[Super Hot Take From Igoudala] Rasheed Wallace > Giannis Antetokounmpo In Todays NBA

[Nate505]

That's almost as hot a take as Andre Igoudala being a HOF caliber player.

[WaltFrazier]

I recall a SI article in the early 2000s about the super power forwards in the Western Conference. Antonio Mcdyess who before knee injury had an amazing vertical, Rasheed, Tim Duncan, KG, and Chris Webber. Much debate about who was the best at the time.

I think Iggy is exaggerating but it's still interesting to speculate how these guys would do in today's game. They'd all be 5s, and maybe Rasheed and CWebb would move ahead of Tim because of their greater outside range.

[og15]

It almost feels like Rasheed has gotten overrated for being underrated.

You're getting at it. Sheed really was better than people realized from 99-08. The better stats we have now show his impact on the game was a lot higher than realized back then. His approach now seems smarter.

But now people are overadjusting and giving him way too much credit.

For example, Suns probably beat the Bucks in 2021 if they had Sheed at C instead of Ayton, even though there are things Ayton does better in terms of being a roll man and finishing at a really high percentage a the rim, Sheed's defense, floor spacing and ability to also be a give the ball to scoring option change things for that team. He was a really good two way player, but yea, just looking at "oh he had range, people shoot more three's now = superstar" is obviously not sound analysis.

[sp6r=underrated]

It almost feels like Rasheed has gotten overrated for being underrated.

You're getting at it. Sheed really was better than people realized from 99-08. The better stats we have now show his impact on the game was a lot higher than realized back then. His approach now seems smarter.

But now people are overadjusting and giving him way too much credit.

For example, Suns probably beat the Bucks in 2021 if they had Sheed at C instead of Ayton, even though there are things Ayton does better in terms of being a roll man and finishing at a really high percentage a the rim, Sheed's defense, floor spacing and ability to also be a give the ball to scoring option change things for that team. He was a really good two way player, but yea, just looking at "oh he had range, people shoot more three's now = superstar" is obviously not sound analysis.

And for almost all of Sheeds prime no one looked at +/- numbers beyond 82games which was very raw. It just wasn't a big deal. Now even average look at it. And Sheed looks *great* by that metric. Still not Giannis though and it is silly

[Tor_Raps]

everyone can have like their opinion, man.

Nah, this is straight gaslighting bro haha

Exactly... this is when freedom of speech goes too far. Someone arrest that man loll

[CharityStripe34]

Iggy seems like a cool dude but also claimed Kyrie is a Top 20 all-time player. Kewl.

[otwok]

The problem with Sheed wasn't talent. He could've been a top 5 player in his day too. His problem was in his head. That doesn't change all because he plays in a different era.

[sp6r=underrated]

I recall a SI article in the early 2000s about the super power forwards in the Western Conference. Antonio Mcdyess who before knee injury had an amazing vertical, Rasheed, Tim Duncan, KG, and Chris Webber. Much debate about who was the best at the time.

I think Iggy is exaggerating but it's still interesting to speculate how these guys would do in today's game. They'd all be 5s, and maybe Rasheed and CWebb would move ahead of Tim because of their greater outside range.

I'm fascinated to know which guys would develop a 3 if they practiced since HS. KG in his high volume free throw shooting days peaked at 81 and by the end of his career was in the 84-85 range. That gives me a lot of confidence he'd shoot it well. Webber's free throw shooting improved dramatically over his career (50s to high 70s). That gives me some confidence he could become decent from downtown.

And Duncan was all over the map going as low 59% to 82% at a high volume. I'm not sure how he would do in an era when you get taught the 3 ball at 7 ft.

[SK21209]

I recall a SI article in the early 2000s about the super power forwards in the Western Conference. Antonio Mcdyess who before knee injury had an amazing vertical, Rasheed, Tim Duncan, KG, and Chris Webber. Much debate about who was the best at the time.

I think Iggy is exaggerating but it's still interesting to speculate how these guys would do in today's game. They'd all be 5s, and maybe Rasheed and CWebb would move ahead of Tim because of their greater outside range.

Nah, Duncan was always on another level compared to those guys. Sheed was a career 34% three point shooter on 3.3 attempts per game while Webber was at 30% on 1.1 attempts per game. Obviously today they'd probably take more threes, but in general I think we tend to overrate shooting from big men. Porzingis, for example, is regarded as a stretch 5 but he's a career 35% three point shooter on 5 attempts per game. It's impressive to see guys that big shooting threes at all since its still fairly new, but how much is that really helping you? Also, Webber would still primarily be a 4 IMO except in short stints. He never offered much rim protection.

Prime Duncan, before the leg injuries really sapped his athleticism, was just way better than those guys. He was an infinitely better defender than Webber, way more polished than Rasheed and a more reliable offensive anchor than KG. Since I've started watching basketball(2002ish) Peak LeBron is the only guy I'd say is definitively better than peak Duncan. I'd argue Kobe, but I would never say its definitive. There's an "Is Duncan underrated" thread every other month here, but the man really was an absolute monster. He was First Team All-NBA in 2013 at age 36, dominating guys like Bosh, Griffin and Howard. Rasheed and CWebb were great players (CWebb in particular has been overshadowed), but Duncan owns those guys in any era.

[Salieri]

Andre Iguodala is launching a podcast and is one of the most business minded people in the NBA. Expect several intentional hot takes in the near future because pissing you off is like injecting steroids into your Youtube channel and algorithm strategy.

Then I hope his 20 first guests refuse to talk about anything else other than how him receiving the FMVP trophy destroyed that award's reputation.

If he likes controversy, let's see how does he like them apples.

He could have made his point, which was a reasonable one, without the need to mention Giannis and without the hyperbole.

Yeah, Rasheed would have been better today. No, Rasheed wouldn't have been a top 5 today. No, not even in his wildest dreams Rasheed would ever come close to being as good as Giannis.

But I guess reasonable takes don't generate buzz and clicks. Oh well. As I said, I really hope his FMVP becomes the main topic of discussion in his future podcast. We have seen plenty of people snapping and losing their sh*t while being interviewed or as guests. Seeing that from a host is not nearly as common, and I would appreciate it much more. And it would generate a TON of clicks, so win-win.

[Ayt]

This is obviously ridiculous but let's not sully Sheed's fine name. He was awesome.

He's one of the most overrated players of all time with how some people talk about him.

[CharityStripe34]

Andre Iguodala is launching a podcast and is one of the most business minded people in the NBA. Expect several intentional hot takes in the near future because pissing you off is like injecting steroids into your Youtube channel and algorithm strategy.

Then I hope his 20 first guests refuse to talk about anything else other than how him receiving the FMVP trophy destroyed that award's reputation.

If he likes controversy, let's see how does he like them apples.

He could have made his point, which was a reasonable one, without the need to mention Giannis and without the hyperbole.

Yeah, Rasheed would have been better today. No, Rasheed wouldn't have been a top 5 today. No, not even in his wildest dreams Rasheed would ever come close to being as good as Giannis.

But I guess reasonable takes don't generate buzz and clicks. Oh well. As I said, I really hope his FMVP becomes the main topic of discussion in his future podcast. We have seen plenty of people snapping and losing their sh*t while being interviewed or as guests. Seeing that from a host is not nearly as common, and I would appreciate it much more. And it would generate a TON of clicks, so win-win.

Reasonable statements don't exactly count for RealGM thread-starters. There's that.

[homecourtloss]

Andre Iguodala is launching a podcast and is one of the most business minded people in the NBA. Expect several intentional hot takes in the near future because pissing you off is like injecting steroids into your Youtube channel and algorithm strategy.

it surprised me that people still havent caught onto the bait yet. you gotta at least move the boat a little bit or change the type of food on the hook once in a while when you go fishing.

Exactly. Iggy is a high IQ player who looks to be a high IQ brand promoter.

Also, while Rasheed is not on Giannis’s level, he was a high impact two-way player. In the 1997–2014 RAPM dataset, ‘Sheed comes in at #26.

https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/97-14-rapm-2b

[Dan Z]

Rasheed always had All-time great talent.

I agree. He could've been all-time great in any era.

The problem wasn't his talent, it was himself.

[sp6r=underrated]

Sheed's game is more valuable in today's league, but the reasons why he never reached his full potential aren't magically solved by transporting him to 2022.

Exactly! Players like Kobe and Giannis stay on the court practicing while others are out partying.....that is why they are so great and others fail.

I don't see Sheed as a big underachiever but whatever disappointment you feel for his career isn't related to work ethic. He had a very strong work ethic throughout his career.

It was temperament. He chronically got himself taken out of games by ejections and mentally through his childish war with the refs. Dray gets a big pass for acting like a jerk to the refs and it still cost his team in the biggest way getting ejected from a final game. Sheed got no pass and got kicked out of playoff games for staring.

And it wasn't just the ejections but the childish time wasted yelling at refs.

[Salieri]

Andre Iguodala is launching a podcast and is one of the most business minded people in the NBA. Expect several intentional hot takes in the near future because pissing you off is like injecting steroids into your Youtube channel and algorithm strategy.

Then I hope his 20 first guests refuse to talk about anything else other than how him receiving the FMVP trophy destroyed that award's reputation.

If he likes controversy, let's see how does he like them apples.

He could have made his point, which was a reasonable one, without the need to mention Giannis and without the hyperbole.

Yeah, Rasheed would have been better today. No, Rasheed wouldn't have been a top 5 today. No, not even in his wildest dreams Rasheed would ever come close to being as good as Giannis.

But I guess reasonable takes don't generate buzz and clicks. Oh well. As I said, I really hope his FMVP becomes the main topic of discussion in his future podcast. We have seen plenty of people snapping and losing their sh*t while being interviewed or as guests. Seeing that from a host is not nearly as common, and I would appreciate it much more. And it would generate a TON of clicks, so win-win.

Reasonable statements don't exactly count for RealGM thread-starters. There's that.

I don't know about that. For every "Curry has been exposed" thread, we have several "Evolution of the NBA from the 50s to today" ones. Thing is, we are all also guilty of the "fly effect", where the smell of manure attracts us more than neutral odors. After all, not for nothing that algorythm is effective.

The odds of a reasonable OP starting 15+ page discussions are lower than a hot take, or an OP revolving around a controversial topic, I'll give you that.

I'm not denying the effectiveness of a hot take as a debate igniter, it's been proven beyond reasonable doubt. Skip Bayless and Steven A. Smith owe their careers to this principle. It just irks me that he felt the need to name drop Giannis. He could at least have chosen Curry (another player in the conversation for best in the NBA) and everyone would have an easier time thinking he at least consulted with him and asked him permission to use him as bait before making the statement. And if he can dish it, I wanna see how well he can take it.

[Balls Deep]

I think Giannis is a fraud but even I would disagree. Wallace wasn’t anything special.

[sp6r=underrated]

I think Giannis is a fraud but even I would disagree. Wallace wasn’t anything special.

Impressive post you managed to get two things wrong in two sentences.

[CharityStripe34]

I think Giannis is a fraud but even I would disagree. Wallace wasn’t anything special.

Went balls deep on that one.

[sp6r=underrated]

Andre Iguodala is launching a podcast and is one of the most business minded people in the NBA. Expect several intentional hot takes in the near future because pissing you off is like injecting steroids into your Youtube channel and algorithm strategy.

it surprised me that people still havent caught onto the bait yet. you gotta at least move the boat a little bit or change the type of food on the hook once in a while when you go fishing.

Exactly. Iggy is a high IQ player who looks to be a high IQ brand promoter.

Also, while Rasheed is not on Giannis’s level, he was a high impact two-way player. In the 1997–2014 RAPM dataset, ‘Sheed comes in at #26.

https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/97-14-rapm-2b

"Skip Bayless" the character is an idiot. Ship Bayless is a very shrewd guy who created a WWE heel persona to make $$$.