Update: Shams says NY/Utah have began trade discussions for Donovan Mitchell part 3

[KnixtapeH20]

I’m predicting the feeling once the trade happens. Everyone will get amnesia and fawn over Mitchell and forget about the price tag. Same thing happened with the Melo trade and even that wasn’t as steep as this.

DMitch not even in the same stratosphere as Melo. Melo could flat out get u wins by himself. He could score at will. Melo was a super star. They surrounded him with Jarred Jeffries, a Tyson Chandler that won DPOY then literally fell off a cliff, just washed players left n right... Either injuries or washed

That’s because Melo forced a trade (to get the most money possible) that depleted all the Knicks assets instead of waiting to sign with the team as a free agent that offseason. That’s as much Melo’s fault as anything else.

This trade would do similar damage except it’s not Mitchell’s fault and there will be unreasonable expectations places on him.

Of course Melo should of just said I'm cmn to NY as a FA after the season... He'd have Gallo, Chandler, mozgov I forget who else? STAT would of came who knows who else or what trades we could of made... Instead it was Melo lol

Just saying in terms of talent

[thebuzzardman]

CP live with Begley on youtube right now.

Begley proceeds to repeat everything reported by others in the last 18 hours

Thanks for the obvious.

It's a joke for everyone, not something directed at you, mr thin skinned.

[Clyde_Style]

Mitchell's good. We're just tying ourselves to a roster construction that'll be hard to win substantially with for a long time. When you have a boat of picks and young players you can be picky. Not just get a guy because his dad knows your dad and then get another guy because you have the same friendship bracelet. Look at the great teams in the league and you'll see a vision beyond that. They evaluate the pieces they have and target the pieces that will augment those original pieces while moving out the ones that don't fit.

I'd say accumulate/consolidate talent, IF they leave enough flexibility to do after in at least a semi reasonable way - yes, I get DMitch won't be cheap, then build out.

Otherwise, it's trying to build with Randle/RJ/Brunson/picks in the 16-20 range, IQ, Obi, Grimes...and I'm not sh*tting on the youth, just what is really the ceiling.

Young players should have two purposes - to be the cost controlled replacement pipeline - actually good, and also be used as assets to get better players.

Still, the top end of this team is going to be a concern, I get that.

Imagine if Rose had not shat the bed with the Randle extension?

Randle is the elephant in the room IMO

[Capn'O]

Who is the better player? Melo just before the Knicks got him or DMitch now?

Just wondering...

I would say Melo

Why? Just curious

Maybe it was more of his relative place in the league but he was at worst the 8th or 9th best player and Mitchell is more like 15+. Also, Melo felt like more of a guaranteed bucket every night whereas Mitchell gets hot.

[Jeffrey]

You gotta walk ... this trade won't be done until training camp. No way should Knicks give up 10 fcking assets (4 players + 6 FRPs).

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

T wolves f*cked this up for us too

Imagine being the nets and not having a market for KD cause of the wolves lol

[DowNY]

Read on Twitter

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[thebuzzardman]

We are capped out with mediocre talent so it’s whatever at this point. They didn’t choose the tank and rebuild through the draft route so this is where we are at now. DMitch is the best we can do, there is nobody better available anytime soon. What are we supposed to do with what we currently have? Team is going nowhere, y’all should have known better than to applaud the Randle, Brunson and Robinson signings.

I think once they went with Randle at Brunson is a step in the right direction, at least of a kind.
Outside the proper tanking/getting high picks. The at least 4 year commitment started than. Might as well make the best of it.
Trading picks out to 2027 or 29 for DMitch is another thing entirely, but they were in it at that point

[HerSports85]

Read on Twitter

[KnixtapeH20]

Dictate to this dick head ainge.. don't be a **** pussy and a pushover Leon.

[F N 11]

Read on Twitter

?s=20&t=3W0A-mQ7zvIfPKALNq6i_w

Knicks for clicks

[NotDikembeSayNo]

I would say Melo

Why? Just curious

Maybe it was more of his relative place in the league but he was at worst the 8th or 9th best player and Mitchell is more like 15+. Also, Melo felt like more of a guaranteed bucket every night whereas Mitchell gets hot.

They had almost identical ppg on identical fga at a nearly identical shooting percentage. I get what you mean by “felt like” because of Melo’s style (which wasn’t necessarily a good thing) but at the end of the day they are the same guy. Mitchell just fits better and facilitates.

[Clyde_Style]

I would say Melo

Why? Just curious

Maybe it was more of his relative place in the league but he was at worst the 8th or 9th best player and Mitchell is more like 15+. Also, Melo felt like more of a guaranteed bucket every night whereas Mitchell gets hot.

Maybe as a Nugget, but most years as a Knick Melo would have plenty of rough nights shooting below 35%. The only thing that kept his overall shooting percentages somewhat respectable was he would get hot and average his numbers out. Melo's PPG averages were built on volume, not efficiency.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

I love the complete shift between this thread and the first one, the hope in the first thread and naivety on who the Knicks were dealing with was cute.

"Maybe Ainge will take F0urnier, McBride and 2 firsts"


The reality of Ainge isn't as fun.

[stuporman]

Mitchell's good. We're just tying ourselves to a roster construction that'll be hard to win substantially with for a long time. When you have a boat of picks and young players you can be picky. Not just get a guy because his dad knows your dad and then get another guy because you have the same friendship bracelet. Look at the great teams in the league and you'll see a vision beyond that. They evaluate the pieces they have and target the pieces that will augment those original pieces while moving out the ones that don't fit.

I'd say accumulate/consolidate talent, IF they leave enough flexibility to do after in at least a semi reasonable way - yes, I get DMitch won't be cheap, then build out.

Otherwise, it's trying to build with Randle/RJ/Brunson/picks in the 16-20 range, IQ, Obi, Grimes...and I'm not sh*tting on the youth, just what is really the ceiling.

Young players should have two purposes - to be the cost controlled replacement pipeline - actually good, and also be used as assets to get better players.

Still, the top end of this team is going to be a concern, I get that.

Imagine if Rose had not shat the bed with the Randle extension?

Randle is the eyore in the room IMO

[KnicksGadfly]

do the **** math
Lets rank some of the top 25 players in the NBA and whether or not they can be traded for


1/ Luka- no
2/ Jokic - no
3/ giannis -no
4/ curry- no
5/ LeBron - no
6/ durant- yes, but cant be traded here
7/ kawhi no
8/tatum- no
9/ embiid - no
10/ booker- no
11-25/
j butler- no
ja morant - no
Donovan Mitchell -yes
siakam - no
kat- no
Brandon ingraham- no
lamello - no
Anthony davis - no
trae young - no
gobert - no
Jalen brown - no
lavine - no
jrue holiday - no
beal - no
Lillard- no



now lets say for arguments sake you dont even believe Donovan Mitchell is a top 25 player, and lets rattle off some guys:

jalen brunson -no
Tyrese halliburton- no
mikal bridges - yes
bam adebayo - no
FVV- no
vucevic - yes
John collins- yes
Darius garland- no
SGA- no
sabonis- no
Desmond bane- no
Marcus smart - no
... and tons of other guys at this level- no.

im sure im missing some guys here and there in the top 25.

So realistically you have to get into the "Mikal Bridges" level of player, around rank 40. Basically guys who are #3s on winning teams and #4-5 on championship level teams.


so exactly who else can we get thats better than Donovan Mitchell?

The best part of this list is the complete lack of self awareness -


Jokic - 41st pick
Giannis - 15th pick
Kawhi - 15th pick
Butler - 30th pick
Mitchell - 13th pick
Booker - 13th pick

60% of your top 10 are guys who weren't even top 10 picks, but you want to trade every single pick we have, for a guy they drafted 13th


Gobert - 27th pick
Pascal - 27th pick
FVV - undrafted
Bam - 14th pick
Mikal Bridges - 10th pick
SGA - 11th pick
Vucevic - 16th pick
Collins - 19th pick
Sabonis - 11th pick
Bane - 30th pick



We have 11 first rounders in the next 7-8 years, the reason why Ainge wants all these picks is because statistically speaking if you value the picks you're eventually going to hit on one of them, even if it's not a lottery pick. You're increasing your odds to find someone, and take risks with those picks. Earlier you said Grimes isn't even a Civic, we don't even know what we have with him, what if the Grizz felt the same about Bane last year and traded him in some bloated package for Beal? What if the Raptors had decided Siakam wasn't worth the time to develop, and traded him for Blake Griffin at that time in some ridiculous package that included a first from 4 years down the line, guess what? They don't end up with Scottie Barnes.


Mitchell is a good player, he was drafted 13th, he's not the type of offensive engine you build around which is why someone like Ainge, who has built a championship team and drafted Brown/Tatum wants to move him. If the asking price weren't so extreme fine, get him, but this is the type of trade that if it goes wrong will destroy your team for the next decade. This is not a LeBron/Giannis/Luka talent, and we're really not that far off from being good without him.

The correct answer to his question is to try and capture a top tier talent by any means necessary. So if FA or trades won’t bring one, get it through the draft.

If they actually want a talent like Ivey, then be in position to get someone like Ivey. It just so happens that the smarter FOs in this league are already getting to tank for Victor.

After you get that guy in place, then yea, feel free to tamper and do your thing.

But anyway, not gonna happen.

[HEZI]

People are underrating Mitchell at this point. He just had a season where he put up numbers as good if not better than Steph Curry who lead the Warriors to another title. Y’all talking about Ainge and the Celtics and Tatum and Brown like they just won the chip when in fact it was the 6’3” guard on the Warriors that destroyed them both. You can absolutely win with Mitchell, problem is Knicks didn’t put the right pieces in place for it. No he doesn’t need to be Luka or prime Lebron or Giannis. Jimmy Butler almost took out the Celtics on his own so get out of this mindset that the Celtics are some gold standard. Jazz didn’t build a team properly around Mitchell, Knicks could have an opportunity but changes will need to be made and pieces will need to be moved. This can’t / won’t be the group that gets it done. The problem is that the FO would believe that it is and that’s the main issue more than who Mitchell is as a player it’s the supporting cast around him that’s the issue. Once you move all the assets for Mitchell, how do you move improve the rest of the roster with what we already have? That’s the challenge

[thebuzzardman]

Regarding Melo vs DMitch

I'm also probably totally biased and it's in the direction of DMitch.
Melo was a great player. There is zero doubt.
Could be objectively superior to DMitch when you add it all up.

I'm just going to gravitate to a high quality guard or wing who has a complete game on offense, scores at 3 levels, can pass, and is fun to watch doing it. Because really, the Knicks have had very few guys like that in their history and sometimes when they did, not for long.
Bernard's career cut short, Rod Strickland traded...Michael Ray Richardson succumbs to drugs, traded, Marbury and Crawford not here for that long

Over 50 years, it's a pretty f*cking short list.

[KnixinSix]

Mitchell's good. We're just tying ourselves to a roster construction that'll be hard to win substantially with for a long time. When you have a boat of picks and young players you can be picky. Not just get a guy because his dad knows your dad and then get another guy because you have the same friendship bracelet. Look at the great teams in the league and you'll see a vision beyond that. They evaluate the pieces they have and target the pieces that will augment those original pieces while moving out the ones that don't fit.

I'd say accumulate/consolidate talent, IF they leave enough flexibility to do after in at least a semi reasonable way - yes, I get DMitch won't be cheap, then build out.

Otherwise, it's trying to build with Randle/RJ/Brunson/picks in the 16-20 range, IQ, Obi, Grimes...and I'm not sh*tting on the youth, just what is really the ceiling.

Young players should have two purposes - to be the cost controlled replacement pipeline - actually good, and also be used as assets to get better players.

Still, the top end of this team is going to be a concern, I get that.

I think we are underestimating the quality of the squad we will have with Brunson and D-Mitchell on board.

- Our entire starting lineup will be 27 or under yet guys who have 4 or more years of NBA experience. Guys entering into their young prime of their career.

- All the starters in the lineup are durable players who have not been injury prone players in their career (an underrated point)

-Brunson arrow is pointing up and already better than Conley

-Randle is a 20pt scorer who has had mutiple years of near 50% FG efficiency as a secondary scorer and is an extremely well rounded player (if he plays like 2020 and most other of his past 5 years before then)

-RJs arrow is pointing up and though a bit inefficient last year is still super young and can improve especially with a point guard like Brunson and playing more team ball.

- The Mitchell Rob/Hartenstein/Sims combo at Center is an excellent one and Hart offers a stretch 5.

- There WILL be enough of a bench left over from the trade as we are very deep and Ainge will probably relent a bit on the players going back for the picks.

- If this trade goes down expect another move or 2 by Leon Rose to further solidify the roster construction esp if the trade leaves us weak in an area.

- Both Randles contract and Mitches contract will end at the same time and Knicks can go over the cap to sign them.

- I think the final roster construction will be a STRONGER team than any squad Utah had.

[thebuzzardman]

I love the complete shift between this thread and the first one, the hope in the first thread and naivety on who the Knicks were dealing with was cute.

"Maybe Ainge will take F0urnier, McBride and 2 firsts"


The reality of Ainge isn't as fun.

Might be true for some.

I'm pretty sure I've been stating it would be 6 picks, but yes, I always had all the youth out of the trade or just one victim.
Will admit to making 3/6 of the picks those kind of sh*tty Burks/Noel picks, and have bumped it up with the Knicks 2025 and 2027, because, face it, they are going along with 2023 etc.