Update: Shams says NY/Utah have began trade discussions for Donovan Mitchell part 3

[Clyde_Style]

Randle gets his fair share too, but he already got his extension so the damage is done. Folks don't see it as hate or bashing Randle because they mostly agree with the criticism. They both sucked last year, and the stats demonstrate that it was not anybody else's fault. They were practically indistinguishable in terms of impact, usage and inefficiency.

Now RJ and Randle are indistinguishable?

You’re scraping the bottom of your barrel sonny boy

I could bring up the stats but you admittedly don't care about them so it seems rather pointless.

[Fat Kat]

Read on Twitter

GMs stopped working with Ainge when he was with Boston because of this. It led to the Celtics pushing him out.

[stuporman]

It's a little short on cash.
Not directed at you or this post, but suddenly, having an extra, crappy 10 million player around is inconvenient.
Of course, some may run in here and say RJ or Obi fit that bill, we know the usual suspects.

Not sure what you mean by short on cash. It makes it through the trade checker.

If you are talking about the Knicks cap after it well, Fournier and Randle are still problem contracts but hopefully a season with the better ball handlers in Mitchell and Brunson will allow those two guys to look better so can be moved without as much of an issue.

Not sure who you are talking about the crappy $10 million player is unless it's just your normal cynical view of the Knicks youth.

The crappy player comment is about sometimes it's good to have a spare Kemba or Noel on the roster for trading purposes.
Everyone hated those contracts, and well, they should, as it could be extra $ 10 million players who are spare, more combinations to make a trade work.

There are a bunch of combinations to make the Mitchell trade work anyway, especially if as low as Rose/Cam works as the bulk of the $
Does it still work if you take out Grimes?

It doesn't work without Grimes so his $2.3mil gets it there. Plus I think if he's coveted by Ainge maybe he's cool with letting IQ and Obi stay since they are closer to decision time on their extensions, too, after this year they are eligible for them.

This might be why Grimes name was floated because he knows that's the young gun he will feasibly wind up with so he gets to posture like he got who he wanted in the players as well as the picks.

I do see all the problems with too small back court and then the first SG off the bench is even worse on defense than those two. I just think that Thibs will find a way to get middle of the pack team defense out of this group and the offense will be much more potent and less predictable than previous years.

[Jay10]

Read on Twitter

GMs stopped working with Ainge when he was with Boston because of this. It led to the Celtics pushing him out.

And reporters love it because he's giving them material to write about.

[iLLmatic860]

Welp....

Watch on YouTube

Their nickname is Westchester kids

Obi replacement lol

[WargamesX]

It's like attending a domestic violence group session in the basement of a cult church in here.

Except we have no chance at redemption

Incorrect.

*rings your doorbell, at an inopportune time*

Do you have a minute to discuss something important with me?

The multiple aspects of God are like the various positions around the court. Along with being the creator of the game and designer of the rules, He now stands on the court acting as the referee. He sees everything we do and watches to see if it meets his standards. As such, it is imperative that we understand His rules about how it operates.

But how blessed are we that the designer of life, the creator of the world, is also our coach? Yes, God didn’t just make the rules and then leave the world to its own devices. This other aspect of God stands just across the sideline cheering us on. He wants a personal relationship with us; He wants to know us and be known by us. He uses the Bible, the book entirely inspired by him, ghost-authored through writers over millennia, as a playbook to teach us how the rules work and how to operate safely within them. He wants nothing more than to see us succeed!

But the Bible shows us a problem. It tells us that God is perfect, holy, consistent and uncompromising. He is his own standard for perfection, and cannot lower his standard for our sake. We have all broken the rules of the game; we’ve all fallen short of our coach’s his expectations. The Bible calls these failures “sin” and unlike in a game where penalties are minor inconveniences like free throws, points, or turnovers, the penalty for sin is death.

Let us take a moment to consider what God thinks of how Tom Thibedeau and his approach to life and basketball.

This is actually deep except for the end but then again… you might have a point there too…

[Dubious Handles]

Leon and Julius need to be a bit pragmatic here and draw the line at 5 picks!!

I do understand the excitement and the inclination to overpay though, when the trade goes down it will move the Knicks immeidately to contenders for the foreseeable future.

HOF coach + MVP leader + 2 efficient lead guard scorers is a finalist team no doubt, assuming no injuries.

[thebuzzardman]

Except we have no chance at redemption

Incorrect.

*rings your doorbell, at an inopportune time*

Do you have a minute to discuss something important with me?

The multiple aspects of God are like the various positions around the court. Along with being the creator of the game and designer of the rules, He now stands on the court acting as the referee. He sees everything we do and watches to see if it meets his standards. As such, it is imperative that we understand His rules about how it operates.

But how blessed are we that the designer of life, the creator of the world, is also our coach? Yes, God didn’t just make the rules and then leave the world to its own devices. This other aspect of God stands just across the sideline cheering us on. He wants a personal relationship with us; He wants to know us and be known by us. He uses the Bible, the book entirely inspired by him, ghost-authored through writers over millennia, as a playbook to teach us how the rules work and how to operate safely within them. He wants nothing more than to see us succeed!

But the Bible shows us a problem. It tells us that God is perfect, holy, consistent and uncompromising. He is his own standard for perfection, and cannot lower his standard for our sake. We have all broken the rules of the game; we’ve all fallen short of our coach’s his expectations. The Bible calls these failures “sin” and unlike in a game where penalties are minor inconveniences like free throws, points, or turnovers, the penalty for sin is death.

Let us take a moment to consider what God thinks of how Tom Thibedeau and his approach to life and basketball.

This is actually deep except for the end but then again… you might have a point there too…

I copied it from a google search of "basketball sermons"

[KnixtapeH20]

Leon and Julius need to be a bit pragmatic here and draw the line at 5 picks!!

I do understand the excitement and the inclination to overpay though, when the trade goes down it will move the Knicks immeidately to contenders for the foreseeable future.

HOF coach + MVP leader + 2 efficient lead guard scorers is a finalist team no doubt, assuming no injuries.

Lmfaoo stfu

[TrueWarrior]

If we’re trading for Mitchell, it makes sense to give more picks than players, since ya know we’d want to win now if we got him and we wouldn’t be able to trade many picks after this trade anyway because of the consecutive pick rule.

We gotta give up Grimes or IQ tho, probably Grimes since hes only 1 year into his contract and IQ is good friends with Mitchell.

So my offer would be something like Grimes, Fournier, and 5-6 picks (3 Knicks unprotected).

Brunson / Rose / Deuce
Mitchell / IQ
RJ / Cam / Hunt
Randle / Obi
Mitch / Hart / Sims

Throw in Cam or Deuce if they really want em too, but as I said we should try to keep as many players as possible, like the Hawks and Wolves did in the Murray/Gobert trades. Ainge will ask for more, but unless somebody else has a better offer we need to hold steady here.

[WargamesX]

Incorrect.

*rings your doorbell, at an inopportune time*

Do you have a minute to discuss something important with me?

The multiple aspects of God are like the various positions around the court. Along with being the creator of the game and designer of the rules, He now stands on the court acting as the referee. He sees everything we do and watches to see if it meets his standards. As such, it is imperative that we understand His rules about how it operates.

But how blessed are we that the designer of life, the creator of the world, is also our coach? Yes, God didn’t just make the rules and then leave the world to its own devices. This other aspect of God stands just across the sideline cheering us on. He wants a personal relationship with us; He wants to know us and be known by us. He uses the Bible, the book entirely inspired by him, ghost-authored through writers over millennia, as a playbook to teach us how the rules work and how to operate safely within them. He wants nothing more than to see us succeed!

But the Bible shows us a problem. It tells us that God is perfect, holy, consistent and uncompromising. He is his own standard for perfection, and cannot lower his standard for our sake. We have all broken the rules of the game; we’ve all fallen short of our coach’s his expectations. The Bible calls these failures “sin” and unlike in a game where penalties are minor inconveniences like free throws, points, or turnovers, the penalty for sin is death.

Let us take a moment to consider what God thinks of how Tom Thibedeau and his approach to life and basketball.

This is actually deep except for the end but then again… you might have a point there too…

I copied it from a google search of "basketball sermons"

[thebuzzardman]

Leon and Julius need to be a bit pragmatic here and draw the line at 5 picks!!

I do understand the excitement and the inclination to overpay though, when the trade goes down it will move the Knicks immeidately to contenders for the foreseeable future.

HOF coach + MVP leader + 2 efficient lead guard scorers is a finalist team no doubt, assuming no injuries.

I'd assume the haggling is over number of picks but also which years. Knicks might want to maintain back to back picks in one year or not trade completely out of the 2023 draft even if it's just holding the Mavs pick, who knows.

There is probably various stances put up by both Ainge and Rose about which player Ainge wants, who Rose really wants to keep - some of it true, some of it just to drive price or win another point. I can easily see Ainge asking for Grimes, IQ, Obi without wanting 2 of them, just to extract 2 picks or ensure his pick price (and his realistic one, not his totally win the trade one) is met.

Then again, Ainge is a nut and wants to dominate every trade like a d*uche.

Pick price or price "get a star" has been creeping up even before Ainge. Davis went for a sh*t ton, Harden has been expensive several times, KD's price was a bit "pick steep". I'm less sold on idea Gobert created some "new price" as it's Ainge fleecing a team - it's allowed to be a one off, not set a new bar. I mean, seriously?

The Jazz fan on here had a point - The Knicks grab bag of picks from other teams isn't that great as the are all protected so they fall in the early 20's, basically, except the Bucks 2025, and well, that's probably 20's anyway.
On the other hand, he overstated the extent to which they "won't convey"
Right off the bat, the Mavs pick will convey. So will the Bucks.
Nuggets pick will convey and will convey in 2023 (I didn't know we had this pick)
I'd say at least one out of two of the Pistons/Wizards picks convey.

Anyway, I had this in some ebook post somewhere, but if the Knicks do 2023/25/27 unprotected, that's equal value to bulk of picks in Gobert trade. I don't think the Knicks want to deal 2029, and that was only top 5 protected, so it might take two "ok" picks, like Mavs and Pistons or Mavs and Wizards or even Pistons/Wizards to kind of even it out.

So, it's possible the Knicks can look like they are trading 5 picks, when the value is more like the Wolves 4.

Also, Wolves put two "ok" pick-like players in the trade, just drafted Wessler, and drafted two years ago Bolomero.
I guess there can be some negotiation around perceived value of IQ or Grimes to those guys, Knicks asking if they'll take a pick instead of IQ or Grimes, and so on.

[KnixinSix]

Incorrect.

*rings your doorbell, at an inopportune time*

Do you have a minute to discuss something important with me?

The multiple aspects of God are like the various positions around the court. Along with being the creator of the game and designer of the rules, He now stands on the court acting as the referee. He sees everything we do and watches to see if it meets his standards. As such, it is imperative that we understand His rules about how it operates.

But how blessed are we that the designer of life, the creator of the world, is also our coach? Yes, God didn’t just make the rules and then leave the world to its own devices. This other aspect of God stands just across the sideline cheering us on. He wants a personal relationship with us; He wants to know us and be known by us. He uses the Bible, the book entirely inspired by him, ghost-authored through writers over millennia, as a playbook to teach us how the rules work and how to operate safely within them. He wants nothing more than to see us succeed!

But the Bible shows us a problem. It tells us that God is perfect, holy, consistent and uncompromising. He is his own standard for perfection, and cannot lower his standard for our sake. We have all broken the rules of the game; we’ve all fallen short of our coach’s his expectations. The Bible calls these failures “sin” and unlike in a game where penalties are minor inconveniences like free throws, points, or turnovers, the penalty for sin is death.

Let us take a moment to consider what God thinks of how Tom Thibedeau and his approach to life and basketball.

This is actually deep except for the end but then again… you might have a point there too…

I copied it from a google search of "basketball sermons"

Hahahaha thats awesome. I came to know Christ in the shelter after losing my wife, house, job and kids and trying to end my life. Steeped in addictions I lost all hope in everything in this world. I had it half right. Hope comes not from anything this world gives you but from God alone through his Son Jesus. It is the very reason he came and was born of flesh. Christ put on our nature so we could have his. Its is incredible...I believed in Christ and received the Holy Spirit and was BORN AGAIN. His love transformed me. He restored my marriage and everything . Now I have 4 wonderful children. God wants to set us free from the slavery of this world and now I continuously pray and share with everyone around me so that they can also have this precious gift of eternal life.

[Madskillzz024]

Eric Paschall is also a CAA client

[sol537]

Grimes, Obi, Fournier and picks... is what I'm expecting at this point, with the pick package being somewhat modest compared to the crazy numbers thrown around.

Then we sign Paschall and call it a day.

Brunson / Rose
Spida / IQ
RJ / Cam
Randle / Paschall
Mitch / Hart / Sims

I think the hold up might be our insistence that they take Cam instead of Obi...

[KnixinSix]

Grimes, Obi, Fournier and picks... is what I'm expecting at this point, with the pick package being somewhat modest compared to the crazy numbers thrown around.

Then we sign Paschall and call it a day.

Brunson / Rose
Spida / IQ
RJ / Cam
Randle / Paschall
Mitch / Hart / Sims

I think the hold up might be our insistence that they take Cam instead of Obi...

I could totally see something like this too. I bet you are not far off.

[thebuzzardman]

Not sure what you mean by short on cash. It makes it through the trade checker.

If you are talking about the Knicks cap after it well, Fournier and Randle are still problem contracts but hopefully a season with the better ball handlers in Mitchell and Brunson will allow those two guys to look better so can be moved without as much of an issue.

Not sure who you are talking about the crappy $10 million player is unless it's just your normal cynical view of the Knicks youth.

The crappy player comment is about sometimes it's good to have a spare Kemba or Noel on the roster for trading purposes.
Everyone hated those contracts, and well, they should, as it could be extra $ 10 million players who are spare, more combinations to make a trade work.

There are a bunch of combinations to make the Mitchell trade work anyway, especially if as low as Rose/Cam works as the bulk of the $
Does it still work if you take out Grimes?

It doesn't work without Grimes so his $2.3mil gets it there. Plus I think if he's coveted by Ainge maybe he's cool with letting IQ and Obi stay since they are closer to decision time on their extensions, too, after this year they are eligible for them.

This might be why Grimes name was floated because he knows that's the young gun he will feasibly wind up with so he gets to posture like he got who he wanted in the players as well as the picks.

I do see all the problems with too small back court and then the first SG off the bench is even worse on defense than those two. I just think that Thibs will find a way to get middle of the pack team defense out of this group and the offense will be much more potent and less predictable than previous years.

Grimes being more cost controlled for a year is an important point and may mean more to Ainge than talent.
I'm not getting into some IQ vs Grimes debate with anyone on here. I think they are both at least decent, probably good, have different strengths and flaws.
Again, who is out in the trade also, matters. Rose is out, I probably keep IQ for some extra PG depth, in spite of height issues.
Rose AND Cam, tough choice - then it's a toss up. Probably hope Grimes stays.

But again, it's a point Ainge might be sticking on.

Hmm. Final answer.

The Brunson/Mitchell backcourt will already have defensive issues.
I know it's not a deep playoff team, yet.
I want to be entertained by Brunson and Mitchell.
Doubling down, I want to continue to be entertained by the chemistry of IQ and Obi.

Brunson/Mitchell/IQ
Mitchell/IQ
RJ/Cam or ?
Randle/Obi
Meetch/Hartenstein/Sims

Let's get it done.

Would be so sweet if Ainge just took Fournier and Cam though. I'd let him have 7 picks for that.

[stuporman]

The Wiz and Pistons picks are going to convey in the teens, the Wiz will sneak up one season into the play in and theirs will go and the Pistons are on the rise so theirs will, too.

Don't let anyone fool you into believing it's more likely they won't because that's not the case, they aren't fake firsts.

Ainge doesn't want 2 years of Fournier if Rose only has one guaranteed while making the money work so that's who will go even though he's a Thibs fave and he loses one of his guys who can't come back for a year.

[Chanel Bomber]

Leon and Julius need to be a bit pragmatic here and draw the line at 5 picks!!

I do understand the excitement and the inclination to overpay though, when the trade goes down it will move the Knicks immeidately to contenders for the foreseeable future.

HOF coach + MVP leader + 2 efficient lead guard scorers is a finalist team no doubt, assuming no injuries.

I'd assume the haggling is over number of picks but also which years. Knicks might want to maintain back to back picks in one year or not trade completely out of the 2023 draft even if it's just holding the Mavs pick, who knows.

There is probably various stances put up by both Ainge and Rose about which player Ainge wants, who Rose really wants to keep - some of it true, some of it just to drive price or win another point. I can easily see Ainge asking for Grimes, IQ, Obi without wanting 2 of them, just to extract 2 picks or ensure his pick price (and his realistic one, not his totally win the trade one) is met.

Then again, Ainge is a nut and wants to dominate every trade like a d*uche.

Pick price or price "get a star" has been creeping up even before Ainge. Davis went for a sh*t ton, Harden has been expensive several times, KD's price was a bit "pick steep". I'm less sold on idea Gobert created some "new price" as it's Ainge fleecing a team - it's allowed to be a one off, not set a new bar. I mean, seriously?

The Jazz fan on here had a point - The Knicks grab bag of picks from other teams isn't that great as the are all protected so they fall in the early 20's, basically, except the Bucks 2025, and well, that's probably 20's anyway.
On the other hand, he overstated the extent to which they "won't convey"
Right off the bat, the Mavs pick will convey. So will the Bucks.
Nuggets pick will convey and will convey in 2023 (I didn't know we had this pick)
I'd say at least one out of two of the Pistons/Wizards picks convey.

Anyway, I had this in some ebook post somewhere, but if the Knicks do 2023/25/27 unprotected, that's equal value to bulk of picks in Gobert trade. I don't think the Knicks want to deal 2029, and that was only top 5 protected, so it might take two "ok" picks, like Mavs and Pistons or Mavs and Wizards or even Pistons/Wizards to kind of even it out.

So, it's possible the Knicks can look like they are trading 5 picks, when the value is more like the Wolves 4.

Also, Wolves put two "ok" pick-like players in the trade, just drafted Wessler, and drafted two years ago Bolomero.
I guess there can be some negotiation around perceived value of IQ or Grimes to those guys, Knicks asking if they'll take a pick instead of IQ or Grimes, and so on.

I think every pick the Knicks own from other teams should be on the table, but I'm fairly sure Ainge sees them as just scrap.

The prize assets are unprotected Knicks picks, because it's historically guaranteed the Knicks will suck at some point in the next 6-7 years.

Mitchell is a legit star but not a tier-1 superstar who automatically puts you in championship contention, so it's important that the Knicks have a safety net in the form of draft capital that they own. They can't trade them all away (e.g. by including pick swaps) in this deal, hence I would as much as possible replace Knicks picks with players, and identify 1-2 with some upside who you'd keep out of the deal.

[thebuzzardman]

Grimes, Obi, Fournier and picks... is what I'm expecting at this point, with the pick package being somewhat modest compared to the crazy numbers thrown around.

Then we sign Paschall and call it a day.

Brunson / Rose
Spida / IQ
RJ / Cam
Randle / Paschall
Mitch / Hart / Sims

I think the hold up might be our insistence that they take Cam instead of Obi...

I could totally see something like this too. I bet you are not far off.

Yup. and in my head - and my posts - I'm always looking for ways to keep Obi- and it might happen- but I can see this situation where Rose stays, as the FO and Thibs saw him as integral to their "success" 2 years ago.

In a way - and this isn't some FO kudos thing - and yes, there are defensive and height issues, but that lineup has more defined "starters" and "bench",