Does Dallas seem like it should be more of a FA attraction?

[dc]

The one thing I tend to notice about "rating" NBA cities is people inevitably start talking about libraries, public transportation, museums, farmers markets, cafes, the art scene, the % of college graduates, etc......all things that NBA free agents care little about.

I mean if James Harden is a FA, we already know what he looks for in a city and it ain't any of the above mentioned things. The same would apply to a lot of NBA players.

[PizzaSteve]

NYC has very low per capita housing construction. It is the lowest of northeastern cities.



Supply and demand applies to housing. ...or not...

Tokyo is a first world city and has very low rents.

...

As my Tokyo example shows you can have a massive city, high demand and still be affordable if you build enough housing. Coastal America has been taking over by NIMBYs who fight housing development. As a result these cities don't build much and they cost a lot to live in

Interesting, but this is an outlier from a crashed real estate and financing economy.

When I lived in Tokyo in the early 90s it had the highest per sq ft rent in the world along with Hong Kong, and I knew corporate fast track top executives that couldnt afford a home.

Any changes are not from adding capacity. Also, like SF many downtown areas of Tokyo are suprisingly not dense, though extensive public transit is much, much better and makes up for a lot. (note: I lived in a 4 story building with 4 apartments only a few blocks from the Imperial Palace and a Japanese real estate loan portfolio was one of the areas I gave advice about 13B+ real estate portfolio).

Agree that affordable housing is a big issue in SF and similar cities, and that zoning and construction related things can impact supply. It cant be devorced from transit though, as they are yin and yang. People need to get to work and services. Transit is a notable issue in Dallas, though DART is pretty innovative at doing a lot without many resources. Their management are colleagues Ive worked with in the past.

The regional housing/transit authority of SF is a former client and their long term plans are full lots of good data at their site, for those seriously interested. The planning process is very open to public input. http://Www.planbayarea.org. The Dallas plans re here: https://www.nctcog.org/trans/plan/mtp, https://www.dallasecodev.org/609/Housing-Plan. They spend a lot less resources planning.

That said, little of this impacts NBA recruiting IMHO.

[sp6r=underrated]

Tokyo is a first world city and has very low rents.

...

As my Tokyo example shows you can have a massive city, high demand and still be affordable if you build enough housing. Coastal America has been taking over by NIMBYs who fight housing development. As a result these cities don't build much and they cost a lot to live in

Interesting, but this is an outlier from a crashed real estate and financing economy.

When I lived in Tokyo in the early 90s it had the highest per sq ft rent in the world along with Hong Kong, and I knew corporate fast track top executives that couldnt afford a home.

Any changes are not from adding capacity. Also, like SF many downtown areas of Tokyo are suprisingly not dense, though extensive public transit is much, much better and makes up for a lot. (note: I lived in a 4 story building with 4 apartments only a few blocks from the Imperial Palace and a Japanese real estate loan portfolio was one of the areas I gave advice about 13B+ real estate portfolio).

Agree that affordable housing is a big issue in SF and similar cities, and that zoning and construction related things can impact supply. It cant be devorced from transit though, as they are yin and yang. People need to get to work and services.

The regional housing/transit authority is a former client and their long term plans are full lots of good data at their site, for those seriously interested. The planning process is very open to public input. http://Www.planbayarea.org

Tokyo's economy is a factor but by far the biggest problem is we don't build out here. I think you've mentioned you've lived on the peninsula so I'm assuming you've been to Cupertino. It just isn't tenable to keep the region affordable with Cupertino, Apple HQ, 's population density of 5,330.24/sq mi. Same with Mountain View and Alphabet

What Coastal California needs is a revived SB50 that neuters local government and forced development on coastal cities that fight it tooth and nail. Right now Coastal California's development policies are we (i) get the best jobs; (ii) super high income workers or people with parents who homes get nice housing; (iii) everyone else goes on super long commutes.

It is pretty gross. This board has a non-political rule but I'm going to violate. I'm a progressive. The Bay Area is full of progressives. Progressive politics always centers the interests of the working class at its best. Bay Area progressive politics neglects its working class, forces them into mega commutes,and crappy housing in the region. It is why we have such a high homeless population (among the worst in the nation) despite being mega wealthy and spending alot on the homeless. It is also why we have such a low fertility rate, everyone has to save yrs for homes. It is honestly pathetic and morally repulsive.

This doesn't impact NBA players, who make $$$. But it does impact everyone but the most affluent families of the Bay Area

[Deivork]

Interesting, but this is an outlier from a crashed real estate and financing economy.

When I lived in Tokyo in the early 90s it had the highest per sq ft rent in the world along with Hong Kong, and I knew corporate fast track top executives that couldnt afford a home.

Any changes are not from adding capacity. Also, like SF many downtown areas of Tokyo are suprisingly not dense, though extensive public transit is much, much better and makes up for a lot. (note: I lived in a 4 story building with 4 apartments only a few blocks from the Imperial Palace and a Japanese real estate loan portfolio was one of the areas I gave advice about 13B+ real estate portfolio).

Agree that affordable housing is a big issue in SF and similar cities, and that zoning and construction related things can impact supply. It cant be devorced from transit though, as they are yin and yang. People need to get to work and services.

The regional housing/transit authority is a former client and their long term plans are full lots of good data at their site, for those seriously interested. The planning process is very open to public input. http://Www.planbayarea.org

Tokyo's economy is a factor but by far the biggest problem is we don't build out here. I think you've mentioned you've lived on the peninsula so I'm assuming you've been to Cupertino. It just isn't tenable to keep the region affordable with Cupertino, Apple HQ, 's population density of 5,330.24/sq mi. Same with Mountain View and Alphabet

What Coastal California needs is a revived SB50 that neuters local government and forced development on coastal cities that fight it tooth and nail. Right now Coastal California's development policies are we (i) get the best jobs; (ii) super high income workers or people with parents who homes get nice housing; (iii) everyone else goes on super long commutes.

It is pretty gross. This board has a non-political rule but I'm going to violate. I'm a progressive. The Bay Area is full of progressives. Progressive politics always centers the interests of the working class at its best. Bay Area progressive politics neglects its working class, forces them into mega commutes,and crappy housing in the region. It is why we have such a high homeless population (among the worst in the nation) despite being mega wealthy and spending alot on the homeless. It is also why we have such a low fertility rate, everyone has to save yrs for homes. It is honestly pathetic and morally repulsive.

This doesn't impact NBA players, who make $$$. But it does impact everyone but the most affluent families of the Bay Area

Interesting post. But can you call it progressive politics then? Maybe the word needs a reconceptualization.

[BallerTalk]

Spoiler:

WHO CARES!

Okay, so why have major NBA free agents shunned the Mavs for so long?

[jswede]

Great city, charismatic owner, usually good teams contending or on the fringe. Even going back to the 00’s era cant remember a lot of notable FA signings.

Cap space is a problem of course, but im surprised one of these years a marquee FA hasnt wanted to go to Dallas with Luka and Dirk and the history there. Never really hear rumors linking any to them either.

The fact that Dallas is in Texas is going to turn some free agents off because it's a very conservative state, and Dallas is thought of as particularly conservative versus some other cities in the state. Kind of a similar issue with Utah and they've long had problems with race and recruiting.

Possibly the dumbest thing I’ve heard this week.

[PizzaSteve]

Interesting, but this is an outlier from a crashed real estate and financing economy.

When I lived in Tokyo in the early 90s it had the highest per sq ft rent in the world along with Hong Kong, and I knew corporate fast track top executives that couldnt afford a home.

Any changes are not from adding capacity. Also, like SF many downtown areas of Tokyo are suprisingly not dense, though extensive public transit is much, much better and makes up for a lot. (note: I lived in a 4 story building with 4 apartments only a few blocks from the Imperial Palace and a Japanese real estate loan portfolio was one of the areas I gave advice about 13B+ real estate portfolio).

Agree that affordable housing is a big issue in SF and similar cities, and that zoning and construction related things can impact supply. It cant be devorced from transit though, as they are yin and yang. People need to get to work and services.

The regional housing/transit authority is a former client and their long term plans are full lots of good data at their site, for those seriously interested. The planning process is very open to public input. http://Www.planbayarea.org

Tokyo's economy is a factor but by far the biggest problem is we don't build out here. I think you've mentioned you've lived on the peninsula so I'm assuming you've been to Cupertino. It just isn't tenable to keep the region affordable with Cupertino, Apple HQ, 's population density of 5,330.24/sq mi. Same with Mountain View and Alphabet

What Coastal California needs is a revived SB50 that neuters local government and forced development on coastal cities that fight it tooth and nail. Right now Coastal California's development policies are we (i) get the best jobs; (ii) super high income workers or people with parents who homes get nice housing; (iii) everyone else goes on super long commutes.

It is pretty gross. This board has a non-political rule but I'm going to violate. I'm a progressive. The Bay Area is full of progressives. Progressive politics always centers the interests of the working class at its best. Bay Area progressive politics neglects its working class, forces them into mega commutes,and crappy housing in the region. It is why we have such a high homeless population (among the worst in the nation) despite being mega wealthy and spending alot on the homeless. It is also why we have such a low fertility rate, everyone has to save yrs for homes. It is honestly pathetic and morally repulsive.

This doesn't impact NBA players, who make $$$. But it does impact everyone but the most affluent families of the Bay Area

I think this perspective is quite naive, no disrespect intended. Housing policy and the causes and effects of development and rental pricing and their relationship to governments and regulation is a hugely complex topic. My personal experience is deeper than most in this area, but it is way out of scope for this forum. Most people like to blame government and what are fairly reasonable regulations and policies for outcomes that are caused by cost factors and risk factors that have little to do with those frameworks.

I didnt live on the penninsula, though I have worked there in the past. I won't state a position, but will say that my family has created housing stock in a coastal california community at a scale requiring onsite management. Ive also worked in an organization directly responsible for regional housing policy, as a last job dedicated to public service vs money making.

This is a very complex economic topic and honestly has little to do with government policy in terms of progressive vs conservative. Housing affordability issues exist throughout the country. It is more a capitalism vs socialism issue, construction costs, land rights, etc. but we'll leave it at that.

Personally I find it sad that while society has all the resources needed to solve these issues, we prefer to organize around a greed based social model that concentrates huge wealth in a very few hands, and yet people worship the concept of 'opportunity' to the point where they buy into propaganda pushing policies fully intended to distract people (devisive social issues the rich really dont care about) from these issues and to keep it that way.

On topic, my wife did some work for a GM of an NBA team and one thing that seemed to have an impact was a clear plan to have world class, luxury NBA facilities. The gym and lockers are the face of the team, and NBA players visit each city. How slick are Dallas' training facilities and locker rooms for their players? Good management signals that 'nothing is too good for our guys,' and how the training staff and facilities, even locker name tags, in detail, are treated can matter.

[sp6r=underrated]

Interesting, but this is an outlier from a crashed real estate and financing economy.

When I lived in Tokyo in the early 90s it had the highest per sq ft rent in the world along with Hong Kong, and I knew corporate fast track top executives that couldnt afford a home.

Any changes are not from adding capacity. Also, like SF many downtown areas of Tokyo are suprisingly not dense, though extensive public transit is much, much better and makes up for a lot. (note: I lived in a 4 story building with 4 apartments only a few blocks from the Imperial Palace and a Japanese real estate loan portfolio was one of the areas I gave advice about 13B+ real estate portfolio).

Agree that affordable housing is a big issue in SF and similar cities, and that zoning and construction related things can impact supply. It cant be devorced from transit though, as they are yin and yang. People need to get to work and services.

The regional housing/transit authority is a former client and their long term plans are full lots of good data at their site, for those seriously interested. The planning process is very open to public input. http://Www.planbayarea.org

Tokyo's economy is a factor but by far the biggest problem is we don't build out here. I think you've mentioned you've lived on the peninsula so I'm assuming you've been to Cupertino. It just isn't tenable to keep the region affordable with Cupertino, Apple HQ, 's population density of 5,330.24/sq mi. Same with Mountain View and Alphabet

What Coastal California needs is a revived SB50 that neuters local government and forced development on coastal cities that fight it tooth and nail. Right now Coastal California's development policies are we (i) get the best jobs; (ii) super high income workers or people with parents who homes get nice housing; (iii) everyone else goes on super long commutes.

It is pretty gross. This board has a non-political rule but I'm going to violate. I'm a progressive. The Bay Area is full of progressives. Progressive politics always centers the interests of the working class at its best. Bay Area progressive politics neglects its working class, forces them into mega commutes,and crappy housing in the region. It is why we have such a high homeless population (among the worst in the nation) despite being mega wealthy and spending alot on the homeless. It is also why we have such a low fertility rate, everyone has to save yrs for homes. It is honestly pathetic and morally repulsive.

This doesn't impact NBA players, who make $$$. But it does impact everyone but the most affluent families of the Bay Area

I think this perspective is quite naive, no disrespect intended. Housing policy and the causes and effects of development and rental pricing and their relationship to governments and regulation is a hugely complex topic. My personal experience is deeper than most in this area, but it is way out of scope for this forum. Most people like to blame government and what are fairly reasonable regulations and policies for outcomes that are caused by cost factors and risk factors that have little to do with those frameworks.

I didnt live on the penninsula, though I have worked there in the past. I won't state a position, but will say that my family has created housing stock in a coastal california community at a scale requiring onsite management. Ive also worked in an organization directly responsible for regional housing policy, as a last job dedicated to public service vs money making.

This is a very complex economic topic and honestly has little to do with government policy in terms of progressive vs conservative. Housing affordability issues exist throughout the country. It is more a capitalism vs socialism issue, construction costs, land rights, etc. but we'll leave it at that.

Personally I find it sad that while society has all the resources needed to solve these issues, we prefer to organize around a greed based social model that concentrates huge wealth in a very few hands, and yet people worship the concept of 'opportunity' to the point where they buy into propaganda pushing policies fully intended to distract people (devisive social issues the rich really dont care about) from these issues and to keep it that way.

On topic, my wife did some work for a GM of an NBA team and one thing that seemed to have an impact was a clear plan to have world class, luxury NBA facilities. The gym and lockers are the face of the team, and NBA players visit each city. How slick are Dallas' training facilities and locker rooms for their players? Good management signals that 'nothing is too good for our guys,' and how the training staff and facilities, even locker name tags, in detail, are treated can matter.

Prop 13, Zoning, parking minimums, lot size requirements and other restrictions on development in California are the biggest drivers of cost.

I'm going to withdraw from this conversation out of respect for its rules

[e83pw2oa9hl5f]

Texas isn't for everyone...and it might not be appealing to you...but more people are moving to Texas than anywhere else.



https://www.thecentersquare.com/texas/texas-with-no-income-tax-is-the-fastest-growing-state-in-the-u-s/article_d9f5fb2a-5a95-11eb-a33c-9716e1682530.html

True not very fond of Texas. It is a big trip for me, and been there enough to know its just an airport. Florida, I do enjoy as a layover to the islands. No secret that many people are moving to these locations for financial and political reasons. I just do not think those reasons effect but a certain American subset we have seen rise. I said my piece. Be interesting to see how many pages this goes to . I do not care enough about those reasons to keep engaging on this thread with those that have these issues. I just wish them well in these BS times. Take care.

Why are you just hanging out at the airport when in Dallas? There is actually a great nightlife in Dallas. Maybe not on the level of South Beach, Manhattan, or LA but it’s not exactly a desert in Dallas.

My intro was I have been there enough to know the only thing there for me is the airport. I will add, spent 20 years doing business through that state. So its not like I have not spent ample amount of time there, and worked with people daiily from there. To each their own.

[garrick]

NBA players like cities on the coast like NY, Miami or LA.

Maybe something to do with the exciting nightlife so even nice cities like Phoenix and Dallas can seem boring for big free agent names which is why both teams have had to either build via the draft or via trades.

[wegotthabeet]

The risk of that KP trade was that Dallas would tie up cap space in the immediate future and have no space to bring in good players who might want to team up with Doncic. They then extended both KP and THJ which prolonged those commitments. KP was then traded for Bertans and DinWiddie. Part of the problem with the we're-not-a-free-agent destination narrative is that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you convince yourself that you cannot have nice things, you won't.

I'm not sure having actual cap space really matters for a major FA destination. You've seen the Heat sign Butler & Lowry is recent years without any cap space. If players want to be somewhere specific that team can and will facilitate a S&T. Simple as that. Dallas is obviously not one of those markets, Miami is.

[jbk1234]

The risk of that KP trade was that Dallas would tie up cap space in the immediate future and have no space to bring in good players who might want to team up with Doncic. They then extended both KP and THJ which prolonged those commitments. KP was then traded for Bertans and DinWiddie. Part of the problem with the we're-not-a-free-agent destination narrative is that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you convince yourself that you cannot have nice things, you won't.

I'm not sure having actual cap space really matters for a major FA destination. You've seen the Heat sign Butler & Lowry is recent years without any cap space. If players want to be somewhere specific that team can and will facilitate a S&T. Simple as that. Dallas is obviously not one of those markets, Miami is.

Miami had to part with young players and picks to *sign* Butler and Lowry. It matters. Not for nothing, but I thought the Lowry signing was a bad idea if all the Heat had to do was give up future cap space, and they gave up more. Lowry had already started to decline his last couple years in Toronto and I suspect there's not much of a trade market for him on his current contract.

[Meat]

The one thing I tend to notice about "rating" NBA cities is people inevitably start talking about libraries, public transportation, museums, farmers markets, cafes, the art scene, the % of college graduates, etc......all things that NBA free agents care little about.

I mean if James Harden is a FA, we already know what he looks for in a city and it ain't any of the above mentioned things. The same would apply to a lot of NBA players.

Nba players got wives and kids tho and often time that informs their decisions. Why is bron in la again? why did melo wanna come to nyc?

Harden is a free agent and he's not at proximity to KOD or Magic city? why doesn't every free agent sign to the heat?

[Meat]

NBA players like cities on the coast like NY, Miami or LA.

Maybe something to do with the exciting nightlife so even nice cities like Phoenix and Dallas can seem boring for big free agent names which is why both teams have had to either build via the draft or via trades.

There's also a culture, as the game becomes more global more and more port cities become enticing. When I'm sick i want fufu or dal & roti, i can't get that in phoenix certainly not at 3am like i can in nyc. When I'm homesick or missing my momma, **** like that makes a HUGE difference.

[Ruma85]

The one thing I tend to notice about "rating" NBA cities is people inevitably start talking about libraries, public transportation, museums, farmers markets, cafes, the art scene, the % of college graduates, etc......all things that NBA free agents care little about.

I mean if James Harden is a FA, we already know what he looks for in a city and it ain't any of the above mentioned things. The same would apply to a lot of NBA players.

Nba players got wives and kids tho and often time that informs their decisions. Why is bron in la again? why did melo wanna come to nyc?

Harden is a free agent and he's not at proximity to KOD or Magic city? why doesn't every free agent sign to the heat?

What is KOD mean?

[Meat]

The one thing I tend to notice about "rating" NBA cities is people inevitably start talking about libraries, public transportation, museums, farmers markets, cafes, the art scene, the % of college graduates, etc......all things that NBA free agents care little about.

I mean if James Harden is a FA, we already know what he looks for in a city and it ain't any of the above mentioned things. The same would apply to a lot of NBA players.

Nba players got wives and kids tho and often time that informs their decisions. Why is bron in la again? why did melo wanna come to nyc?

Harden is a free agent and he's not at proximity to KOD or Magic city? why doesn't every free agent sign to the heat?

What is KOD mean?

KOD means trouble for your relationship\ finances.

King of Diamonds, it's a strip club franchise

[Texas Chuck]

How slick are Dallas' training facilities and locker rooms for their players? Good management signals that 'nothing is too good for our guys,' and how the training staff and facilities, even locker name tags, in detail, are treated can matter.

I have no idea how they are in comparison with the league as a whole now, but you do realize Mark Cuban was the guy who started all of this right? Building the first building dedicated just to practice. The first guy who realized these incredible athletes shouldn't be sitting in metal folding chairs when on the bench. The highest quality towels, the most technology, the largest coaching and training staff by far. Team pyschologists, FT coaches, a dozen player development staff ,etc....

Dallas had a huge analytics department before any other team as well.

None of this existed to scale before Cuban because he was trying to find every edge he could bring to his team.

So at the very least Dallas is competitive with any team, but more likely they are still at the forefront, because it was Cuban who brought it all into the league.

[wegotthabeet]

The risk of that KP trade was that Dallas would tie up cap space in the immediate future and have no space to bring in good players who might want to team up with Doncic. They then extended both KP and THJ which prolonged those commitments. KP was then traded for Bertans and DinWiddie. Part of the problem with the we're-not-a-free-agent destination narrative is that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you convince yourself that you cannot have nice things, you won't.

I'm not sure having actual cap space really matters for a major FA destination. You've seen the Heat sign Butler & Lowry is recent years without any cap space. If players want to be somewhere specific that team can and will facilitate a S&T. Simple as that. Dallas is obviously not one of those markets, Miami is.

Miami had to part with young players and picks to *sign* Butler and Lowry. It matters. Not for nothing, but I thought the Lowry signing was a bad idea if all the Heat had to do was give up future cap space, and they gave up more. Lowry had already started to decline his last couple years in Toronto and I suspect there's not much of a trade market for him on his current contract.

yeah that's irrelevant. the point is they were major free agents and wanted to sign with a specific team (Miami) that didn't have cap space, yet still found a way to get there. Same with Lebron and Bosh when Miami signed them. If players wanted to go to Dallas having cap space wouldn't matter they could use guys like Bertans and DinWiddie + assets to accommodate a S&T. They don't want to sign in Dallas with or without cap space.

[jbk1234]

I'm not sure having actual cap space really matters for a major FA destination. You've seen the Heat sign Butler & Lowry is recent years without any cap space. If players want to be somewhere specific that team can and will facilitate a S&T. Simple as that. Dallas is obviously not one of those markets, Miami is.

Miami had to part with young players and picks to *sign* Butler and Lowry. It matters. Not for nothing, but I thought the Lowry signing was a bad idea if all the Heat had to do was give up future cap space, and they gave up more. Lowry had already started to decline his last couple years in Toronto and I suspect there's not much of a trade market for him on his current contract.

yeah that's irrelevant. the point is they were major free agents and wanted to sign with a specific team (Miami) that didn't have cap space, yet still found a way to get there. Same with Lebron and Bosh when Miami signed them. If players wanted to go to Dallas having cap space wouldn't matter they could use guys like Bertans and DinWiddie + assets to accommodate a S&T. They don't want to sign in Dallas with or without cap space.

It's not irrelevant, especially when you're talking about a player like Lowry who was well past his sell-by date. Also, Lowry wanted to play with Butler and was likely recruited by him. If Dallas can clear space, and if Doncic starts recruiting, and it doesn't work, then you can conclude no one wants to play in Dallas.

[CharityStripe34]

NBA free-agents, especially the stars, also like the coastal regions because of off-court business opportunities. Just a semi-educated guess (marketing).

Particularly interesting that New York and Chicago haven't really been able to draw major free-agents for quite some time. Huge cities with a lot of culture and nightlife. Snow/winter being the detriment?