How do you project Jalen Suggs now?

[pepe1991]

Why does PG defense means so much?

Are you being sarcastic?

Perimeter defense is half of all that matters in today's NBA.

Knowing when to go over or under a screen has turned in to the most important skill for PGs.
Suggs being great in year-1 bodes well for his ability to get to a Smart capacity as a combo guard. It is clear that that is Suggs upside. No more than that.

..

Who would you rather have Lillard, Curry, Irving or Suggs, Beverly and Eric Bledsoe? lol

[drsd]

Who would you rather have Lillard, Curry, Irving or Suggs, Beverly and Eric Bledsoe? lol

Interesting that you left Marcus Smart off of your list. Not only becasue that is who I compared Suggs's upside to, bit also, the dude took his team to an NBA Finals.


p.s. I would rather have Suggs over Lillard and Irving, but for non-basketball reasons. And Suggs is a push for me over Beverley and Bledsoe. It's a moo point.

As to Curry: he is probably the 6th best-ever basketball player in the game's history, so, no, I do not project Sugggs to develop to that level.

EDIT: Maybe you meant Seth Curry. I would rather have Suggs.

..

[pepe1991]

Who would you rather have Lillard, Curry, Irving or Suggs, Beverly and Eric Bledsoe? lol

Interesting that you left Marcus Smart off of your list. Not only becasue that is who I compared Suggs's upside to, bit also, the dude took his team to an NBA Finals.


p.s. I would rather have Suggs over Lillard and Irving, but for non-basketball reasons. And Suggs is a push for me over Beverley and Bledsoe. It's a moo point.

As to Curry: he is probably the 6th best-ever basketball player in the game's history, so, no, I do not project Sugggs to develop to that level.

EDIT: Maybe you meant Seth Curry. I would rather have Suggs.

..

2 things about Marcus smart.
1) he spent 54% career at SG
2) He spent 40% of career as bench player

Marucs Smart started being starting PG what ? Last November? In all those years prior he was either backup PG/SG or playing SG . Behind stars like Irving, Walker, IT.
Smart also serves purpose on Celtics because he doesn't require ball in his hands all that much. His usage rate for a season is 18%. He hardly does anything. Rather just lets Tatum and Brown operate and spots up. Suggs has had higher usage rate as a rookie than Smart at any point of his 8 years long career.

I mentioned (Steph) Curry, Irving and Lillard specifically because all 3 are crappy defenders and are often hidden on their teams, "defending" corner 3 guys.

[paperboymafia]

Future 6th man on a decent to good team, starter on mediocre/not so good teams.

I really hope I'm wrong though and am ready for it.

[zaymon]

Why does PG defense means so much?

Are you being sarcastic?

Perimeter defense is half of all that matters in today's NBA.

Knowing when to go over or under a screen has turned in to the most important skill for PGs.
Suggs being great in year-1 bodes well for his ability to get to a Smart capacity as a combo guard. It is clear that that is Suggs upside. No more than that.

..

Who would you rather have Lillard, Curry, Irving or Suggs, Beverly and Eric Bledsoe? lol

Its simple concept.
Game became more perimeter oriented = perimeter defense is more important.
Switching is most successful defensive scheme = you must have strong guards who can defend bigger players and fast bigs who can defend smaller players.

Suggs can do both and thats why he is defensive prototype for his position.
On offense there are players who are offensive engines, there are players who can attack close outs or space the floor and then there is rest.
Suggs is not offensive engine, small chance he will ever be ( but still there is a chance becouse he has elite tools).
For teams that doesnt have point forwards or point centers his skill set is problematic becouse they need their guards to be offensive engines.
For teams that have big offensive engines those defensive guards are propably best archetypes.
Thats why Bucks were good even with Bledsoe and won with Holiday, thats why Celtics made finals with Smart, thats why Wolves made playoffs with Beverley.
The more offense the better but you need to clear some defensive bars to fit.

[Ducklett]

Why does PG defense means so much?

Are you being sarcastic?

Perimeter defense is half of all that matters in today's NBA.

Knowing when to go over or under a screen has turned in to the most important skill for PGs.
Suggs being great in year-1 bodes well for his ability to get to a Smart capacity as a combo guard. It is clear that that is Suggs upside. No more than that.

..

Who would you rather have Lillard, Curry, Irving or Suggs, Beverly and Eric Bledsoe? lol

This is about the silliest question on the boards in a long time. Good work pepe you made me laugh hard.

[p0peye]

I keep hearing that mantra of player improving ever since 2014 and the only player who actually made significant improvement in his game was Vučević.

Do you believe that rookies don't improve after their first season in the nba? Because statistical evidence would say that you are wrong.

This is RealGM, where legends are made in Summer League, improvements don't happen beyond rookie years, and patience is a bad thing.

Don't turn this into straw man argument.

[basketballRob]

It's night and day how much better this team is when Suggs plays. I'm not looking at numbers but that's what I see.

I still think Suggs will be an all-star at some point.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[pepe1991]

Are you being sarcastic?

Perimeter defense is half of all that matters in today's NBA.

Knowing when to go over or under a screen has turned in to the most important skill for PGs.
Suggs being great in year-1 bodes well for his ability to get to a Smart capacity as a combo guard. It is clear that that is Suggs upside. No more than that.

..

Who would you rather have Lillard, Curry, Irving or Suggs, Beverly and Eric Bledsoe? lol

Its simple concept.
Game became more perimeter oriented = perimeter defense is more important.
Switching is most successful defensive scheme = you must have strong guards who can defend bigger players and fast bigs who can defend smaller players.

Suggs can do both and thats why he is defensive prototype for his position.
On offense there are players who are offensive engines, there are players who can attack close outs or space the floor and then there is rest.
Suggs is not offensive engine, small chance he will ever be ( but still there is a chance becouse he has elite tools).
For teams that doesnt have point forwards or point centers his skill set is problematic becouse they need their guards to be offensive engines.
For teams that have big offensive engines those defensive guards are propably best archetypes.
Thats why Bucks were good even with Bledsoe and won with Holiday, thats why Celtics made finals with Smart, thats why Wolves made playoffs with Beverley.
The more offense the better but you need to clear some defensive bars to fit.

So we are just going to pretend that starting PG for Bucks is Jrue Holiday, who does play elite defense but also averages near 20 ppg and SG Kriss Middelton, who indeed averages +20 PG ?

thats why Celtics made finals with Smart

wtf are you even talking about now?
Marcus Smart 2021-22 playoffs: 36 mpg
Marcus Smart 2020-21 playoffs: 38,6 mpg
Marcus Smart 2019-20 playoffs: 36 mpg
Marcus Smart 2018-19: 16 mpg( hurt played 2 games only)
Marcus Smart 2017-18: 30 mpg
Marcus Smart 2016-17: 30 mpg
Marcus Smart 2015-16: 32 mpg

So you are telling me him starting vs him playing execlly same amount of min in 6 different seasons before is reason why they went to finals? Nevermind playing three different Eastern Conference Finals in between with him in different role ? You really think player STARTING opposite of playing execlly same amount of min off bench is difference between passing third round?
OOOOR

maybe, just maybe, they just had bit more luck. Celtics - Heat game was decided within 1 possession ( Jimmy Butler 3 point miss) . That happends on heels of Marcus Smart hot potato brick off top of the board

But that's basketball . You now push narrative him "starting" is somehow difference maker than them not passing 3rd round 3 different times. Celtics would probably not even be in third round in first place, if Middelton could play. But hey....


You are still yet to explain , if perimeter defense is soooo damn important, how team with trash defenders Poole and Curry is current nba champion, where Klay looks like he would be faster lateherally if he drives wheelchairs out there. Maybe it's not as important as you make it sound ? maybe.... I'm not saying perimeter defense is not important overall, i'm saying elite offensive starting PG can break any defense and any individual defender on regular bases. Over 7 games offensive player will always find a way how to get it done. How many "jordan stoppers" were in 90s? every team had one. Nobody actually stopped him.


Suggs rookie year was trash. Comparing him to Marcus Smart feels like rolling off a cliff , trying to stop fall by grabbing twig to hold you.
Marucs Smart works because he is constantly being hidden behind superstars. Whole Celtics team is always made in fashiong where Smart is 4th to 5th offensive option: First move they did this summer was to get Brogdon. Because Brogdon is another point guard who actually has offense and can shoot. Why did they do that? Why they didn't add pure SG if they are so sold on Smart at PG? Answer is very obvious one- because Smart at PG can't get it done. That's why White played so much , that's why even frekaing Preachard was getting burn deep in playoffs. Their offense is stail, slow and predictable whenever Smart is "playmaking". That's why so much offense comes from Tatum and Brown creating things from nothing.

[drsd]

So we are just going to pretend that starting PG for Bucks is Jrue Holiday, who does play elite defense but also averages near 20 ppg and SG Kriss Middelton, who indeed averages +20 PG ?

Your text is defendale, but off-topic. You asked, "Who would you rather have Lillard, Curry, Irving or Suggs, Beverly and Eric Bledsoe?"

My answer was I'd rather have Suggs over Lillard and Irving (for non-basketball reasons), and am agnosting for Beverley and Bledsoe.

To add: the other issue is that Orando needs a youth core and : NONE of the players on your list fit the time-line for Orlando. So, whilst yes the Magic would trade their roster for Curry, it is probably the wrong thing to do, even there.

Suggs rookie year was trash.

Pro-Suggs Homerism is grinding. Suggs barely had an eFG% of 40% last year. That is one of the worst offensive stat-lines ever for a starter in the NBA. If Suggs was not an ace defender, he would be cut by the team given how inefficient he was (is?) offensively.

..

[zaymon]

Who would you rather have Lillard, Curry, Irving or Suggs, Beverly and Eric Bledsoe? lol

Its simple concept.
Game became more perimeter oriented = perimeter defense is more important.
Switching is most successful defensive scheme = you must have strong guards who can defend bigger players and fast bigs who can defend smaller players.

Suggs can do both and thats why he is defensive prototype for his position.
On offense there are players who are offensive engines, there are players who can attack close outs or space the floor and then there is rest.
Suggs is not offensive engine, small chance he will ever be ( but still there is a chance becouse he has elite tools).
For teams that doesnt have point forwards or point centers his skill set is problematic becouse they need their guards to be offensive engines.
For teams that have big offensive engines those defensive guards are propably best archetypes.
Thats why Bucks were good even with Bledsoe and won with Holiday, thats why Celtics made finals with Smart, thats why Wolves made playoffs with Beverley.
The more offense the better but you need to clear some defensive bars to fit.

So we are just going to pretend that starting PG for Bucks is Jrue Holiday, who does play elite defense but also averages near 20 ppg and SG Kriss Middelton, who indeed averages +20 PG ?

thats why Celtics made finals with Smart

wtf are you even talking about now?
Marcus Smart 2021-22 playoffs: 36 mpg
Marcus Smart 2020-21 playoffs: 38,6 mpg
Marcus Smart 2019-20 playoffs: 36 mpg
Marcus Smart 2018-19: 16 mpg( hurt played 2 games only)
Marcus Smart 2017-18: 30 mpg
Marcus Smart 2016-17: 30 mpg
Marcus Smart 2015-16: 32 mpg

So you are telling me him starting vs him playing execlly same amount of min in 6 different seasons before is reason why they went to finals? Nevermind playing three different Eastern Conference Finals in between with him in different role ? You really think player STARTING opposite of playing execlly same amount of min off bench is difference between passing third round?
OOOOR

maybe, just maybe, they just had bit more luck. Celtics - Heat game was decided within 1 possession ( Jimmy Butler 3 point miss) . That happends on heels of Marcus Smart hot potato brick off top of the board

But that's basketball . You now push narrative him "starting" is somehow difference maker than them not passing 3rd round 3 different times. Celtics would probably not even be in third round in first place, if Middelton could play. But hey....


You are still yet to explain , if perimeter defense is soooo damn important, how team with trash defenders Poole and Curry is current nba champion, where Klay looks like he would be faster lateherally if he drives wheelchairs out there. Maybe it's not as important as you make it sound ? maybe.... I'm not saying perimeter defense is not important overall, i'm saying elite offensive starting PG can break any defense and any individual defender on regular bases. Over 7 games offensive player will always find a way how to get it done. How many "jordan stoppers" were in 90s? every team had one. Nobody actually stopped him.


Suggs rookie year was trash. Comparing him to Marcus Smart feels like rolling off a cliff , trying to stop fall by grabbing twig to hold you.
Marucs Smart works because he is constantly being hidden behind superstars. Whole Celtics team is always made in fashiong where Smart is 4th to 5th offensive option: First move they did this summer was to get Brogdon. Because Brogdon is another point guard who actually has offense and can shoot. Why did they do that? Why they didn't add pure SG if they are so sold on Smart at PG? Answer is very obvious one- because Smart at PG can't get it done. That's why White played so much , that's why even frekaing Preachard was getting burn deep in playoffs. Their offense is stail, slow and predictable whenever Smart is "playmaking". That's why so much offense comes from Tatum and Brown creating things from nothing.

I think you didnt even bother to read my post with understanding.
I never wrote Smart is Celtics best player or that he is reason for their success. I wrote that when you have offensive wings, having big switchable guard is popular and successful archetype. Its also easy to blame Smart for all their offensive struggles, but lets be honest Tatum failed even more in the playoffs. Regarding Brogdon i think we all agree its easier to bring offensive guard than offensive wing ? I mentioned Smart once in a sentence and you just brought all your guns to the children party.

Explaining GSW is easy. Most important thing is offensive engine. For Warriors its 1. Curry 2. Green. Surrounding them are Wiggins-mainly defender, Thompson- shooter and once a defender, Green- offensive engine and defender, Looney- defender, Porter- floor spacer and defender, Payton- defender, Poole- secondary creator.
So yeah its cool that you mentioned only non defender on Warriors roster and other player who rides on his experience alone and once was great defender. GSW build around what they got. Notice that while their guards has limitations switching their bigs are smaller but more switchable. I mentioned it in my initial post let me remind you:
Switching is most successful defensive scheme = you must have strong guards who can defend bigger players and fast bigs who can defend smaller players.
I will try to explain it in easier words. You can be more switchable in two ways. Golden State offensive engine is a guard so they lean towards more switchable bigs. Celtics and Bucks offensive engine are forwards so they lean towards more switchable guards. Nuggets offensive engine is center and guard so they lean toward defensive forwards.

[Black and Blue]

The more I watch Suggs the more I see Doug Christie. -A guy who isn't THE guy on a contending team, but is a super important starter. Primarily because he brings his incredible hustle, defense, and an okay enough shot to disrupt opposing teams. Every great team needs a guy who is a pest to the opponent like that.

Like Doug Christie I also gotta be honest...I see Suggs finding more long term success as a shooting guard unless something drastically changes this season.

I'd love if I was proven wrong and Suggs became more than that though.