Update: Shams says NY/Utah have began trade discussions for Donovan Mitchell part 3

[KnixtapeH20]

Trading future first round picks that turned into Lamarcus Aldridge, Joakim Noah, and Gordon Hayward.

you put those guys together in their prime and you aint getting out of the 2nd round either

I'd still take them over Eddy Curry and Stephon Marbury.

That era pretty much birthed LOLKnicks.

Please don't mention a bum like Eddie curry in the same sentence as Steph... He was singlehandedly winning games for us by himself when he first got here. He was hitting shots from half court before Steph curry.

Wanna talk about melo having no help... Marbury literally had no one. The first year he had Houston but he missed a little less than half the season

[god shammgod]

It’ll be a tough climb for the Knicks whether they do or don’t make the trade. They are probably set up better to make the deal, consolidate a bunch of assets and get a legit top 20, #1 option type player. They have been building for that moment. I would have rather seen them rebuild thru the draft, but that ship has sailed and they have been ignoring that route for 20+ years so it isn’t happening

This is it...the rebuilding through the draft window is over...they doubled down on going this route by signing brunson who makes it even less likely we can get into the top 10 to get a difference maker.

Get Mitchell and then maybe you are a player down the road for a FA if you prove you are one piece away.

What does rebuilding through the draft even mean?

Our roster has 7 players that we drafted on it. All the picks we have was from draft maneuvering.

The draft was absolutely the vehicle utilized most to reshape the roster and build out our asset base, even if we didn't tank.

it means drafting your own stars. you know what he's saying.

and since you're secretly working for the knick front office now, is this deal happening ? and don't tell me you're not, you defend them way too vehemently for me to believe otherwise.

p.s. if he doesn't pull this off i want you and leon fired

[Madskillzz024]

I doubt IQ is moved based on his friendship with Mitchell. I imagine that was a selling point

As for Obi, it would be better for his career if he is elsewhere and not stuck behind Randle

[sol537]

I don't care what anyone says... Grimes, McBride, Obi, and RJ were very solid draft picks. Each one of them has a place and has at least some potential for further improvement, making them positive trade assets, which is a major when since more than half of draft picks don't amount to much.

[Deeeez Knicks]

It’ll be a tough climb for the Knicks whether they do or don’t make the trade. They are probably set up better to make the deal, consolidate a bunch of assets and get a legit top 20, #1 option type player. They have been building for that moment. I would have rather seen them rebuild thru the draft, but that ship has sailed and they have been ignoring that route for 20+ years so it isn’t happening

The Knicks did rebuild through the draft. That's why we're in position to make this trade.

It was more of a win immediately plan with a lot in mediocre veteran players or free agents. They only bottomed out for 1 year which wasn’t enough. They did do a better job of drafting and getting some future picks, but the purpose was to make a move for a star.

[El Poochio]

Good that we walked away. Don't let Ainge get everything. He needs us. He can move his demands down. If we rejoin the talks and make the move.

First off: I still think Mitch is a bad fit and we'll have a hard time building a contender around him because we'll:

1. Be capped out
2. With few movable assets
3. And by that same token have limited shots in the draft

So the three ways of building a team - draft, trade, and free agency will be limited. It will limit us to exceptions signings, a pick every other year, and lateral moves - player for player roughly - to improve fit. With some creative moves around the fringes we can start to restock the asset pool for sweeteners in trades or potential draft steals.



That said, one difference between now and the Melo trade is that we're relatively asset rich now. We've got a number of players on the upside of their career and a large cadre of picks to move. Internal development could still be possible after this trade and we'll only have a few positions to fill. Brass needs to figure out what capital we'll need remaining to build the team out to make sure those distant picks - and there will be those - don't bite us in the ass the way they did the Nets. Don't immediately make the next trade. Restock the pool with late firsts and decent 2nds as possible and climb the ladder again. Maybe somebody wants McBride or Sims. Those kind of pieces can go for future capital.

Donnie Walsh has set us up well too before impatience squandered it all

[Moose]

4 picks, 2 of our young players not names RJ, Fournier, and rose

That seems reasonable

[mpharris36]

Knicks don't want to give up 3 picks why would they give up 5 picks? Jazz can get picks for Conley anytime and doesn't want a washed up vet Westbrook if they take RJ and couple picks for NY is there? Don't see the jazz waiving and player making 46 million a year or chance winning games for teen pick next year. See Lakers loving the deal and NY.

Knicks will absolutely give up 5 picks...they don't want to give up 6 picks with Grimes/Obi/IQ. If Obi and IQ aren't in the deal the knicks will give 5 picks.

And why wouldn't the jazz want to move off of Conley's 20+ million for nothing next year? Conley doesn't have a huge market at that price point...and no they can't move conley for picks anytime they wanted. Who is banging down the door for a soon to be 35 year old PG that makes over 20 MM?

They would buy out westbrook. AInge wants picks and he wants to tank and then he moves extra money off the books next year so he books are totally clean. This is exactly what Ainge wants...expiring contracts, a ton of future unprotected picks, and he gets Grimes with Shams stated was a player they are interest in.

I think Lakers and couple other teams have talked about Conley this year but I believe Jazz owner and Conley are really close and want to keep him here. Conley most likely have a job with the Jazz after playing ball. I'd take young players and picks but nothing to do with Westbrook. Surprise when I read Leon backed out with only 3 picks on the table. If that's true a Mitchell knicks deal will never happen.

I think you mixing up your reports Leon reportedly backed out of the following

Grimes
IQ
Obi
McBride
+6 1st rounders

That is what shams and your reporter tony said after talks Tuesday.

The Mitchell Robinson and 3 1st rounders is from our guy begley...he is not a trust worthy source.

Also Conley may be close but you think he wants to spend his last couple of years on a tanking team?

[nedleeds]

Look at the side of anti RJ, who are consistently wrong about most things.

* right about Randle and the fake season - He can recover
* right about RJ and his fake not even league average season He is too young. He will get better
* right about RJ and his agent statwhoring to try to get 20 by putting the chuck meter to 10 then sitting out games It does not matter
* right about not stretching Noah for no reason We needed to waive him. I don't know if we can stretch some time after have waived him
* right about Cam trade, and that he'd never play here and that it was a waste of a 1st rounder He might stick with the team and get minutes to prove his value
* right about Thibs being an orc It does not matter
* right about Leon Rose being one of the worst 3 GMs in the league, 5 negative value contracts in one off season We got rid of 3 of them. Evan is the next.
* right about not extending Randle for no reason We should not have extended him. But he can improve
* right about re-signing Mitch
* right about Sam Rose just being a fat young Leon still piping money from Dolan into CAA

* wrong about them snap extending RJ for the max (starphucking with mitchell the likely cause)
* wrong about them making the pick this year (didn't see just punting on a draft when your roster doesn't have a top 50 player on it)

Stretching is waiving and dividing the cap hit over 2 x remaining years + 1. Learn NBA cap kindergarten edition and then come back to give your input.

[robillionaire]

It turned out fine because of how good he became.

Odds are extremely slim that any of our young guys will be as good as Jaylen Brown

It didn’t turn out fine because they didn’t win a championship. Last year was a fluke season for them and they lost. That’s the logic we would apply to our team so why not apply it to Boston? They aren’t that good and they aren’t winning a championship it’s a treadmill team and they should blow it up to tank

No, it turned out fine, they're a championship contender and have been a staple in the Eastern conference finals since 2018. The funny part is Mitchell is the same age as Brown and older than Tatum, you all will be saying "Well, maybe we can get____ in free agecy" after this trade because you all know it wont be enough, the same old song.

Well it seems this is shifting of the goalposts. Not by you but the sentiment in general. Boston has a borderline contender with a flukey run to the finals and that’s “fine” but with Donovan, he sucks because he didn’t make it through the murders row of the west because Gobert got exposed and if the Knicks build a contender it’s meaningless unless we win the championship every year. If the Donovan Knicks lose in the ECF everyone would crap on us and say exactly what I said above. Treadmill, blow it up, Donovan ain’t good enough, etc. Tatum looked like playoff Randle in the finals

[Clyde_Style]

Last thought on Randle. The man does not GAF about winning. He would pout during our victories if something went against his own personal interests during a game. Conversely, he’d often be all smiles and chirpy after a loss if he had big numbers. The guy is an effing loser.

If you want to bring in Mitchell, you better have a plan for getting Randle off this squad or chit is going to get ugly here. Randle is a time bomb. He is incapable of sharing the spotlight. When RJ took over the leadership role Randle went into a funk he never recovered from. He will loathe the attention Mitchell gets. Ignore at your own peril

I don't disagree, but it's going to have to work and that's that. If Randle pulls his same crap he pulls the same crap. That doesn't mean you don't go get Mitchell.

Plus (for some damn reason), this FO LOVES Randle. I don't know why, but they do. Thibs let him get away with murder last year with zero consequences for his horrendous attitude.

The good thing is now we'd have two players that are far better than Randle on the team. If he decides to be a complete ass again, we'll have two other leaders on the team to try to put him in his place.

Now that I think about it, maybe we should save one of these 1sts so we can unload Randle.

Geez, is that how things actually work? I didn’t know

Seriously though, I don’t believe this FO loves Randle. I don’t know how anyone can believe that. Their relationship was damaged last season by Randle’s behavior and this is a business so nobody is walking about the halls of power with moon pies for eyes shooting out little pink hearts in Randle’s direction

I see no reason to think this FO feels obligated to Randle after the crap he pulled. If they can cut a deal for him they will. If not, they’ll have to figure out how to manage him. Worst case scenario is he plays out his contract in a diminished capacity and he’ll have to suck it up or be sent home

[Jay10]

The Jazz wanted the Knicks to send six first-round picks, in addition to Quentin Grimes, Immanuel Quickley and Obi Toppin.

If I was Leon Rose, if they remove Obi that’s triggerapullable.

Cuz if Spida comes, Grimes and IQ ain’t really gonna be able to play anyway.

I would be ecstatic to keep RJ, Cam, and Obi.

Grimes will when Thibodeau staggers Brunson at PG and Mitchell at PG, it would allow him to play SG to hide them on the defensive end.

[Capn'O]

Good that we walked away. Don't let Ainge get everything. He needs us. He can move his demands down. If we rejoin the talks and make the move.

First off: I still think Mitch is a bad fit and we'll have a hard time building a contender around him because we'll:

1. Be capped out
2. With few movable assets
3. And by that same token have limited shots in the draft

So the three ways of building a team - draft, trade, and free agency will be limited. It will limit us to exceptions signings, a pick every other year, and lateral moves - player for player roughly - to improve fit. With some creative moves around the fringes we can start to restock the asset pool for sweeteners in trades or potential draft steals.



That said, one difference between now and the Melo trade is that we're relatively asset rich now. We've got a number of players on the upside of their career and a large cadre of picks to move. Internal development could still be possible after this trade and we'll only have a few positions to fill. Brass needs to figure out what capital we'll need remaining to build the team out to make sure those distant picks - and there will be those - don't bite us in the ass the way they did the Nets. Don't immediately make the next trade. Restock the pool with late firsts and decent 2nds as possible and climb the ladder again. Maybe somebody wants McBride or Sims. Those kind of pieces can go for future capital.

Donnie Walsh has set us up well too before impatience squandered it all

He did but we we're quite there.

I think we're in a place for a move now. I would have waited for a different one though.

[Chanel Bomber]

Good that we walked away. Don't let Ainge get everything. He needs us. He can move his demands down. If we rejoin the talks and make the move.

First off: I still think Mitch is a bad fit and we'll have a hard time building a contender around him because we'll:

1. Be capped out
2. With few movable assets
3. And by that same token have limited shots in the draft

So the three ways of building a team - draft, trade, and free agency will be limited. It will limit us to exceptions signings, a pick every other year, and lateral moves - player for player roughly - to improve fit. With some creative moves around the fringes we can start to restock the asset pool for sweeteners in trades or potential draft steals.



That said, one difference between now and the Melo trade is that we're relatively asset rich now. We've got a number of players on the upside of their career and a large cadre of picks to move. Internal development could still be possible after this trade and we'll only have a few positions to fill. Brass needs to figure out what capital we'll need remaining to build the team out to make sure those distant picks - and there will be those - don't bite us in the ass the way they did the Nets. Don't immediately make the next trade. Restock the pool with late firsts and decent 2nds as possible and climb the ladder again. Maybe somebody wants McBride or Sims. Those kind of pieces can go for future capital.

Donnie Walsh has set us up well too before impatience squandered it all

No amount of patience would've turned Stoudemire, Gallinari, Chandler, Fields and Mozgov into a good team.

Those who actually stayed in the league spent more time in the infirmary, and never played at an All-Star level post-injury.

If not for the Melo deal, we would've ended up with Deron Williams. Read the stories. It would've been a disaster here.

[GONYK]

This is it...the rebuilding through the draft window is over...they doubled down on going this route by signing brunson who makes it even less likely we can get into the top 10 to get a difference maker.

Get Mitchell and then maybe you are a player down the road for a FA if you prove you are one piece away.

What does rebuilding through the draft even mean?

Our roster has 7 players that we drafted on it. All the picks we have was from draft maneuvering.

The draft was absolutely the vehicle utilized most to reshape the roster and build out our asset base, even if we didn't tank.

it means drafting your own stars. you know what he's saying.

and since you're secretly working for the knick front office now, is this deal happening ? and don't tell me you're not, you defend them way too vehemently for me to believe otherwise.

p.s. if he doesn't pull this off i want you and leon fired

Yes, because drafting stars is so easy

The one player we tanked for you won't stop sh*tting on, so lets do that for 10 years straight, while simultaneously only playing the young guys, but never actually hoping they get better so they don't disrupt the tank

PS: I kept Mitch around for you, so stop whining

[Clyde_Style]

Facts, Randle was the WORST Knick teammate I have ever seen in my 30+ years of Knicks fandom. He's garbage. And now imagine his behavior to becoming possibly the FOURTH option behind Mitchell, RJ and Brunson. This is a recipe for disaster. Man couldn't even handle the occasional good Founier game.

But what should we do? Allow the piece of crap Randle to dictate what moves we make? We're stuck with him either way so we might as well improve the team around him.

Not around randle, on top of him, he gets pushed own and his voice becomes less relevant. Randle is gonna adjust or get shipped out, the fo wont give a **** about him when the backcourt is averaging 45-50 pts and selling jerseys

Exactly. Randle is in no position of power. He still has at least one more substantial contract to play for so at some point he will either pull his head out of his azz and become a better teammate or he will continue to sabotage his career and nobody will GAF

[ForeverRDjazz]

It’ll be a tough climb for the Knicks whether they do or don’t make the trade. They are probably set up better to make the deal, consolidate a bunch of assets and get a legit top 20, #1 option type player. They have been building for that moment. I would have rather seen them rebuild thru the draft, but that ship has sailed and they have been ignoring that route for 20+ years so it isn’t happening

This is it...the rebuilding through the draft window is over...they doubled down on going this route by signing brunson who makes it even less likely we can get into the top 10 to get a difference maker.

Get Mitchell and then maybe you are a player down the road for a FA if you prove you are one piece away.

Bronson is a good player but that signing really shocked me also. RJ Mitchell duel looks better than Bronson RJ. Not sure Bronson RJ Mitchell is a road I'd go down. Think your front office said they aren't trading for Mitchell when they signed Bronson. Danny has to be looking at other teams now if he's thinking about doing a full rebuild? Front office you have now, I'd fire.

[nedleeds]

4 picks, 2 of our young players not names RJ, Fournier, and rose

That seems reasonable

Some of these picks are a little fake though given the protections. If you assume we'll be the 7th or so seed with Mitchell the Knicks picks are mediocre as well.

Trader Danny might be looking for like 2027 when New York will be a wasteland.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

You’ll still be watching that - except now you’ll have no draft picks and nothing left to trade on your roster.

It's just so fascinating to me that fans of this team cannot just look at teams across the league and see that the "Trade everything for XYZ" **** doesn't really work.

It works more times than it doesn't. Our picks in 13-16 range aren't worth a damn thing. And that's where we'll be for the next 3 years if we don't add anyone else.

No, it doesn't work more times


https://frontofficesports.com/the-nba-superteam-model-is-not-working/


https://nba.nbcsports.com/2022/02/24/home-grown-contenders-not-assembled-super-teams-inspire-nbas-next-generation/



Fitting that the Knicks and the fans alike are stuck on the old method, just as teams are moving away it. You guys act like there's some super heated market for Mitchell too, smarter teams have become weary of trading tons of assets for players because there's more than enough evidence right now to say "stop being thirsty".

[ohboy109]

It didn’t turn out fine because they didn’t win a championship. Last year was a fluke season for them and they lost. That’s the logic we would apply to our team so why not apply it to Boston? They aren’t that good and they aren’t winning a championship it’s a treadmill team and they should blow it up to tank

No, it turned out fine, they're a championship contender and have been a staple in the Eastern conference finals since 2018. The funny part is Mitchell is the same age as Brown and older than Tatum, you all will be saying "Well, maybe we can get____ in free agecy" after this trade because you all know it wont be enough, the same old song.

Well it seems this is shifting of the goalposts. Not by you but the sentiment in general. Boston has a borderline contender with a flukey run to the finals and that’s “fine” but with Donovan, he sucks because he didn’t make it through the murders row of the west because Gobert got exposed and if the Knicks build a contender it’s meaningless unless we win the championship every year. If the Donovan Knicks lose in the ECF everyone would crap on us and say exactly what I said above. Treadmill, blow it up, Donovan ain’t good enough, etc. Tatum looked like playoff Randle in the finals

Don't forget Brunson torched him last year