2022-23 Regular Season

[JonFromVA]

It was a bad pass that should've been stolen mid-air. Also he had full view of the court the entire time with the ball in his hands for much of it.

Sexton was moving quickly trying to get the inbound pass, even getting knocked over as they were motioning prior to the inbound pass to find an opening, then when he got it Garland was 100% covered and it wasn't until he was already committed to the course of action that Garland came open. That's not even to take into account there is no guarantee that even Garland would've seen someone come open and been able to make the pass considering there were multiple people within that short area. More than likely it was a horribly drawn up OOB play, which everyone was complaining about with JBB to start the season, where Sexton was supposed to get the ball and go for a bucket. He probably should've taken the midrange jumper after getting the ball and turning around with some space in front of him but he was probably thinking that at worst he could draw contact and get to the line, which early on the season was hard to do due to the points of emphasis that later got relaxed on.

Also huge difference, LeVert was in a situation where the Cavs were up 3 with over 40 seconds left, even if they blew the possession it didn't matter. Sexton was getting the ball on an inbound pass with less than 16 seconds left down by 1.

Like I said, I am focusing less on the players in the play and more what is done with the ball. I would rather someone have the versatility of using their scoring to create open looks for others. In both situations, passing was available and was ultimately the better option.

A scoring attempt, in a vacuum, is neither good or bad. The context around that scoring attempt is what gives it value. Driving into multiple defenders and shooting or getting double-teamed at the perimeter and shooting are near-equal low efficiency plays especially when there are far more effective options available.

This is why I believe this team does not need more players who can manufacture their own shot, but instead those who can manufacture shots for others using their on-ball and off-ball skills.

The thing is ... Collin doesn't have to be a perfect player if we're not paying him like one, and at least before his knee surgery his speed was a very special weapon. If the egos and $$$ can be sorted out, I'd be glad to have him on the roster.

LeVert may very well prove to be the better fit for the roster, but there's a lot we didn't get to see last season because of injuries, and he'd like to be paid too. The difference is he's going to be unrestricted, and then we just drafted Agbaji and would love to see Isaac take a jump.

The ultimate punt would be to get Collin back on the QO and use the season to evaluate who needs to get paid, who needs to get traded, who we should let walk, etc.

Going just by last season, we had a lot of success with Isaac starting at SG, Ricky coming in off the bench at PG & SG, and Lauri at SF. Let's see if some of these other combinations are an actual improvement ...

[jbk1234]

If a team payed LeVert 17 mil, then paying Sexton that should be a no brainer considering that LeVert is a worse version of Sexton that even with 4 extra inches of height it doesn't translate to being better defensively than Sexton.

Ochai isn't close to being able to get his own shot like Sexton can and that's what the Cavs were desperately in need of.

Rubio helped somewhat with the loss of Sexton's ability to create for himself but they still had stagnant moments on offense that someone like Sexton would've solved.

Also the Mavs have nothing of value to give up without causing more issues with their team. They could definitely use someone like Sexton but they've blown all of their assets the past few years on moves that didn't work out. If the Mavs give up anything of value, which is really just DFS, then they create other issues with their roster.

Also how does Collin's value drop? God I can't wait for this all to be over, hopefully Sexton finds a team where the fans will actually appreciate him and he can shine.

First off, LeVert has demonstrated he could actually defend in the play-in games. Second, LeVert isn't worth his contract. It's expiring, so the Cavs are protected, but how unhappy would you be if we extended him for three years on that number? Finally, it was reported that the Cavs offered Sexton $51M over three years which equates to $17M per. He wants more. If it's not out there, that's not the fault of Cavs fans. That's the league's perception.

You're basing LeVert's ability to guard on a two-game sample? Can I interest you in an 11-game sample from Sexton where his defense was significantly improved from his previous career performance?

Also, do you have a source on the Cavs' offer?

I mean take it for what it's worth. https://factoryofsadness.co/2022/06/29/cavs-rumors-cleveland-collin-sexton-miles-apart-new-contract/#!

As far as using Sexton's 11 game sample size from last season as evidence of improved defense, that's not a point in Sexton's favor. There's a reason JBB was sending him to the bench to close out games.

[ijspeelman]

The thing is ... Collin doesn't have to be a perfect player if we're not paying him like one, and at least before his knee surgery his speed was a very special weapon. If the egos and $$$ can be sorted out, I'd be glad to have him on the roster.

LeVert may very well prove to be the better fit for the roster, but there's a lot we didn't get to see last season because of injuries, and he'd like to be paid too. The difference is he's going to be unrestricted, and then we just drafted Agbaji and would love to see Isaac take a jump.

The ultimate punt would be to get Collin back on the QO and use the season to evaluate who needs to get paid, who needs to get traded, who we should let walk, etc.

Going just by last season, we had a lot of success with Isaac starting at SG, Ricky coming in off the bench at PG & SG, and Lauri at SF. Let's see if some of these other combinations are an actual improvement ...

I see no problem in bringing Sexton back for less than 17-18mil per year (or the QO) especially to see who all fits and who doesn't in our new roster. I just don't subscribe to the idea that Sexton solves our scoring droughts with how our current system stands. He is someone that will shoot when no one else is scoring, but, to me, that isn't what solves stagnant offenses. That does not mean I don't think there isn't a place for him on this team if he can carve out a role, but he definitely isn't the cure-all to our offense.

[JonFromVA]

The thing is ... Collin doesn't have to be a perfect player if we're not paying him like one, and at least before his knee surgery his speed was a very special weapon. If the egos and $$$ can be sorted out, I'd be glad to have him on the roster.

LeVert may very well prove to be the better fit for the roster, but there's a lot we didn't get to see last season because of injuries, and he'd like to be paid too. The difference is he's going to be unrestricted, and then we just drafted Agbaji and would love to see Isaac take a jump.

The ultimate punt would be to get Collin back on the QO and use the season to evaluate who needs to get paid, who needs to get traded, who we should let walk, etc.

Going just by last season, we had a lot of success with Isaac starting at SG, Ricky coming in off the bench at PG & SG, and Lauri at SF. Let's see if some of these other combinations are an actual improvement ...

I see no problem in bringing Sexton back for less than 17-18mil per year (or the QO) especially to see who all fits and who doesn't in our new roster. I just don't subscribe to the idea that Sexton solves our scoring droughts with how our current system stands. He is someone that will shoot when no one else is scoring, but, to me, that isn't what solves stagnant offenses. That does not mean I don't think there isn't a place for him on this team if he can carve out a role, but he definitely isn't the cure-all to our offense.

He's a weapon, not a superstar. That means there are times/places you can insert Collin, he can go off and roast the other team, and we win.

Which is all fine and good unless we lock in to just one player and presume a round peg can fit in every type of hole.

[Revenged25]

First off, LeVert has demonstrated he could actually defend in the play-in games. Second, LeVert isn't worth his contract. It's expiring, so the Cavs are protected, but how unhappy would you be if we extended him for three years on that number? Finally, it was reported that the Cavs offered Sexton $51M over three years which equates to $17M per. He wants more. If it's not out there, that's not the fault of Cavs fans. That's the league's perception.

You're basing LeVert's ability to guard on a two-game sample? Can I interest you in an 11-game sample from Sexton where his defense was significantly improved from his previous career performance?

Also, do you have a source on the Cavs' offer?

I mean take it for what it's worth. https://factoryofsadness.co/2022/06/29/cavs-rumors-cleveland-collin-sexton-miles-apart-new-contract/#!

As far as using Sexton's 11 game sample size from last season as evidence of improved defense, that's not a point in Sexton's favor. There's a reason JBB was sending him to the bench to close out games.

You mean the games where he wasn't shooting well so they put in an even better defensive specialist or Rubio who is better defensively but also was still red-hot offensively coming off the Olympics? Seems more like JBB finally started riding the hot-hand and Sexton was just cold to start the season.

[ijspeelman]

He's a weapon, not a superstar. That means there are times/places you can insert Collin, he can go off and roast the other team, and we win.

Which is all fine and good unless we lock in to just one player and presume a round peg can fit in every type of hole.

I really think he needs to improve his off-ball play to be a real weapon on this roster. I can see him being employed against average to below average defenses to quickly string together some buckets, but I am imagining play-off level opponents where defense gets smarter and smarter. That is where inviting Sexton to score is less appealing and why I am lower on his current value.

[jbk1234]

You're basing LeVert's ability to guard on a two-game sample? Can I interest you in an 11-game sample from Sexton where his defense was significantly improved from his previous career performance?

Also, do you have a source on the Cavs' offer?

I mean take it for what it's worth. https://factoryofsadness.co/2022/06/29/cavs-rumors-cleveland-collin-sexton-miles-apart-new-contract/#!

As far as using Sexton's 11 game sample size from last season as evidence of improved defense, that's not a point in Sexton's favor. There's a reason JBB was sending him to the bench to close out games.

You mean the games where he wasn't shooting well so they put in an even better defensive specialist or Rubio who is better defensively but also was still red-hot offensively coming off the Olympics? Seems more like JBB finally started riding the hot-hand and Sexton was just cold to start the season.

You can be angry with other Cavs fans whose evaluations of Sexton differ from yours if you like, but that is not Sexton's current problem. Sexton's current problem is the evaluation of 30 teams league wide. Currently at least, that big offer sheet is not out there for him.

[toooskies]

First off, LeVert has demonstrated he could actually defend in the play-in games. Second, LeVert isn't worth his contract. It's expiring, so the Cavs are protected, but how unhappy would you be if we extended him for three years on that number? Finally, it was reported that the Cavs offered Sexton $51M over three years which equates to $17M per. He wants more. If it's not out there, that's not the fault of Cavs fans. That's the league's perception.

You're basing LeVert's ability to guard on a two-game sample? Can I interest you in an 11-game sample from Sexton where his defense was significantly improved from his previous career performance?

Also, do you have a source on the Cavs' offer?

I mean take it for what it's worth. https://factoryofsadness.co/2022/06/29/cavs-rumors-cleveland-collin-sexton-miles-apart-new-contract/#!

As far as using Sexton's 11 game sample size from last season as evidence of improved defense, that's not a point in Sexton's favor. There's a reason JBB was sending him to the bench to close out games.

The full quote from the Bleacher Report article referenced:

League figures have long indicated a possible return of Ricky Rubio to Cleveland. Collin Sexton could feasibly return to the Cavaliers as well. But while Sexton is believed to covet upwards of $20 million on the open market, Cleveland presented a deal closer to Jordan Clarkson's three-year, $51 million back during early extension conversations, sources told B/R.

So "extension conversations" was last year and not this year? As I do not believe Sexton could be extended once the season ended. So this might be regurgitated news from last offseason's negotiations? Or at the very least, one of the Cavs' early opening offers. Unless the Cavs aren't negotiating at all, it's hard to believe that that's the exact number they're sitting on.

As far as your "Sexton got subbed out and that means he's about to get benched" claims, here are his last three games that he finished:
http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20211101&game=CLECHA
http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20211103&game=PORCLE
http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20211105&game=CLETOR

In the Charlotte game, he played in the last minute of the game but didn't close the game; instead Cedi Osman did, presumably because we had a lead and needed a taller defender.

In the Portland game, Sexton closed it out until we went tall (pulling both Sexton and Garland for Wade and Osman) for the last defensive possession.

In the Toronto game, Sexton was put into the lineup in the last minute after sitting most of crunch time (but playing most of the 4th quarter), deployed specifically when we needed a score. (His shot was off all game, possibly leading to him not playing all of crunch time.)

There was only one game all season where Sexton was riding the pine for the entirety of crunch time (against Atlanta earlier in the season, benched for Okoro) on another night where his shot wasn't falling.

All of this leads me to believe that no, Sexton wasn't about to be taken out of the starting lineup based on crunch time usage; he was treated like most teams treat their 4th or 5th best player, subbing him out when his weaknesses hurt him on a given night and leaving him in when his strengths are needed. He wasn't ever losing the starting spot to a specific guy either, with Rubio, Okoro, and Osman being the guy getting minutes from him on a specific night for specific purposes.

[JonFromVA]

He's a weapon, not a superstar. That means there are times/places you can insert Collin, he can go off and roast the other team, and we win.

Which is all fine and good unless we lock in to just one player and presume a round peg can fit in every type of hole.

I really think he needs to improve his off-ball play to be a real weapon on this roster. I can see him being employed against average to below average defenses to quickly string together some buckets, but I am imagining play-off level opponents where defense gets smarter and smarter. That is where inviting Sexton to score is less appealing and why I am lower on his current value.

Well, as the roster currently stands, if Collin comes up short in the playoffs - we have plenty of other options; but the first goal is to make the playoffs and if Collin can abuse some crappy regular season defensive teams and get us some wins ... that's cool by me.

It's just not worth $20M/yr ...

[JonFromVA]

You're basing LeVert's ability to guard on a two-game sample? Can I interest you in an 11-game sample from Sexton where his defense was significantly improved from his previous career performance?

Also, do you have a source on the Cavs' offer?

I mean take it for what it's worth. https://factoryofsadness.co/2022/06/29/cavs-rumors-cleveland-collin-sexton-miles-apart-new-contract/#!

As far as using Sexton's 11 game sample size from last season as evidence of improved defense, that's not a point in Sexton's favor. There's a reason JBB was sending him to the bench to close out games.

The full quote from the Bleacher Report article referenced:

League figures have long indicated a possible return of Ricky Rubio to Cleveland. Collin Sexton could feasibly return to the Cavaliers as well. But while Sexton is believed to covet upwards of $20 million on the open market, Cleveland presented a deal closer to Jordan Clarkson's three-year, $51 million back during early extension conversations, sources told B/R.

So "extension conversations" was last year and not this year? As I do not believe Sexton could be extended once the season ended. So this might be regurgitated news from last offseason's negotiations? Or at the very least, one of the Cavs' early opening offers. Unless the Cavs aren't negotiating at all, it's hard to believe that that's the exact number they're sitting on.

As far as your "Sexton got subbed out and that means he's about to get benched" claims, here are his last three games that he finished:
http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20211101&game=CLECHA
http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20211103&game=PORCLE
http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20211105&game=CLETOR

In the Charlotte game, he played in the last minute of the game but didn't close the game; instead Cedi Osman did, presumably because we had a lead and needed a taller defender.

In the Portland game, Sexton closed it out until we went tall (pulling both Sexton and Garland for Wade and Osman) for the last defensive possession.

In the Toronto game, Sexton was put into the lineup in the last minute after sitting most of crunch time (but playing most of the 4th quarter), deployed specifically when we needed a score. (His shot was off all game, possibly leading to him not playing all of crunch time.)

There was only one game all season where Sexton was riding the pine for the entirety of crunch time (against Atlanta earlier in the season, benched for Okoro) on another night where his shot wasn't falling.

All of this leads me to believe that no, Sexton wasn't about to be taken out of the starting lineup based on crunch time usage; he was treated like most teams treat their 4th or 5th best player, subbing him out when his weaknesses hurt him on a given night and leaving him in when his strengths are needed. He wasn't ever losing the starting spot to a specific guy either, with Rubio, Okoro, and Osman being the guy getting minutes from him on a specific night for specific purposes.

Take it fwiw, but I've heard that when the original idea of starting Lauri was being considered, JBB wanted to keep Isaac in the starting lineup and it was the FO who told him that wasn't acceptable.

So, instead they proposed a new role for Collin which he accepted; but if Collin didn't get hurt and his play in his new role didn't improve, odds are he's getting replaced in the starting lineup with Isaac.

The flip side of that is if he did adapt to the new role, we'd have continued forward with Sexland; but when you consider everything that happened and JBB's decisions ... it makes a lot of sense. And personally, I wouldn't even assume JBB will play LeVert ahead of Okoro. Yes it makes sense in a number of ways and we saw it in the last game .vs. Atlanta, but it's not like we won.

[toooskies]

I mean take it for what it's worth. https://factoryofsadness.co/2022/06/29/cavs-rumors-cleveland-collin-sexton-miles-apart-new-contract/#!

As far as using Sexton's 11 game sample size from last season as evidence of improved defense, that's not a point in Sexton's favor. There's a reason JBB was sending him to the bench to close out games.

The full quote from the Bleacher Report article referenced:

League figures have long indicated a possible return of Ricky Rubio to Cleveland. Collin Sexton could feasibly return to the Cavaliers as well. But while Sexton is believed to covet upwards of $20 million on the open market, Cleveland presented a deal closer to Jordan Clarkson's three-year, $51 million back during early extension conversations, sources told B/R.

So "extension conversations" was last year and not this year? As I do not believe Sexton could be extended once the season ended. So this might be regurgitated news from last offseason's negotiations? Or at the very least, one of the Cavs' early opening offers. Unless the Cavs aren't negotiating at all, it's hard to believe that that's the exact number they're sitting on.

As far as your "Sexton got subbed out and that means he's about to get benched" claims, here are his last three games that he finished:
http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20211101&game=CLECHA
http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20211103&game=PORCLE
http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20211105&game=CLETOR

In the Charlotte game, he played in the last minute of the game but didn't close the game; instead Cedi Osman did, presumably because we had a lead and needed a taller defender.

In the Portland game, Sexton closed it out until we went tall (pulling both Sexton and Garland for Wade and Osman) for the last defensive possession.

In the Toronto game, Sexton was put into the lineup in the last minute after sitting most of crunch time (but playing most of the 4th quarter), deployed specifically when we needed a score. (His shot was off all game, possibly leading to him not playing all of crunch time.)

There was only one game all season where Sexton was riding the pine for the entirety of crunch time (against Atlanta earlier in the season, benched for Okoro) on another night where his shot wasn't falling.

All of this leads me to believe that no, Sexton wasn't about to be taken out of the starting lineup based on crunch time usage; he was treated like most teams treat their 4th or 5th best player, subbing him out when his weaknesses hurt him on a given night and leaving him in when his strengths are needed. He wasn't ever losing the starting spot to a specific guy either, with Rubio, Okoro, and Osman being the guy getting minutes from him on a specific night for specific purposes.

Take it fwiw, but I've heard that when the original idea of starting Lauri was being considered, JBB wanted to keep Isaac in the starting lineup and it was the FO who told him that wasn't acceptable.

So, instead they proposed a new role for Collin which he accepted; but if Collin didn't get hurt and his play in his new role didn't improve, odds are he's getting replaced in the starting lineup with Isaac.

The flip side of that is if he did adapt to the new role, we'd have continued forward with Sexland; but when you consider everything that happened and JBB's decisions ... it makes a lot of sense. And personally, I wouldn't even assume JBB will play LeVert ahead of Okoro. Yes it makes sense in a number of ways and we saw it in the last game .vs. Atlanta, but it's not like we won.

Rumors, hearsay, etc.

It's a new year with new decisions to make. Okoro didn't do anything to prove that he's definitely a long-term starter, disappearing in the team's highest-pressure games. Neither did LeVert, struggling to stay healthy and playing the worst partial season of his career with us when he was healthy.

It looks like Sexton wasn't sitting on an offer and Fedor reported that there is "no market" for Collin outside of Cleveland, although that's from another executive. It might just be that SAS/IND are waiting for the Ayton situation to play out and Ayton is waiting for the KD situation to play out, but one report mentioned Sexton only likely getting a low-to-mid-teens offer. I have to believe that Sexton would rather play on the QO than take $13m/year or something. If the cap spikes, that's going to be less than the MLE when the contract's over. It'd be easy to see how Sexton thinks he can get $40m/2y next offseason when half the league has cap space, so the absolute minimum he's taking is $50m over 3 years.

Conveniently that's roughly what Cleveland can offer while staying under that tax with their minimum move of releasing Wade or Stevens. They can afford a bit more by trading Windler/Osman or releasing and stretching them. But Windler has a good relationship with Garland, and Osman had a good relationship with next year's FA target...

Sexton on the QO might be a reasonable outcome, but then I imagine he's only on the team for a year before leaving for greener pastures for nothing next year. In which case I'd rather deal him to Dallas for Bullock or Kleber and a pick than keep him.

[JonFromVA]

The full quote from the Bleacher Report article referenced:

So "extension conversations" was last year and not this year? As I do not believe Sexton could be extended once the season ended. So this might be regurgitated news from last offseason's negotiations? Or at the very least, one of the Cavs' early opening offers. Unless the Cavs aren't negotiating at all, it's hard to believe that that's the exact number they're sitting on.

As far as your "Sexton got subbed out and that means he's about to get benched" claims, here are his last three games that he finished:
http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20211101&game=CLECHA
http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20211103&game=PORCLE
http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20211105&game=CLETOR

In the Charlotte game, he played in the last minute of the game but didn't close the game; instead Cedi Osman did, presumably because we had a lead and needed a taller defender.

In the Portland game, Sexton closed it out until we went tall (pulling both Sexton and Garland for Wade and Osman) for the last defensive possession.

In the Toronto game, Sexton was put into the lineup in the last minute after sitting most of crunch time (but playing most of the 4th quarter), deployed specifically when we needed a score. (His shot was off all game, possibly leading to him not playing all of crunch time.)

There was only one game all season where Sexton was riding the pine for the entirety of crunch time (against Atlanta earlier in the season, benched for Okoro) on another night where his shot wasn't falling.

All of this leads me to believe that no, Sexton wasn't about to be taken out of the starting lineup based on crunch time usage; he was treated like most teams treat their 4th or 5th best player, subbing him out when his weaknesses hurt him on a given night and leaving him in when his strengths are needed. He wasn't ever losing the starting spot to a specific guy either, with Rubio, Okoro, and Osman being the guy getting minutes from him on a specific night for specific purposes.

Take it fwiw, but I've heard that when the original idea of starting Lauri was being considered, JBB wanted to keep Isaac in the starting lineup and it was the FO who told him that wasn't acceptable.

So, instead they proposed a new role for Collin which he accepted; but if Collin didn't get hurt and his play in his new role didn't improve, odds are he's getting replaced in the starting lineup with Isaac.

The flip side of that is if he did adapt to the new role, we'd have continued forward with Sexland; but when you consider everything that happened and JBB's decisions ... it makes a lot of sense. And personally, I wouldn't even assume JBB will play LeVert ahead of Okoro. Yes it makes sense in a number of ways and we saw it in the last game .vs. Atlanta, but it's not like we won.

Rumors, hearsay, etc.

It's a new year with new decisions to make. Okoro didn't do anything to prove that he's definitely a long-term starter, disappearing in the team's highest-pressure games. Neither did LeVert, struggling to stay healthy and playing the worst partial season of his career with us when he was healthy.

It looks like Sexton wasn't sitting on an offer and Fedor reported that there is "no market" for Collin outside of Cleveland, although that's from another executive. It might just be that SAS/IND are waiting for the Ayton situation to play out and Ayton is waiting for the KD situation to play out, but one report mentioned Sexton only likely getting a low-to-mid-teens offer. I have to believe that Sexton would rather play on the QO than take $13m/year or something. If the cap spikes, that's going to be less than the MLE when the contract's over. It'd be easy to see how Sexton thinks he can get $40m/2y next offseason when half the league has cap space, so the absolute minimum he's taking is $50m over 3 years.

Conveniently that's roughly what Cleveland can offer while staying under that tax with their minimum move of releasing Wade or Stevens. They can afford a bit more by trading Windler/Osman or releasing and stretching them. But Windler has a good relationship with Garland, and Osman had a good relationship with next year's FA target...

Sexton on the QO might be a reasonable outcome, but then I imagine he's only on the team for a year before leaving for greener pastures for nothing next year. In which case I'd rather deal him to Dallas for Bullock or Kleber and a pick than keep him.

We can free up a roster spot by releasing a player, but I don't think we can free up any significant cap space unless we can trade a player in to someone else's cap space.

I can imagine some things around the league will need to play out before Rich would even consider accepting the Cavs offer, and if you want to take relationships in to account - none are more important than Darius's and Collin's. As for the QO, it might not be contentious as perhaps you're imaging. The Cavs will still hold Collin's Bird rights and whether his market situation actually improves or if he's one of the last free-agents standing again is tbd.

btw, we won a lot of games with Isaac in the starting lineup. We can't say the same for Collin or Caris. Winning playoff games is putting the cart before the horse.

[Revenged25]

Take it fwiw, but I've heard that when the original idea of starting Lauri was being considered, JBB wanted to keep Isaac in the starting lineup and it was the FO who told him that wasn't acceptable.

So, instead they proposed a new role for Collin which he accepted; but if Collin didn't get hurt and his play in his new role didn't improve, odds are he's getting replaced in the starting lineup with Isaac.

The flip side of that is if he did adapt to the new role, we'd have continued forward with Sexland; but when you consider everything that happened and JBB's decisions ... it makes a lot of sense. And personally, I wouldn't even assume JBB will play LeVert ahead of Okoro. Yes it makes sense in a number of ways and we saw it in the last game .vs. Atlanta, but it's not like we won.

Rumors, hearsay, etc.

It's a new year with new decisions to make. Okoro didn't do anything to prove that he's definitely a long-term starter, disappearing in the team's highest-pressure games. Neither did LeVert, struggling to stay healthy and playing the worst partial season of his career with us when he was healthy.

It looks like Sexton wasn't sitting on an offer and Fedor reported that there is "no market" for Collin outside of Cleveland, although that's from another executive. It might just be that SAS/IND are waiting for the Ayton situation to play out and Ayton is waiting for the KD situation to play out, but one report mentioned Sexton only likely getting a low-to-mid-teens offer. I have to believe that Sexton would rather play on the QO than take $13m/year or something. If the cap spikes, that's going to be less than the MLE when the contract's over. It'd be easy to see how Sexton thinks he can get $40m/2y next offseason when half the league has cap space, so the absolute minimum he's taking is $50m over 3 years.

Conveniently that's roughly what Cleveland can offer while staying under that tax with their minimum move of releasing Wade or Stevens. They can afford a bit more by trading Windler/Osman or releasing and stretching them. But Windler has a good relationship with Garland, and Osman had a good relationship with next year's FA target...

Sexton on the QO might be a reasonable outcome, but then I imagine he's only on the team for a year before leaving for greener pastures for nothing next year. In which case I'd rather deal him to Dallas for Bullock or Kleber and a pick than keep him.

We can free up a roster spot by releasing a player, but I don't think we can free up any significant cap space unless we can trade a player in to someone else's cap space.

I can imagine some things around the league will need to play out before Rich would even consider accepting the Cavs offer, and if you want to take relationships in to account - none are more important than Darius's and Collin's. As for the QO, it might not be contentious as perhaps you're imaging. The Cavs will still hold Collin's Bird rights and whether his market situation actually improves or if he's one of the last free-agents standing again is tbd.

btw, we won a lot of games with Isaac in the starting lineup. We can't say the same for Collin or Caris. Winning playoff games is putting the cart before the horse.

I'd say the wins are more easily attributed to Mobley + Allen than any other variable, definitely not Isaac.

[toooskies]

Take it fwiw, but I've heard that when the original idea of starting Lauri was being considered, JBB wanted to keep Isaac in the starting lineup and it was the FO who told him that wasn't acceptable.

So, instead they proposed a new role for Collin which he accepted; but if Collin didn't get hurt and his play in his new role didn't improve, odds are he's getting replaced in the starting lineup with Isaac.

The flip side of that is if he did adapt to the new role, we'd have continued forward with Sexland; but when you consider everything that happened and JBB's decisions ... it makes a lot of sense. And personally, I wouldn't even assume JBB will play LeVert ahead of Okoro. Yes it makes sense in a number of ways and we saw it in the last game .vs. Atlanta, but it's not like we won.

Rumors, hearsay, etc.

It's a new year with new decisions to make. Okoro didn't do anything to prove that he's definitely a long-term starter, disappearing in the team's highest-pressure games. Neither did LeVert, struggling to stay healthy and playing the worst partial season of his career with us when he was healthy.

It looks like Sexton wasn't sitting on an offer and Fedor reported that there is "no market" for Collin outside of Cleveland, although that's from another executive. It might just be that SAS/IND are waiting for the Ayton situation to play out and Ayton is waiting for the KD situation to play out, but one report mentioned Sexton only likely getting a low-to-mid-teens offer. I have to believe that Sexton would rather play on the QO than take $13m/year or something. If the cap spikes, that's going to be less than the MLE when the contract's over. It'd be easy to see how Sexton thinks he can get $40m/2y next offseason when half the league has cap space, so the absolute minimum he's taking is $50m over 3 years.

Conveniently that's roughly what Cleveland can offer while staying under that tax with their minimum move of releasing Wade or Stevens. They can afford a bit more by trading Windler/Osman or releasing and stretching them. But Windler has a good relationship with Garland, and Osman had a good relationship with next year's FA target...

Sexton on the QO might be a reasonable outcome, but then I imagine he's only on the team for a year before leaving for greener pastures for nothing next year. In which case I'd rather deal him to Dallas for Bullock or Kleber and a pick than keep him.

We can free up a roster spot by releasing a player, but I don't think we can free up any significant cap space unless we can trade a player in to someone else's cap space.

I can imagine some things around the league will need to play out before Rich would even consider accepting the Cavs offer, and if you want to take relationships in to account - none are more important than Darius's and Collin's. As for the QO, it might not be contentious as perhaps you're imaging. The Cavs will still hold Collin's Bird rights and whether his market situation actually improves or if he's one of the last free-agents standing again is tbd.

btw, we won a lot of games with Isaac in the starting lineup. We can't say the same for Collin or Caris. Winning playoff games is putting the cart before the horse.

The space with releasing one of our non-guaranteed guys is the value of their contract. That gets Sexton up to $16.5m or so. Trading Windler for no returning cap gets his max contract to $19m or so. Cedi gets his max contract to $22m or so. (Assuming we are staying under the tax.)

[JonFromVA]

Rumors, hearsay, etc.

It's a new year with new decisions to make. Okoro didn't do anything to prove that he's definitely a long-term starter, disappearing in the team's highest-pressure games. Neither did LeVert, struggling to stay healthy and playing the worst partial season of his career with us when he was healthy.

It looks like Sexton wasn't sitting on an offer and Fedor reported that there is "no market" for Collin outside of Cleveland, although that's from another executive. It might just be that SAS/IND are waiting for the Ayton situation to play out and Ayton is waiting for the KD situation to play out, but one report mentioned Sexton only likely getting a low-to-mid-teens offer. I have to believe that Sexton would rather play on the QO than take $13m/year or something. If the cap spikes, that's going to be less than the MLE when the contract's over. It'd be easy to see how Sexton thinks he can get $40m/2y next offseason when half the league has cap space, so the absolute minimum he's taking is $50m over 3 years.

Conveniently that's roughly what Cleveland can offer while staying under that tax with their minimum move of releasing Wade or Stevens. They can afford a bit more by trading Windler/Osman or releasing and stretching them. But Windler has a good relationship with Garland, and Osman had a good relationship with next year's FA target...

Sexton on the QO might be a reasonable outcome, but then I imagine he's only on the team for a year before leaving for greener pastures for nothing next year. In which case I'd rather deal him to Dallas for Bullock or Kleber and a pick than keep him.

We can free up a roster spot by releasing a player, but I don't think we can free up any significant cap space unless we can trade a player in to someone else's cap space.

I can imagine some things around the league will need to play out before Rich would even consider accepting the Cavs offer, and if you want to take relationships in to account - none are more important than Darius's and Collin's. As for the QO, it might not be contentious as perhaps you're imaging. The Cavs will still hold Collin's Bird rights and whether his market situation actually improves or if he's one of the last free-agents standing again is tbd.

btw, we won a lot of games with Isaac in the starting lineup. We can't say the same for Collin or Caris. Winning playoff games is putting the cart before the horse.

I'd say the wins are more easily attributed to Mobley + Allen than any other variable, definitely not Isaac.

Sum of the parts ... Lauri gives the lineup some spacing, they'd otherwise die without and Isaac boosts the perimeter defense to help compensate for Lauri and Darius.

fwiw, this was a nice lineup for Caris:

Garland-Okoro-LeVert-Markkanen-Mobley

We didn't get to see much of Caris with Allen, but the double big lineup takes a lot of skill to navigate. Darius and Ricky thanks to their ball handling and heads up passing could do it, but it's possible Caris and Collin just won't be able to drive effectively with two bigs around the paint.

But as soon as we get some positive data with Caris or Collin, I'll be glad to admit they have more impact and I suspect so would the Cavs. And of course that's assuming Isaac hasn't improved - which seems unlikely to me - and then our rook could very well be a better version of Isaac in terms of shooting corner 3's, playing D, and backdoor cuts - but he'll have to prove that too.

[jbk1234]

Rumors, hearsay, etc.

It's a new year with new decisions to make. Okoro didn't do anything to prove that he's definitely a long-term starter, disappearing in the team's highest-pressure games. Neither did LeVert, struggling to stay healthy and playing the worst partial season of his career with us when he was healthy.

It looks like Sexton wasn't sitting on an offer and Fedor reported that there is "no market" for Collin outside of Cleveland, although that's from another executive. It might just be that SAS/IND are waiting for the Ayton situation to play out and Ayton is waiting for the KD situation to play out, but one report mentioned Sexton only likely getting a low-to-mid-teens offer. I have to believe that Sexton would rather play on the QO than take $13m/year or something. If the cap spikes, that's going to be less than the MLE when the contract's over. It'd be easy to see how Sexton thinks he can get $40m/2y next offseason when half the league has cap space, so the absolute minimum he's taking is $50m over 3 years.

Conveniently that's roughly what Cleveland can offer while staying under that tax with their minimum move of releasing Wade or Stevens. They can afford a bit more by trading Windler/Osman or releasing and stretching them. But Windler has a good relationship with Garland, and Osman had a good relationship with next year's FA target...

Sexton on the QO might be a reasonable outcome, but then I imagine he's only on the team for a year before leaving for greener pastures for nothing next year. In which case I'd rather deal him to Dallas for Bullock or Kleber and a pick than keep him.

We can free up a roster spot by releasing a player, but I don't think we can free up any significant cap space unless we can trade a player in to someone else's cap space.

I can imagine some things around the league will need to play out before Rich would even consider accepting the Cavs offer, and if you want to take relationships in to account - none are more important than Darius's and Collin's. As for the QO, it might not be contentious as perhaps you're imaging. The Cavs will still hold Collin's Bird rights and whether his market situation actually improves or if he's one of the last free-agents standing again is tbd.

btw, we won a lot of games with Isaac in the starting lineup. We can't say the same for Collin or Caris. Winning playoff games is putting the cart before the horse.

The space with releasing one of our non-guaranteed guys is the value of their contract. That gets Sexton up to $16.5m or so. Trading Windler for no returning cap gets his max contract to $19m or so. Cedi gets his max contract to $22m or so. (Assuming we are staying under the tax.)

I'd rather see Sexton play on Q.O., or in Europe, than deliberately pay him more than his market value because of hurt feelings. We're already 24 hours past the point where teams can officially sign players.

[JonFromVA]

Rumors, hearsay, etc.

It's a new year with new decisions to make. Okoro didn't do anything to prove that he's definitely a long-term starter, disappearing in the team's highest-pressure games. Neither did LeVert, struggling to stay healthy and playing the worst partial season of his career with us when he was healthy.

It looks like Sexton wasn't sitting on an offer and Fedor reported that there is "no market" for Collin outside of Cleveland, although that's from another executive. It might just be that SAS/IND are waiting for the Ayton situation to play out and Ayton is waiting for the KD situation to play out, but one report mentioned Sexton only likely getting a low-to-mid-teens offer. I have to believe that Sexton would rather play on the QO than take $13m/year or something. If the cap spikes, that's going to be less than the MLE when the contract's over. It'd be easy to see how Sexton thinks he can get $40m/2y next offseason when half the league has cap space, so the absolute minimum he's taking is $50m over 3 years.

Conveniently that's roughly what Cleveland can offer while staying under that tax with their minimum move of releasing Wade or Stevens. They can afford a bit more by trading Windler/Osman or releasing and stretching them. But Windler has a good relationship with Garland, and Osman had a good relationship with next year's FA target...

Sexton on the QO might be a reasonable outcome, but then I imagine he's only on the team for a year before leaving for greener pastures for nothing next year. In which case I'd rather deal him to Dallas for Bullock or Kleber and a pick than keep him.

We can free up a roster spot by releasing a player, but I don't think we can free up any significant cap space unless we can trade a player in to someone else's cap space.

I can imagine some things around the league will need to play out before Rich would even consider accepting the Cavs offer, and if you want to take relationships in to account - none are more important than Darius's and Collin's. As for the QO, it might not be contentious as perhaps you're imaging. The Cavs will still hold Collin's Bird rights and whether his market situation actually improves or if he's one of the last free-agents standing again is tbd.

btw, we won a lot of games with Isaac in the starting lineup. We can't say the same for Collin or Caris. Winning playoff games is putting the cart before the horse.

The space with releasing one of our non-guaranteed guys is the value of their contract. That gets Sexton up to $16.5m or so. Trading Windler for no returning cap gets his max contract to $19m or so. Cedi gets his max contract to $22m or so. (Assuming we are staying under the tax.)

That's the thing. As far as I'm aware, everyone on the roster is fully guaranteed for this season. Have you seen something that indicates otherwise?

[JonFromVA]

We can free up a roster spot by releasing a player, but I don't think we can free up any significant cap space unless we can trade a player in to someone else's cap space.

I can imagine some things around the league will need to play out before Rich would even consider accepting the Cavs offer, and if you want to take relationships in to account - none are more important than Darius's and Collin's. As for the QO, it might not be contentious as perhaps you're imaging. The Cavs will still hold Collin's Bird rights and whether his market situation actually improves or if he's one of the last free-agents standing again is tbd.

btw, we won a lot of games with Isaac in the starting lineup. We can't say the same for Collin or Caris. Winning playoff games is putting the cart before the horse.

The space with releasing one of our non-guaranteed guys is the value of their contract. That gets Sexton up to $16.5m or so. Trading Windler for no returning cap gets his max contract to $19m or so. Cedi gets his max contract to $22m or so. (Assuming we are staying under the tax.)

I'd rather see Sexton play on Q.O., or in Europe, than deliberately pay him more than his market value because of hurt feelings. We're already 24 hours past the point where teams can officially sign players.

If the goal is to trade him, then signing him for his market value is very important, otherwise it's more about his projected value to the Cavs and if the difference between the two sides is small (and I'm not sure that it is) I have no problem with the Cavs finding a way to up their offer a bit.

But there are some very basic questions with our glut of SG's like is having Collin on the roster better than having someone we might have to dump, or losing a pick/cash in that dump, or starting the luxury tax timer early, or locking up money we could spend next off-season, etc, etc.

[jbk1234]

The space with releasing one of our non-guaranteed guys is the value of their contract. That gets Sexton up to $16.5m or so. Trading Windler for no returning cap gets his max contract to $19m or so. Cedi gets his max contract to $22m or so. (Assuming we are staying under the tax.)

I'd rather see Sexton play on Q.O., or in Europe, than deliberately pay him more than his market value because of hurt feelings. We're already 24 hours past the point where teams can officially sign players.

If the goal is to trade him, then signing him for his market value is very important, otherwise it's more about his projected value to the Cavs and if the difference between the two sides is small (and I'm not sure that it is) I have no problem with the Cavs finding a way to up their offer a bit.

But there are some very basic questions with our glut of SG's like is having Collin on the roster better than having someone we might have to dump, or losing a pick/cash in that dump, or starting the luxury tax timer early, or locking up money we could spend next off-season, etc, etc.

All of these are relevant considerations, but you shouldn't be deliberately signing players to contracts that will be difficult to move. Planning and projecting accurately are important skills for a front office, but if a guy like Jaylen Brown becomes available after turning down an extension offer, Sexton will either have trade value on his next deal, or he won't.

The reality is that bringing Sexton back may not work out. There are good reasons to be worried on that front. He might not accept a smaller role once he's on the court. He may continue to prove resistant to coaching. He may struggle participating in offensive sets that are more complex than a basic high PNR. His defensive limitations may prove irreparable. He may lose Bickerstaff's trust in late-game moments. He may end up strictly as a sixth man.

[JonFromVA]

I'd rather see Sexton play on Q.O., or in Europe, than deliberately pay him more than his market value because of hurt feelings. We're already 24 hours past the point where teams can officially sign players.

If the goal is to trade him, then signing him for his market value is very important, otherwise it's more about his projected value to the Cavs and if the difference between the two sides is small (and I'm not sure that it is) I have no problem with the Cavs finding a way to up their offer a bit.

But there are some very basic questions with our glut of SG's like is having Collin on the roster better than having someone we might have to dump, or losing a pick/cash in that dump, or starting the luxury tax timer early, or locking up money we could spend next off-season, etc, etc.

All of these are relevant considerations, but you shouldn't be deliberately signing players to contracts that will be difficult to move. Planning and projecting accurately are important skills for a front office, but if a guy like Jaylen Brown becomes available after turning down an extension offer, Sexton will either have trade value on his next deal, or he won't.

The reality is that bringing Sexton back may not work out. There are good reasons to be worried on that front. He might not accept a smaller role once he's on the court. He may continue to prove resistant to coaching. He may struggle participating in offensive sets that are more complex than a basic high PNR. His defensive limitations may prove irreparable. He may lose Bickerstaff's trust in late-game moments. He may end up strictly as a sixth man.

Yes, there are all sorts of risks for the Cavs to consider, and the most important thing is their plan/strategy for Collin and his interest in accepting it; but it's their job to sort through that.

But if Collin doesn't wreck his value, a small over-pay should not be a hindrance when his value in the first place is being depressed by his RFA status / the uncertainty of his injury, and then consider the salary cap is expected to increase significantly over the course of his new contract.

However, if the Cavs are only signing him to turn around and trade him ASAP, then it's very important not to pay above market.

Otoh, if we're big game hunting, what we really need is for a non-core player to greatly increase their value such that our trade partner would even consider them as a significant asset in the deal. If that's Collin, then paying him a higher salary only makes it easier to match an incoming star. If he's just playing the role of cap space, hey ... we could just hold on to our cap space.