Evolution of the NBA from 1950 to Today

[queridiculo]

This was a travel just a few decades ago. The rules have changed so much, that it's really hard to compare.

This wasn't a travel a few decades ago either, it was a bad call.

It certainly was, which is why the Euro step wasn't used.

Mate, that's a classic one-two step, no gather involved.

Two things, it's the Bulls, and it's Rod Strickland who was routinely at the receiving end of bull calls because of how advanced his footwork and handling was for the time.

[JonFromVA]

While digging in to the details is always fun, this is actually super simple. NBA defenses evolved and improved to the point that NBA offenses had stagnated. The NBA didn't care to wait any longer to see how the sport evolved next, so they stepped in to try to restore the balance (aka freedom of movement).

[bbalnation]

You also said this:



Bu the way, you mention Steph, who is one of the best ball-handlers in the league and compare him to players who weren't elite ball handlers back then.

I added the quote before you posted.

Theres truth in both statements. I ask you to separate them.

In the flow of a game, people in 2020 would accidentally & occasionally not fall outside the dribbling rules of the 1950s

Thats what happens when a person has access to be able to develop skills to excel in both systems


Stephs pre-game routine is one that is copied by thousands, if not millions, around the world today. Professional players or not. You've spammed me to check out Youtube: maybe you can do the same on what drills are out there for today's players. Some are in line with the rules of the 1950s. Most are in line with the rules of 2022.

The dribbling skills of 2022 has grown and seen an evolution of the dribbling skills of the 1950s. The rule changes have had positive and negative consequences.

We haven't seen modern players exceling in both systems in funcional way. Doing a pre-game routine is nothing compared to basketball game. We haven't seen them doing it against set defenses with potential pressure or double teams.

Again, it seems that players back then were unable to make a left handed dribble moves. Probably some of them struggled with their left hands, but they weren't guards that handled the ball. Players were more secure with their handles back then, but it doesn't mean they could dribble with their left. I can show you hundreds of examples of left handed dribbles back then, it wasn't anything rare.

We haven't seen 1960s ball-handlers within modern rules, but modern rules are easier to handle than older ones. Does it mean that 1960s guards had better handles? Probably not, because players today specialize to develop this part of the game. It does mean that fans impression of 1960s players sucking at dribbling is plain wrong though.

Okay, I'll bite.

Please share two or three videos where an average guard or forward from the 1950s dribbles with his off-hand, on that side of the court, for longer than 2-4 dribbles.

[70sFan]

I added the quote before you posted.

Theres truth in both statements. I ask you to separate them.

In the flow of a game, people in 2020 would accidentally & occasionally not fall outside the dribbling rules of the 1950s

Thats what happens when a person has access to be able to develop skills to excel in both systems


Stephs pre-game routine is one that is copied by thousands, if not millions, around the world today. Professional players or not. You've spammed me to check out Youtube: maybe you can do the same on what drills are out there for today's players. Some are in line with the rules of the 1950s. Most are in line with the rules of 2022.

The dribbling skills of 2022 has grown and seen an evolution of the dribbling skills of the 1950s. The rule changes have had positive and negative consequences.

We haven't seen modern players exceling in both systems in funcional way. Doing a pre-game routine is nothing compared to basketball game. We haven't seen them doing it against set defenses with potential pressure or double teams.

Again, it seems that players back then were unable to make a left handed dribble moves. Probably some of them struggled with their left hands, but they weren't guards that handled the ball. Players were more secure with their handles back then, but it doesn't mean they could dribble with their left. I can show you hundreds of examples of left handed dribbles back then, it wasn't anything rare.

We haven't seen 1960s ball-handlers within modern rules, but modern rules are easier to handle than older ones. Does it mean that 1960s guards had better handles? Probably not, because players today specialize to develop this part of the game. It does mean that fans impression of 1960s players sucking at dribbling is plain wrong though.

Okay, I'll bite.

Please share two or three videos where an average guard or forward from the 1950s dribbles with his off-hand, on that side of the court, for longer than 2-4 dribbles.

Why would anyone dribble the ball for longer than 4 dribbles straight without performing any moves?

Anyway, here are some examples of the use of weaker hand for dribbling:

Second possession of the game, from by far the worst team in the league. #21 is Slick Leonard, who was right handed.

Same quarter, same player.

Slick was a scrub, he wasn't even average guard from that period.

[bbalnation]

We haven't seen modern players exceling in both systems in funcional way. Doing a pre-game routine is nothing compared to basketball game. We haven't seen them doing it against set defenses with potential pressure or double teams.

Again, it seems that players back then were unable to make a left handed dribble moves. Probably some of them struggled with their left hands, but they weren't guards that handled the ball. Players were more secure with their handles back then, but it doesn't mean they could dribble with their left. I can show you hundreds of examples of left handed dribbles back then, it wasn't anything rare.

We haven't seen 1960s ball-handlers within modern rules, but modern rules are easier to handle than older ones. Does it mean that 1960s guards had better handles? Probably not, because players today specialize to develop this part of the game. It does mean that fans impression of 1960s players sucking at dribbling is plain wrong though.

Okay, I'll bite.

Please share two or three videos where an average guard or forward from the 1950s dribbles with his off-hand, on that side of the court, for longer than 2-4 dribbles.

Why would anyone dribble the ball for longer than 4 dribbles straight without performing any moves?

Anyway, here are some examples of the use of weaker hand for dribbling:

Second possession of the game, from by far the worst team in the league. #21 is Slick Leonard, who was right handed.

Same quarter, same player.

Slick was a scrub, he wasn't even average guard from that period.

He dribbles for about 6 seconds of the 10 seconds video.

Hes looking down for 5 or 5.5 seconds out of the 6 seconds. Hes not looking up.

Regardless of the rules, there is no professional basketball player under 6'9 today who would dribble the way Slick did in the 2nd video.

In the first video, he dribbles into traffic. When a person is looking down while dribbling in order to maintain body and basketball control: its bound to eventually happen, especially in a 2 pointers only era, when the skill of long-distance shooting wasn't as collectively developed or evolved. I would imagine players learned that pretty quickly: it helps to look up, for both hands, on both sides of the court.


I send colondences to Slicks loved ones. He appears to have been an impactful figure in Indiana's basketball community.

[bbalnation]

Double post

[70sFan]

Okay, I'll bite.

Please share two or three videos where an average guard or forward from the 1950s dribbles with his off-hand, on that side of the court, for longer than 2-4 dribbles.

Why would anyone dribble the ball for longer than 4 dribbles straight without performing any moves?

Anyway, here are some examples of the use of weaker hand for dribbling:

Second possession of the game, from by far the worst team in the league. #21 is Slick Leonard, who was right handed.

Same quarter, same player.

Slick was a scrub, he wasn't even average guard from that period.

He dribbles for about 6 seconds of the 10 seconds video.

Hes looking down for 5 or 5.5 seconds out of the 6 seconds. Hes not looking up.

Regardless of the rules, there is no professional basketball player under 6'9 today who would dribble the way Slick did in the 2nd video.

Look up Slick!

He was looking up, I have no idea what you're talking about. You also completely ignore the first clip.

Your first ask was insane as it was by the way - I just watched the first 6 minutes of last game of the finals and I counted only two situations of 4+ dribbles with the left straight - one from Green in hand-off action and another from Wiggins in transition. Players don't use weaker hand that often, you have double standards for 1960s players.

[bbalnation]

Why would anyone dribble the ball for longer than 4 dribbles straight without performing any moves?

Anyway, here are some examples of the use of weaker hand for dribbling:

Second possession of the game, from by far the worst team in the league. #21 is Slick Leonard, who was right handed.

Same quarter, same player.

Slick was a scrub, he wasn't even average guard from that period.

He dribbles for about 6 seconds of the 10 seconds video.

Hes looking down for 5 or 5.5 seconds out of the 6 seconds. Hes not looking up.

Regardless of the rules, there is no professional basketball player under 6'9 today who would dribble the way Slick did in the 2nd video.

Look up Slick!

He was looking up, I have no idea what you're talking about. You also completely ignore the first clip.

Your first ask was insane as it was by the way - I just watched the first 6 minutes of last game of the finals and I counted only two situations of 4+ dribbles with the left straight - one from Green in hand-off action and another from Wiggins in transition. Players don't use weaker hand that often, you have double standards for 1960s players.

A player thats receiving pressure from full court will dribble with their off-hand eventually.

A Gary Payton II, Patrick Beverley defensive video compilation could be a helpful place to find offensive players using their off-hands (then losing the ball, because that'd be the point of the compilation, but I'd hope my points would be made clearer).

[70sFan]

He dribbles for about 6 seconds of the 10 seconds video.

Hes looking down for 5 or 5.5 seconds out of the 6 seconds. Hes not looking up.

Regardless of the rules, there is no professional basketball player under 6'9 today who would dribble the way Slick did in the 2nd video.

Look up Slick!

He was looking up, I have no idea what you're talking about. You also completely ignore the first clip.

Your first ask was insane as it was by the way - I just watched the first 6 minutes of last game of the finals and I counted only two situations of 4+ dribbles with the left straight - one from Green in hand-off action and another from Wiggins in transition. Players don't use weaker hand that often, you have double standards for 1960s players.

A player thats receiving pressure from full court will dribble with their off-hand eventually.

A Gary Payton II, Patrick Beverley defensive video compilation could be a helpful place to find offensive players using their off-hands (then losing the ball, because that'd be the point of the compilation, but I'd hope my points would be made clearer).

Same thing happened in the 1960s...

[bbalnation]

He was looking up, I have no idea what you're talking about. You also completely ignore the first clip.

Your first ask was insane as it was by the way - I just watched the first 6 minutes of last game of the finals and I counted only two situations of 4+ dribbles with the left straight - one from Green in hand-off action and another from Wiggins in transition. Players don't use weaker hand that often, you have double standards for 1960s players.

A player thats receiving pressure from full court will dribble with their off-hand eventually.

A Gary Payton II, Patrick Beverley defensive video compilation could be a helpful place to find offensive players using their off-hands (then losing the ball, because that'd be the point of the compilation, but I'd hope my points would be made clearer).

Same thing happened in the 1960s...

Sorry mate were gonna circle back to the original link. I appreciate the insight in watching the games live. But this isn't the only video I've seen where defenders can't take the ball away, despite it appearing to be high intensity situations.

My assumption is: Dennis Rodman, OG, Gary Payton, etc. would have a field day in steals. Even if its 1 on 1 defense, without the ability to apply team pressure due to the rules.

https://c.tenor.com/H0foamBzrn4AAAAC/bob-cousy-crossover.gif

[70sFan]

A player thats receiving pressure from full court will dribble with their off-hand eventually.

A Gary Payton II, Patrick Beverley defensive video compilation could be a helpful place to find offensive players using their off-hands (then losing the ball, because that'd be the point of the compilation, but I'd hope my points would be made clearer).

Same thing happened in the 1960s...

Sorry mate were gonna circle back to the original link. I appreciate the insight in watching the games live. But this isn't the only video I've seen where defenders can't take the ball away, despite it appearing to be high intensity situations.

My assumption is: Dennis Rodman, OG, Gary Payton, etc. would have a field day in steals. Even if its 1 on 1 defense, without the ability to apply team pressure due to the rules.

https://c.tenor.com/H0foamBzrn4AAAAC/bob-cousy-crossover.gif

I didn't watch these games live, I'm probably younger than you

You showed a gif from the beginning of Cousy career that is extremely popular and extremely misleading. It's from the late 1940s or the early 1950s, NBA looked much different in the 1960s.

If 1960s players could survive Walt Frazier or Jerry West pressure, they would be able to survive Dennis Rodman or Gary Payton.

You can see Jerry West here taking three left handed dribbles during the drive with Frazier's pressure for example:

Watch on YouTube

[bbalnation]

Same thing happened in the 1960s...

Sorry mate were gonna circle back to the original link. I appreciate the insight in watching the games live. But this isn't the only video I've seen where defenders can't take the ball away, despite it appearing to be high intensity situations.

My assumption is: Dennis Rodman, OG, Gary Payton, etc. would have a field day in steals. Even if its 1 on 1 defense, without the ability to apply team pressure due to the rules.

https://c.tenor.com/H0foamBzrn4AAAAC/bob-cousy-crossover.gif

I didn't watch these games live, I'm probably younger than you

You showed a gif from the beginning of Cousy career that is extremely popular and extremely misleading. It's from the late 1940s or the early 1950s, NBA looked much different in the 1960s.

If 1960s players could survive Walt Frazier or Jerry West pressure, they would be able to survive Dennis Rodman or Gary Payton.

You can see Jerry West here taking three left handed dribbles during the drive with Frazier's pressure for example:

Watch on YouTube

This is the first clip that appeared when I searched "Bob Cousy left hand"

Watch on YouTube

0:58: look at how high the dribble is on the left hand
1:13 stops his dribble, left side after dribbling the ball with his left once. Hes now limited in options, back to the net and defender. That's a trap 3 decades ago, if not more.
1:37 difference between his comfort on the left and right hand dribbling is obvious
2:00 stuck again, after two dribbles on the left
3:18 iconic scene. However, hes dribbling with his right against 4 players, on the left side.

I will also say:

Holy **** he had some buckets and dimes, especially relative to his time.

[Frosty]

As for the video. It's way too simplistic in what I can't even call an analysis. He mostly understands the illegal D rules of the 90's but not completely. Many of the plays he talks about in his 2004 analysis would be the same in the 90's.

I really wanted to see how he handled the shift the league made in 2005 that made things into the version of basketball we have today. Would he take a game before or after the rule changes. Well he took the last series the NBA played before they opened things up for the offense. Then he never mentioned the monumental shift the league made that changed things forever. I just don't know how he can spend so much time talking about illegal D and not address the changes the league made to "to allow for more offensive freedom". That's what opened things up and unless he touched on it after, it seems he skipped right by it.

All in all taking one game and portraying it as indicative of an era's style is pretty silly. I mean teams have completely different styles in most eras.

[CharityStripe34]

It would be nice to counter-balance a lot of the "bombs away from three" style of play with some cool post-play. Problem is refs today almost always give the benefit of the doubt to the defender if there is any sort of physicality associated with a post-up play. Especially if a small gets switched onto a big they automatically flop like a fish and get a charge called.

[WaltFrazier]

It's a cool video, but you can miss a lot of nuances by watching a single game from each decade. For example, post game wasn't only about hook shots in the 1960s - Wilt Chamberlain, the best post player of that era basically didn't use hook shots. Another thing is that the guy narrating this video doesn't have much idea about rules changes and judges everything from modern perspective (Julius didn't have modern handles, because he wasn't allowed to).

As I said, you need to watch a lot more than one game per decade to understand how the game has changed.

Also many 70s players did have great handles - Frazier, Monroe, Archibald, Maravich Robertson, Westphal on and on