Update: Shams says NY/Utah have began trade discussions for Donovan Mitchell part 3

[Capn'O]

Mitchell's good. We're just tying ourselves to a roster construction that'll be hard to win substantially with for a long time. When you have a boat of picks and young players you can be picky. Not just get a guy because his dad knows your dad and then get another guy because you have the same friendship bracelet. Look at the great teams in the league and you'll see a vision beyond that. They evaluate the pieces they have and target the pieces that will augment those original pieces while moving out the ones that don't fit.

[Enzo954]

I like Grimes but I think a lot of you are overrating him. He’s killing it in the summer league. He showed promise last year when he played but for Mitchell he’s expendable

He broke into Thibs rotation last year and is being considered to be a starter this year. Sounds promising to me.

[TrueWarrior]

This is flawed logic. We dont HAVE to get Mitchell just because hes the best player available we can get right now.

Other players will become available. Chit happens all the time, and in the meantime we can make the playoffs again as a young team with all our assets.

But hey I guess it’s true, you cant rebuild in NY after all.

what the **** do you think they've been doing?


we got KP, and then drafted Frank and Knox
we got RJ and then drafted Obi


stop bullshitting about not rebuilding.


it happened twice in the last 10 years already.

We were not rebuilding since we had so many vets. Now we finally just got rid of most of them in addition to getting a PG, and right when we can finally enjoy a fun and deep young team many of you wanna gut it for a tiny B level star.

Im good dude. I know Leon will prob give in tho, so ull get ur wish.

[evevale]

to 300 pages & beyond ...

[thebuzzardman]

I think Grimes, IQ, Obi, and McBride are worth one FRP each (at least a low FRP).

Consequently, it's like Jazz asking for 10 FRPs from us...

A shorter version to my ebook is that

Bolomero drafted around 20 in 2020 - like a first
Wessler drafted around 20 in 2022 and traded - like a first
3 unprotected firsts
1 protected top 5 1st
Right to a pick swap
A throw in 2nd round youth

Knicks trade for Mitchell starts at two salary guys who don't completely suck like Beasley and Beverly, 6 picks, and a 2nd round kind of player

So, should be a combination of 7 picks/youth, and then figure Jazz want to do a little better, and now their ask is 8 or 9
Knicks job is to keep the players they want, the year of picks they think might be strategically important (if they care), keep the trade to 7 or 8 youth picks and not into 9/10

[G_K_F]

do the **** math
Lets rank some of the top 25 players in the NBA and whether or not they can be traded for


1/ Luka- no
2/ Jokic - no
3/ giannis -no
4/ curry- no
5/ LeBron - no
6/ durant- yes, but cant be traded here
7/ kawhi no
8/tatum- no
9/ embiid - no
10/ booker- no
11-25/
j butler- no
ja morant - no
Donovan Mitchell -yes
siakam - no
kat- no
Brandon ingraham- no
lamello - no
Anthony davis - no
trae young - no
gobert - no
Jalen brown - no
lavine - no
jrue holiday - no
beal - no
Lillard- no



now lets say for arguments sake you dont even believe Donovan Mitchell is a top 25 player, and lets rattle off some guys:

jalen brunson -no
Tyrese halliburton- no
mikal bridges - yes
bam adebayo - no
FVV- no
vucevic - yes
John collins- yes
Darius garland- no
SGA- no
sabonis- no
Desmond bane- no
Marcus smart - no
... and tons of other guys at this level- no.

im sure im missing some guys here and there in the top 25.

So realistically you have to get into the "Mikal Bridges" level of player, around rank 40. Basically guys who are #3s on winning teams and #4-5 on championship level teams.


so exactly who else can we get thats better than Donovan Mitchell?

This is flawed logic. We dont HAVE to get Mitchell just because hes the best player available we can get right now.

Other players will become available. Chit happens all the time, and in the meantime we can make the playoffs again as a young team with all our assets.

But hey I guess it’s true, you cant rebuild in NY after all.

what the **** do you think they've been doing?


we got KP, and then drafted Frank and Knox
we got RJ and then drafted Obi


stop bullshitting about not rebuilding.


it happened twice in the last 10 years already.

That’s not rebuilding. Literally any other team that rebuilt in the league over the last 20 years has done things in a methodical way and it’s taken years of patience and building. We’re talking real rebuilding. Not one year of tanking, failing to get our guy and then trying to ‘win’ and getting the 8-10 pick before giving up completely and going for all veterans. We’re talking a real front office - not Dolan’s hired yes man or celebrities.

The Heat have rebuilt 3 times in 20 years and we haven’t done it once.

[Knicksrule2k4]

I like Grimes but I think a lot of you are overrating him. He’s killing it in the summer league. He showed promise last year when he played but for Mitchell he’s expendable

He broke into Thibs rotation last year and is being considered to be a starter this year. Sounds promising to me.

I didn’t say he isn’t promising but Mitchell is 25 and a proven commodity.

[stuporman]

Who is the better player? Melo just before the Knicks got him or DMitch now?

Just wondering...

[aggo]

here we go again.

Knicks fan scared of trying to get good.

Not at all. It'd be exciting to get him but he's not THAT good after all. He's exceeded expectations but we're not talking about a dominant player. Jazz had a good team with great coaching and they're breaking it up.

I think we're in a position where we can wait. What's the rush? Let him be traded to another team. Maybe we get him later.

We are ONE season away from really knowing what we have if we can ditch Randle with a couple protecte picks or something. LOTS of incoming information:

Mitch - does he perform well now that he's playing regularly and has financial peace of mind. Any offense?

Grimes - good rookie year and has a lot of upside, don't care that he's not 6-8. It's a lot about shooting in this league.

Obi and Quick had a pretty notable burst to end the season. We will know if it's up or down next year. If they are just mediocre, then that's where they'll be after next year. No more time to waste before taking the next steps and so we are about to see. I think Obi is 50-50 on a pretty big leap, starting level quality.

RJ -- same. Is he worth it, does he improve or fall back?

And all the picks can be used, no big rush.

Even McBride has potential. I'm high on Jericho. Very high.

I dont need another season of "incoming" information to know some of the players not his team.

Mitch- hasn't improved in 4 years and I dont need to look at year 5 to observe if he is going to take a big leap

Grimes- ceiling is still a rotation player who can be 3-D. 3-D guards aren't useful on bad or ok teams.

Obi and quick- still hilarious to me you need more info. the advanced stats basically say IQ is our best player because he's actually a good defender and has some ability to run an offense. Obi? please. dude is like 24 and people still need to figure out if hes going to figure it out. Maybe he will become a rotation player, but not with us-- it'll happen on his second contract because thats been his entire rate of basketball growth his entire basketball career.


anything else you need to figure out?

[G_K_F]

The trade will probably be 6 first round picks and 2 pick swaps, Fournier/Rose, Grimes, Obi and Quickley for Donovan Mitchell. The Knicks will swap out McBride for a 2nd round pick and the trade will be lauded as a victory in negotiating by fans.

[Enzo954]

I like Grimes but I think a lot of you are overrating him. He’s killing it in the summer league. He showed promise last year when he played but for Mitchell he’s expendable

He broke into Thibs rotation last year and is being considered to be a starter this year. Sounds promising to me.

I didn’t say he isn’t promising but Mitchell is 25 and a proven commodity.

If it makes or breaks the deal then do it, but if I'm Rose I'm fighting until the end.

[thebuzzardman]

What's the last team with two starting 6'1" guards who won a championship? played in a final series? Made the playoffs? NOT WORTH IT. Keep our 2023 picks and Obi and Grimes and roll the dice. We might get a Hailburton or D. Mitchell at 10 or so, we're DUE. And even if we don't DM isn't going to get us past the 2nd round.

The Utah Jazz were a pretty good team with two 6’1” guards

If they were so good, why are their FO LIQUIDATING THEM????

Because the team topped out and they decided to blow it all up under a new GM

[robillionaire]

do the **** math
Lets rank some of the top 25 players in the NBA and whether or not they can be traded for


1/ Luka- no
2/ Jokic - no
3/ giannis -no
4/ curry- no
5/ LeBron - no
6/ durant- yes, but cant be traded here
7/ kawhi no
8/tatum- no
9/ embiid - no
10/ booker- no
11-25/
j butler- no
ja morant - no
Donovan Mitchell -yes
siakam - no
kat- no
Brandon ingraham- no
lamello - no
Anthony davis - no
trae young - no
gobert - no
Jalen brown - no
lavine - no
jrue holiday - no
beal - no
Lillard- no



now lets say for arguments sake you dont even believe Donovan Mitchell is a top 25 player, and lets rattle off some guys:

jalen brunson -no
Tyrese halliburton- no
mikal bridges - yes
bam adebayo - no
FVV- no
vucevic - yes
John collins- yes
Darius garland- no
SGA- no
sabonis- no
Desmond bane- no
Marcus smart - no
... and tons of other guys at this level- no.

im sure im missing some guys here and there in the top 25.

So realistically you have to get into the "Mikal Bridges" level of player, around rank 40. Basically guys who are #3s on winning teams and #4-5 on championship level teams.


so exactly who else can we get thats better than Donovan Mitchell?

This is flawed logic. We dont HAVE to get Mitchell just because hes the best player available we can get right now.

Other players will become available. Chit happens all the time, and in the meantime we can make the playoffs again as a young team with all our assets.

But hey I guess it’s true, you cant rebuild in NY after all.

We did rebuild, we went from the worst team in the nba in 2019 to a team full of young studs in 2022 once Donovan Mitchell gets here. Rebuild complete

[KnixtapeH20]

Just make Ainge an offer of a few picks and Randle. Take it or leave it. Never bid against yourself.

I'd give this **** his 6 picks if we got rid of Randle and kept our youth who ALL OF WHICH ARE GUARANTEED to increase they value.

[Capn'O]

Who is the better player? Melo just before the Knicks got him or DMitch now?

Just wondering...

I would say Melo

[thebuzzardman]

CP live with Begley on youtube right now.

Begley proceeds to repeat everything reported by others in the last 18 hours

[Adelheid]

Just posting it here

Read on Twitter

[Orange Mamba]

CP live with Begley on youtube right now.

CP with the man who will tell us nothing new!

[KnixtapeH20]

The trade will probably be 6 first round picks and 2 pick swaps, Fournier/Rose, Grimes, Obi and Quickley for Donovan Mitchell. The Knicks will swap out McBride for a 2nd round pick and the trade will be lauded as a victory in negotiating by fans.

On what planet will any knick fan think that's a **** win?

U included every single youth cat plus 6 picks.... Tf are u ainge?

[Enzo954]

CP live with Begley on youtube right now.

Begley proceeds to repeat everything reported by others in the last 18 hours

Thanks for the obvious.