Lebron James/Stephen Curry vs Magic Johnson/Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

[JordansBulls]

I mean, kyrie irving took more shots than lebron in cleveland and so did wade their first year together

Lebron has no issue with sharing the spotlight

That is precisely my point, yes. Lebron doesn't have an issue sharing. There's a limited number of shots that you get from iso players and PnR spammers, for sure, but an off-ball guy isn't going to have issues getting shots on a team with a guy who loves to hit shooters.

Yup.

Same old narratives disproven by data that showed what actually happened but posters who never change their minds about their narratives (such as in this thread) will hand wave away it all:

2017 Cavs’ Usage %

Kyrie, 30.8% (only 27.7% of Kyrie’s shots were catch and shoots; 67.4% were pull-ups he created)
LeBron, 30.0%

Playoffs:

Kyrie: 31.1% (only 16.5% were catch and shoots; 70.4% were pull ups he created)
LeBron: 31.6%

2016 Cavs’ Usage %

Kyrie, 29.5% (only 30.9% of Kyrie’s shots were catch and shots; 61.2% were pull-ups he created)
LeBron, 31.4%

Playoffs:

Kyrie: 30.4% (only 22.4% were catch and shoots; 71.8% were pull ups he created)
LeBron: 30.7%

stats.nba.com also has stats on time holding he ball and dribbles per touch. Kyrie held the ball longer when he had it than LeBron did and took more dribbles.

Which other ATG offensive engine had a teammate who had a 30% usage rate?

You are talking about after he joined a star player. What did he do when no one was a star and became a star playing with him?

[Colbinii]

I mean, kyrie irving took more shots than lebron in cleveland and so did wade their first year together

Lebron has no issue with sharing the spotlight

That is precisely my point, yes. Lebron doesn't have an issue sharing. There's a limited number of shots that you get from iso players and PnR spammers, for sure, but an off-ball guy isn't going to have issues getting shots on a team with a guy who loves to hit shooters.

Yup.

Same old narratives disproven by data that showed what actually happened but posters who never change their minds about their narratives (such as in this thread) will hand wave away it all:

2017 Cavs’ Usage %

Kyrie, 30.8% (only 27.7% of Kyrie’s shots were catch and shoots; 67.4% were pull-ups he created)
LeBron, 30.0%

Playoffs:

Kyrie: 31.1% (only 16.5% were catch and shoots; 70.4% were pull ups he created)
LeBron: 31.6%

2016 Cavs’ Usage %

Kyrie, 29.5% (only 30.9% of Kyrie’s shots were catch and shots; 61.2% were pull-ups he created)
LeBron, 31.4%

Playoffs:

Kyrie: 30.4% (only 22.4% were catch and shoots; 71.8% were pull ups he created)
LeBron: 30.7%

stats.nba.com also has stats on time holding he ball and dribbles per touch. Kyrie held the ball longer when he had it than LeBron did and took more dribbles.

Which other ATG offensive engine had a teammate who had a 30% usage rate?

Can you provide LeBrons catch and shoot and roll man stats as well?

[70sFan]

Magic and Kareem, as I don't have any concerns with their fit on the court and off the court. Besides, I think they are better - not by a lot (actually the opposite), but still.

This one flew past me. I can't imagine a situation where the off-ball guy and the on-ball guy don't mesh very well together.

I didn't say they wouldn't, I just said that Magic/Kareem had a proven fit and I'm sure they would go along well off the court.

[tsherkin]

I didn't say they wouldn't, I just said that Magic/Kareem had a proven fit and I'm sure they would go along well off the court.

I get you, I'm just... I guess I don't see the potential for conflict. Steph has proven more than happy to work with some difficult personalities. He won titles with Durant, and he's not even as good as Lebron. And he's an off-ball guy, the best off-ball guy we've ever seen, so there's no on-court issue. Like, I get we have seen Magic and KAJ play and how their personalities meshed (at that point in KAJ's career), but there isn't really anything to suggest conflict between Lebron and Steph.

Ah well. We can't actually know, for sure, so that's certainly a thing. Does your answer change if we consider playing in the modern era versus the 80s? And what about if Kareem was younger versus where he was when he actually met Magic?

[70sFan]

I didn't say they wouldn't, I just said that Magic/Kareem had a proven fit and I'm sure they would go along well off the court.

I get you, I'm just... I guess I don't see the potential for conflict. Steph has proven more than happy to work with some difficult personalities. He won titles with Durant, and he's not even as good as Lebron. And he's an off-ball guy, the best off-ball guy we've ever seen, so there's no on-court issue. Like, I get we have seen Magic and KAJ play and how their personalities meshed (at that point in KAJ's career), but there isn't really anything to suggest conflict between Lebron and Steph.

Ah well. We can't actually know, for sure, so that's certainly a thing. Does your answer change if we consider playing in the modern era versus the 80s? And what about if Kareem was younger versus where he was when he actually met Magic?

In my opinion, it's not Curry who is concerning here. I'm not one of those who believe that LeBron is a toxic teammate, but he made some questionable moves in his career and it should be taken into account.

I think I'd still prefer Lakers duo for modern game and I'm well aware it's controversial.

[tsherkin]

In my opinion, it's not Curry who is concerning here. I'm not one of those who believe that LeBron is a toxic teammate, but he made some questionable moves in his career and it should be taken into account.

We disagree there, heh. I think Lebron is fine as long as he is in position to win, and that after Dan Gilbert frittered away his first run in Cleveland with incompetence and boobery, he decided he didn't want to stand for that any more... which I understand.

I think I'd still prefer Lakers duo for modern game and I'm well aware it's controversial.

It's an interesting stance. I suppose it depends on which Magic you get. Older Magic with a little bit of a 3pt shot changes the game a little, because it allows him to slot more nicely into the contemporary game. I think that, as a center, KAJ is probably the one who least needs a three. He "only" has 15 feet of range, but with 4 three-point shooters, that ultimately wouldn't matter so much I think. They'd be a competitive pair. Personally, I think Lebron and Steph end up more potent together but it's not like we're working against Shareef Abdur-Rahim and Mike Bibby, right?

[70sFan]

We disagree there, heh. I think Lebron is fine as long as he is in position to win, and that after Dan Gilbert frittered away his first run in Cleveland with incompetence and boobery, he decided he didn't want to stand for that any more... which I understand.

I'm not really talking about the decision here, more about his later career choices.

It's an interesting stance. I suppose it depends on which Magic you get. Older Magic with a little bit of a 3pt shot changes the game a little, because it allows him to slot more nicely into the contemporary game. I think that, as a center, KAJ is probably the one who least needs a three. He "only" has 15 feet of range, but with 4 three-point shooters, that ultimately wouldn't matter so much I think. They'd be a competitive pair. Personally, I think Lebron and Steph end up more potent together but it's not like we're working against Shareef Abdur-Rahim and Mike Bibby, right?

I think Magic would develop three point shoot way earlier in modern game. He improved his shooting a ton during the first 4 years in the league, so he had the desire and potential but 1980s coaches didn't care about the shooting. As you said, I don't need three point shooting from Kareem.

Of course it's close, I'm not mad at anyone picking the other duo.

[tsherkin]

I'm not really talking about the decision here, more about his later career choices.

Yes, I understand you weren't talking about just one moment.

I think Magic would develop three point shoot way earlier in modern game.

If we're speaking of porting a young Magic into the modern game, that does make sense, yes. Though it depends on when that development starts. He'd been working on his J a long time before that finally came to the fore, and it still took some years for him to develop a competent three after it was introduced in his rookie season. So the particulars end up mattering there.

Of course it's close, I'm not mad at anyone picking the other duo.

It's surely an interesting comparison!

[Ginoboleee]

If we're speaking of porting a young Magic into the modern game, that does make sense, yes. Though it depends on when that development starts. He'd been working on his J a long time before that finally came to the fore, and it still took some years for him to develop a competent three after it was introduced in his rookie season. So the particulars end up mattering there.

Using the lingo Porting makes much more sense than my cliche Alt Timeline or Time Travel.

Took a long time for my man Magic to become a deep shooter, and the release was slow, but he was big, so all good.

[Homer38]

That is precisely my point, yes. Lebron doesn't have an issue sharing. There's a limited number of shots that you get from iso players and PnR spammers, for sure, but an off-ball guy isn't going to have issues getting shots on a team with a guy who loves to hit shooters.

Yup.

Same old narratives disproven by data that showed what actually happened but posters who never change their minds about their narratives (such as in this thread) will hand wave away it all:

2017 Cavs’ Usage %

Kyrie, 30.8% (only 27.7% of Kyrie’s shots were catch and shoots; 67.4% were pull-ups he created)
LeBron, 30.0%

Playoffs:

Kyrie: 31.1% (only 16.5% were catch and shoots; 70.4% were pull ups he created)
LeBron: 31.6%

2016 Cavs’ Usage %

Kyrie, 29.5% (only 30.9% of Kyrie’s shots were catch and shots; 61.2% were pull-ups he created)
LeBron, 31.4%

Playoffs:

Kyrie: 30.4% (only 22.4% were catch and shoots; 71.8% were pull ups he created)
LeBron: 30.7%

stats.nba.com also has stats on time holding he ball and dribbles per touch. Kyrie held the ball longer when he had it than LeBron did and took more dribbles.

Which other ATG offensive engine had a teammate who had a 30% usage rate?

You are talking about after he joined a star player. What did he do when no one was a star and became a star playing with him?

Because the cavs between 2004 to 2010 have drafted no one who had potentiel to be a star in the NBA

And in the playoffs,Kyrie was at his best when he was with LBJ,so....

And btw LeBron and Kyrie won 72% of their game as teammates...

Read on Twitter

[tsherkin]

Using the lingo Porting makes much more sense than my cliche Alt Timeline or Time Travel.

Took a long time for my man Magic to become a deep shooter, and the release was slow, but he was big, so all good.

It all ends up the same way, whatever the words, right?

[KGtabake]

I always pick Steph. In any combination.

[JordansBulls]

I always pick Steph. In any combination.

Maybe if the comparison is close this makes sense.

[No-more-rings]

I always pick Steph. In any combination.

Steph/Paul George vs Magic/Kareem who you taking?

[KGtabake]

I always pick Steph. In any combination.

Steph/Paul George vs Magic/Kareem who you taking?

Always Steph in any all timers combination.
PG isn't an all timer ofc although he will look like one with Steph by his side.