Lebron vs Jordan Playoff AUPM/BPM

Moderators: Clyde Frazier, Doctor MJ, trex_8063, penbeast0, PaulieWal

OhayoKD
Head Coach
Posts: 6,042
And1: 3,930
Joined: Jun 22, 2022

Lebron vs Jordan Playoff AUPM/BPM 

Post#1 » by OhayoKD » Mon Jul 11, 2022 1:56 pm

Note: I don't have access to all the paywall stuff ben uses so I'm just getting this from his videos(specifically the 2021 top 10 players list and the peak ranking vid). For Lebron ben uses "average bpm/pipm" so i'll do the same converstion with mj.

Ben only lists 1 three year sample for jordan
Jordan's average from 89-91 is +7.7 in backpicks bpm and +7 in aupm, averaging to +7.35


For Lebron Ben lists three different three year samples(08-10, 12-14, 15-17) in AUPM:
08-10:+6.8, 16-18:+6.7, 12-14:+5.1

He only lists 12-14 for both bpm and aupm:
12-14: +5.8


So if we just use his three year averages, we see that lebron has a bunch of three-year stretches close to MJ but MJ's 89-91 scores highest. However it's interesting that lebron has three 3 year stretches that rank so high(2nd, 3rd, and 7th) and the lowest score came from the years ben rated as Lebron's peak. If we take a look at lebron's best two years from each of those three year stretches...(aupm/bpm is averaged)

Lebron's 09, 10, 12, 13, 16 and 17 are at +10, +8, +7.5, +7, +7.5, and +7.7 respectively.

You get 5 different seasons which would all boost the average of MJ's 89-91 peak.

14, 18, and 08 are all low points impact wise which prevent lebron from matching jordan statistically in this metric over three consecutive years even though he seems to comfortably have the best individual years by this stat. So i guess that opens a philosophical question of whether it's more important to string your best years in a row or to generally have better years when evaluating peaks.
f4p
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,691
And1: 1,719
Joined: Sep 19, 2021
 

Re: Lebron vs Jordan Playoff AUPM/BPM 

Post#2 » by f4p » Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:41 am

i know lebron wasn't playing much defense, but seems hard to believe 2018 wasn't that impactful. it probably combined 2 things better than any other playoff run i can think of:
1) huge carry job statistically
2) maximizing the carry job by playing well in the closest games

until game 1 of the finals, lebron was barely wasting big performances. they got outscored by at least 40 in the indy series and won the 4 games by 3, 3, 4, and 4, with lebron basically being great in all 4. similar in the boston series and in the closer games of the toronto series. it was historic production that was perfectly maximized, there was no way to have gotten more out of it. but maybe all the blowouts are holding down the overall impact?
falcolombardi
General Manager
Posts: 9,439
And1: 7,056
Joined: Apr 13, 2021
       

Re: Lebron vs Jordan Playoff AUPM/BPM 

Post#3 » by falcolombardi » Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:49 am

f4p wrote:i know lebron wasn't playing much defense, but seems hard to believe 2018 wasn't that impactful. it probably combined 2 things better than any other playoff run i can think of:
1) huge carry job statistically
2) maximizing the carry job by playing well in the closest games

until game 1 of the finals, lebron was barely wasting big performances. they got outscored by at least 40 in the indy series and won the 4 games by 3, 3, 4, and 4, with lebron basically being great in all 4. similar in the boston series and in the closer games of the toronto series. it was historic production that was perfectly maximized, there was no way to have gotten more out of it. but maybe all the blowouts are holding down the overall impact?


The very high minutes per game also may not help

If the lebron-less units do ok in very limited amd garbage heavy minutes it will make lebron impact look weak

The off part of on-off in playoffs is tricky, single playoffs are already a small-ish sample size and as stars sometimes play a ton of minutes in them the off sample size becomes tiny and volatile
OhayoKD
Head Coach
Posts: 6,042
And1: 3,930
Joined: Jun 22, 2022

Re: Lebron vs Jordan Playoff AUPM/BPM 

Post#4 » by OhayoKD » Tue Jul 12, 2022 1:47 am

falcolombardi wrote:
f4p wrote:i know lebron wasn't playing much defense, but seems hard to believe 2018 wasn't that impactful. it probably combined 2 things better than any other playoff run i can think of:
1) huge carry job statistically
2) maximizing the carry job by playing well in the closest games

until game 1 of the finals, lebron was barely wasting big performances. they got outscored by at least 40 in the indy series and won the 4 games by 3, 3, 4, and 4, with lebron basically being great in all 4. similar in the boston series and in the closer games of the toronto series. it was historic production that was perfectly maximized, there was no way to have gotten more out of it. but maybe all the blowouts are holding down the overall impact?


The very high minutes per game also may not help

If the lebron-less units do ok in very limited amd garbage heavy minutes it will make lebron impact look weak

The off part of on-off in playoffs is tricky, single playoffs are already a small-ish sample size and as stars sometimes play a ton of minutes in them the off sample size becomes tiny and volatile

cavs getting outscored by the pacers also probably doesn't help
OhayoKD
Head Coach
Posts: 6,042
And1: 3,930
Joined: Jun 22, 2022

Re: Lebron vs Jordan Playoff AUPM/BPM 

Post#5 » by OhayoKD » Wed Jul 13, 2022 1:11 am

does anyone have access to ben's patreon thing? I'd like to know what mj's individual years look like

Return to Player Comparisons