Re: Trade Talk (Part Eleven): 2022 Offseason Edition

[PeeDee]

People are blaming MN for screwing up the trade market and thus throwing a monkey wrench in to KD/Irving/Ayton movement. If that's the case and MN is keeping the powerhouse franchises from getting better, then the Gobert trade is even better!

[Neeva]

:lol: People are blaming MN for screwing up the trade market and thus throwing a monkey wrench in to KD/Irving/Ayton movement. If that's the case and MN is keeping the powerhouse franchises from getting better, then the Gobert trade is even better!

Love it, also if this blows up in our faces like they are all predicting. The 2029 pick is top 9 protected. Wolves can easily blow it up in 2028/2029 season. We may lose Ant but I prefer being a fan of a team that knows when to go all in and when to rebuild over constant threadmill.
6 seasons to try for chip in the meantime, lets go.

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

:lol: People are blaming MN for screwing up the trade market and thus throwing a monkey wrench in to KD/Irving/Ayton movement. If that's the case and MN is keeping the powerhouse franchises from getting better, then the Gobert trade is even better!

In the end, a lot of players Brooklyn wants can’t even legally be traded to Brooklyn because of loser Ben Simmons

[winforlose]

:lol: People are blaming MN for screwing up the trade market and thus throwing a monkey wrench in to KD/Irving/Ayton movement. If that's the case and MN is keeping the powerhouse franchises from getting better, then the Gobert trade is even better!

In the end, a lot of players Brooklyn wants can’t even legally be traded to Brooklyn because of loser Ben Simmons

If I am Brooklyn I keep KD and Kyrie regardless of what they want. Then I trade Simmons to whoever will take him and say ***** it. They don’t own their own picks, getting crap like Westbrook back doesn’t help anything. The million dollar question is what is the value of Ben Simmons at this point?

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

:lol: People are blaming MN for screwing up the trade market and thus throwing a monkey wrench in to KD/Irving/Ayton movement. If that's the case and MN is keeping the powerhouse franchises from getting better, then the Gobert trade is even better!

In the end, a lot of players Brooklyn wants can’t even legally be traded to Brooklyn because of loser Ben Simmons

If I am Brooklyn I keep KD and Kyrie regardless of what they want. Then I trade Simmons to whoever will take him and say ***** it. They don’t own their own picks, getting crap like Westbrook back doesn’t help anything. The million dollar question is what is the value of Ben Simmons at this point?

I’m in the same boat. Ben has no value. He’s likely turned off every GM and every soon to be GM. Brooklyn shoulda just stood Pat with KI and KD with jarret Allen, caris Lavert etc

Trading for loser harden was such bad move

[winforlose]

In the end, a lot of players Brooklyn wants can’t even legally be traded to Brooklyn because of loser Ben Simmons

If I am Brooklyn I keep KD and Kyrie regardless of what they want. Then I trade Simmons to whoever will take him and say ***** it. They don’t own their own picks, getting crap like Westbrook back doesn’t help anything. The million dollar question is what is the value of Ben Simmons at this point?

I’m in the same boat. Ben has no value. He’s likely turned off every GM and every soon to be GM. Brooklyn shoulda just stood Pat with KI and KD with jarret Allen, caris Lavert etc

Trading for loser harden was such bad move

Ironically I think the move was designed to keep KD and Kyrie. Those guys remind me of the fable of the scorpion and the frog. Doesn’t matter how good a team is to them, they will always sting. Especially KD.

Has it been announced that Simmons will even be healthy enough to play in October? I sure as **** wouldn’t want to take a chance on him. Maybe a team like NYK or OKC might?

[andyhop]

We used the Non-Taxpayer MLE to sign Anderson. For those interested, this is different than the Room MLE or the Taxpayer MLE.

We currently sit at $7.56M under the luxury tax line with 11 roster spots and 2 two-way players left to sign. If we use the BAE, we would be hard capped for the season at the apron level ($6M over the luxury tax line or $13.56M over where we currently sit). Probably not a big deal unless we are trying to trade DLo at the trade deadline while taking on an extra $6M of salary.

Filling out our roster, we have 4 roster spots plus 2 two-way spots. Let's say we don't care about the luxury tax:

*two way $86,946
*two way $86,946
*BAE $4,105,000
*Vet Min $1,836,090 (note: we also still have $1,709,512 of the MLE, but is less than the vet min number)
*Vet Min $1,836,090
Total = $0.4M into the luxury tax.

If we wanted to stay out of the luxury tax, we could always hold off on signing the 15th roster spot until we know we need it, and by then, we would likely have saved $0.4M off the minimum salary.


http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q20

I check a few days ago and can confirm that two way deals do not impact the cap or tax. Also, a good reason to use the BAE and hard cap ourselves this year is that next year we are almost certainly going to be a high tax team. Between Dlo, Naz, Nowell extensions, Spagnola coming over and tax payer MLE we will not be able to use BAE anyway. Might as well do it now and secure the best available player.

The downside is that using the BAE requires us staying at 14 players until after contracts are pro rated. If we don’t use the BAE we could tap into the buy out market when it happens mid season and get a 15th sooner (potentially better player.) It is gamble either way.

The other option is to sign a rookie to the 15th roster spot (Minott, Spagnola, UDFA), or Wright or Knight might be cheap enough to save $400K compared to a vet min.

Looking at the projected Luxury cap payments non tax teams will get that $400K into the tax,would not only set up the team to be in the repeater tax bracket quicker increasing their payments in future years but would also cost them a $12.5m share of the tax from this coming season

[younggunsmn]

Yes. Kyle Anderson’s deal was for $8,780,488, and I believe we specifically left enough of the $10,490,000 MLE to be able to sign an undrafted, rookie, or one-year player to a Gupta Special deal, if they emerge as a legit prospect in Summer League, like Naz did a few years ago.

I believe we also have the Vando TPE from the Gobert trade, which is worth $4,320,000.

Interesting. Gives us enough left to maybe make a waiver claim too.
We're at 12 roster spots now, I don't think we'll go into the season with more than 14 filled for flexibility.
Might be a lot of competition for those last 2 spots and they may wait out training camp cuts to fill at least one.

I know that 4.3 mil TPE is possible, I have yet to see it verified anywhere yet.
Utah would have to trade an asset in a separate trade for vando, as little as cash, a top 59 protected 2nd or rights to a foreign player. Haven't seen that yet.

I think its 99% we avoid the luxury tax this year, so I'd be very very surprised if we went into the luxury tax.
I expect minimum contracts for those last 2 roster spots.
If Minott wants more than a 2 way he might have to earn it.
Will be interesting to see if someone on our summer league team can earn a 2-way, ideally you have a big and a PG for injury protection in those 2 slots.

How the rotation sorts out could affect things. If they swap KAT and Rudy out as a unit and go with Naz/Slomo in the 2nd unit (don't like that idea), or stagger them. If they stagger them, it could greatly reduce Naz's role and expand Anderson/Princes.
If so, it might be a good idea to replenish some of those 2nd round picks we are missing by trading Naz.

Next year's cap situation is interesting. We won't necessarily have to be in the luxury tax, we can keep the core together and avoid it.
But Russell, Naz, and Nowell will also all be unrestricted free agents and if they leave we will have to spend to replace, for sure with Russell and for Nowell's bench role.
How we do this season will be important long term, as next summer will be our last chance to add a good player with the full MLE and BAE, and winning will play an important part in attracting the best talent.
We will be in the tax for 24-25 for sure with just 3 players making 95% of the cap, plus Russell or a Russell replacement.

[Klomp]

I think an important note regarding the luxury tax is the potential cap spike the year after. With that huge jump, I think it lessens the likelihood for the repeater's tax even in our current situation, so dipping in this next season might not be as much of a dealbreaker.

[Norseman79]

Orlando has a glut of PGs and C's, what about using Vando trade exception for Hampton and Mo Wagner. Gives them some cap space and us PG and C depth? It works number wise.

[Neeva]

Orlando has a glut of PGs and C's, what about using Vando trade exception for Hampton and Mo Wagner. Gives them some cap space and us PG and C depth? It works number wise.

Deal what do we give them just capspace? Wagner likes playing at target.

[Norseman79]

Orlando has a glut of PGs and C's, what about using Vando trade exception for Hampton and Mo Wagner. Gives them some cap space and us PG and C depth? It works number wise.

Deal what do we give them just capspace? Wagner likes playing at target.

Yeah, no idea if they do it though

[shrink]

We just don’t have pieces to trade any more.

Rudy Gobert - no
Karl-Anthony Towns - no
D'Angelo Russell - we need to see him raise his value next to Gobert.
Anthony Edwards -hell no
Kyle Anderson - illegal until December
Taurean Prince - unlikely - he has extra value here as culture leader with PatBev gone
Wendell Moore Jr. - illegal
Jaden McDaniels - no
Jordan McLaughlin - extra value here, to Finch
Jaylen Nowell - no, Connelly endorsed him, and says his improvement is key along with Ant and JMac
Naz Reid - unlikely
Bryn Forbes - illegal until December

We could add three more salaried players and two two-ways, but that’s likely through free agency (vet min deals or BAE). Our one “trade” piece could be to simply absorb anther team’s contract with the new, $4,374,000 TPE.

[Biff Cooper]

We just don’t have pieces to trade any more.

Rudy Gobert - no
Karl-Anthony Towns - no
D'Angelo Russell - we need to see him raise his value next to Gobert.
Anthony Edwards -hell no
Kyle Anderson - illegal until December
Taurean Prince - unlikely - he has extra value here as culture leader with PatBev gone
Wendell Moore Jr. - illegal
Jaden McDaniels - no
Jordan McLaughlin - extra value here, to Finch
Jaylen Nowell - no, Connelly endorsed him, and says his improvement is key along with Ant and JMac
Naz Reid - unlikely
Bryn Forbes - illegal until December

We could add three more salaried players and two two-ways, but that’s likely through free agency (vet min deals or BAE). Our one “trade” piece could be to simply absorb anther team’s contract with the new, $4,374,000 TPE.

Yeah - unless a team is just trying to salary dump, there isn't a whole lot of anything we can trade. I could possibly see a Wendell Moore or Naz Reid trade before the season starts if the right player was made available. Still probably unlikely. It was good to make the TPE, but likely not used this offseason.

[old school 34]

We just don’t have pieces to trade any more.

Rudy Gobert - no
Karl-Anthony Towns - no
D'Angelo Russell - we need to see him raise his value next to Gobert.
Anthony Edwards -hell no
Kyle Anderson - illegal until December
Taurean Prince - unlikely - he has extra value here as culture leader with PatBev gone
Wendell Moore Jr. - illegal
Jaden McDaniels - no
Jordan McLaughlin - extra value here, to Finch
Jaylen Nowell - no, Connelly endorsed him, and says his improvement is key along with Ant and JMac
Naz Reid - unlikely
Bryn Forbes - illegal until December

We could add three more salaried players and two two-ways, but that’s likely through free agency (vet min deals or BAE). Our one “trade” piece could be to simply absorb anther team’s contract with the new, $4,374,000 TPE.

Yeah - unless a team is just trying to salary dump, there isn't a whole lot of anything we can trade. I could possibly see a Wendell Moore or Naz Reid trade before the season starts if the right player was made available. Still probably unlikely. It was good to make the TPE, but likely not used this offseason.

I agree for the most part trades at this point are going to be extremely limited. DLo trade for spare parts with guys that potentially take on financial yrs...personally, I'd avoid this & I believe they will as well.

The only two deals though that I feel has a real chance: 1) just absorb I guy that has a roster crunch in our TE & 2nd is Naz trade still? It won't be much...but if ultimately--we're signing another vet minimum big...then, I just don't see a path for him & you basically have his reset button sitting right in front of you in Knight on a fresh Gupta special...if all you got for him was future 2nds...that would have significant value for us...my preference though is still maybe a better positional roster fit type of move? Say Naz for a young PG that might have a chance....earlier someone throughout Orl & Hampton...he was somebody that I was leaning towards as well, but watching him play Thursday night...just really concerned with how slow he processed info to make decisions for a 3rd yr PG already. Say 2nd choice right now...might be McBride with NY...defensive POA guy...NY is flush with PG's...maybe there's a match there? But currently, my first choice would be JD Davison with Boston....liked him as a high ceiling 2nd round roll of the dice type guy for us...still may not be ready if absolutely needed this year but could be worse? Extreme perfect situation, we send Boston Naz (who needs another big there as well & now flush with combo G's after Brogden deal) for JD's draft rights...thus allowing us to make JD & Minott our two 2-ways....Knight gets a Gupta special deal & we still fill 2 of the 3 open roster spots with vet minimums (again perfect world, say--Bledsoe & Green or Favors after eventually one or both are bought out by OKC).

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

[Nick K]

We just don’t have pieces to trade any more.

Rudy Gobert - no
Karl-Anthony Towns - no
D'Angelo Russell - we need to see him raise his value next to Gobert.
Anthony Edwards -hell no
Kyle Anderson - illegal until December
Taurean Prince - unlikely - he has extra value here as culture leader with PatBev gone
Wendell Moore Jr. - illegal
Jaden McDaniels - no
Jordan McLaughlin - extra value here, to Finch
Jaylen Nowell - no, Connelly endorsed him, and says his improvement is key along with Ant and JMac
Naz Reid - unlikely
Bryn Forbes - illegal until December

We could add three more salaried players and two two-ways, but that’s likely through free agency (vet min deals or BAE). Our one “trade” piece could be to simply absorb anther team’s contract with the new, $4,374,000 TPE.

I'm liking us just as we are. PG might be the only area of concern if/when Dlo goes down for a few games.

Fortunately we have guys who can bring the ball up the floor e.g. Nowell, Moore, Ant.

[shrink]

We just don’t have pieces to trade any more.

Rudy Gobert - no
Karl-Anthony Towns - no
D'Angelo Russell - we need to see him raise his value next to Gobert.
Anthony Edwards -hell no
Kyle Anderson - illegal until December
Taurean Prince - unlikely - he has extra value here as culture leader with PatBev gone
Wendell Moore Jr. - illegal
Jaden McDaniels - no
Jordan McLaughlin - extra value here, to Finch
Jaylen Nowell - no, Connelly endorsed him, and says his improvement is key along with Ant and JMac
Naz Reid - unlikely
Bryn Forbes - illegal until December

We could add three more salaried players and two two-ways, but that’s likely through free agency (vet min deals or BAE). Our one “trade” piece could be to simply absorb anther team’s contract with the new, $4,374,000 TPE.

I'm liking us just as we are. PG might be the only area of concern if/when Dlo goes down for a few games.

Fortunately we have guys who can bring the ball up the floor e.g. Nowell, Moore, Ant.

I’m with you - I don’t see any glaring holes. In fact, I recently posted a wide open question on the Trade Board about who MIN should target with the Vando exception. I intentionally posted our whole line up, rather than say “we need an X,” because I wanted others to look at the roster, and see weaknesses that I don’t see.

The truth is, it probably didn’t go too well. People have a general feel for the Wolves, but they don’t understand what we see on a deeper level, that guys they don’t know like Nowell, MacLaughlin and McDaniels are going to get major minutes.

For the record, Trey Burke and Ty Jerome received multiple endorsements.

[Nick K]

We just don’t have pieces to trade any more.

Rudy Gobert - no
Karl-Anthony Towns - no
D'Angelo Russell - we need to see him raise his value next to Gobert.
Anthony Edwards -hell no
Kyle Anderson - illegal until December
Taurean Prince - unlikely - he has extra value here as culture leader with PatBev gone
Wendell Moore Jr. - illegal
Jaden McDaniels - no
Jordan McLaughlin - extra value here, to Finch
Jaylen Nowell - no, Connelly endorsed him, and says his improvement is key along with Ant and JMac
Naz Reid - unlikely
Bryn Forbes - illegal until December

We could add three more salaried players and two two-ways, but that’s likely through free agency (vet min deals or BAE). Our one “trade” piece could be to simply absorb anther team’s contract with the new, $4,374,000 TPE.

I'm liking us just as we are. PG might be the only area of concern if/when Dlo goes down for a few games.

Fortunately we have guys who can bring the ball up the floor e.g. Nowell, Moore, Ant.

I’m with you - I don’t see any glaring holes. In fact, I recently posted a wide open question on the Trade Board about who MIN should target with the Vando exception. I intentionally posted our whole line up, rather than say “we need an X,” because I wanted others to look at the roster, and see weaknesses that I don’t see.

The truth is, it probably didn’t go too well. People have a general feel for the Wolves, but they don’t understand what we see on a deeper level, that guys they don’t know like Nowell, MacLaughlin and McDaniels are going to get major minutes.

For the record, Trey Burke and Ty Jerome received multiple endorsements.

Yep. I'm amazed that 3 years ago we were an impossible mess with just a few of good players. then Rosas blew it up and moved all those bodies which was amazing in itself.

Look at the difference in roster balance last year to this year. Night and day. We now have the makeup of a championship team. I wouldn't trade our roster with any other team. This might be my favorite roster of all time and I've been there since day 1. We are deeper than in the KG days 2003.

I hate to say this but I really believe we can win a Championship with this team. Frankly, I'll be disappointed if we don't go to WCF this year. High expectations are good.

BTW, I'd like to leave a roster spot open but I'd be OK with either Burke or Jerome. I liked them both on draft day. I did think Burke would be better though.

[winforlose]

I'm liking us just as we are. PG might be the only area of concern if/when Dlo goes down for a few games.

Fortunately we have guys who can bring the ball up the floor e.g. Nowell, Moore, Ant.

I’m with you - I don’t see any glaring holes. In fact, I recently posted a wide open question on the Trade Board about who MIN should target with the Vando exception. I intentionally posted our whole line up, rather than say “we need an X,” because I wanted others to look at the roster, and see weaknesses that I don’t see.

The truth is, it probably didn’t go too well. People have a general feel for the Wolves, but they don’t understand what we see on a deeper level, that guys they don’t know like Nowell, MacLaughlin and McDaniels are going to get major minutes.

For the record, Trey Burke and Ty Jerome received multiple endorsements.

Yep. I'm amazed that 3 years ago we were an impossible mess with just a few of good players. then Rosas blew it up and moved all those bodies which was amazing in itself.

Look at the difference in roster balance last year to this year. Night and day. We now have the makeup of a championship team. I wouldn't trade our roster with any other team. This might be my favorite roster of all time and I've been there since day 1. We are deeper than in the KG days 2003.

I hate to say this but I really believe we can win a Championship with this team. Frankly, I'll be disappointed if we don't go to WCF this year. High expectations are good.

BTW, I'd like to leave a roster spot open but I'd be OK with either Burke or Jerome. I liked them both on draft day. I did think Burke would be better though.

Let’s be fair here, how much was the trading and how much was the drafting/scouting undrafted FAs. Naz is found money, JMAC is not great but for a 3rd string PG at his price is found money. Nowell, Minott, and traded for V8 all look like found money from the 2nd round. Ant and MCD are both huge hits on the draft front. Culver was the centerpiece in getting Bev for the culture setting.

Also worth noting that Finch made a HUGE IMPACT. Ryan could have done more to make the older roster work, but he didn’t. Finch unlocked KAT on defense and now has finally fully transitioned him to the 4.

I am not saying the roster shuffle wasn’t important. I am saying that it doesn’t tell the whole story. Quite honestly I don’t even think it tells half of the story.

[Nick K]

I’m with you - I don’t see any glaring holes. In fact, I recently posted a wide open question on the Trade Board about who MIN should target with the Vando exception. I intentionally posted our whole line up, rather than say “we need an X,” because I wanted others to look at the roster, and see weaknesses that I don’t see.

The truth is, it probably didn’t go too well. People have a general feel for the Wolves, but they don’t understand what we see on a deeper level, that guys they don’t know like Nowell, MacLaughlin and McDaniels are going to get major minutes.

For the record, Trey Burke and Ty Jerome received multiple endorsements.

Yep. I'm amazed that 3 years ago we were an impossible mess with just a few of good players. then Rosas blew it up and moved all those bodies which was amazing in itself.

Look at the difference in roster balance last year to this year. Night and day. We now have the makeup of a championship team. I wouldn't trade our roster with any other team. This might be my favorite roster of all time and I've been there since day 1. We are deeper than in the KG days 2003.

I hate to say this but I really believe we can win a Championship with this team. Frankly, I'll be disappointed if we don't go to WCF this year. High expectations are good.

BTW, I'd like to leave a roster spot open but I'd be OK with either Burke or Jerome. I liked them both on draft day. I did think Burke would be better though.

Let’s be fair here, how much was the trading and how much was the drafting/scouting undrafted FAs. Naz is found money, JMAC is not great but for a 3rd string PG at his price is found money. Nowell, Minott, and traded for V8 all look like found money from the 2nd round. Ant and MCD are both huge hits on the draft front. Culver was the centerpiece in getting Bev for the culture setting.

Also worth noting that Finch made a HUGE IMPACT. Ryan could have done more to make the older roster work, but he didn’t. Finch unlocked KAT on defense and now has finally fully transitioned him to the 4.

I am not saying the roster shuffle wasn’t important. I am saying that it doesn’t tell the whole story. Quite honestly I don’t even think it tells half of the story.

For sure. How could I not mention Finch? He's the straw that stirs the drink. I love Flip but I'd take Finch as the better coach.

I think you missed my point above. I was referring to the front office moves in general and overall, (one could nit-pick the specifics). You can't be right all the time.

I would argue that the Rudy trade alone was addition by subtraction. Look at the difference from last year to right now. We cleared out good players that weren't really going to win us a championship and balanced the roster at the same time. I'm amazed at how far we've come in such little time.