[HAYNES] Nets and Lakers actively talking Russ/Kyrie trade…

[Pharmcat]

Do the Lakers have anything considered an "asset"?

Lebron AD are huge assets. So is wb 47 million when considered as a expiring contract (whether the lakers want to take on long term salary in return is another question )

[sp6r=underrated]

Not trading KD with Ayton as the main piece back. Sorry.

your getting miles bridges and cam Johnson and boat load picks…. What kind return do you think a aging star that has had acl injury get you? He’s on last stretch of his prime years

An MVP level player still in his prime. Yeah it gets me more than a bunch of role players.

As I said, hard pass.

I'm much higher on Bridges than you are. He's not at all a role player to me. He's a very strong 2 way player and has consistently shown high +/- numbers. He looks to me like a guy who is a Horace Grant type, fairly pedestrian basic stats, but very strong numbers once you looks at em closely. But he's going to be 26 yrs old next year. He's on a very good deal but he has to be the second best player I get in a Durant trade.

And Cam Johnson he's the definition of just another guy. He's 26 next year and only had one above average season. His contract expires. He wouldn't be interesting to me at all if I Brooklyn.

not a Nets fan but if all Durant can land me is Bridges and Johnson I tell Durant to **** off with his trade demand you're playing in Brooklyn next year.

[sp6r=underrated]

So is wb 47 million when considered as a expiring contract (whether the lakers want to take on long term salary in return is another question )

The Lakers aren't willing to take on a long-term contract for Russ. He would have value for a team looking to unload a good but grossly overpaid player on a long-term deal.

LA wants to sign free agents so they won't take on that type of player so his value is 0. If you're a team with a headcase that is set to expire like Kyrie, you're better off keeping him than trading him for a guy with no on court value. With Kyrie even if you think there is only a 5% chance he'll be valuable next year that is still 5% more than Russ who is guaranteed to stink. You can just John Wall him if he becomes a problem.

[nbafan38]

I don't get how the lakers don't expect the nets want compensation when the nets are giving away a really good player (although unpredictable) for a washed up player.

I do understand how the lakers may not want to ruin their future to satisfy a 38 year old player and have an unpredictable personality on their team.

So in essence I'm still not seeing much incentive for either side to do this trade which matches the reality that nothing has gotten done or is seriously close to being done.

[nbafan38]

So is wb 47 million when considered as a expiring contract (whether the lakers want to take on long term salary in return is another question )

The Lakers aren't willing to take on a long-term contract for Russ. He would have value for a team looking to unload a good but grossly overpaid player on a long-term deal.

LA wants to sign free agents so they won't take on that type of player so his value is 0. If you're a team with a headcase that is set to expire like Kyrie, you're better off keeping him than trading him for a guy with no on court value. With Kyrie even if you think there is only a 5% chance he'll be valuable next year that is still 5% more than Russ who is guaranteed to stink. You can just John Wall him if he becomes a problem.

Being that both of these teams are big market teams I honestly think the whole concept of draft picks is overrated on both sides tbh as these teams especially LA are going to build more through Free Agency than through the draft. Either way I agree with you that 5% is better than 0%.

[nbafan38]

Do the Lakers have anything considered an "asset"?

Lebron AD are huge assets. So is wb 47 million when considered as a expiring contract (whether the lakers want to take on long term salary in return is another question )

I'd be more interested honestly in an AD and draft picks for Kyrie and KD swap than a 2027 pick just for Kyrie. Nets knowing they have to trade KD anyway if Kyrie is gone may as well get a proven superstar player back. AD and Ben Simmons would give them a chance to quickly retool on the fly.

[sp6r=underrated]

So is wb 47 million when considered as a expiring contract (whether the lakers want to take on long term salary in return is another question )

The Lakers aren't willing to take on a long-term contract for Russ. He would have value for a team looking to unload a good but grossly overpaid player on a long-term deal.

LA wants to sign free agents so they won't take on that type of player so his value is 0. If you're a team with a headcase that is set to expire like Kyrie, you're better off keeping him than trading him for a guy with no on court value. With Kyrie even if you think there is only a 5% chance he'll be valuable next year that is still 5% more than Russ who is guaranteed to stink. You can just John Wall him if he becomes a problem.

Being that both of these teams are big market teams I honestly think the whole concept of draft picks is overrated on both sides tbh as these teams especially LA are going to build more through Free Agency than through the draft. Either way I agree with you that 5% is better than 0%.

As a Knicks fan I can assure you a **** the draft attitude will kill you. You still need draft picks to facilitate Anthony Davis type trades and to acquire good young players if your operating on the free agency superstar model.

Don't get me wrong NY/LA can afford to care about picks less than the middle market teams like Philly and a hell of a lot less than the small market ones like Utah. But you do need to have some picks.

We're seeing the consequence of that right now. Lakers only young player is THT. Teams just aren't interested in him. And picks yrs down the road aren't enticing.

[sp6r=underrated]

Do the Lakers have anything considered an "asset"?

No they do not. That's why the Rockets demanded a unprotected 1st round pick in trade in exchange for a very injury prone John Wall,in which they had no intentions of keeping anyway. If I was Sean Marks,I would hang up on the Lakers right now and just hope some other team is interested in getting Kyrie Irving at some point.If not,then the "John Wall" option can be used,which means just sit him out for a entire season. Another option is just give Kyrie a contract extenison,which would defuse tenisons between Nets and KD/Kyrie. If I was the Nets, I see any option as better than taking Russell Westbrook 47 million dollar contract,even if I get 1-2 unprotected 1st round picks out of it.

And the rockets lost wall for nothing. So if they were able to get even second round picks it would have been better asset management. But some teams don’t want to help lakers out at all and cost themselves assets. Just like pop taking the worse KL deal

The outcome of John Wall wasn't a loss. The Rockets concluded demanding a 1st rounder pick outweighed the cost of just paying Wall not to play. That decision making doesn't seem unreasonable to me since 2nd picks have a lower rate of expected return than the possibility the trade deadline would have passed without Wall being moved.

[nbafan38]

The Lakers aren't willing to take on a long-term contract for Russ. He would have value for a team looking to unload a good but grossly overpaid player on a long-term deal.

LA wants to sign free agents so they won't take on that type of player so his value is 0. If you're a team with a headcase that is set to expire like Kyrie, you're better off keeping him than trading him for a guy with no on court value. With Kyrie even if you think there is only a 5% chance he'll be valuable next year that is still 5% more than Russ who is guaranteed to stink. You can just John Wall him if he becomes a problem.

Being that both of these teams are big market teams I honestly think the whole concept of draft picks is overrated on both sides tbh as these teams especially LA are going to build more through Free Agency than through the draft. Either way I agree with you that 5% is better than 0%.

As a Knicks fan I can assure you a **** the draft attitude will kill you. You still need draft picks to facilitate Anthony Davis type trades and to acquire good young players if your operating on the free agency superstar model.

Don't get me wrong NY/LA can afford to care about picks less than the middle market teams like Philly and a hell of a lot less than the small market ones like Utah. But you do need to have some picks.

We're seeing the consequence of that right now. Lakers only young player is THT. Teams just aren't interested in him. And picks yrs down the road aren't enticing.

I think that may be true but it's a 2027 pick, it's not too exciting? But I guess that also supports your point.

[Karmaloop]

The Lakers aren't willing to take on a long-term contract for Russ. He would have value for a team looking to unload a good but grossly overpaid player on a long-term deal.

LA wants to sign free agents so they won't take on that type of player so his value is 0. If you're a team with a headcase that is set to expire like Kyrie, you're better off keeping him than trading him for a guy with no on court value. With Kyrie even if you think there is only a 5% chance he'll be valuable next year that is still 5% more than Russ who is guaranteed to stink. You can just John Wall him if he becomes a problem.

The problem is taking on long-term money means they lose their 2023 cap flexibility. Even if LeBron bolts, they can offer a max contract to Kyrie Irving (assuming he still wants to be in LA) and roll with an Irving/Davis duo moving forward with enough cap space to sign multiple FAs who fit next to those two. If LeBron were to extend, we'd probably see them more willing to accept long-term money. But until LeBron extends, they want to keep their flexbility.

[sp6r=underrated]

The Lakers aren't willing to take on a long-term contract for Russ. He would have value for a team looking to unload a good but grossly overpaid player on a long-term deal.

LA wants to sign free agents so they won't take on that type of player so his value is 0. If you're a team with a headcase that is set to expire like Kyrie, you're better off keeping him than trading him for a guy with no on court value. With Kyrie even if you think there is only a 5% chance he'll be valuable next year that is still 5% more than Russ who is guaranteed to stink. You can just John Wall him if he becomes a problem.

The problem is taking on long-term money means they lose their 2023 cap flexibility. Even if LeBron bolts, they can offer a max contract to Kyrie Irving (assuming he still wants to be in LA) and roll with an Irving/Davis duo moving forward with enough cap space to sign multiple FAs who fit next to those two. If LeBron were to extend, we'd probably see them more willing to accept long-term money. But until LeBron extends, they want to keep their flexbility.

I was just explaining why Russ's value is 0 around the league. I think the Lakers are being quite wise to value their flexibility over taking a good but extremely overpaid player. The short term benefit of the overpaid player for next year is outweighed by the long-term cost.

Still, that makes Russ pretty much a useless trade chip unless some team thinks he can sell tickets for them

[sonic the laker]

I'll be honest. I'm not even sure why the Spurs...or any team for that matter...would be involved in a potential deal between the Lakers, and Nets. All the Lakers really want, is Kyrie. The Nets want compensation. Something that the Lakers are severely limited in. Involving a third team, just complicates the asset distribution. The Laker don't have enough to compensate the Nets, and another team. The Nets aren't trying to collect compensation for Kyrie. Not give it out. So, unless either the Nets, or Lakers, are willing to take on long term contracts from another team...which is the only logical deduction...there's not a lot to be explored here.

I think the Spurs angle is just talk. Nothing serious.

Great point. You see this a lot in fan proposed trades. A third team is involved to solve an unsolveable problem from the fans' perspective. In this case mostly lakers fans, and all fans do this not just Lakers fans, badly want Kyrie because they see him as the one possible piece to revive contender status.

The Lakers offer is Russ*, a combination of 2 picks (max), and the Nets giving up a decent player to make salaries match. Brooklyn has concluded, fairly or not, what the lakers can offer isn't worth bringing Kyrie back and hoping for the small chance he acts rationally and plays hard.

So fans say let's bring in a third party to facilitate the trade. They see the Spurs are below the salary floor and see the solution. SA takes on Russ. But once you think about it for a second as that Spurs fan explained, Russ has no value to SA either. It is a solution only if you assume SA has an interest in making this trade go forward. Which is something fans do not executives for other teams.

If a Kyrie-LA trade happens it will be 2 party or the scope substantially changed from what is being considered.

Third party trades only happen when Team A has a player that has no value to Team B but would be valuable to Team C. Team C can then be brought into the fold. There is no Team C for Russ right now. His play is too bad. The value of his expiring isn't enough. And his rep has been destroyed enough he can't be used to sell tickets.

* Off-topic: Russ is an ATG and I feel bad for him the way his prime now is getting mocked. If you're an ATG with a bad ending to a career, you'll get knocked. If you don't have a title and you played for a team with a small fanbase like OKC you'll get a lot of unfair criticism for your prime days. Russ will make and deserves the HOF. Don't blame Laker fans for hating him but just wanted to defend him a bit.

Also, for the record, I'm a Lakers fan who respects RWB. Full disclosure, during the previous offseason, he was not my first pick, as a target for the Lakers. Derozan was. Followed by Hield. But, as soon as you become a Laker, I'm rooting for you. RWB is not what he used to be, that's evident. His skillset is even further diminished, with the league prioritizing shooting, from perimeter players. It takes a very specific team setup, from players to playstyle, to get the best out of Westbrook. None of this was evident, last season, with the Lakers. For lots of various, obvious, reasons.

All that said, Westbrook always gives you his all, and that's extremely commendable. The disrespect he got from a lot of fans, and media, was/is unwarranted. The past trash season can not be blamed on him, imo.

[nbafan38]

As much as it honestly sickens me to say this the nets should probably just offer Kyrie his extension and move on. Kyrie bluffed and
no one wanted him, the nets bluffed and no one wants to give them what they want so may as well stick with original plan (and this is coming from someone who didn't particularly like Kyrie or KD even before all the recent stuff).

[Karmaloop]

If a trade between the lakers and nets easily could be done then it would have been made already. Clearly they need a third team, and that team has leverage over what they can ask for. The spurs have a crap ton of cap space that they can use better than getting a single 1st round pick. This isn’t string theory or neuroscience. They can keep the cap space and use it during the season with their trade assets to get better offers than a single damn pick. I am sorry that you can’t grasp this but it been explained before and you and other posters ignorance is just pretty laughable

While I don't disagree that the Spurs have quite a bit of leverage when discussing taking on Russell Westbrook, I really don't see the salary dump market being flush. The talent pool in FA outside of RFAs is barren, and the only teams that are currently above the luxury tax are the LA Clippers, Golden State, Brooklyn, Milwaukee, LA Lakers, Dallas, Boston, Denver, Portland, and Philadelphia according to Spotrac. Just going down the list, the players I could see being salary dumped would be:

LA Clippers - Luke Kennard (2 years, $28.5M)
Golden State - None
Brooklyn - None
Milwaukee - None
LA Lakers - None
Dallas - Davis Bertrans (2 years, $37M) and Spencer Dinwiddie (2 years, $36.9M)
Boston - None
Denver - Ish Smith (1 year, $4.7M)
Portland - None
Philadelphia - None

I just don't see a huge salary dump market this offseason.

[sp6r=underrated]

I'll be honest. I'm not even sure why the Spurs...or any team for that matter...would be involved in a potential deal between the Lakers, and Nets. All the Lakers really want, is Kyrie. The Nets want compensation. Something that the Lakers are severely limited in. Involving a third team, just complicates the asset distribution. The Laker don't have enough to compensate the Nets, and another team. The Nets aren't trying to collect compensation for Kyrie. Not give it out. So, unless either the Nets, or Lakers, are willing to take on long term contracts from another team...which is the only logical deduction...there's not a lot to be explored here.

I think the Spurs angle is just talk. Nothing serious.

Great point. You see this a lot in fan proposed trades. A third team is involved to solve an unsolveable problem from the fans' perspective. In this case mostly lakers fans, and all fans do this not just Lakers fans, badly want Kyrie because they see him as the one possible piece to revive contender status.

The Lakers offer is Russ*, a combination of 2 picks (max), and the Nets giving up a decent player to make salaries match. Brooklyn has concluded, fairly or not, what the lakers can offer isn't worth bringing Kyrie back and hoping for the small chance he acts rationally and plays hard.

So fans say let's bring in a third party to facilitate the trade. They see the Spurs are below the salary floor and see the solution. SA takes on Russ. But once you think about it for a second as that Spurs fan explained, Russ has no value to SA either. It is a solution only if you assume SA has an interest in making this trade go forward. Which is something fans do not executives for other teams.

If a Kyrie-LA trade happens it will be 2 party or the scope substantially changed from what is being considered.

Third party trades only happen when Team A has a player that has no value to Team B but would be valuable to Team C. Team C can then be brought into the fold. There is no Team C for Russ right now. His play is too bad. The value of his expiring isn't enough. And his rep has been destroyed enough he can't be used to sell tickets.

* Off-topic: Russ is an ATG and I feel bad for him the way his prime now is getting mocked. If you're an ATG with a bad ending to a career, you'll get knocked. If you don't have a title and you played for a team with a small fanbase like OKC you'll get a lot of unfair criticism for your prime days. Russ will make and deserves the HOF. Don't blame Laker fans for hating him but just wanted to defend him a bit.

Also, for the record, I'm a Lakers fan who respects RWB. Full disclosure, during the previous offseason, he was not my first pick, as a target for the Lakers. Derozan was. Followed by Hield. But, as soon as you become a Laker, I'm rooting for you. RWB is not what he used to be, that's evident. His skillset is even further diminished, with the league prioritizing shooting, from perimeter players. It takes a very specific team setup, from players to playstyle, to get the best out of Westbrook. None of this was evident, last season, with the Lakers. For lots of various, obvious, reasons.

All that said, Westbrook always gives you his all, and that's extremely commendable. The disrespect he got from a lot of fans, and media, was/is unwarranted, imo. The past trash season can not be blamed on him, imo.

Yup, I wish I could remember the poster who said it to give credit, but someone here totally pegged guys like Russ. He was talking about the aging curve for Russ and Wade who both fell off a cliff in their 30s.

The poster said guys like Wade/Russ (super strong/athletic guards but with weak jumpers) are NFL running backs.

They rely on super elite slashing abilities to hit the hole hard and punish defenses. Once they lose even half a step their value plummets. They really can't play off-ball in current offenses because they can't shoot. They can't punish defense anymore with their drives as they've lost a step. And since they've spent their entire career driving, slashing they find it very hard to play less assertive. Basically this player type becomes pretty much useless earlier than you'd expect

[Liam_Gallagher]

Just send out the draft pick.

You’re telling me the 25th pick in the 2027 draft is gonna be better than Kyrie?

[Karmaloop]

Just send out the draft pick.

You’re telling me the 25th pick in the 2027 draft is gonna be better than Kyrie?

If a single FRP was holding up the deal, I'd have to imagine the deal would have been done already.

[Jfh20]

lol lebron actually thought the nets were dumb enough to trade kyrie for westbrook.... even with the headaches that kyrie will give u, he is a special talent with great shooting ability and a champion.. cant say the same westbrook.... cant shoot, misses bunnies, and has lost the only thing that kept him in the nba this long, athletic ability. Lakers are irrelevant and i hope it stays that way. lebron has lost his hold on the league, its Giannis, Currys league now.

[levon]

this thread needs to be framed after this situation is over. so many terrible takes

[sp6r=underrated]

this thread needs to be framed after this situation is over. so many terrible takes

care to give your list of the bad takes to grade your prediction.