JI Here we go again

[swarlesbarkley]

There will be blue-pill believers in Isaac until he finally walks away from the game, but there is very little precedent for a player being this injury-prone and managing to salvage his career. With one exception -- his second season -- Isaac has *never* been able to stay on the court. The writing was on the wall in his rookie season when he took months to recover from sprained ankles.

The fact that he suffered a surgical hamstring injury this year before he had even returned to full-court work is an enormous red flag. We have reached the point where his body is saying "no" every time he approaches full speed, even when he goes well beyond normal recovery time to start ramping up. The other day Weltman said JI was looking to get back to where he was before the hamstring injury! That is not good. He was only at the stage of doing half-court iso work when it happened, and that was around 19 months post-ACL tear.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's not ready by training camp, and if/when he does come back he will be on minutes restrictions. In a few weeks we will be at the 2-year mark since he last played in a game. If it's not too late to take the red pill, go ahead and take it.

Yep. Every injury means that JI has to work to get back to skill level he was at pre-injury. He isn't adding anything to his game with all these injuries - just hoping to get back to where he was prior to the injury.

Same deal as Kristaps - dude was looking like a superstar unicorn in NY - then he hit a bunch of tall skinny guy injuries and has never been able to build on his hot start. At best, he's the same guy he was 5 years ago but he only plays like 50% of the games now. Feels like it'll be the same story with JI.

[Skybox]

There will be blue-pill believers in Isaac until he finally walks away from the game, but there is very little precedent for a player being this injury-prone and managing to salvage his career. With one exception -- his second season -- Isaac has *never* been able to stay on the court. The writing was on the wall in his rookie season when he took months to recover from sprained ankles.

The fact that he suffered a surgical hamstring injury this year before he had even returned to full-court work is an enormous red flag. We have reached the point where his body is saying "no" every time he approaches full speed, even when he goes well beyond normal recovery time to start ramping up. The other day Weltman said JI was looking to get back to where he was before the hamstring injury! That is not good. He was only at the stage of doing half-court iso work when it happened, and that was around 19 months post-ACL tear.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's not ready by training camp, and if/when he does come back he will be on minutes restrictions. In a few weeks we will be at the 2-year mark since he last played in a game. If it's not too late to take the red pill, go ahead and take it.

thank you Doctor internet...you may end up guessing right, but hamstring and other "unconnected" injuries happen and may often be related in causation, but not necessarily red flags for chronic issues...especially hamstrings - which happen often and, frustratingly, randomly.

[Skybox]

Every NBA player is subject to all kinds of injuries and Bball is TOUGH on the lower joints...However, proper rehab, procedures and active recovery is really effective these days. The only stuff that is really terrifying are the chronic foot problems some of the real big guys get into...those are often really tough to beat even over years.

Isaac may or may not recover fully...but nothing in his injuries is a lock to be fatal to his NBA career at this point and at his age, assuming he's a willing patient and hard rehab worker who doesn't do stupid things (like MJ was known for but got lucky).

[swarlesbarkley]

Every NBA player is subject to all kinds of injuries and Bball is TOUGH on the lower joints...However, proper rehab, procedures and active recovery is really effective these days. The only stuff that is really terrifying are the chronic foot problems some of the real big guys get into...those are often really tough to beat even over years.

Isaac may or may not recover fully...but nothing in his injuries is a lock to be fatal to his NBA career at this point and at his age, assuming he's a willing patient and hard rehab worker who doesn't do stupid things (like MJ was known for but got lucky).

Can you provide a list of players who've missed 65% of games due to injury their first 5 seasons and have come back to be superstars, all stars, or even role players? I'm genuinely curious what we're looking at here. Embiid seems to be used as a positive example but he missed his first two years and half of his third and has played 75% of games since 2017 (some missed games being load management) so that seems very different.

[Skybox]

Every NBA player is subject to all kinds of injuries and Bball is TOUGH on the lower joints...However, proper rehab, procedures and active recovery is really effective these days. The only stuff that is really terrifying are the chronic foot problems some of the real big guys get into...those are often really tough to beat even over years.

Isaac may or may not recover fully...but nothing in his injuries is a lock to be fatal to his NBA career at this point and at his age, assuming he's a willing patient and hard rehab worker who doesn't do stupid things (like MJ was known for but got lucky).

Can you provide a list of players who've missed 65% of games due to injury their first 5 seasons and have come back to be superstars, all stars, or even role players? I'm genuinely curious what we're looking at here. Embiid seems to be used as a positive example but he missed his first two years and half of his third and has played 75% of games since 2017 (some missed games being load management) so that seems very different.

Yeah...I'll get right on that....65%? Got it

I get your point and I'm certainly concerned too...but I don't think it's as easy to label guys as quickly as some here do

[pepe1991]

There will be blue-pill believers in Isaac until he finally walks away from the game, but there is very little precedent for a player being this injury-prone and managing to salvage his career. With one exception -- his second season -- Isaac has *never* been able to stay on the court. The writing was on the wall in his rookie season when he took months to recover from sprained ankles.

The fact that he suffered a surgical hamstring injury this year before he had even returned to full-court work is an enormous red flag. We have reached the point where his body is saying "no" every time he approaches full speed, even when he goes well beyond normal recovery time to start ramping up. The other day Weltman said JI was looking to get back to where he was before the hamstring injury! That is not good. He was only at the stage of doing half-court iso work when it happened, and that was around 19 months post-ACL tear.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's not ready by training camp, and if/when he does come back he will be on minutes restrictions. In a few weeks we will be at the 2-year mark since he last played in a game. If it's not too late to take the red pill, go ahead and take it.

thank you Doctor internet...you may end up guessing right, but hamstring and other "unconnected" injuries happen and may often be related in causation, but not necessarily red flags for chronic issues...especially hamstrings - which happen often and, frustratingly, randomly.

If you have spare time read Brasilian interview about Pato's injuries.
Guy had 8 different muscle injuries in 2 years. Visited doctros from Italy to US; nobody could figure what's wrong.

Than doctor in Brasil figured that his hamstring is too strong compared to whatever other muscle was, and inbalance of them would cause his hamstring to overwork itself and cause other injuries. But by the time they figured out, 4 years passed by and his career was , at least top tear career, over.

Isaac's hyperxstended knee ( corner ) , acl tear and hamstring injury are all co-related. And if i could guess, root of a problem goes back to his nasty, nasty, nasty highschool ( probably earlier) habbit to land every single jump on left leg. Watch high college or highschool tape, especially in dunks or high impact moves. Left leg landed every single jump. Repetitive movment where body is overusing one part is execlly how injuries hpapen ( Def Swami could probably share his professioanal insight about topic )

[jezzerinho]

Go and watch that video of all of JI's blocks in 19/20. His footwork is absolutely hyperactive. Crazy speed and degree of repositioning, turning, twisting, flexing. Add in the leaping and it's not hard to see how a guy who plays that way is risking the physical limits of his joints.

[basketballRob]

Every NBA player is subject to all kinds of injuries and Bball is TOUGH on the lower joints...However, proper rehab, procedures and active recovery is really effective these days. The only stuff that is really terrifying are the chronic foot problems some of the real big guys get into...those are often really tough to beat even over years.

Isaac may or may not recover fully...but nothing in his injuries is a lock to be fatal to his NBA career at this point and at his age, assuming he's a willing patient and hard rehab worker who doesn't do stupid things (like MJ was known for but got lucky).

Can you provide a list of players who've missed 65% of games due to injury their first 5 seasons and have come back to be superstars, all stars, or even role players? I'm genuinely curious what we're looking at here. Embiid seems to be used as a positive example but he missed his first two years and half of his third and has played 75% of games since 2017 (some missed games being load management) so that seems very different.

Not really. I think they've exaggerated some of Isaac's recovery time from injuries because we've been tanking so many years.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[Audi]

This is all kind of a useless subject of debate because regardless of where you fall on JI, sitting on his contract and waiting to see makes the most sense. If he is in fact healthy, we need him to return to the court to contribute to making this team better. If he is in fact an injury prone liability, we need him to return to the court to so we can get something better than rock bottom value while making him some other team's problem. If his injuries are career ending and he can't step on the court, his contract limits that full impact. It doesn't matter if he's a red pill or a blue pill, we shouldn't be swallowing yet either way.

[Audi]

Isaac's hyperxstended knee ( corner ) , acl tear and hamstring injury are all co-related. And if i could guess, root of a problem goes back to his nasty, nasty, nasty highschool ( probably earlier) habbit to land every single jump on left leg. Watch high college or highschool tape, especially in dunks or high impact moves. Left leg landed every single jump. Repetitive movment where body is overusing one part is execlly how injuries hpapen ( Def Swami could probably share his professioanal insight about topic )

Totally agree. In fact, I think we were talking about that a few years back in a game thread. He came down on that one leg literally any time he elevated. Even on threes he was coming down on one leg and kicking the other out. It looked like an injury in the making.

[swarlesbarkley]

Every NBA player is subject to all kinds of injuries and Bball is TOUGH on the lower joints...However, proper rehab, procedures and active recovery is really effective these days. The only stuff that is really terrifying are the chronic foot problems some of the real big guys get into...those are often really tough to beat even over years.

Isaac may or may not recover fully...but nothing in his injuries is a lock to be fatal to his NBA career at this point and at his age, assuming he's a willing patient and hard rehab worker who doesn't do stupid things (like MJ was known for but got lucky).

Can you provide a list of players who've missed 65% of games due to injury their first 5 seasons and have come back to be superstars, all stars, or even role players? I'm genuinely curious what we're looking at here. Embiid seems to be used as a positive example but he missed his first two years and half of his third and has played 75% of games since 2017 (some missed games being load management) so that seems very different.

Not really. I think they've exaggerated some of Isaac's recovery time from injuries because we've been tanking so many years.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

I honestly thought they were exaggerating it last year but then he injured his other leg. If he wasn't still working on his rehab, he probably wouldn't have injured his other leg. The rest of his injury duration periods were not tank related since we weren't tanking.

[j-ragg]

Every NBA player is subject to all kinds of injuries and Bball is TOUGH on the lower joints...However, proper rehab, procedures and active recovery is really effective these days. The only stuff that is really terrifying are the chronic foot problems some of the real big guys get into...those are often really tough to beat even over years.

Isaac may or may not recover fully...but nothing in his injuries is a lock to be fatal to his NBA career at this point and at his age, assuming he's a willing patient and hard rehab worker who doesn't do stupid things (like MJ was known for but got lucky).

Can you provide a list of players who've missed 65% of games due to injury their first 5 seasons and have come back to be superstars, all stars, or even role players? I'm genuinely curious what we're looking at here. Embiid seems to be used as a positive example but he missed his first two years and half of his third and has played 75% of games since 2017 (some missed games being load management) so that seems very different.

Not really. I think they've exaggerated some of Isaac's recovery time from injuries because we've been tanking so many years.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Wouldn’t that be directly taking money out of Isaac’s pocket? I thought we paid him like 10 million less or something due to games missed clauses in his contract?

[swarlesbarkley]

Every NBA player is subject to all kinds of injuries and Bball is TOUGH on the lower joints...However, proper rehab, procedures and active recovery is really effective these days. The only stuff that is really terrifying are the chronic foot problems some of the real big guys get into...those are often really tough to beat even over years.

Isaac may or may not recover fully...but nothing in his injuries is a lock to be fatal to his NBA career at this point and at his age, assuming he's a willing patient and hard rehab worker who doesn't do stupid things (like MJ was known for but got lucky).

Can you provide a list of players who've missed 65% of games due to injury their first 5 seasons and have come back to be superstars, all stars, or even role players? I'm genuinely curious what we're looking at here. Embiid seems to be used as a positive example but he missed his first two years and half of his third and has played 75% of games since 2017 (some missed games being load management) so that seems very different.

Yeah...I'll get right on that....65%? Got it

I get your point and I'm certainly concerned too...but I don't think it's as easy to label guys as quickly as some here do

Technically, JI has missed 67% of available games since being drafted - so 65% is a bit generous lol.

[Skybox]

There will be blue-pill believers in Isaac until he finally walks away from the game, but there is very little precedent for a player being this injury-prone and managing to salvage his career. With one exception -- his second season -- Isaac has *never* been able to stay on the court. The writing was on the wall in his rookie season when he took months to recover from sprained ankles.

The fact that he suffered a surgical hamstring injury this year before he had even returned to full-court work is an enormous red flag. We have reached the point where his body is saying "no" every time he approaches full speed, even when he goes well beyond normal recovery time to start ramping up. The other day Weltman said JI was looking to get back to where he was before the hamstring injury! That is not good. He was only at the stage of doing half-court iso work when it happened, and that was around 19 months post-ACL tear.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's not ready by training camp, and if/when he does come back he will be on minutes restrictions. In a few weeks we will be at the 2-year mark since he last played in a game. If it's not too late to take the red pill, go ahead and take it.

thank you Doctor internet...you may end up guessing right, but hamstring and other "unconnected" injuries happen and may often be related in causation, but not necessarily red flags for chronic issues...especially hamstrings - which happen often and, frustratingly, randomly.

If you have spare time read Brasilian interview about Pato's injuries.
Guy had 8 different muscle injuries in 2 years. Visited doctros from Italy to US; nobody could figure what's wrong.

Than doctor in Brasil figured that his hamstring is too strong compared to whatever other muscle was, and inbalance of them would cause his hamstring to overwork itself and cause other injuries. But by the time they figured out, 4 years passed by and his career was , at least top tear career, over.

Isaac's hyperxstended knee ( corner ) , acl tear and hamstring injury are all co-related. And if i could guess, root of a problem goes back to his nasty, nasty, nasty highschool ( probably earlier) habbit to land every single jump on left leg. Watch high college or highschool tape, especially in dunks or high impact moves. Left leg landed every single jump. Repetitive movment where body is overusing one part is execlly how injuries hpapen ( Def Swami could probably share his professioanal insight about topic )

Muscle imbalance is a big one. That's why many sprinters have legs like (lightweight) bodybuilders and often blow out hamstrings like dragsters blowing a cylinder. I'd like to believe ORL trainers have been monitoring this for any player's development. Hamstrings suck and can linger, even if not tremendous trauma or damage. It's definitely one of those injuries that get in your head for a while...feel like you're on a volcano that could blow any time...one injury can lead to favoring another joint or muscle and cause other problems...but the recovery prognosis is generally not intertwined (to the degree of the causal relationship).

We can talk stats and give examples all day, but those only affect the betting odds and likelihoods...if there's one thing I've learned, it's that everyBODY is unique. Some people overcome ridiculously severe injuries and some don't ever get over nagging BS stuff. I just hope he's getting lots of opinions with credible docs (with the team's blessing-I would hope they've learned their lesson with Hill). That doesn't make Jewett quacks, doctors are human and some have seen things others haven't. This is a major asset to be protected for ORL Magic, Inc...even looking at it coldly, there's a lot at stake.

[Bensational]

Some posters have a lot of confidence in JI returning it seems. He got re-injured during rehab. Rehab. Not just re-injured, but a new injury that required surgery on his hamstring.

Perhaps his muscles have all developed a bad imbalance over the years and the trainers have spent the last 2 years trying to reverse that to set it straight from the onset? None of us know the ins and outs of his body, but a track record of missing nearly 3.5 out of his 5 professional years should paint a pretty clear picture.

To be clear, our best interest is to get Isaac healthy and back on the court in as best shape as we can get him. But to dismiss his injury history is just denial. We should hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst. And in this situation, we’re lucky that the worst is the standard we’ve become used to with Isaac so any potential future trouble will be something we’re very experienced with at least. But it might be a harder pill to swallow for people refusing to admit how real the concerns are.

[ORLMagicGirl15]

Some posters have a lot of confidence in JI returning it seems. He got re-injured during rehab. Rehab. Not just re-injured, but a new injury that required surgery on his hamstring.

Perhaps his muscles have all developed a bad imbalance over the years and the trainers have spent the last 2 years trying to reverse that to set it straight from the onset? None of us know the ins and outs of his body, but a track record of missing nearly 3.5 out of his 5 professional years should paint a pretty clear picture.

To be clear, our best interest is to get Isaac healthy and back on the court in as best shape as we can get him. But to dismiss his injury history is just denial. We should hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst. And in this situation, we’re lucky that the worst is the standard we’ve become used to with Isaac so any potential future trouble will be something we’re very experienced with at least. But it might be a harder pill to swallow for people refusing to admit how real the concerns are.

No, we understand the realities of the situation. We get it, the possibilities of him coming back is slim. But yet we hope because he’s an exciting player and we want to see him healthy. If it happens it’s fun, if not, we’ll get over it.