2022 Free Agency Thread: Kevin Durant requests trade out of BK

[pepe1991]

Narratives are messed up things and opinions are like b*** holes, everybody has one. But naratives created by fabrications and lies are where i draw the line.

Pat Riley took Heat in 1995. He made playoffs 20 out of 27 years, went to nba finals 6 different times, won 3 rings.

Calling him overrated is something else. It's being irrational and delusional. Pat Riley is person who signed prime Lebron James , top 2 best player ever, on 25% below max contract. In same summer he got Bosh.

Reasons why guys like Butler few yeras back, Durant now are pushing their way to Miami, reasons why Lebron wanted to go there is because they know Riley will give them what's needed to be sucessful. Also what Riley showed over years, is that he won't be pushed around by anybody , including Lebron, same Lebron who is pushing around Silver without any issues.

Narrative about "awful Whiteside contract " is just that. Narrative.
Heat resigned 26 years old guy who averaged 14 ppg, 12 rpg, 3,7 bpg and finished season 3rd in voting for DPOY. Heat were on track to win +52 games if Bosh didn't cought up blood clot. Without Bosh they went to second round and played 7 games series vs Toronto
( eventually lost).

Given that nobody knew how serious Bosh condition was and they held hope of him returning, even during playoffs in 2016-17.

Bosh was initially optimistic about a return to the Heat for the 2016–17 season, and the organization had become increasingly hopeful that he would be cleared for camp. Those hopes quickly faded due to Bosh's continued issues with blood clotting.[102] In September 2016, Bosh failed his physical exam and was not cleared by the team to participate in training camp.[

So let's drive home whole logic. You are 48-34 team without your second best player, allstar. You resign player who is 3rd in DPOY voring because only fool wouldn't ,your best player is still top tear basketball player ( D Wade) and you own him opportunity to play for title. It's not like championship window, for your potentially healthy team doesn't exist. It does. You have Dragic- Wade- Deng- Bosh - Whiteside starting 5, that's probably the best , if not -second best team on the East still. Your only competition, serious one, are Cavs, who felll apart year before due injuries.


But Bosh had to retire and Heat kept him on books ( $23M a year, non less) up until end of 2018-19.
By they 2019-20, so very next year, Heat already built another contender that went to nba finals.


Heat is definition of top tear organisation. from 2010 to present day they won 2 championships and went to finals 4 times.

You don't need to like them ,and that is fine, but creating false narratives and false stories to feel better just comes off as inferiority complex.
Using guys like Josh Ricadson as "bad contract " is flat out silly. Guy averaged 16 ppg and that's why 76ers wanted him in specific for Butler.
Duncan Robinson played for $1,4M as starter in nba finals.
Olynyk is very solid role player, bench big. Guys like James Johnson and Dion Waiters were all eventually traded so whole "awful deals" holds no merrit as they still built contender.

[D12VCMagic]

I am sorry to tell you but being negative doesnt equal smart. I like pepe that you give your different, personal opinion but you are writing a lot of dumb and false things just to stay negative. I exposed you many times, and you always just stop to answer or you keep manipulating information just to pretend you are right.
For starters it would be great if you read with basic understanding. Show me where anybody compared Weltman to Riley ? I will help you. You wont find it becouse nobody wrote such a thing, its only in your own mind.
I have my right to think Riley is overrated.
Hassan Whiteside 4 years 100M
Duncan Robinson 5 years 90M
Dion Waiter 3 years 35M
James Johnson 4 years 60M
Kelly Olynyk 4 years 46M
Justice Winslow 3 years 30M
Josh Richardson 3 years 30M
Thats bad contract, after bad contract, after bad contract, after bad contract, after bad contract, after bad contract, after bad contract. If Weltman signed those you would wrote about it every day. Riley got rescued by even dumber gm's, but that doesnt change fact he gave bad contracts to average at best players. Heat overall as organization are great, but Pat seems to be average at best since 2016. Nobody questions his legacy, but he is getting old and there are better gm's out there nowadays. A lot of credit goes to him which should be given to coaching staff, scouting department and localization. If it wasnt Miami, Butler would never went there and they would swim in mediocrity with their awful contracts.
I wont even comment on the other guy becouse i dont even recognize him and i never saw any meaningful contribution to this board.

Most of those contracts you listed are not even that bad outside of Whiteside and Robinson. The Whiteside contract didn’t handicap their franchise and Robinson’s contract hasn’t prevented them from being a contender either. Paying 10 million a year for veteran role players is not a big deal in today’s climate. Hell, WeltHam is giving Mo Bamba 10.5 million this year and he’s been a straight up bad player for 4 years. Yes, I’m aware it’s short term but the point is that kind of money is not a “bad” contract in today’s NBA. It’s extremely easy to move and surprise, surprise Riley was able to move most of those contracts for upgrades, he literally sent that Richardson contract to Philly to complete a S&T for Jimmy Butler, something you claim he is just “lucky” to have happen. He turned Olynyk into Oladipo.

I don’t even think WeltHam is all that bad, but they’ve not done anything to justify being called a top tier organization without results to back it up. I’m sorry you don’t feel I contribute anything to this board for disagreeing with your takes, I mean no offense but saying WeltHam is better than Pat Riley is a straight up homer take that very few people would agree on.

Like i said, i never wrote Weltman is better than Riley, i just wrote for me he is overrated LATELY. Remember those contracts he gave up were with lower salary cap. In 2016 it was 94M, next season it will be 123,5M. He basically paid 4/75 for James Johnson and 3/43.5 for Waiters who was out of the nba after his contract expired. Whiteside was killing them until Lillard destroyed his own team wanting him on the roster. They went from 53-29 season to 35-39 with Whiteside. Riley was rescued by franchise held hostage by their own star player. Butler trade was available only becouse Jimmy wanted to go to Miami. Before he got there they were treadmill team, with bad longterm contracts and Adebayo who showed flashes but was nothing special at the time. If it wasnt Miami even god himself could be the gm and Butler would have not went there.

1 Josh Richardson 25
2 Justise Winslow 22
3 Goran Dragić 32
4 Dwyane Wade 37
5 Dion Waiters 27
6 Tyler Johnson 26
7 Rodney McGruder 27
8 Bam Adebayo 21
9 Hassan Whiteside 29
10 Kelly Olynyk 27
11 Wayne Ellington 31
12 James Johnson 31
13 Derrick Jones Jr. 21
14 Duncan Robinson 24
15 Udonis Haslem 38
16 Yante Maten 22
17 Ryan Anderson 30
18 Emanuel Terry

What a disaster of a roster. We know how it went later. Philly chose Simmons over Butler. Butler chose city over good roster. Riley made great trades to rehabilitate himself. Adebayo turned into all star under Jimmy, they drafted Herro. Bubble gave second life to Dragic who played like all star in the playoffs. Riley was great gm in the past, he is still good now, but lately IN MY EYES he is overrated.
Regarding Weltman i just like their process i think the results will come. He didnt prove anything yet so its just a speculation from my part.
Thanks for quality post. Its a lot better discussion when i dont have to answer only about homerism and delusion accusations.

I think youre just putting too much into bad contracts, when nothing he’s done has really set their franchise back that hard. He’s definitely made some mistakes, but that’s part of the territory when you agressively make moves. He’s had his blunders, but he consistently is able to rebuild their team into something worth talking about without actively tanking.

Also, star players holding franchises hostage is just a part of the modern NBA and Riley taking advantage shouldnt be a knock on his ability to run a team. Sure, the beautiful beaches and women of Miami help lure stars there, but the culture that Riley has built there over a long period of time is a big reason why stars want to go there too. If the franchise was run like garbage, nobody would go there. Look at the Knicks, New York is literally the mecha of basketball and people avoid them like someone coughing at the grocery store.

As I’ve said, I don’t necessarily think WeltHam is straight up horrible, but I’m not convinced that they are getting it right either. I approve of the current rebuild attempt and think they handled this FA perfectly considering our place in the rebuild. But I didn’t like them not trying to improve on the 2019/2020 squads and just running it back with mediocre rosters and I also think they have been putting their eggs in baskets of players with injury concerns/problems. For that reason, I’m glad they didn’t take the risk on Chet because I’m tired of turning on the Magic game to see Admiral Schofield playing with Jeff Dowtin or whoever because anyone worth watching is sitting on the bench in a suit.

[zaymon]

Most of those contracts you listed are not even that bad outside of Whiteside and Robinson. The Whiteside contract didn’t handicap their franchise and Robinson’s contract hasn’t prevented them from being a contender either. Paying 10 million a year for veteran role players is not a big deal in today’s climate. Hell, WeltHam is giving Mo Bamba 10.5 million this year and he’s been a straight up bad player for 4 years. Yes, I’m aware it’s short term but the point is that kind of money is not a “bad” contract in today’s NBA. It’s extremely easy to move and surprise, surprise Riley was able to move most of those contracts for upgrades, he literally sent that Richardson contract to Philly to complete a S&T for Jimmy Butler, something you claim he is just “lucky” to have happen. He turned Olynyk into Oladipo.

I don’t even think WeltHam is all that bad, but they’ve not done anything to justify being called a top tier organization without results to back it up. I’m sorry you don’t feel I contribute anything to this board for disagreeing with your takes, I mean no offense but saying WeltHam is better than Pat Riley is a straight up homer take that very few people would agree on.

Like i said, i never wrote Weltman is better than Riley, i just wrote for me he is overrated LATELY. Remember those contracts he gave up were with lower salary cap. In 2016 it was 94M, next season it will be 123,5M. He basically paid 4/75 for James Johnson and 3/43.5 for Waiters who was out of the nba after his contract expired. Whiteside was killing them until Lillard destroyed his own team wanting him on the roster. They went from 53-29 season to 35-39 with Whiteside. Riley was rescued by franchise held hostage by their own star player. Butler trade was available only becouse Jimmy wanted to go to Miami. Before he got there they were treadmill team, with bad longterm contracts and Adebayo who showed flashes but was nothing special at the time. If it wasnt Miami even god himself could be the gm and Butler would have not went there.

1 Josh Richardson 25
2 Justise Winslow 22
3 Goran Dragić 32
4 Dwyane Wade 37
5 Dion Waiters 27
6 Tyler Johnson 26
7 Rodney McGruder 27
8 Bam Adebayo 21
9 Hassan Whiteside 29
10 Kelly Olynyk 27
11 Wayne Ellington 31
12 James Johnson 31
13 Derrick Jones Jr. 21
14 Duncan Robinson 24
15 Udonis Haslem 38
16 Yante Maten 22
17 Ryan Anderson 30
18 Emanuel Terry

What a disaster of a roster. We know how it went later. Philly chose Simmons over Butler. Butler chose city over good roster. Riley made great trades to rehabilitate himself. Adebayo turned into all star under Jimmy, they drafted Herro. Bubble gave second life to Dragic who played like all star in the playoffs. Riley was great gm in the past, he is still good now, but lately IN MY EYES he is overrated.
Regarding Weltman i just like their process i think the results will come. He didnt prove anything yet so its just a speculation from my part.
Thanks for quality post. Its a lot better discussion when i dont have to answer only about homerism and delusion accusations.

I think youre just putting too much into bad contracts, when nothing he’s done has really set their franchise back that hard. He’s definitely made some mistakes, but that’s part of the territory when you agressively make moves. He’s had his blunders, but he consistently is able to rebuild their team into something worth talking about without actively tanking.

Also, star players holding franchises hostage is just a part of the modern NBA and Riley taking advantage shouldnt be a knock on his ability to run a team. Sure, the beautiful beaches and women of Miami help lure stars there, but the culture that Riley has built there over a long period of time is a big reason why stars want to go there too. If the franchise was run like garbage, nobody would go there. Look at the Knicks, New York is literally the mecha of basketball and people avoid them like someone coughing at the grocery store.

As I’ve said, I don’t necessarily think WeltHam is straight up horrible, but I’m not convinced that they are getting it right either. I approve of the current rebuild attempt and think they handled this FA perfectly considering our place in the rebuild. But I didn’t like them not trying to improve on the 2019/2020 squads and just running it back with mediocre rosters and I also think they have been putting their eggs in baskets of players with injury concerns/problems. For that reason, I’m glad they didn’t take the risk on Chet because I’m tired of turning on the Magic game to see Admiral Schofield playing with Jeff Dowtin or whoever because anyone worth watching is sitting on the bench in a suit.

In Miami its called Heat culture, in Washington chasing the 8th seed, in Sacramento desperation and in New York incompetence All similar processes with different results. Heat is superior becouse of coaching, trading savvy and scouting department. Whoever is deciding who to sign and responsible for negotiating contracts should be fired.
Actually i have my personal theory. Its called delayed tanking. You try to be average for a couple of years without spending assets, clear your books, gather some high risk/high ceiling prospects and only then you blow it up completely. If you tank too soon you risk having a superstar on your roster without supporting cast and assets. Dallas is kind of in that position.
People didnt know what we were doing. I think we were delayed tanking. Take notice Spurs are doing exactly the same thing but they are 2 years behind us. We can agree Spurs are decent organization ?
Maybe Heat tried to do similar thing ? Only Riley knows if he was ready to blow it up in time, but what we know is that execution was poor with salary allocation. All those players became burdens or neutral salary at best.

[tiderulz]

Narratives are messed up things and opinions are like b*** holes, everybody has one. But naratives created by fabrications and lies are where i draw the line.

Pat Riley took Heat in 1995. He made playoffs 20 out of 27 years, went to nba finals 6 different times, won 3 rings.

Calling him overrated is something else. It's being irrational and delusional. Pat Riley is person who signed prime Lebron James , top 2 best player ever, on 25% below max contract. In same summer he got Bosh.

Reasons why guys like Butler few yeras back, Durant now are pushing their way to Miami, reasons why Lebron wanted to go there is because they know Riley will give them what's needed to be sucessful. Also what Riley showed over years, is that he won't be pushed around by anybody , including Lebron, same Lebron who is pushing around Silver without any issues.

Narrative about "awful Whiteside contract " is just that. Narrative.
Heat resigned 26 years old guy who averaged 14 ppg, 12 rpg, 3,7 bpg and finished season 3rd in voting for DPOY. Heat were on track to win +52 games if Bosh didn't cought up blood clot. Without Bosh they went to second round and played 7 games series vs Toronto
( eventually lost).

Given that nobody knew how serious Bosh condition was and they held hope of him returning, even during playoffs in 2016-17.

Bosh was initially optimistic about a return to the Heat for the 2016–17 season, and the organization had become increasingly hopeful that he would be cleared for camp. Those hopes quickly faded due to Bosh's continued issues with blood clotting.[102] In September 2016, Bosh failed his physical exam and was not cleared by the team to participate in training camp.[

So let's drive home whole logic. You are 48-34 team without your second best player, allstar. You resign player who is 3rd in DPOY voring because only fool wouldn't ,your best player is still top tear basketball player ( D Wade) and you own him opportunity to play for title. It's not like championship window, for your potentially healthy team doesn't exist. It does. You have Dragic- Wade- Deng- Bosh - Whiteside starting 5, that's probably the best , if not -second best team on the East still. Your only competition, serious one, are Cavs, who felll apart year before due injuries.


But Bosh had to retire and Heat kept him on books ( $23M a year, non less) up until end of 2018-19.
By they 2019-20, so very next year, Heat already built another contender that went to nba finals.


Heat is definition of top tear organisation. from 2010 to present day they won 2 championships and went to finals 4 times.

You don't need to like them ,and that is fine, but creating false narratives and false stories to feel better just comes off as inferiority complex.
Using guys like Josh Ricadson as "bad contract " is flat out silly. Guy averaged 16 ppg and that's why 76ers wanted him in specific for Butler.
Duncan Robinson played for $1,4M as starter in nba finals.
Olynyk is very solid role player, bench big. Guys like James Johnson and Dion Waiters were all eventually traded so whole "awful deals" holds no merrit as they still built contender.

1 - Riley signed them only because he was the GM. Wade, JAmes and Bosh talked together and met in Miami. the 3 wanted to play together. I'm not going to give Riley superlatives because of it. Just like I wouldnt give the Clippers GM super credit for Kawhi and PG going to LA.
2- with not much of a track record, Whiteside had a decent year and earned himself a giant paycheck. reminds me a lot of Biyombo. earning a deal they didnt really deserve. similar to Miami overpaying Robinson.

Riley is probably a big reason Butler went to Miami, but it was also because he knew he was going to a team where Butler was the biggest ego on the team. that wasnt going to happen in Philly with Embiid.

[pepe1991]

Narratives are messed up things and opinions are like b*** holes, everybody has one. But naratives created by fabrications and lies are where i draw the line.

Pat Riley took Heat in 1995. He made playoffs 20 out of 27 years, went to nba finals 6 different times, won 3 rings.

Calling him overrated is something else. It's being irrational and delusional. Pat Riley is person who signed prime Lebron James , top 2 best player ever, on 25% below max contract. In same summer he got Bosh.

Reasons why guys like Butler few yeras back, Durant now are pushing their way to Miami, reasons why Lebron wanted to go there is because they know Riley will give them what's needed to be sucessful. Also what Riley showed over years, is that he won't be pushed around by anybody , including Lebron, same Lebron who is pushing around Silver without any issues.

Narrative about "awful Whiteside contract " is just that. Narrative.
Heat resigned 26 years old guy who averaged 14 ppg, 12 rpg, 3,7 bpg and finished season 3rd in voting for DPOY. Heat were on track to win +52 games if Bosh didn't cought up blood clot. Without Bosh they went to second round and played 7 games series vs Toronto
( eventually lost).

Given that nobody knew how serious Bosh condition was and they held hope of him returning, even during playoffs in 2016-17.

Bosh was initially optimistic about a return to the Heat for the 2016–17 season, and the organization had become increasingly hopeful that he would be cleared for camp. Those hopes quickly faded due to Bosh's continued issues with blood clotting.[102] In September 2016, Bosh failed his physical exam and was not cleared by the team to participate in training camp.[

So let's drive home whole logic. You are 48-34 team without your second best player, allstar. You resign player who is 3rd in DPOY voring because only fool wouldn't ,your best player is still top tear basketball player ( D Wade) and you own him opportunity to play for title. It's not like championship window, for your potentially healthy team doesn't exist. It does. You have Dragic- Wade- Deng- Bosh - Whiteside starting 5, that's probably the best , if not -second best team on the East still. Your only competition, serious one, are Cavs, who felll apart year before due injuries.


But Bosh had to retire and Heat kept him on books ( $23M a year, non less) up until end of 2018-19.
By they 2019-20, so very next year, Heat already built another contender that went to nba finals.


Heat is definition of top tear organisation. from 2010 to present day they won 2 championships and went to finals 4 times.

You don't need to like them ,and that is fine, but creating false narratives and false stories to feel better just comes off as inferiority complex.
Using guys like Josh Ricadson as "bad contract " is flat out silly. Guy averaged 16 ppg and that's why 76ers wanted him in specific for Butler.
Duncan Robinson played for $1,4M as starter in nba finals.
Olynyk is very solid role player, bench big. Guys like James Johnson and Dion Waiters were all eventually traded so whole "awful deals" holds no merrit as they still built contender.

1 - Riley signed them only because he was the GM. Wade, JAmes and Bosh talked together and met in Miami. the 3 wanted to play together. I'm not going to give Riley superlatives because of it. Just like I wouldnt give the Clippers GM super credit for Kawhi and PG going to LA.
2- with not much of a track record, Whiteside had a decent year and earned himself a giant paycheck. reminds me a lot of Biyombo. earning a deal they didnt really deserve. similar to Miami overpaying Robinson.

Riley is probably a big reason Butler went to Miami, but it was also because he knew he was going to a team where Butler was the biggest ego on the team. that wasnt going to happen in Philly with Embiid.

https://eu.palmbeachpost.com/story/sports/nba/2010/07/10/lebron-james-admits-pat-riley/7440137007/

10th July, 2010, Lebron himself says Pat Riley sold him on idea of joining teams. Also Heat already built sucessful championship team around Wade ( 2006 championship).

2) Whiteside went to have even better season, in terms of raw numbers after he signed a deal, he had 17 ppg, 14 rpg season.
Even next year he was still doing his job, 14 ppg ,11 rpg, 1,7 bpg.
His impact on defense wasn't same, but it's not like he was unplayable. Biyombo was simply unplayable on any other team but Raptors.

Overpay? Yes? But they had no cap space, they expected Bosh back and they were in situation where they could either:
1) let Whiteside go and do add nobody instad
2) overpay for him and keep potentially contending team

What happend was outside of relm of control of anybody, Bosh was esencially "done" but they didn't seek medical retirement or anything. His sheer existence on salary cap books disabled Heat from doing anything from 2016-2019.

[Furinkazan]

Somebody really compared Weltman to RIley ? Holly Jesus.....
Am i on reddit? When will "Cole Anthony is better than Magic Johnson" thread be opened?

So we just gonna pretend that Riley didn't won championship as player, assitent coach, head coach ( 5 times, non less), isn't one of first people who menaged to build actual super team through free agency and won additional 2 rings as executive?

Guy entered Hall of Fame in 2008.... And kept winning at every level.

I think this place has gotten more delusional and full of homer takes than reddit has actually. I think having a positive outlook is fine but people out here saying WeltHam is running a top tier organization and is comparable to Riley is next level delusion.

This offseason has been...wild... to say a least.

Magic won lottery and people pretend winning something on dumb luck is now masterplan

zaymon made my day

[tiderulz]

Narratives are messed up things and opinions are like b*** holes, everybody has one. But naratives created by fabrications and lies are where i draw the line.

Pat Riley took Heat in 1995. He made playoffs 20 out of 27 years, went to nba finals 6 different times, won 3 rings.

Calling him overrated is something else. It's being irrational and delusional. Pat Riley is person who signed prime Lebron James , top 2 best player ever, on 25% below max contract. In same summer he got Bosh.

Reasons why guys like Butler few yeras back, Durant now are pushing their way to Miami, reasons why Lebron wanted to go there is because they know Riley will give them what's needed to be sucessful. Also what Riley showed over years, is that he won't be pushed around by anybody , including Lebron, same Lebron who is pushing around Silver without any issues.

Narrative about "awful Whiteside contract " is just that. Narrative.
Heat resigned 26 years old guy who averaged 14 ppg, 12 rpg, 3,7 bpg and finished season 3rd in voting for DPOY. Heat were on track to win +52 games if Bosh didn't cought up blood clot. Without Bosh they went to second round and played 7 games series vs Toronto
( eventually lost).

Given that nobody knew how serious Bosh condition was and they held hope of him returning, even during playoffs in 2016-17.



So let's drive home whole logic. You are 48-34 team without your second best player, allstar. You resign player who is 3rd in DPOY voring because only fool wouldn't ,your best player is still top tear basketball player ( D Wade) and you own him opportunity to play for title. It's not like championship window, for your potentially healthy team doesn't exist. It does. You have Dragic- Wade- Deng- Bosh - Whiteside starting 5, that's probably the best , if not -second best team on the East still. Your only competition, serious one, are Cavs, who felll apart year before due injuries.


But Bosh had to retire and Heat kept him on books ( $23M a year, non less) up until end of 2018-19.
By they 2019-20, so very next year, Heat already built another contender that went to nba finals.


Heat is definition of top tear organisation. from 2010 to present day they won 2 championships and went to finals 4 times.

You don't need to like them ,and that is fine, but creating false narratives and false stories to feel better just comes off as inferiority complex.
Using guys like Josh Ricadson as "bad contract " is flat out silly. Guy averaged 16 ppg and that's why 76ers wanted him in specific for Butler.
Duncan Robinson played for $1,4M as starter in nba finals.
Olynyk is very solid role player, bench big. Guys like James Johnson and Dion Waiters were all eventually traded so whole "awful deals" holds no merrit as they still built contender.

1 - Riley signed them only because he was the GM. Wade, JAmes and Bosh talked together and met in Miami. the 3 wanted to play together. I'm not going to give Riley superlatives because of it. Just like I wouldnt give the Clippers GM super credit for Kawhi and PG going to LA.
2- with not much of a track record, Whiteside had a decent year and earned himself a giant paycheck. reminds me a lot of Biyombo. earning a deal they didnt really deserve. similar to Miami overpaying Robinson.

Riley is probably a big reason Butler went to Miami, but it was also because he knew he was going to a team where Butler was the biggest ego on the team. that wasnt going to happen in Philly with Embiid.

https://eu.palmbeachpost.com/story/sports/nba/2010/07/10/lebron-james-admits-pat-riley/7440137007/

10th July, 2010, Lebron himself says Pat Riley sold him on idea of joining teams. Also Heat already built sucessful championship team around Wade ( 2006 championship).

2) Whiteside went to have even better season, in terms of raw numbers after he signed a deal, he had 17 ppg, 14 rpg season.
Even next year he was still doing his job, 14 ppg ,11 rpg, 1,7 bpg.
His impact on defense wasn't same, but it's not like he was unplayable. Biyombo was simply unplayable on any other team but Raptors.

Overpay? Yes? But they had no cap space, they expected Bosh back and they were in situation where they could either:
1) let Whiteside go and do add nobody instad
2) overpay for him and keep potentially contending team

What happend was outside of relm of control of anybody, Bosh was esencially "done" but they didn't seek medical retirement or anything. His sheer existence on salary cap books disabled Heat from doing anything from 2016-2019.

i can cite an article also.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/416339-building-of-a-dynasty-james-bosh-and-wade-could-make-history-together

they were already friends and wanted to team up.

It has been well established that all three, especially Wade and James enjoy an off court camaraderie. They all played pivotal parts in the "Redeem Teams" gold medal showing at the 2008 Beijing Olympics. They have also played together on several All Star teams. During that time they have forged a friendship that is poised to be much stronger then most thought.

The last 12 months there has been speculations that Wade and James might go to New York in order to revitalize the Knicks. More recently it's been all but confirmed that Bosh and James were going to go to Chicago and try to bring back the success enjoyed during the Jordan glory days. Then last week we had the report that the "Summit" between the NBA elite took place and that the outcome of it has left the Miami Heat as the team that might land all three

they were also able to swallow taking a paycut because no state taxes in Florida. So Riley didnt propose the idea of teaming up, he just helped facilitate it. The players decided it. Yeah, Riley went all in on it and helped sell the idea, what GM wouldnt.

[pepe1991]

1 - Riley signed them only because he was the GM. Wade, JAmes and Bosh talked together and met in Miami. the 3 wanted to play together. I'm not going to give Riley superlatives because of it. Just like I wouldnt give the Clippers GM super credit for Kawhi and PG going to LA.
2- with not much of a track record, Whiteside had a decent year and earned himself a giant paycheck. reminds me a lot of Biyombo. earning a deal they didnt really deserve. similar to Miami overpaying Robinson.

Riley is probably a big reason Butler went to Miami, but it was also because he knew he was going to a team where Butler was the biggest ego on the team. that wasnt going to happen in Philly with Embiid.

https://eu.palmbeachpost.com/story/sports/nba/2010/07/10/lebron-james-admits-pat-riley/7440137007/

10th July, 2010, Lebron himself says Pat Riley sold him on idea of joining teams. Also Heat already built sucessful championship team around Wade ( 2006 championship).

2) Whiteside went to have even better season, in terms of raw numbers after he signed a deal, he had 17 ppg, 14 rpg season.
Even next year he was still doing his job, 14 ppg ,11 rpg, 1,7 bpg.
His impact on defense wasn't same, but it's not like he was unplayable. Biyombo was simply unplayable on any other team but Raptors.

Overpay? Yes? But they had no cap space, they expected Bosh back and they were in situation where they could either:
1) let Whiteside go and do add nobody instad
2) overpay for him and keep potentially contending team

What happend was outside of relm of control of anybody, Bosh was esencially "done" but they didn't seek medical retirement or anything. His sheer existence on salary cap books disabled Heat from doing anything from 2016-2019.

i can cite an article also.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/416339-building-of-a-dynasty-james-bosh-and-wade-could-make-history-together

they were already friends and wanted to team up.

It has been well established that all three, especially Wade and James enjoy an off court camaraderie. They all played pivotal parts in the "Redeem Teams" gold medal showing at the 2008 Beijing Olympics. They have also played together on several All Star teams. During that time they have forged a friendship that is poised to be much stronger then most thought.

The last 12 months there has been speculations that Wade and James might go to New York in order to revitalize the Knicks. More recently it's been all but confirmed that Bosh and James were going to go to Chicago and try to bring back the success enjoyed during the Jordan glory days. Then last week we had the report that the "Summit" between the NBA elite took place and that the outcome of it has left the Miami Heat as the team that might land all three

they were also able to swallow taking a paycut because no state taxes in Florida. So Riley didnt propose the idea of teaming up, he just helped facilitate it. The players decided it. Yeah, Riley went all in on it and helped sell the idea, what GM wouldnt.

Lebron credited Riley himself, and if he had Riley on Cavs, or Bosh with Raptors they would not left.
Wade didn't left because Riley already delivered championship roster in 2006.
Riley created enough of cap room for all 3, rest is history.

I don't get your point, from 1995 to 2022 Heat went to playoffs 20 out of 27 times, they went to finals 6 times and won 3 rings.
What's there to prove?

Shortlist of Durant destinations now includes who? Heat ofc.

So tell me execlly how and why guy who won at ALL levels is overrated like poster claimed or what makes Magic "top tear organization*?

[BadMofoPimp]

I would disagree with the Riley haters. His teams rarely if ever have to tank and always seem to retool and contend within short periods of time. I would say he is underrated. If he was the Magics GM, he would be praised here. But, since he is not, he is hated which is atypical of RealGM posters hating what they don't have.

[tiderulz]

https://eu.palmbeachpost.com/story/sports/nba/2010/07/10/lebron-james-admits-pat-riley/7440137007/

10th July, 2010, Lebron himself says Pat Riley sold him on idea of joining teams. Also Heat already built sucessful championship team around Wade ( 2006 championship).

2) Whiteside went to have even better season, in terms of raw numbers after he signed a deal, he had 17 ppg, 14 rpg season.
Even next year he was still doing his job, 14 ppg ,11 rpg, 1,7 bpg.
His impact on defense wasn't same, but it's not like he was unplayable. Biyombo was simply unplayable on any other team but Raptors.

Overpay? Yes? But they had no cap space, they expected Bosh back and they were in situation where they could either:
1) let Whiteside go and do add nobody instad
2) overpay for him and keep potentially contending team

What happend was outside of relm of control of anybody, Bosh was esencially "done" but they didn't seek medical retirement or anything. His sheer existence on salary cap books disabled Heat from doing anything from 2016-2019.

i can cite an article also.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/416339-building-of-a-dynasty-james-bosh-and-wade-could-make-history-together

they were already friends and wanted to team up.

It has been well established that all three, especially Wade and James enjoy an off court camaraderie. They all played pivotal parts in the "Redeem Teams" gold medal showing at the 2008 Beijing Olympics. They have also played together on several All Star teams. During that time they have forged a friendship that is poised to be much stronger then most thought.

The last 12 months there has been speculations that Wade and James might go to New York in order to revitalize the Knicks. More recently it's been all but confirmed that Bosh and James were going to go to Chicago and try to bring back the success enjoyed during the Jordan glory days. Then last week we had the report that the "Summit" between the NBA elite took place and that the outcome of it has left the Miami Heat as the team that might land all three

they were also able to swallow taking a paycut because no state taxes in Florida. So Riley didnt propose the idea of teaming up, he just helped facilitate it. The players decided it. Yeah, Riley went all in on it and helped sell the idea, what GM wouldnt.

Lebron credited Riley himself, and if he had Riley on Cavs, or Bosh with Raptors they would not left.
Wade didn't left because Riley already delivered championship roster in 2006.
Riley created enough of cap room for all 3, rest is history.

I don't get your point, from 1995 to 2022 Heat went to playoffs 20 out of 27 times, they went to finals 6 times and won 3 rings.
What's there to prove?

Shortlist of Durant destinations now includes who? Heat ofc.

So tell me execlly how and why guy who won at ALL levels is overrated like poster claimed or what makes Magic "top tear organization*?

i didnt say Riley overrated. I said the players made the decision to get together and Riley facilitated it.

and of course Durant wants to go to Miami. Butler is the Alpha there and Durant wants to be the highest paid player, but sit in the background while someone else leads and takes the blame if they dont win a title.

[Optimus_Steel]

What Riley has done in Miami since he has been there has been remarkable. They've won titles and every time they had to retool he makes it happen and gets them contending again. We wish we had his track record here. That team is respected, people want to go there, we are seen as Sacramento East....

[jezzerinho]

Getting back on track from the "is Riley great?" sidebar (which i can't believe is even a question),

I go back to my original point that it's bad for the team to have TWO head guys who are both essentially conservative, long-term focussed, player-loyal and averse to churning the roster and/or selling high/buying low.

One guy needs to be capable of doing more than drafting and extending guys irrespective of their value to the team vs the market.

[SOUL]

Gonna unsticky this but not lock it since FA is still going on just not as crazy.