlie has to at least answer for some of that.

[Corinne]

I wish guys would not waste an entire AB with a foul out on the first pitch.

[spykelee]

For all the talk about our pitching, our offense has been anemic basically all year. We are masters of getting hits when there's little to gain and basically incapable of getting any clutch hits ever.

[Parataxis]

Well, that's a relief.

Cimber is now only two wins away from the MLB lead.

[polo007]

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[Schad]

For all the talk about our pitching, our offense has been anemic basically all year. We are masters of getting hits when there's little to gain and basically incapable of getting any clutch hits ever.

We've had teamwide downturns, sure, but that seems a bit extreme. We're fourth in wRC+, and believe it or not, we're actually above the league average in production in clutch situations (relative to a team's overall production). We're the second-best two-out-and-runners-on hitting teams in baseball by wRC+ (and tied best in wOBA), weirdly:

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/splits-leaderboards?splitArr=56,58&splitArrPitch=&position=B&autoPt=false&splitTeams=false&statType=team&statgroup=2&startDate=2022-03-01&endDate=2022-11-01&players=&filter=&groupBy=season&wxTemperature=&wxPressure=&wxAirDensity=&wxElevation=&wxWindSpeed=&sort=15,1

[johanliebert]

That was a pretty swing by bo last night,

[johanliebert]

Rather have seen Castillo get a start tonight then watch an “opener” followed by Lawrence.