Charlie Montoyo Fired

[Michael Bradley]

I think it was Rosenthal who said that Charlie wasn't even one of their top choices when they hired him. It sounds like their preferred candidates turned down the Blue Jays so they were left with Montoya.

So Charlie was fine as an interim guy, but he was never their guy.

If the Jays have a decent second half, it wouldn't surprise me if Schneider becomes the permanent skipper. My sense was the organization has been grooming him for the job.

Then why did they decide to give him 1 year extension to a guy who wasn't their top choice...lol.

This has been explained over and over….

They didn’t want him to go into this season as a “lame duck”. A one year extension is not a vote of confidence. It was a clear indicator that this was a make or break year for Charlie.

Agreed that was the reasoning, but it still doesn't make it logical. If the team didn't think Charlie was worth a long-term deal, or even a modest short-term deal (2-3 years), then what was the point of extending him for even a single year? It seemed inevitable that they were going to move on, and were hedging their bets with a one year extension. If he wasn't their guy long-term, then this should have been handled before the start of the season.

The Blue Jays after 2018 were not a desirable destination. They were embarking on an obvious tanking season, after two consecutive bad seasons. Montoyo might have been one of the few guys willing to take the L's that were about to pile up and have a smile on his face while doing it. No decent candidate was going to take the job back then. But after 2021? Top manager candidates would have been lining up to interview for a role that had Vlad/Bo for 4 more years and a team that just finished with 91 wins. Granted, maybe Schneider was going to be their next manager regardless, so an extensive search wasn't going to be a thing anyway, but still a bit of a wasted opportunity.

[TOStateofMind]

Not too surprising to hear some of these quotes. Aside from his bad decisions his whole everything is going to be fine attitude surely got tired quick. Also ive still never seen a manager stick up for players less than Charlie against the umps. It was always Schneider or Walker working them. Hell even the hitting coach got tossed that one time before the game.

[Cyrus]

I think it was Rosenthal who said that Charlie wasn't even one of their top choices when they hired him. It sounds like their preferred candidates turned down the Blue Jays so they were left with Montoya.

So Charlie was fine as an interim guy, but he was never their guy.

If the Jays have a decent second half, it wouldn't surprise me if Schneider becomes the permanent skipper. My sense was the organization has been grooming him for the job.

Then why did they decide to give him 1 year extension to a guy who wasn't their top choice...lol.

Like I posted earlier, the extension made no sense. It’s good for Charlie who gets paid to the end of next season.

He wasn't their top choice, but they must have grown to like him, and gave him the extension (Probably due to him finishing top 3 in manager of the year?) Otherwise if you don't get along with him, makes choices that go against you, and wasn't your first choice, makes no sense to offer him extension.

[bluerap23]

Then why did they decide to give him 1 year extension to a guy who wasn't their top choice...lol.

Like I posted earlier, the extension made no sense. It’s good for Charlie who gets paid to the end of next season.

He wasn't their top choice, but they must have grown to like him, and gave him the extension (Probably due to him finishing top 3 in manager of the year?) Otherwise if you don't get along with him, makes choices that go against you, and wasn't your first choice, makes no sense to offer him extension.

This is why Masai is such a boss. Didn’t think twice about firing a coach that was about to win COY

[johanliebert]

He was just a cog in the machine and so will the next manager. Everything is predetermined you can literally have a.i manage games and maybe that’s where the game is heading.

I wonder if it was a leadership issue or someone happened with upper management.

[johanliebert]

I’m getting a kick out of posters harp about Charlie’s decisions. They weren’t Charlie’s decisions! Haha

[Randle McMurphy]

I’m getting a kick out of posters harp about Charlie’s decisions. They weren’t Charlie’s decisions! Haha

Ah, so it was Atkins' decision then to pinch hit Breyvic Valera for Alejandro Kirk to bunt after two walks against a lefty in the 9th inning of a tie game. Makes sense.

[Schad]

I’m getting a kick out of posters harp about Charlie’s decisions. They weren’t Charlie’s decisions! Haha

God grant me the self-belief to stand strong in even truly inane opinions that you consistently display. We changed managers and the lineup was upended 24 hours later, and you still believe this.

[Parataxis]

I’m getting a kick out of posters harp about Charlie’s decisions. They weren’t Charlie’s decisions! Haha

God grant me the self-belief to stand strong in even truly inane opinions that you consistently display. We changed managers and the lineup was upended 24 hours later, and you still believe this.

Look, upper management needs to maintain the APPEARANCE that the Manager does something, otherwise people will complain about them wasting Rogers's money, okay?

So the people upstairs are changing things up to make it LOOK like Schneid has decision making authority, even though he doesn't.

Here, let me show you my chart with strings and newspaper clippings covering the wall in my living room. It explains everything.

[polo007]

Slumping Blue Jays still have time to get back on track - TSN.ca

That said, here is what I have been able to find out from people in and around the Blue Jays’ organization about why they made the move they did.

It seems that there was a disconnect between the Jays’ front office and Montoyo, and a disconnect between the manager and his players. It doesn’t mean that Montoyo lost the clubhouse, it just means his words lost their impact.

I have never met anyone who doesn’t like Montoyo. He is a kind, sensitive gentleman. He is eternally optimistic. In fact, he is one of the nicest people I have met in baseball.

The problem is that being universally liked when you are the boss is actually the damning evidence of the disconnect that seemed to exist. Managers need to strive to be respected, not necessarily liked. It was okay for Montoyo to be upbeat and optimistic when the team was growing together and overachieving. But in a season like this, a season that held great promise where many individual players have been underachieving, there needed to be a different level of communication.

In my experience, the best managers are able to be a different manager for every player. When players are struggling, some may need a kick in the pants while others may need a pat on the back. Some may need to be yelled at, while others need a hug. A good manager has to not only know what his players need, but he needs to be able to give it to them.

This is where Montoyo came up a bit short in the opinion of those in the know.

He isn’t a scapegoat for the team’s struggles, nor was he the cause of it. But in the minds of the decision makers, he wasn’t the one who could help the team overcome it either. The Jays (47-43) have won just three of their last 13 games.

Atkins didn’t want to wait any longer and have the club fall out of the American League playoff race before making the change.

Schneider is known to be a fiery competitor. He has been a favourite of this front office for a while. He was a successful minor-league manager and is an excellent communicator. He is a good baseball man.

The native of Princeton, N.J., will get plenty of guidance from the Jays’ front office on what the analytics say and where adjustments need to be made. It will be his job as interim skipper to have the hard conversation with players.

I heard from several sources that “Charlie didn’t like confrontation.” Who does? But as a manager, you must be able to confront lack of effort or commitment. You must address poor preparation and execution. Sometimes players need to be challenged to earn their playing time or position in the batting order. There has to be clear expectations and then accountability to fulfill them. If someone comes up short in an area, they need to be called out for it.

[polo007]

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[GreatWhiteStiff]

I’m getting a kick out of posters harp about Charlie’s decisions. They weren’t Charlie’s decisions! Haha

God grant me the self-belief to stand strong in even truly inane opinions that you consistently display. We changed managers and the lineup was upended 24 hours later, and you still believe this.

Look, upper management needs to maintain the APPEARANCE that the Manager does something, otherwise people will complain about them wasting Rogers's money, okay?

So the people upstairs are changing things up to make it LOOK like Schneid has decision making authority, even though he doesn't.

Here, let me show you my chart with strings and newspaper clippings covering the wall in my living room. It explains everything.

Doesn't montoya ask or force his players to do stupid -EV bunts though? That's not coming from the top. I'm kinda ignorant and haven't been following baseball much this year, and some of my takes are manufactured/taken from listening to sports talk radio.

[Raps in 4]

It's nice to see the Jays playing inspired baseball again. Even if nothing changes tactically, sometimes just having a new voice helps.