Gonna be some HUGE teams in the NBA this year.

[cupcakesnake]

I'm looking at OKC, Orlando, and Minny specifically. Think about these potential starting lineups:

Orlando:
Suggs 6'4", 6'5" wingspan (could be Cole Anthony or Fultz)
Wagner 6'9", 6'11" wingspan
Paolo 6'11", ??? wingspan
Isaac 6'11", 7'1" wingspan
WCJ 6'9.5", 7'4.5" wingspant (could be the 7'0" Mo Bamba with his 7'9" wingspan lol)

OKC:
Shai 6'6", 6'11.5" wingspan
Giddey 6'8", 6'8" wingspan
Dort 6'5", 6'8" wingspan (could be the 6'10" Dieng or Jalen Williams)
JRE 6'8", 6'10" wingspan (could be the 7'0" Poku or Favors)
Chet 7'1", ??? wingspan

Minnesota:
D'Lo 6'4", 6'8.5" wingspan
Ant 6'5", 6'11" wingspan
McDaniels 6'9", 6'11" wingspan (or the 6'8" SloMo)
Towns 6'11", 7'3.5" wingspan
Gobert 7'2", 7'9" wingspan

Not to mention the long boi Raps, the Tower City Cavaliers. Did I miss anyone?

[rand]

Going to be interesting to see how Minnesota's starters handle small lineups like Curry/Poole/Klay/Wiggins/Draymond

[sp6r=underrated]

I'm looking at OKC, Orlando, and Minny specifically. Think about these potential starting lineups:

Orlando:
Suggs 6'4", 6'5" wingspan (could be Cole Anthony or Fultz)
Wager 6'9", 6'11" wingspan
Paolo 6'11", ??? wingspan
Isaac 6'11", 7'1" wingspan
WCJ 6'9.5", 7'4.5" wingspant (could be the 7'0" Mo Bamba with his 7'9" wingspan lol)

OKC:
Shai 6'6", 6'11.5" wingspan
Giddey 6'8", 6'8" wingspan
Dort 6'5", 6'8" wingspan (could be the 6'10" Dieng or Jalen Williams)
JRE 6'8", 6'10" wingspan (could be the 7'0" Poku or Favors)
Chet 7'1", ??? wingspan

Minnesota:
D'Lo 6'4", 6'8.5" wingspan
Ant 6'5", 6'11" wingspan
McDaniels 6'9", 6'11" wingspan (or the 6'8" SloMo)
Towns 6'11", 7'3.5" wingspan
Gobert 7'2", 7'9" wingspan

Not to mention the long boi Raps, the Tower City Cavaliers. Did I miss anyone?

I'm beginning to think the small ball era will be remembered as a weird transition period brought on entierely by US basketball culture only teaching smalls to shoot and not bigs. In Europe they always expected everyone to learn to shoot.

Now that US bigs are being forced to learn to shoot at a young age like smalls did, going small is a one weird trick that no longer works.

I suspect over this decade we will see a return to bigger lineups.

[Texas Chuck]

Kidd suggested at summer league that Dallas was going to start:

McGee
Wood

Dinwiddie
Luka

With the obvious assumption Finney-Smith is the name he left out. That's a pretty big team with everyone at least 6'7" save Dinwiddie who is 6 5". And the top 4 bench players are 6'10, 6'10, 6'6" and 6'5. Not a single rotation player smaller than Dinwiddie.

[Statlanta]

The Lakers. All these teams are preparing to guard the MVP level bigs when the Curry/Green PnR ages out of championship meta relevance.

[JujitsuFlip]

Going to be interesting to see how Minnesota's starters handle small lineups like Curry/Poole/Klay/Wiggins/Draymond

I really do wonder how 2 guys who have played center their entire careers coexist, especially with Slowmo or McDaniels next to em.

[cupcakesnake]

Going to be interesting to see how Minnesota's starters handle small lineups like Curry/Poole/Klay/Wiggins/Draymond

Or just in general how they handle the teams that optimize by going small. Golden State, Chicago, Clippers, Miami, Lakers are all teams that like to slide into small lineups for big chunks of every game. It will be a guaranteed clash because neither team will want to adjust to the other. Can Minnesota offer enough perimeter defense and offensive rebounding to turn the advantage? I don't think it's going to be a matchup issue so much as a contest of what's working at the team-wide/lineup level.

[cupcakesnake]

I'm beginning to think the small ball era will be remembered as a weird transition period brought on entierely by US basketball culture only teaching smalls to shoot and not bigs. In Europe they always expected everyone to learn to shoot.

Now that US bigs are being forced to learn to shoot at a young age like smalls did, going small is a one weird trick that no longer works.

I suspect over this decade we will see a return to bigger lineups.

I agree. I think that teams that start a single big in the playoffs, without another helper get exposed (Phoenix, Utah). The answer so far has been to scale down, but some teams are realizing: what if we have a second helper (Cavs, Boston). As long as you can do that without losing an offensive advantage, you're team stops being vulnerable to what's happening when the primary paint protector is dragged out to the perimeter. Like with Gobert, everyone focused on him being on the perimeter, but to me it was always about what was happening behind him when he's out there.

[sp6r=underrated]

Kidd suggested at summer league that Dallas was going to start:

McGee
Wood

Dinwiddie
Luka

With the obvious assumption Finney-Smith is the name he left out. That's a pretty big team with everyone at least 6'7" save Dinwiddie who is 6 5". And the top 4 bench players are 6'10, 6'10, 6'6" and 6'5. Not a single rotation player smaller than Dinwiddie.

If this trend continues, I think a guy like Trae could have a very weird aging curve were he ages much worse than you'd expect. He already is at a massive disadvantage defensively. Imagine if the NBA starts returning to big guards everywhere who can shoot.

BTW, what was that weird zone defense you talked about playing in HS that was build around giving up corner 3s. I remember a post of yours talking about it when we discussing how the game's changed.

[scrabbarista]

I'm beginning to think the small ball era will be remembered as a weird transition period brought on entierely by US basketball culture only teaching smalls to shoot and not bigs. In Europe they always expected everyone to learn to shoot.

Now that US bigs are being forced to learn to shoot at a young age like smalls did, going small is a one weird trick that no longer works.

I suspect over this decade we will see a return to bigger lineups.

I agree. I think that teams that start a single big in the playoffs, without another helper get exposed (Phoenix, Utah). The answer so far has been to scale down, but some teams are realizing: what if we have a second helper (Cavs, Boston). As long as you can do that without losing an offensive advantage, you're team stops being vulnerable to what's happening when the primary paint protector is dragged out to the perimeter. Like with Gobert, everyone focused on him being on the perimeter, but to me it was always about what was happening behind him when he's out there.

I've always said that, eye-test-wise (as in, just being impressed without any conscious analyzing), the best defense I've ever seen was the '99 Spurs.

[cupcakesnake]

Kidd suggested at summer league that Dallas was going to start:

McGee
Wood

Dinwiddie
Luka

With the obvious assumption Finney-Smith is the name he left out. That's a pretty big team with everyone at least 6'7" save Dinwiddie who is 6 5". And the top 4 bench players are 6'10, 6'10, 6'6" and 6'5. Not a single rotation player smaller than Dinwiddie.

Niiiiice. Was wondering about Dallas' frontcourt next year. Most of their bigs were on the smaller side last year, but they liked throwing out 2-big lineups with Kleber/Powell or one of those guys and Porzingis. Then in the playoffs they preferred to downsize with the guard lineups or Bullock/DFS on the wing with 1 big.

It always felt like a balancing act of getting enough defense and shooting on the floor but also giving Luka a lob target. I think McGee is a nice fit, but is also almost 35 and pretty limited outside of being that lob threat. Christian Wood is still a bit mysterious in terms of what he'll look like in Dallas.

[sp6r=underrated]

I'm beginning to think the small ball era will be remembered as a weird transition period brought on entierely by US basketball culture only teaching smalls to shoot and not bigs. In Europe they always expected everyone to learn to shoot.

Now that US bigs are being forced to learn to shoot at a young age like smalls did, going small is a one weird trick that no longer works.

I suspect over this decade we will see a return to bigger lineups.

I agree. I think that teams that start a single big in the playoffs, without another helper get exposed (Phoenix, Utah). The answer so far has been to scale down, but some teams are realizing: what if we have a second helper (Cavs, Boston). As long as you can do that without losing an offensive advantage, you're team stops being vulnerable to what's happening when the primary paint protector is dragged out to the perimeter. Like with Gobert, everyone focused on him being on the perimeter, but to me it was always about what was happening behind him when he's out there.

I'm much higher on Gobert than the average realgm poster. On here people talk about him being exposed in the post-season. I think Utah's strategy was exposed. Utah's strategy was let's surround Gobert with 4 terrible defenders and hope he can mop up. It worked in the RS but in PS when teams can really game plan it was too much. It reminds me of those 1st run Cavs teams which used to pair Lebron with 4 good defenders/bad offensive players and hope he could carry the offense.

I'm going to follow Minn closely this year.

[turnaroundJ]

i'm pretty sure most of these numbers are wrong

[SelfishPlayer]

I'm looking at OKC, Orlando, and Minny specifically. Think about these potential starting lineups:

Orlando:
Suggs 6'4", 6'5" wingspan (could be Cole Anthony or Fultz)
Wager 6'9", 6'11" wingspan
Paolo 6'11", ??? wingspan
Isaac 6'11", 7'1" wingspan
WCJ 6'9.5", 7'4.5" wingspant (could be the 7'0" Mo Bamba with his 7'9" wingspan lol)

OKC:
Shai 6'6", 6'11.5" wingspan
Giddey 6'8", 6'8" wingspan
Dort 6'5", 6'8" wingspan (could be the 6'10" Dieng or Jalen Williams)
JRE 6'8", 6'10" wingspan (could be the 7'0" Poku or Favors)
Chet 7'1", ??? wingspan

Minnesota:
D'Lo 6'4", 6'8.5" wingspan
Ant 6'5", 6'11" wingspan
McDaniels 6'9", 6'11" wingspan (or the 6'8" SloMo)
Towns 6'11", 7'3.5" wingspan
Gobert 7'2", 7'9" wingspan

Not to mention the long boi Raps, the Tower City Cavaliers. Did I miss anyone?

I'm beginning to think the small ball era will be remembered as a weird transition period brought on entierely by US basketball culture only teaching smalls to shoot and not bigs. In Europe they always expected everyone to learn to shoot.

Now that US bigs are being forced to learn to shoot at a young age like smalls did, going small is a one weird trick that no longer works.

I suspect over this decade we will see a return to bigger lineups.

You used the term "bigger" instead of perhaps "longer." Bigger players will still continue to get played off the floor. Bigger meaning guys like true centers that have heavy weight and slow feet.

[JujitsuFlip]

Cavs probably do it best, currently.

Garland 6'1" and 6'5" wingspan
Agbaji 6'5" and 6'10.25" wingspan
Markkanen 7'0" and 6'11" wingspan
Mobley 7'0" and 7'4" wingspan
Allen 7'0" (with the fro) and 7'6" wingspan

[cupcakesnake]

I'm beginning to think the small ball era will be remembered as a weird transition period brought on entierely by US basketball culture only teaching smalls to shoot and not bigs. In Europe they always expected everyone to learn to shoot.

Now that US bigs are being forced to learn to shoot at a young age like smalls did, going small is a one weird trick that no longer works.

I suspect over this decade we will see a return to bigger lineups.

I agree. I think that teams that start a single big in the playoffs, without another helper get exposed (Phoenix, Utah). The answer so far has been to scale down, but some teams are realizing: what if we have a second helper (Cavs, Boston). As long as you can do that without losing an offensive advantage, you're team stops being vulnerable to what's happening when the primary paint protector is dragged out to the perimeter. Like with Gobert, everyone focused on him being on the perimeter, but to me it was always about what was happening behind him when he's out there.

I've always said that, eye-test-wise, the best defense I've ever seen was the '99 Spurs.

and back then it was mandatory to have 2 big who could both protect the paint. Obviously it's great when those 2 bigs could be Duncan/Robinson or Wallace/Wallace, but we saw a whole lot of guys like Rasho Nesterovic starting for elite teams because the defensive advantage was considered so crucial.

[sp6r=underrated]

I'm looking at OKC, Orlando, and Minny specifically. Think about these potential starting lineups:

Orlando:
Suggs 6'4", 6'5" wingspan (could be Cole Anthony or Fultz)
Wager 6'9", 6'11" wingspan
Paolo 6'11", ??? wingspan
Isaac 6'11", 7'1" wingspan
WCJ 6'9.5", 7'4.5" wingspant (could be the 7'0" Mo Bamba with his 7'9" wingspan lol)

OKC:
Shai 6'6", 6'11.5" wingspan
Giddey 6'8", 6'8" wingspan
Dort 6'5", 6'8" wingspan (could be the 6'10" Dieng or Jalen Williams)
JRE 6'8", 6'10" wingspan (could be the 7'0" Poku or Favors)
Chet 7'1", ??? wingspan

Minnesota:
D'Lo 6'4", 6'8.5" wingspan
Ant 6'5", 6'11" wingspan
McDaniels 6'9", 6'11" wingspan (or the 6'8" SloMo)
Towns 6'11", 7'3.5" wingspan
Gobert 7'2", 7'9" wingspan

Not to mention the long boi Raps, the Tower City Cavaliers. Did I miss anyone?

I'm beginning to think the small ball era will be remembered as a weird transition period brought on entierely by US basketball culture only teaching smalls to shoot and not bigs. In Europe they always expected everyone to learn to shoot.

Now that US bigs are being forced to learn to shoot at a young age like smalls did, going small is a one weird trick that no longer works.

I suspect over this decade we will see a return to bigger lineups.

You used the term "bigger" instead of perhaps "longer." Bigger players will still continue to get played off the floor. Bigger meaning guys like true centers that have heavy weight and slow feet.

True center genuinely means "Can't shoot." I rarely hear guys described as true centers who can shoot.

As to weight, I think you're right we will still see guys at a lower weight than they used to be but I don't think you'll see in 2030 teams chucking out lineups with the tallest guy being 6'7.

[cupcakesnake]

i'm pretty sure most of these numbers are wrong

I didn't measure the guys personally, but I did take the time to look them up before posting. Obviously, some of the measurements are more reliable than others. I didn't include quarter inches or anything. Any particular ones you think are off?

[JujitsuFlip]

Kidd suggested at summer league that Dallas was going to start:

McGee
Wood

Dinwiddie
Luka

With the obvious assumption Finney-Smith is the name he left out. That's a pretty big team with everyone at least 6'7" save Dinwiddie who is 6 5". And the top 4 bench players are 6'10, 6'10, 6'6" and 6'5. Not a single rotation player smaller than Dinwiddie.

If this trend continues, I think a guy like Trae could have a very weird aging curve were he ages much worse than you'd expect. He already is at a massive disadvantage defensively. Imagine if the NBA starts returning to big guards everywhere who can shoot.

BTW, what was that weird zone defense you talked about playing in HS that was build around giving up corner 3s. I remember a post of yours talking about it when we discussing how the game's changed.

I believe you're talking about the 1-3-1 zone defense. We used to play it in school ball, situationally. I hated it, because I was the 1 under the basket, we always got smacked when we went to it.

[scrabbarista]

I agree. I think that teams that start a single big in the playoffs, without another helper get exposed (Phoenix, Utah). The answer so far has been to scale down, but some teams are realizing: what if we have a second helper (Cavs, Boston). As long as you can do that without losing an offensive advantage, you're team stops being vulnerable to what's happening when the primary paint protector is dragged out to the perimeter. Like with Gobert, everyone focused on him being on the perimeter, but to me it was always about what was happening behind him when he's out there.

I've always said that, eye-test-wise, the best defense I've ever seen was the '99 Spurs.

and back then it was mandatory to have 2 big who could both protect the paint. Obviously it's great when those 2 bigs could be Duncan/Robinson or Wallace/Wallace, but we saw a whole lot of guys like Rasho Nesterovic starting for elite teams because the defensive advantage was considered so crucial.

I've always thought of the 5 as a defensive position and the 4 as an offensive/rebounding position. Not saying it should be that way (positions are a construct anyway), but I've always seen that as the convention. I think two elite rim protectors is still pretty rare in any era. But yes, two "interior bigs" has probably been normal for 90% of the NBA's history, if not more.