Update: Shams says NY/Utah have began trade discussions for Donovan Mitchell part 3

[G_K_F]

The trade will probably be 6 first round picks and 2 pick swaps, Fournier/Rose, Grimes, Obi and Quickley for Donovan Mitchell. The Knicks will swap out McBride for a 2nd round pick and the trade will be lauded as a victory in negotiating by fans.

On what planet will any knick fan think that's a **** win?

U included every single youth cat plus 6 picks.... Tf are u ainge?

I’m predicting the feeling once the trade happens. Everyone will get amnesia and fawn over Mitchell and forget about the price tag. Same thing happened with the Melo trade and even that wasn’t as steep as this.

[stuporman]

Who is the better player? Melo just before the Knicks got him or DMitch now?

Just wondering...

I would say Melo

Why? Just curious

[Clyde_Style]

Mitchell's good. We're just tying ourselves to a roster construction that'll be hard to win substantially with for a long time. When you have a boat of picks and young players you can be picky. Not just get a guy because his dad knows your dad and then get another guy because you have the same friendship bracelet. Look at the great teams in the league and you'll see a vision beyond that. They evaluate the pieces they have and target the pieces that will augment those original pieces while moving out the ones that don't fit.

Our asset base will only be stronger with one more season of maturation of the younger guys. We are now in an entirely different position as a franchise than two years ago. A lot of this is due to excellent drafting with our late FRPs and SRPs. Combined with our large amount of picks we should be calling the shots soon, not guys like Danny Ainge. Rose has shown flaws as POBO, but there are also good points. His patience now greatly exceeds many Knicks fans which I find both ironic and amusing.

[Spree2Houston]

Which other team could make the sort of offer we can for Mitchell? Absolutely no one. We’ll get him but it’s going to be on our terms. Leon wont get hosed in this trade. He has to protect his rep around the league.

[8516knicks]

Who is the better player? Melo just before the Knicks got him or DMitch now?

Just wondering...

I would say Melo

Why? Just curious

I'd say Mello since he had less competent help in Denver than DM in Utah.

[thebuzzardman]

Who is the better player? Melo just before the Knicks got him or DMitch now?

Just wondering...

Melo better, DMitch better for a team.

Let me explain.
Melo as a SF was still a finisher kind of player. Extraordinaire. Get him the ball, he's going to score. Not so much a creator, so while he was a strong center of gravity for an offense, having to be accounted for, doubled at times, I'm going with the player whose game has some more dribble/drive and creation - as that's harder to find, while the Melo type means you have to put a good PG with him, which Knicks really didn't do.

Melo better, Mitchell not that far away (lets stick to first 4 or 5 years in league), I'd still lean to picking Mitchell, knowing Melo is better.

[HEZI]

We are capped out with mediocre talent so it’s whatever at this point. They didn’t choose the tank and rebuild through the draft route so this is where we are at now. DMitch is the best we can do, there is nobody better available anytime soon. What are we supposed to do with what we currently have? Team is going nowhere, y’all should have known better than to applaud the Randle, Brunson and Robinson signings.

[KnixtapeH20]

The trade will probably be 6 first round picks and 2 pick swaps, Fournier/Rose, Grimes, Obi and Quickley for Donovan Mitchell. The Knicks will swap out McBride for a 2nd round pick and the trade will be lauded as a victory in negotiating by fans.

On what planet will any knick fan think that's a **** win?

U included every single youth cat plus 6 picks.... Tf are u ainge?

I’m predicting the feeling once the trade happens. Everyone will get amnesia and fawn over Mitchell and forget about the price tag. Same thing happened with the Melo trade and even that wasn’t as steep as this.

DMitch not even in the same stratosphere as Melo. Melo could flat out get u wins by himself. He could score at will. Melo was a super star. They surrounded him with Jarred Jeffries, a Tyson Chandler that won DPOY then literally fell off a cliff, just washed players left n right... Either injuries or washed

[thebuzzardman]

The trade will probably be 6 first round picks and 2 pick swaps, Fournier/Rose, Grimes, Obi and Quickley for Donovan Mitchell. The Knicks will swap out McBride for a 2nd round pick and the trade will be lauded as a victory in negotiating by fans.

While the outline is close, because that is close to the Gobert trade, there's at least one too many youth and one pick swap too many.
And Knicks should be trying really hard to keep it at one youth and retain Obi and Grimes.

Anyone who lauds the above as victory is being a knucklehead.

[NotDikembeSayNo]

Who is the better player? Melo just before the Knicks got him or DMitch now?

Just wondering...

Melo better, DMitch better for a team.

Let me explain.
Melo as a SF was still a finisher kind of player. Extraordinaire. Get him the ball, he's going to score. Not so much a creator, so while he was a strong center of gravity for an offense, having to be accounted for, doubled at times, I'm going with the player whose game has some more dribble/drive and creation - as that's harder to find, while the Melo type means you have to put a good PG with him, which Knicks really didn't do.

Melo better, Mitchell not that far away (lets stick to first 4 or 5 years in league), I'd still lean to picking Mitchell, knowing Melo is better.

It’s odd how similar the situations are. Melo a better rebounder, Mitchell a far better facilitator, both needed to take around 20 shots per game to score around 25 ppg. Only difference is Mitchell isn’t whining his way out of Utah.

[Bob Ross]

Who is the better player? Melo just before the Knicks got him or DMitch now?

Just wondering...

I would say Melo

Melo for sure

[stuporman]

Who is the better player? Melo just before the Knicks got him or DMitch now?

Just wondering...

Melo better, DMitch better for a team.

Let me explain.
Melo as a SF was still a finisher kind of player. Extraordinaire. Get him the ball, he's going to score. Not so much a creator, so while he was a strong center of gravity for an offense, having to be accounted for, doubled at times, I'm going with the player whose game has some more dribble/drive and creation - as that's harder to find, while the Melo type means you have to put a good PG with him, which Knicks really didn't do.

Melo better, Mitchell not that far away (lets stick to first 4 or 5 years in league), I'd still lean to picking Mitchell, knowing Melo is better.

DMitch is quite the scorer, too. In fact I think someone posted some stats saying he's even got a playoff scoring average that puts him as one of the top few. Not to mention he's a willing passer.

I think both of them are volume scorers that aren't too efficient but is a 6-8 wing more valuable than a 6-1 guard? Does the trends of the league also play into that as far as positional value?

Just thinking this out loud I don't have a hard opinion about it.

[G_K_F]

On what planet will any knick fan think that's a **** win?

U included every single youth cat plus 6 picks.... Tf are u ainge?

I’m predicting the feeling once the trade happens. Everyone will get amnesia and fawn over Mitchell and forget about the price tag. Same thing happened with the Melo trade and even that wasn’t as steep as this.

DMitch not even in the same stratosphere as Melo. Melo could flat out get u wins by himself. He could score at will. Melo was a super star. They surrounded him with Jarred Jeffries, a Tyson Chandler that won DPOY then literally fell off a cliff, just washed players left n right... Either injuries or washed

That’s because Melo forced a trade (to get the most money possible) that depleted all the Knicks assets instead of waiting to sign with the team as a free agent that offseason. That’s as much Melo’s fault as anything else.

This trade would do similar damage except it’s not Mitchell’s fault and there will be unreasonable expectations places on him.

[8516knicks]

Hes_On_Fire wrote:
The trade will probably be 6 first round picks and 2 pick swaps, Fournier/Rose, Grimes, Obi and Quickley for Donovan Mitchell. The Knicks will swap out McBride for a 2nd round pick and the trade will be lauded as a victory in negotiating by fans.

Utah fans.

[Clyde_Style]

Who is the better player? Melo just before the Knicks got him or DMitch now?

Just wondering...

Melo better, DMitch better for a team.

Let me explain.
Melo as a SF was still a finisher kind of player. Extraordinaire. Get him the ball, he's going to score. Not so much a creator, so while he was a strong center of gravity for an offense, having to be accounted for, doubled at times, I'm going with the player whose game has some more dribble/drive and creation - as that's harder to find, while the Melo type means you have to put a good PG with him, which Knicks really didn't do.

Melo better, Mitchell not that far away (lets stick to first 4 or 5 years in league), I'd still lean to picking Mitchell, knowing Melo is better.

Serious question: How good is Mitchell's judgment in the clutch?

I'm curious because as good as Melo was he would get tunnel vision with the game on the line and it often resulted in bad decisions. Before anybody who loves Melo jumps all over me, please calm down. It's a real question, because I legit would have held Melo in higher esteem if his judgment had not been regularly overwhelmed by his instinct for hero ball.

I get it though, the scorer is a scorer because they want to take the last shot. It's in their nature. But good judgment is still vital to being a champion, not just a hunger to be the man.

So I'm really wondering if Mitchell is the guy who chucks with the game on the line or if he'll give up the ball to a teammate who is wide open?

[F N 11]

Read on Twitter

[DowNY]

Read on Twitter

Wow, was just about to post this. Lol

[Clyde_Style]

Who is the better player? Melo just before the Knicks got him or DMitch now?

Just wondering...

Melo better, DMitch better for a team.

Let me explain.
Melo as a SF was still a finisher kind of player. Extraordinaire. Get him the ball, he's going to score. Not so much a creator, so while he was a strong center of gravity for an offense, having to be accounted for, doubled at times, I'm going with the player whose game has some more dribble/drive and creation - as that's harder to find, while the Melo type means you have to put a good PG with him, which Knicks really didn't do.

Melo better, Mitchell not that far away (lets stick to first 4 or 5 years in league), I'd still lean to picking Mitchell, knowing Melo is better.

It’s odd how similar the situations are. Melo a better rebounder, Mitchell a far better facilitator, both needed to take around 20 shots per game to score around 25 ppg. Only difference is Mitchell isn’t whining his way out of Utah.

Half of Melo's boards were him following his missed shots for a second chance shot. His rebound stats were not so much a result of him mixing it up in the paint. He was ball hawking his misses.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

do the **** math
Lets rank some of the top 25 players in the NBA and whether or not they can be traded for


1/ Luka- no
2/ Jokic - no
3/ giannis -no
4/ curry- no
5/ LeBron - no
6/ durant- yes, but cant be traded here
7/ kawhi no
8/tatum- no
9/ embiid - no
10/ booker- no
11-25/
j butler- no
ja morant - no
Donovan Mitchell -yes
siakam - no
kat- no
Brandon ingraham- no
lamello - no
Anthony davis - no
trae young - no
gobert - no
Jalen brown - no
lavine - no
jrue holiday - no
beal - no
Lillard- no



now lets say for arguments sake you dont even believe Donovan Mitchell is a top 25 player, and lets rattle off some guys:

jalen brunson -no
Tyrese halliburton- no
mikal bridges - yes
bam adebayo - no
FVV- no
vucevic - yes
John collins- yes
Darius garland- no
SGA- no
sabonis- no
Desmond bane- no
Marcus smart - no
... and tons of other guys at this level- no.

im sure im missing some guys here and there in the top 25.

So realistically you have to get into the "Mikal Bridges" level of player, around rank 40. Basically guys who are #3s on winning teams and #4-5 on championship level teams.


so exactly who else can we get thats better than Donovan Mitchell?

The best part of this list is the complete lack of self awareness -


Jokic - 41st pick
Giannis - 15th pick
Kawhi - 15th pick
Butler - 30th pick
Mitchell - 13th pick
Booker - 13th pick

60% of your top 10 are guys who weren't even top 10 picks, but you want to trade every single pick we have, for a guy they drafted 13th


Gobert - 27th pick
Pascal - 27th pick
FVV - undrafted
Bam - 14th pick
Mikal Bridges - 10th pick
SGA - 11th pick
Vucevic - 16th pick
Collins - 19th pick
Sabonis - 11th pick
Bane - 30th pick



We have 11 first rounders in the next 7-8 years, the reason why Ainge wants all these picks is because statistically speaking if you value the picks you're eventually going to hit on one of them, even if it's not a lottery pick. You're increasing your odds to find someone, and take risks with those picks. Earlier you said Grimes isn't even a Civic, we don't even know what we have with him, what if the Grizz felt the same about Bane last year and traded him in some bloated package for Beal? What if the Raptors had decided Siakam wasn't worth the time to develop, and traded him for Blake Griffin at that time in some ridiculous package that included a first from 4 years down the line, guess what? They don't end up with Scottie Barnes.


Mitchell is a good player, he was drafted 13th, he's not the type of offensive engine you build around which is why someone like Ainge, who has built a championship team and drafted Brown/Tatum wants to move him. If the asking price weren't so extreme fine, get him, but this is the type of trade that if it goes wrong will destroy your team for the next decade. This is not a LeBron/Giannis/Luka talent, and we're really not that far off from being good without him.

[thebuzzardman]

Mitchell's good. We're just tying ourselves to a roster construction that'll be hard to win substantially with for a long time. When you have a boat of picks and young players you can be picky. Not just get a guy because his dad knows your dad and then get another guy because you have the same friendship bracelet. Look at the great teams in the league and you'll see a vision beyond that. They evaluate the pieces they have and target the pieces that will augment those original pieces while moving out the ones that don't fit.

I'd say accumulate/consolidate talent, IF they leave enough flexibility to do after in at least a semi reasonable way - yes, I get DMitch won't be cheap, then build out.

Otherwise, it's trying to build with Randle/RJ/Brunson/picks in the 16-20 range, IQ, Obi, Grimes...and I'm not sh*tting on the youth, just what is really the ceiling.

Young players should have two purposes - to be the cost controlled replacement pipeline - actually good, and also be used as assets to get better players.

Still, the top end of this team is going to be a concern, I get that.