[HAYNES] Nets and Lakers actively talking Russ/Kyrie trade…

[Ruma85]

WB gets so trashed here it's disrespectful, he had one bad year averaging 18,7,7, And all he's unplayable. I certainly look forward to a better season this upcoming year.

I'm going to assume you're a very young and/or very casual fan.

The Westbrook critiques are legit, and all you need to do is read back through the many threads here and at r/NBA. There you'll find plenty of good summaries and fairly deep dives in to why he's been such a disaster the last few years, and does far more harm than good at his ridiculous salary point, with his fading skill set, awful defense, and chronic stubbornness about adapting his game.

There's really no reason at all for me to repeat and elaborate on the ocean of ink already spilled, so all I can do is urge you to do your reading. Good luck.

I'm not disagreeing on some of those things, all I'm saying are people make it seem his almost a 12th man on the bench who shouldn't player, when in reality the team didn't do what they needed to do which is stay healthy to compete and the coach wasn't up to par to coach Russell.

I just turned 30, so I guess I'm kind of young haha, I would agree he shoots a lil too much.

[NO-KG-AI]

He shoots to much, he can't finish at the rim/shoot, and refuses to play defense or make an impact off the ball. He's way worse than some 12th man that knows how to stay out of the way.

[Pennebaker]

WB gets so trashed here it's disrespectful, he had one bad year averaging 18,7,7, And all he's unplayable. I certainly look forward to a better season this upcoming year.

I'm going to assume you're a very young and/or very casual fan.

The Westbrook critiques are legit, and all you need to do is read back through the many threads here and at r/NBA. There you'll find plenty of good summaries and fairly deep dives in to why he's been such a disaster the last few years, and does far more harm than good at his ridiculous salary point, with his fading skill set, awful defense, and chronic stubbornness about adapting his game.

There's really no reason at all for me to repeat and elaborate on the ocean of ink already spilled, so all I can do is urge you to do your reading. Good luck.

Westbrook won games singlehandedly when LeBron and AD were out. He dominated 4th quarters by himself, making clutch shots and winning games, but the general public has selective collective amnesia about that.

Not only did Russ do that, he also put up 10 triple doubles (4th in the NBA), while leading the Lakers guards in scoring, assists, rebounds, steals and cuts.

Yeah, off ball movement too, homes.

That's different.

Total Cuts by Guards:

1. Gary Payton II - 107
2. Jaylen Brown - 87
3. Terrance Mann - 84
4. Russell Westbrook - 80 <---- elite
5. Desmond Bane - 66
6. Isaac Okoro - 66
7. Monte Morris - 65
8. Steph Curry - 64
9. Javonte Green - 61
10. Hamidou Diallo - 60

Top 20 in Assists, Total Cuts:

1. Nikola Jokić - 166
2. Russell Westbrook - 80 <---- a boatload of cuts for a point guard
3. Draymond Green - 73
4. Jrue Holiday - 53
5. Bradley Beal - 45
6. Dejounte Murray - 42
7. D’Angelo Russell - 35
8. Ja Morant - 33
9. Kyle Lowry - 22
10. Luka Doncic - 22
11. LaMelo Ball - 21
12. Darius Garland - 21
13. Damian Lillard - 19
14. Trae Young - 13
15. Fred VanVleet - 13
16. Tyrese Haliburton - 4
17. James Harden - 2
18. Chris Paul - 0
19. Zavier Simpson - 0
20. Derrick Walton Jr. - 0

Westbrook Total Cuts by Season:

2021-22 - 80 <---- career high
2020-21 - 23
2019-20 - 19
2018-29 - 30
2017-18 - 27
2016-17 - 26
2015-16 - 38
2014-15 - 37
2013-14 - 47
2012-13 - 63
2011-12 - 66
2010-11 - 62
2009-10 - 57
2008-09 - 77

That's winning basketball.

People that say a team can't win with Westbrook don't know what they're talking about. No coach in the league would agree with them. The idea is a malicious fan's fantasy.

[Slava]

For the life of me, I can't explain how Russ has a DRPM of 2.98, which is top 10 for PGs. I know its highly context specific like all defensive stats but the Lakers were bottom 3 in defensive efficiency and yet he ranks higher than dudes like Jrue Holiday or even LeBron and Davis on the Lakers.

[gigantes]

WB gets so trashed here it's disrespectful, he had one bad year averaging 18,7,7, And all he's unplayable. I certainly look forward to a better season this upcoming year.

I'm going to assume you're a very young and/or very casual fan.

The Westbrook critiques are legit, and all you need to do is read back through the many threads here and at r/NBA. There you'll find plenty of good summaries and fairly deep dives in to why he's been such a disaster the last few years, and does far more harm than good at his ridiculous salary point, with his fading skill set, awful defense, and chronic stubbornness about adapting his game.

There's really no reason at all for me to repeat and elaborate on the ocean of ink already spilled, so all I can do is urge you to do your reading. Good luck.

Westbrook won games singlehandedly when LeBron and AD were out. He dominated 4th quarters by himself, making clutch shots and winning games, but the general public has selective collective amnesia about that.

Not only did Russ do that, he also put up 10 triple doubles (4th in the NBA), while leading the Lakers guards in scoring, assists, rebounds, steals and cuts.

Yeah, off ball movement too, homes. ...

Just curious, Holmes-- if you really believed that stuff and like to argue at length about WB, does that mean you did it in the many threads critiquing the guy during the regular season? Because you would have had people rebutting you point-by-point for days in that case.

Anyway, the emptiest triple-doubles in NBA history have never particularly impressed me, probably because they're built upon such awful efficiency.

Yes, WB is an energiser bunny, always has been, but his net impact is still typically negative. Especially at the salary he takes up, which was far better spent on the guys the Lakers traded for him.

Maybe the guy impresses you in the eye test, and with his counting stats, but you look at his real impact and his advanced stats, and they're dreadful. Negative offensive impact, even worse defensively, and negative WAR. God-awful shooting numbers, terrible true-shooting, flashy player who doesn't actually make his teammates better, which is nominally his job as a PG.

There's a reason the Lakers are trying to get rid of him, and a reason teams have been playing hot-potato with him the last four years.

See you in the funny papers, Holmes, because that's the last bit of time I'll be wasting on the guy.

[John Murdoch]

He shoots to much, he can't finish at the rim/shoot, and refuses to play defense or make an impact off the ball. He's way worse than some 12th man that knows how to stay out of the way.

Id assume BKN would negotiate a buyout with him not actually play him . Hes done in the NBA after this season

[An Unbiased Fan]

For the life of me, I can't explain how Russ has a DRPM of 2.98, which is top 10 for PGs. I know its highly context specific like all defensive stats but the Lakers were bottom 3 in defensive efficiency and yet he ranks higher than dudes like Jrue Holiday or even LeBron and Davis on the Lakers.

Because DRPM stats don't mean anything

[iamworthy]

He shoots to much, he can't finish at the rim/shoot, and refuses to play defense or make an impact off the ball. He's way worse than some 12th man that knows how to stay out of the way.

Id assume BKN would negotiate a buyout with him not actually play him . Hes done in the NBA after this season

You can’t be serious

[John Murdoch]

He shoots to much, he can't finish at the rim/shoot, and refuses to play defense or make an impact off the ball. He's way worse than some 12th man that knows how to stay out of the way.

Id assume BKN would negotiate a buyout with him not actually play him . Hes done in the NBA after this season

You can’t be serious

Did u watch brick last season mr worthy?

[iamworthy]

Id assume BKN would negotiate a buyout with him not actually play him . Hes done in the NBA after this season

You can’t be serious

Did u watch brick last season mr worthy?

Brick? Are you talking about Stephen A Smith roll on soap opera’s?

[Hello Brooklyn]

The Nets aren’t going into next season with Kyrie on the roster and currently have zero other offers for him. Even Nets cheerleader Woj admitted as much today.

Lakers are doing the right thing by waiting them out. I absolutely would put whose more desperate to the test if I’m the Lakers. Especially when you have Kyrie who is going to kill the interest of every other team, if his antics haven’t already.

Says who?

The Nets can easily go into the season with Kyrie. Whats the downside?

If he wants to sit at home he can. Hes used to it anyway.

The Lakers are far more desperate to offload Westbrick.

Nets don’t have the stomach for this. You saw Tsai is letting it be known to everyone how hard the last year was and no one in the organization was in a good place. Tsai just wants to move on. He wants the dark cloud lifted from the franchise. You can try to spin it but if I’m the Lakers? We can go longer with russ than you guys can with the Kyrie distraction hanging over your franchise every day. You guys move sooner than later because that’s what the guy cutting the checks wants.

And taking on Westbrook is a better solution?

We can easily go with the Kyrie distraction. Because your garbage trade creates another problem.

[sonic the laker]

Says who?

The Nets can easily go into the season with Kyrie. Whats the downside?

If he wants to sit at home he can. Hes used to it anyway.

The Lakers are far more desperate to offload Westbrick.

Nets don’t have the stomach for this. You saw Tsai is letting it be known to everyone how hard the last year was and no one in the organization was in a good place. Tsai just wants to move on. He wants the dark cloud lifted from the franchise. You can try to spin it but if I’m the Lakers? We can go longer with russ than you guys can with the Kyrie distraction hanging over your franchise every day. You guys move sooner than later because that’s what the guy cutting the checks wants.

And taking on Westbrook is a better solution?

We can easily go with the Kyrie distraction. Because your garbage trade creates another problem.

Granted, all these conjectures are built on assumptions. That said, there are problems. And, then, there are PROBLEMS.

Any issues a team may have with Westbrook, are going to be strictly confined to on court performance. Westbrook has never had an issue showing up to play, with everything he has. Nor, does he create locker room distractions, or media issues. All these things that create a toxic atmosphere, when you have an unhappy Kyrie.

That's why, personally, I'm cool with the Lakers not going all in, for Kyrie. And, once again, that's assuming that the Nets are amenable to trading him to the Lakers. Knowing the awkward fit Westbrook is, I still think he has more to offer, with younger players, a better coach, and a healthier LeBron/AD. Kyrie is a more idea fit, sure. But, the dude is Kyrie...on a one year contract. He says now, that he wants to be a Laker, reportedly. But, that doesn't mean much, with how notoriously fickle he is. He could wake up one morning, see the sun in a certain position, and decide that it's a sign that he shouldn't be a Laker, and leave in free agency. If that happens, the Lakers aren't getting back those players/picks, they traded to get him.

So, if the Nets want to wait, to trade KD/Kyrie...if they want to trade them at all...that's cool. But, if I'm the Lakers, I'm not overpaying, out of some projected desperation. And, I'm not waiting, either. I'm going to find other ways to improve the roster, sensibly.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Nets don’t have the stomach for this. You saw Tsai is letting it be known to everyone how hard the last year was and no one in the organization was in a good place. Tsai just wants to move on. He wants the dark cloud lifted from the franchise. You can try to spin it but if I’m the Lakers? We can go longer with russ than you guys can with the Kyrie distraction hanging over your franchise every day. You guys move sooner than later because that’s what the guy cutting the checks wants.

And taking on Westbrook is a better solution?

We can easily go with the Kyrie distraction. Because your garbage trade creates another problem.

Granted, all these conjectures are built on assumptions. That said, there are problems. And, then, there are PROBLEMS.

Any issues a team may have with Westbrook, are going to be strictly confined to on court performance. Westbrook has never had an issue showing up to play, with everything he has. Nor, does he create locker room distractions, or media issues. All these things that create a toxic atmosphere, when you have an unhappy Kyrie.

That's why, personally, I'm cool with the Lakers not going all in, for Kyrie. And, once again, that's assuming that the Nets are amenable to trading him to the Lakers. Knowing the awkward fit Westbrook is, I still think he has more to offer, with younger players, a better coach, and a healthier LeBron/AD. Kyrie is a more idea fit, sure. But, the dude is Kyrie...on a one year contract. He says now, that he wants to be a Laker, reportedly. But, that doesn't mean much, with how notoriously fickle he is. He could wake up one morning, see the sun in a certain position, and decide that it's a sign that he shouldn't be a Laker, and leave in free agency. If that happens, the Lakers aren't getting back those players/picks, they traded to get him.

So, if the Nets want to wait, to trade KD/Kyrie...if they want to trade them at all...that's cool. But, if I'm the Lakers, I'm not overpaying, out of some projected desperation. And, I'm not waiting, either. I'm going to find other ways to improve the roster, sensibly.

I don't care.

I don't want Westbrook on the team. He is horrendous. And I don't want to give up Joe Harris. So youre not getting Kyrie.

I have no problem telling Kyrie to go home and shut up.

You guys can offer him 100 million next year. He chose to opt into this contract. Its his fault.

[levon]

Wouldn't the prevailing assumption be that Westbrook is bought out, regardless of where he's traded?

[In-N-Out 247]

And taking on Westbrook is a better solution?

We can easily go with the Kyrie distraction. Because your garbage trade creates another problem.

Granted, all these conjectures are built on assumptions. That said, there are problems. And, then, there are PROBLEMS.

Any issues a team may have with Westbrook, are going to be strictly confined to on court performance. Westbrook has never had an issue showing up to play, with everything he has. Nor, does he create locker room distractions, or media issues. All these things that create a toxic atmosphere, when you have an unhappy Kyrie.

That's why, personally, I'm cool with the Lakers not going all in, for Kyrie. And, once again, that's assuming that the Nets are amenable to trading him to the Lakers. Knowing the awkward fit Westbrook is, I still think he has more to offer, with younger players, a better coach, and a healthier LeBron/AD. Kyrie is a more idea fit, sure. But, the dude is Kyrie...on a one year contract. He says now, that he wants to be a Laker, reportedly. But, that doesn't mean much, with how notoriously fickle he is. He could wake up one morning, see the sun in a certain position, and decide that it's a sign that he shouldn't be a Laker, and leave in free agency. If that happens, the Lakers aren't getting back those players/picks, they traded to get him.

So, if the Nets want to wait, to trade KD/Kyrie...if they want to trade them at all...that's cool. But, if I'm the Lakers, I'm not overpaying, out of some projected desperation. And, I'm not waiting, either. I'm going to find other ways to improve the roster, sensibly.

I don't care.

I don't want Westbrook on the team. He is horrendous. And I don't want to give up Joe Harris. So youre not getting Kyrie.

I have no problem telling Kyrie to go home and shut up.

You guys can offer him 100 million next year. He chose to opt into this contract. Its his fault.

Is this Sean Marks burner account?

[Hello Brooklyn]

Granted, all these conjectures are built on assumptions. That said, there are problems. And, then, there are PROBLEMS.

Any issues a team may have with Westbrook, are going to be strictly confined to on court performance. Westbrook has never had an issue showing up to play, with everything he has. Nor, does he create locker room distractions, or media issues. All these things that create a toxic atmosphere, when you have an unhappy Kyrie.

That's why, personally, I'm cool with the Lakers not going all in, for Kyrie. And, once again, that's assuming that the Nets are amenable to trading him to the Lakers. Knowing the awkward fit Westbrook is, I still think he has more to offer, with younger players, a better coach, and a healthier LeBron/AD. Kyrie is a more idea fit, sure. But, the dude is Kyrie...on a one year contract. He says now, that he wants to be a Laker, reportedly. But, that doesn't mean much, with how notoriously fickle he is. He could wake up one morning, see the sun in a certain position, and decide that it's a sign that he shouldn't be a Laker, and leave in free agency. If that happens, the Lakers aren't getting back those players/picks, they traded to get him.

So, if the Nets want to wait, to trade KD/Kyrie...if they want to trade them at all...that's cool. But, if I'm the Lakers, I'm not overpaying, out of some projected desperation. And, I'm not waiting, either. I'm going to find other ways to improve the roster, sensibly.

I don't care.

I don't want Westbrook on the team. He is horrendous. And I don't want to give up Joe Harris. So youre not getting Kyrie.

I have no problem telling Kyrie to go home and shut up.

You guys can offer him 100 million next year. He chose to opt into this contract. Its his fault.

Is this Sean Marks burner account?

Have fun with Westbrick. Were not taking him.

Feel free to offer kooky Kyrie 100 million next summer. As I stated.

[sonic the laker]

And taking on Westbrook is a better solution?

We can easily go with the Kyrie distraction. Because your garbage trade creates another problem.

Granted, all these conjectures are built on assumptions. That said, there are problems. And, then, there are PROBLEMS.

Any issues a team may have with Westbrook, are going to be strictly confined to on court performance. Westbrook has never had an issue showing up to play, with everything he has. Nor, does he create locker room distractions, or media issues. All these things that create a toxic atmosphere, when you have an unhappy Kyrie.

That's why, personally, I'm cool with the Lakers not going all in, for Kyrie. And, once again, that's assuming that the Nets are amenable to trading him to the Lakers. Knowing the awkward fit Westbrook is, I still think he has more to offer, with younger players, a better coach, and a healthier LeBron/AD. Kyrie is a more idea fit, sure. But, the dude is Kyrie...on a one year contract. He says now, that he wants to be a Laker, reportedly. But, that doesn't mean much, with how notoriously fickle he is. He could wake up one morning, see the sun in a certain position, and decide that it's a sign that he shouldn't be a Laker, and leave in free agency. If that happens, the Lakers aren't getting back those players/picks, they traded to get him.

So, if the Nets want to wait, to trade KD/Kyrie...if they want to trade them at all...that's cool. But, if I'm the Lakers, I'm not overpaying, out of some projected desperation. And, I'm not waiting, either. I'm going to find other ways to improve the roster, sensibly.

I don't care.

I don't want Westbrook on the team. He is horrendous. And I don't want to give up Joe Harris. So youre not getting Kyrie.

I have no problem telling Kyrie to go home and shut up.

You guys can offer him 100 million next year. He chose to opt into this contract. Its his fault.

lol Then, I guess we can agree that we both have no issue, if there's no trade agreement between our respective teams. Great!

If KD was open to playing with Westbrook, I honestly think they'd work well together (i.e. they're OKC years). Not sure about Ben Simmons, though. And, funny enough, from reports, the sticking point was that the Lakers wanted Seth Curry, with Kyrie. The Nets wanted Joe Harris, with Kyrie, to offload Joe's heftier contract. Reported, of course.

Kyrie can indeed "go home and shut up". And, if the Nets are willing to play hardball, while potentially getting nothing in return for Kyrie, then that's cool. Just as long as they understand that, the longer this drags out, the less value Kyrie has in potential trades. The only way Kyrie's value increases, is if he opens up his availability to other teams, and promises to re-sign, next year. For the Nets, an "at home" Kyrie is only valuable as an expiring contract, for them. Just facts.

Kyrie did indeed opt into his contract...which was always the most likely scenario. And, I agree. This whole scenario is of Kyrie's, and KD's, making.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Granted, all these conjectures are built on assumptions. That said, there are problems. And, then, there are PROBLEMS.

Any issues a team may have with Westbrook, are going to be strictly confined to on court performance. Westbrook has never had an issue showing up to play, with everything he has. Nor, does he create locker room distractions, or media issues. All these things that create a toxic atmosphere, when you have an unhappy Kyrie.

That's why, personally, I'm cool with the Lakers not going all in, for Kyrie. And, once again, that's assuming that the Nets are amenable to trading him to the Lakers. Knowing the awkward fit Westbrook is, I still think he has more to offer, with younger players, a better coach, and a healthier LeBron/AD. Kyrie is a more idea fit, sure. But, the dude is Kyrie...on a one year contract. He says now, that he wants to be a Laker, reportedly. But, that doesn't mean much, with how notoriously fickle he is. He could wake up one morning, see the sun in a certain position, and decide that it's a sign that he shouldn't be a Laker, and leave in free agency. If that happens, the Lakers aren't getting back those players/picks, they traded to get him.

So, if the Nets want to wait, to trade KD/Kyrie...if they want to trade them at all...that's cool. But, if I'm the Lakers, I'm not overpaying, out of some projected desperation. And, I'm not waiting, either. I'm going to find other ways to improve the roster, sensibly.

I don't care.

I don't want Westbrook on the team. He is horrendous. And I don't want to give up Joe Harris. So youre not getting Kyrie.

I have no problem telling Kyrie to go home and shut up.

You guys can offer him 100 million next year. He chose to opt into this contract. Its his fault.

lol Then, I guess we can agree that we both have no issue, if there's no trade agreement between our respective teams. Great!

If KD was open to playing with Westbrook, I honestly think they'd work well together (i.e. they're OKC years). Not sure about Ben Simmons, though. And, funny enough, from reports, the sticking point was that the Lakers wanted Seth Curry, with Kyrie. The Nets wanted Joe Harris, with Kyrie, to offload Joe's heftier contract. Reported, of course.

Kyrie can indeed "go home and shut up". And, if the Nets are willing to play hardball, while potentially getting nothing in return for Kyrie, then that's cool. Just as long as they understand that, the longer this drags out, the less value Kyrie has in potential trades. The only way Kyrie's value increases, is if he opens up his availability to other teams, and promises to re-sign, next year. For the Nets, an "at home" Kyrie is only valuable as an expiring contract, for them. Just facts.

Kyrie did indeed opt into his contract...which was always the most likely scenario. And, I agree. This whole scenario is of Kyrie's, and KD's, making.

I don't want a trade with the Lakers unless they reroute Westbrook.

Westbrook-Simmons is a disaster waiting to happen. And Westbrook were beyond awful last year anyway.

Don't want him near the Nets.

I don't believe any of those reports which were contradicted by the NY Post.

I don't view taking on Westbrook as value. Its negative value. Kyrie has destroyed his own value already. So I'm ok with getting nothing for him.

Still a small chance Dallas or some other team swoops in an offers some contracts for Kyrie at the deadline.

[Kurtz]

Westbrook's awfulness has really been overstated on this board, imo. Not too long ago he was winning MVP while carrying his team to a much better record than expected. Not long after that he brought back Paul and two first rounders in trade. More recently we heard that Jordan was offering Hayward+Rozier for him - two players who while overpaid, can still very much help a contender.

He just needs a proper fit. Surround him with shooters and he's an asset. Last year's Lakers team was just an awful fit for him with their complete lack of shooters - this was evident from day 1.

[JB2]

Westbrook's awfulness has really been overstated on this board, imo. Not too long ago he was winning MVP while carrying his team to a much better record than expected. Not long after that he brought back Paul and two first rounders in trade. More recently we heard that Jordan was offering Hayward+Rozier for him - two players who while overpaid, can still very much help a contender.

He just needs a proper fit. Surround him with shooters and he's an asset. Last year's Lakers team was just an awful fit for him with their complete lack of shooters - this was evident from day 1.

Sorry but I just cannot ever see Russ being called an asset as long as he;'s making $47M. That's silly. Curry, LeBron, Giannis, Luka, Jokic... those guys (and others) are assets at that price point. And if you think last years roster didn't fit around Russ, wait til you see how bad Lakers current roster is shooting (and defense) wise. Rob really outdid himself here. He painted his masterpiece of ****. But hey, they're younger.

If Jordan offered Hayward + Rozier, IMO the deal would be done and Kyrie would be in Lam Russ, in Char, and those 2 picks a 1st or 2 in BK.