Starting a Team: Karl Malone or Reggie Miller

[parsnips33]

Klay can’t move like Reggie and doesn’t have the same kind of savvy. Reggie was Bugs Bunny out there.


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Wasnt reggie just a much better scorer and more efficient ar shooting too in the playoffs specially?

I remember reggie having kareem esque efficiencies on strong volume while klay is a lot more hit or miss (he is a less efficient player than people would expect overall as he doesnt draw many fouls)

to that point, klay's career high TS% isn't even as high as reggie's overall career TS%. and reggie was the gravity on his team while klay gets to benefit from it.

Reggie is certainly more capable offensively, but Klay obviously produces a fair share of gravity even with Steph.

[tsherkin]

Klay can’t move like Reggie and doesn’t have the same kind of savvy. Reggie was Bugs Bunny out there.


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Oh, Reggie was undeniably better. Im just saying he is a better comparison than Steph for Miller.

I just think Klay's size puts him as a fundamentally different category of player.

If you think Reggie's closer to Klay in value than Steph, I'm not sure I disagree, but in terms of how we expect these guys to play off-ball, Reggie & Steph play more similarly in part because they have more similar bodies.

As a portion of Steph's game, even the focus, sure.But Steph's onball game is very much different.

Reggie wasn't just a volume 3-point shooter, he was a rover, running all around the court looking to lose his man and get open for the 3. This isn't how the typical volume 3-point shooter played then or even now.

Agreed but again,the portion if Steph's game onball is far more developed than Reggie's, wherefore my hesitation with the comparison.

[Dooley]

Yeah the difference between Klay and Reggie in terms of output is almost entirely that Reggie was way better at drawing fouls, they're very similar otherwise.

That's also the reason for their difference in TS%, I believe.

Come on, we can't leave out that Reggie would run like crazy off picks and did have dribble penetration while Klay has played his entire career with the goat gravity player and specialized in getting wide open looks as a result. It would be much different if we had a season where Klay played without Steph in order to get an idea of what he looks like then. Reggie was the primary weapon of his team's offenses for around 13 years and from 1990-2000 his teams were top 8 in ORtg almost every year and #1 twice.

Yeah the difference between Klay and Reggie in terms of output is almost entirely that Reggie was way better at drawing fouls, they're very similar otherwise.

That's also the reason for their difference in TS%, I believe.

Come on, we can't leave out that Reggie would run like crazy off picks and did have dribble penetration while Klay has played his entire career with the goat gravity player and specialized in getting wide open looks as a result. It would be much different if we had a season where Klay played without Steph in order to get an idea of what he looks like then. Reggie was the primary weapon of his team's offenses for around 13 years and from 1990-2000 his teams were top 8 in ORtg almost every year and #1 twice.

This, reggie is just a much better player than klay

One - I said "in terms of output". On a per-possession basis, Klay and Reggie had similar numbers of field goals attempted, very similar EFG% and fairly similar ATO numbers. If you're specifically looking at their box-score contributions, the big difference between them is free throw rate.

Two - maybe I didn't make this clear but, ofc Reggie was a lot better than Klay. He was better than Klay and the fact that he was incredible at drawing fouls while Klay is relatively weak at it is one of the biggest reasons why he was better than Klay. It's not a small or unimportant thing. Drawing fouls is incredibly valuable and Reggie was very good at it.

also I'm not sure why you're talking about how much Reggie ran off picks, because movement shooting is also a huge part of Klay's game. That's a similarity between them, not a difference.

[Cavsfansince84]

One - I said "in terms of output". On a per-possession basis, Klay and Reggie had similar numbers of field goals attempted, very similar EFG% and fairly similar ATO numbers. If you're specifically looking at their box-score contributions, the big difference between them is free throw rate.

Two - maybe I didn't make this clear but, ofc Reggie was a lot better than Klay. He was better than Klay and the fact that he was incredible at drawing fouls while Klay is relatively weak at it is one of the biggest reasons why he was better than Klay. It's not a small or unimportant thing. Drawing fouls is incredibly valuable and Reggie was very good at it.

also I'm not sure why you're talking about how much Reggie ran off picks, because movement shooting is also a huge part of Klay's game. That's a similarity between them, not a difference.

I hope you don't feel like you're getting picked on or something. Debating the smallest of details is sort of what we do on here sometimes. Agreed on Klay running off picks since that's a major part of GS' system but Reggie was somewhat athletic for his position and combined it with great length. I'd give Klay the adv on defense by a decent margin. As I said, its just a major difference in being the go to guy on an offense that achieved a #1 ORtg as opposed to a secondary guy.

[Dooley]

I hope you don't feel like you're getting picked on or something. Debating the smallest of details is sort of what we do on here sometimes.

Nah, not at all, it's all good.

Agreed on Klay running off picks since that's a major part of GS' system but Reggie was somewhat athletic for his position and combined it with great length. I'd give Klay the adv on defense by a decent margin. As I said, its just a major difference in being the go to guy on an offense that achieved a #1 ORtg as opposed to a secondary guy.

Yeah Reggie is definitely way better and there's probably no way that Klay could have done what he did. And Reggie also had some other intangible advantages, with all of the mind-games stuff and physical (borderline dirty) play and getting under guys' skin. But I did find it surprising how much of a difference foul-drawing actually makes in this case - how big of an advantage it is and how big of a role it plays for guys being playoff primary scorers.

[Cavsfansince84]

Yeah Reggie is definitely way better and there's probably no way that Klay could have done what he did. And Reggie also had some other intangible advantages, with all of the mind-games stuff and physical (borderline dirty) play and getting under guys' skin. But I did find it surprising how much of a difference foul-drawing actually makes in this case - how big of an advantage it is and how big of a role it plays for guys being playoff primary scorers.

ya Reggie was a master of the kick out on his 3's to pick up easy ft's with that Kobe also used a lot.