Update: Shams says NY/Utah have began trade discussions for Donovan Mitchell part 3

[Knicksrule2k4]

Read on Twitter

[DaGawd]

More I think about this, it's not worth it. Just get rid of Randle with a pick and go from there.

They love him. It’s not happening

[8516knicks]

How quickly this is lost on peeps

When did Utah win the Championship? I missed it. when did they play in the finals? Oh, never???? Yeah, lets be like them. They wer so good they just decided to DISMANTLE their team!!!

the pistons are prob the prime small guard example, but he's referring to horny\stockton jazz

I seriously doubt Hornacheck was 6'1"

[NoDopeOnSundays]

here we go again.


Knicks fan scared of trying to get good.

Nah, this is Knick fans not wanting to pay Lamborghini prices for a Corvette.

[Richard4444]

MCbride isnt worth a first. One of the few times the knicks correctly evaluated a rookie's proper pick placing after botching soooo many draft pick failures and picking rookies much higher than they should be picked.

Mcbride was the #36 pick and he was considered a steal. It's not absurd to think he could have been traded for a #30 pick in next year's draft. It is just hard to evaluate a project when he does not get minutes in the NBA.

[3toheadmelo]

booooo

Read on Twitter

Your boy is stuck being misused and neglected

at least hes not in utah

[aggo]

here we go again.


Knicks fan scared of trying to get good.

Nah, this is Knick fans not wanting to pay Lamborghini prices for a Corvette.

Grimes isn't even a Honda Civic

[8516knicks]

Leon about to get "pantsed"

[aggo]

shoot the shot.

there is no shame in taking it. its better than sitting on our hands and watching Mitchell Robinson make 17m/year to hit 50% FTs

[8516knicks]

here we go again.


Knicks fan scared of trying to get good.

Nah, this is Knick fans not wanting to pay Lamborghini prices for a Corvette.

Or a Sunbeam.

[robillionaire]

here we go again.


Knicks fan scared of trying to get good.

Nah, this is Knick fans not wanting to pay Lamborghini prices for a Corvette.

Grimes isn't even a Honda Civic

Yeah we have been riding around in a ford pinto for 30 years I’ll take the corvette

[Clyde_Style]

What's the last team with two starting 6'1" guards who won a championship? played in a final series? Made the playoffs? NOT WORTH IT. Keep our 2023 picks and Obi and Grimes and roll the dice. We might get a Hailburton or D. Mitchell at 10 or so, we're DUE. And even if we don't DM isn't going to get us past the 2nd round.

The Utah Jazz were a pretty good team with two 6’1” guards

If they were so good, why are their FO LIQUIDATING THEM????

[Adelheid]

Just walk away, Leon. Nothing good will come of this.

Leon Rose's time as a top player representation would be useful here. I would assume he is somewhat competent in accessing player value because that used to be part of his job. Now, he is on the other side of the negotiating table and will have to lead the knicks defend against an ass-whooping in transactions

[NoDopeOnSundays]

here we go again.


Knicks fan scared of trying to get good.

Nah, this is Knick fans not wanting to pay Lamborghini prices for a Corvette.

Grimes isn't even a Honda Civic

here we go again.


Knicks fans **** on 1 of our own players before he's even been given a chance.

[Meat]

here we go again.


Knicks fan scared of trying to get good.

Nah, this is Knick fans not wanting to pay Lamborghini prices for a Corvette.

Grimes isn't even a Honda Civic

this is how they see grimes, duce and iq

[thebuzzardman]

I think Grimes, IQ, Obi, and McBride are worth one FRP each (at least a low FRP).

Consequently, it's like Jazz asking for 10 FRPs from us...

Comparing to Gobert trade

IF it's Fournier & Rose, those are useful players, in that they are decent and have some trade value.
Mostly they are there for salary, but it helps they aren't useless, they are the Beasley and Beverly of the trade


Gobert trade:
Players
Beverly and Beasley.
Jarred Vanderbilt, 2nd round (11th pick, 41st overall)
Leandro Bolmaro - 2020 / Round: 1 / Pick: 23rd overall

I don't know enough about Vanderbilt, but where drafted, this is a Sims or McBride level player - sort of
I don't know Bolmaro either; he didn't play much but the Jazz were better, let's make him IQ or Grimes level

Picks
There was a player drafted and put into the trade - Wessler. That's like a draft pick
Then there were 4 actual draft picks (2023, 2025, 2027, 2029) and ONE rights to swap a pick
Three of the picks were unprotected (2023, 2025, 2027)
The 2029 pick was top 5 protected.
That's 5 draft picks, one that was "made", 3 unprotected, one protected top of the draft

Lets apply some logic to Ainge's ask, besides the given he's a f*cking smug faced maniac.


Gobert went for, in effect:
2 useful players who can be flipped: Fournier/Rose
2 filler players of some youth: IQ or Grimes, McBride or Sims
3 unprotected picks - So, Knicks are probably going to have to come across with: Knicks 2023, Knicks 2025, Knicks 2027 unprotected
The "Wessler pick" can be accomplished with one of those picks from the Wiz or Pistons, so:Wiz 2024/5 protected
Still have to come up with a pick as good as 2029 Top 5 protected to just match the Gobert trade: That's the Bucks 2025 Top 5 protected.
* I get it's more likely that the Bucks are good in 2025 and the pick in teens, while a 2029 TWolves pick can be anything 6-30; it's more likely the TWolves pick is higher
There has to be a pick swap right to make it even with the TWolves


Let me put together a trade that is equal to Gobert in easier to read format:

Fournier/Rose/IQ or Grimes/McBride or Sims
Knicks 2023 (unprotected)/Mavs 2023 (protected)/Knicks 2025 (unprotected)/Wiz 2024-5 (protected)/Bucks 2025 (high lottery protected)/Knicks 2027 (protected)/Knicks 2026 Right to Swap

That's an equal value to the Gobert trade.
Mitchell is younger, he's better. So the Jazz are trying to ask for more.
It's easy to imagine BOTH IQ and Grimes in the Knicks offer, just based on knowing they try to meet and then exceed the TWolves Gobert deal.


The haggling points are probably as follows:
Jazz going overboard and asking for IQ, Grimes AND Obi
Knicks countering with Obi not being in the trade
Knicks want to keep Grimes or IQ - Jazz counter with asking for another pick, Knicks don't want to give 2029
Jazz say you can keep IQ and Obi, we'll need a pick swap
Knicks say we want to keep Grimes and Obi, Jazz say that's a 3rd pick swap or put Cam in the trade, whatever
And so on
So, this is where the outline can be pretty close, very near a deal, and then both sides start the gamesmanship and it takes a few days


I'm not sure how many "youth" the Jazz even want, but came up with a list of 10 assets/picks, figuring they'd really get 7 or 8 out of that and the ask for 4 youth is way to ensure getting all the picks and a couple of swaps, but only 2 of the youth. I don't know. Maybe they really want 3 of the young guys, but again, I think they see it as 10 fungible young players/picks and it's about negotiating the best combo, while the Knicks resist and try to keep the guys they really want to, if they can and might have to let one go they really didn't want to.

Ok, done with the speculation.

[Clyde_Style]

here we go again.


Knicks fan scared of trying to get good.

Nah, this is Knick fans not wanting to pay Lamborghini prices for a Corvette.

Grimes isn't even a Honda Civic

B Please

[aggo]

do the **** math
Lets rank some of the top 25 players in the NBA and whether or not they can be traded for


1/ Luka- no
2/ Jokic - no
3/ giannis -no
4/ curry- no
5/ LeBron - no
6/ durant- yes, but cant be traded here
7/ kawhi no
8/tatum- no
9/ embiid - no
10/ booker- no
11-25/
j butler- no
ja morant - no
Donovan Mitchell -yes
siakam - no
kat- no
Brandon ingraham- no
lamello - no
Anthony davis - no
trae young - no
gobert - no
Jalen brown - no
lavine - no
jrue holiday - no
beal - no
Lillard- no



now lets say for arguments sake you dont even believe Donovan Mitchell is a top 25 player, and lets rattle off some guys:

jalen brunson -no
Tyrese halliburton- no
mikal bridges - yes
bam adebayo - no
FVV- no
vucevic - yes
John collins- yes
Darius garland- no
SGA- no
sabonis- no
Desmond bane- no
Marcus smart - no
... and tons of other guys at this level- no.

im sure im missing some guys here and there in the top 25.

So realistically you have to get into the "Mikal Bridges" level of player, around rank 40. Basically guys who are #3s on winning teams and #4-5 on championship level teams.


so exactly who else can we get thats better than Donovan Mitchell?

[Spree2Houston]

here we go again.


Knicks fan scared of trying to get good.

Nah, this is Knick fans not wanting to pay Lamborghini prices for a Corvette.

Or overpaying for a house by 300k on 8% interest

[G_K_F]

shoot the shot.

there is no shame in taking it. its better than sitting on our hands and watching Mitchell Robinson make 17m/year to hit 50% FTs

You’ll still be watching that - except now you’ll have no draft picks and nothing left to trade on your roster.