Update: Shams says NY/Utah have began trade discussions for Donovan Mitchell part 3

[KnixinSix]

The crappy player comment is about sometimes it's good to have a spare Kemba or Noel on the roster for trading purposes.
Everyone hated those contracts, and well, they should, as it could be extra $ 10 million players who are spare, more combinations to make a trade work.

There are a bunch of combinations to make the Mitchell trade work anyway, especially if as low as Rose/Cam works as the bulk of the $
Does it still work if you take out Grimes?

It doesn't work without Grimes so his $2.3mil gets it there. Plus I think if he's coveted by Ainge maybe he's cool with letting IQ and Obi stay since they are closer to decision time on their extensions, too, after this year they are eligible for them.

This might be why Grimes name was floated because he knows that's the young gun he will feasibly wind up with so he gets to posture like he got who he wanted in the players as well as the picks.

I do see all the problems with too small back court and then the first SG off the bench is even worse on defense than those two. I just think that Thibs will find a way to get middle of the pack team defense out of this group and the offense will be much more potent and less predictable than previous years.

Grimes being more cost controlled for a year is an important point and may mean more to Ainge than talent.
I'm not getting into some IQ vs Grimes debate with anyone on here. I think they are both at least decent, probably good, have different strengths and flaws.
Again, who is out in the trade also, matters. Rose is out, I probably keep IQ for some extra PG depth, in spite of height issues.
Rose AND Cam, tough choice - then it's a toss up. Probably hope Grimes stays.

But again, it's a point Ainge might be sticking on.

Hmm. Final answer.

The Brunson/Mitchell backcourt will already have defensive issues.
I know it's not a deep playoff team, yet.
I want to be entertained by Brunson and Mitchell.
Doubling down, I want to continue to be entertained by the chemistry of IQ and Obi.

Brunson/Mitchell/IQ
Mitchell/IQ
RJ/Cam or ?
Randle/Obi
Meetch/Hartenstein/Sims

Let's get it done.

Would be so sweet if Ainge just took Fournier and Cam though. I'd let him have 7 picks for that.

IQ is surprisingly a pretty good defender and the tape and metrics for that matter bear it out. I think the shooting will come for him with maturity and better shot selection because he has a naturally great stroke. I dont like the scenario of BOTH Grimes and IQ be included because both are a bit taller gaurds who can hit the 3 with defensive ability. We need to keep one of them. Grimes may have the higher upside of the two IMO but either can get the job done as a rotational option and complement to the Brunson/Mitchell backcourt.

[KnixtapeH20]

If we’re trading for Mitchell, it makes sense to give more picks than players, since ya know we’d want to win now if we got him and we wouldn’t be able to trade many picks after this trade anyway because of the consecutive pick rule.

We gotta give up Grimes or IQ tho, probably Grimes since hes only 1 year into his contract and IQ is good friends with Mitchell.

So my offer would be something like Grimes, Fournier, and 5-6 picks (3 Knicks unprotected).

Brunson / Rose / Deuce
Mitchell / IQ
RJ / Cam / Hunt
Randle / Obi
Mitch / Hart / Sims

Throw in Cam or Deuce if they really want em too, but as I said we should try to keep as many players as possible, like the Hawks and Wolves did in the Murray/Gobert trades. Ainge will ask for more, but unless somebody else has a better offer we need to hold steady here.

I hold on on including Grimes till the very last second. **** ainge.

Id include IQ over Grimes but that's me

[Juco24]

Regardless of what's been reported... I think RJ ends up going to the Jazz

[KnixinSix]

Grimes, Obi, Fournier and picks... is what I'm expecting at this point, with the pick package being somewhat modest compared to the crazy numbers thrown around.

Then we sign Paschall and call it a day.

Brunson / Rose
Spida / IQ
RJ / Cam
Randle / Paschall
Mitch / Hart / Sims

I think the hold up might be our insistence that they take Cam instead of Obi...

I could totally see something like this too. I bet you are not far off.

Yup. and in my head - and my posts - I'm always looking for ways to keep Obi- and it might happen- but I can see this situation where Rose stays, as the FO and Thibs saw him as integral to their "success" 2 years ago.

In a way - and this isn't some FO kudos thing - and yes, there are defensive and height issues, but that lineup has more defined "starters" and "bench",

Love Obi for his ability to be a tremendous off ball scorer which would compliment this line up really well. However you just kind of feel like they are still committed to Randle and Thibs might not love Obis defense. Could be wrong, but he feels kind of like the 'odd man' out here.

[DaGawd]

It was cool adding NY area guys… for that reason Obi has to stay.. find a way to get rid of Randle.. start Obi, sign Eric and Melo as his back ups

[DaGawd]

Regardless of what's been reported... I think RJ ends up going to the Jazz

[KnixinSix]

Regardless of what's been reported... I think RJ ends up going to the Jazz

Dont think Ainge wants a 'soft' tank but a 'hard' tank. Also meaning not taking on guys that want max contracts that might not be fully worth it (kind of like Ayton situation).

The guys that are cheap and have a couple more years on their contracts will be much more attractive: Grimes,Obi, McBride, IQ. But most of all he wants the picks so he can pick his own guys molded in the vision he wants for the team.

[Chanel Bomber]

I could totally see something like this too. I bet you are not far off.

Yup. and in my head - and my posts - I'm always looking for ways to keep Obi- and it might happen- but I can see this situation where Rose stays, as the FO and Thibs saw him as integral to their "success" 2 years ago.

In a way - and this isn't some FO kudos thing - and yes, there are defensive and height issues, but that lineup has more defined "starters" and "bench",

Love Obi for his ability to be a tremendous off ball scorer which would compliment this line up really well. However you just kind of feel like they are still committed to Randle and Thibs might not love Obis defense. Could be wrong, but he feels kind of like the 'odd man' out here.

Especially with the signing of Hartenstein as the back-up 5.

Either Randle or Obi has to be in the deal for it to make sense in terms of asset management, unless they are already planning for a secondary trade.

I agree with you about IQ and Grimes by the way.

[stuporman]

If the Knicks are including multiple of Obi, IQ and Grimes then the number of picks goes down...it's either picks or young players, not both.

[Knox]

We could keep a lot of those draft picks, grimes, and Obi if we work a sign and trade for Collin Sexton. He is 6’1 and can score 20pg…. (Runs)

[KnixinSix]

Yup. and in my head - and my posts - I'm always looking for ways to keep Obi- and it might happen- but I can see this situation where Rose stays, as the FO and Thibs saw him as integral to their "success" 2 years ago.

In a way - and this isn't some FO kudos thing - and yes, there are defensive and height issues, but that lineup has more defined "starters" and "bench",

Love Obi for his ability to be a tremendous off ball scorer which would compliment this line up really well. However you just kind of feel like they are still committed to Randle and Thibs might not love Obis defense. Could be wrong, but he feels kind of like the 'odd man' out here.

Especially with the signing of Hartenstein as the back-up 5.

Either Randle or Obi has to be in the deal for it to make sense in terms of asset management, unless they are already planning for a secondary trade.

I agree with you about IQ and Grimes by the way.

Good point on Hartenstein. He is kind of a lesser Obi which is fine as a rotational piece

[3toheadmelo]

Bye obi

[iLLmatic860]

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2213974

its only a matter of time until dudes start complaining about Leon and Co using their Caa and Kentucky connections lol

[Spree2Houston]

There are other teams who would gladly take our package for their star players. Potential guys in the next few years include SGA, Zion, KAT, and Booker. My guess is Booker will be plan b given Paul’s age and their cheap owner.

[Bob Ross]

Increase the picks and keep Grimes or Obi

[Jay10]

There are other teams who would gladly take our package for their star players. Potential guys in the next few years include SGA, Zion, KAT, and Booker. My guess is Booker will be plan b given Paul’s age and their cheap owner.

Booker just signed his extension a few weeks ago.

I think SGA is going to be the next player since he's always being shut down after the all-star break.

[Madskillzz024]

There are other teams who would gladly take our package for their star players. Potential guys in the next few years include SGA, Zion, KAT, and Booker. My guess is Booker will be plan b given Paul’s age and their cheap owner.

3 out of the 4 guys mentioned above just signed max extensions.

[Juco24]

There are other teams who would gladly take our package for their star players. Potential guys in the next few years include SGA, Zion, KAT, and Booker. My guess is Booker will be plan b given Paul’s age and their cheap owner.

Agreed... I really hope we don't overpay here

[El Poochio]

Leon and Julius need to be a bit pragmatic here and draw the line at 5 picks!!

I do understand the excitement and the inclination to overpay though, when the trade goes down it will move the Knicks immeidately to contenders for the foreseeable future.

HOF coach + MVP leader + 2 efficient lead guard scorers is a finalist team no doubt, assuming no injuries.

Who is the hof coach who is the mvp leader

[rammagen]

Rose will get slaughtered if he doesn't get this done and he knows it. Utah is gonna eventually make him pony up the assets they're asking for. Sucks, but it is what it is. Rose has locked himself into this deal now. I can't see him walking away no matter what the demands are. This deal has become too public and has become too much of a foregone conclusion by the media and fans.

Imagine if it comes out later that Rose turned it down because of Grimes or Obi, or one of the protected 1sts. He won't be able to live it down.

There's a high percentage of Knicks fans on this board that don't want this deal, but if you polled the millions of 'regular' Knicks fans out there they want Mitchell. This board is not reflective of Knicks fans as a whole. Rose will get crushed if he doesn't close this.

That’s dumb logic. With that logic what’s to stop Ainge for asking for everything? “You gave me Grimes, Obi, and IQ and 5 firsts but I want a 6th first now” “oh and now and you added a 6th first round pick so now I want McBride too.” “Add RJ and we have a deal”

When negotiating you have to draw a line at some point.

Rose should be applauded for drawing a line in the sand.
You cant gove IP all your assets for one player period. 2 young player and 4 to 5 picks. Because the twolves over paid why should we. Lets say another player comes on the market during the yr as these negotiations drag on that is leakage.

Personally I would move Randle. Promote Top in amd sign Bamba as a back up 4. This does 2 things it shows we can move on and gathers more assets. But they may see a starting line up with Randle at the 3 and Topping at the 4 with RJ playing the 2 with Brunson. Charlotte needs a 4 and Randle can fill that role there and I think they have the space

I am on vacation and hate using these small keyboards on my phone ....sorry for the typos but you guys see my points.

We dont need to do this trade at a price ainge wants.

But the worst thing that has happened in 50 yrs of watching the nba is these reactionary clowns like stephen smith.
We want Mitchell yes but do we really need him at the sacrifice of all the picks and youth. Nope.
Take iq grimes reddish an 4 picks that would be my starting package. Every time ainge comes back would something stupid like 6 picks a player gets removed. So you want all my picks and my youth. You cant have both. What is your priority? Let me help establish it.

There is an old saying in development you can pick 2 out of 3 items
You can have it fast
You can have good
You can have it cheap
But your cant have all 3 .....do pick 2 and be happy
Something similar applies here
We can over pay and have it now
We can wait and have it good
Or we can be cheap and just keep saying no.

I got with option 3 we know what the can at most heat can offer is 3 picks if it can aquire 1 more.
Why should be bidding against ourselves. This is a nice to have player but not Jordan in his prime.

Be patient draw a line in the sand and let ainge and the league know by proxy the front office are not fools