Update: Shams says NY/Utah have began trade discussions for Donovan Mitchell part 3

[thebuzzardman]

Its funny how all of us are so split on what kinda packages we want to offer.

Many, like myself, want to keep more players and give up more picks. I just think we may as well keep the guys we already have and know. Obi and IQ help us (and Mitchell) more now than some late 1st rounder in 5 years, and we wouldnt be able to get much in a trade for a pick like that either (we wouldn’t be able to trade some of our future picks anyway).

Remember, if a few of our guys breakout we can always get assets for them later if we want. Randle, RJ, Brunson, Obi, IQ, Hart, Mitch, Cam, etc can be traded down the line if its not working out. They wont be dead weight if they’re playing well, even if they got paid.

I can't even decide on who I'd want to see go, among the youth.
Hell, I even like a scenario where Rose stays.

[Knicksrule2k4]

Fournier/Obi/Rose and 5 firsts. Final offer

[Spree2Houston]

My keepers are Cam and Grimes. Since the FO doesn’t seem interested in trading Randle then we need to maximize Obi’s value in a trade. IQ is expendable as well. You can find guys like him every year in the draft (ex Miles McBride and Jaden Hardy if we had taken him). They’re easier to find and replace.

[KnixinSix]

Brunson
Mitchell
RJ/Cam
Randle
Mitch

Is more help Mitchell has than Melo ever got. Just do the deal. IQ, Obi, Mcbride is replaceable. Will suck losing grimes but he’s not a dealbreaker

I also think if we can keep 2 of IQ/Obi/Cam


thats more help than Donovan Mitchell has also ever had with Utah


Conley
Bojan
Ingles
Gobert
Clarkson

vs

Brunson
RJ
Mitch
Randle
2 of Obi/IQ/Cam
Hartenstein



in 2019 Mudiay/Jeff Green played 54 games for them. Mudiay/Green wouldn't even sniff 1 game with IQ/Cam on our roster.

It is absolutely better than Utah. And a few of our guys still have room to grow on their development arc.

[3toheadmelo]

Brunson
Mitchell
RJ/Cam
Randle
Mitch

Is more help Mitchell has than Melo ever got. Just do the deal. IQ, Obi, Mcbride is replaceable. Will suck losing grimes but he’s not a dealbreaker

I also think if we can keep 2 of IQ/Obi/Cam


thats more help than Donovan Mitchell has also ever had with Utah


Conley
Bojan
Ingles
Gobert
Clarkson

vs

Brunson
RJ
Mitch
Randle
2 of Obi/IQ/Cam
Hartenstein



in 2019 Mudiay/Jeff Green played 54 games for them. Mudiay/Green wouldn't even sniff 1 game with IQ/Cam on our roster.

It would be impossible to keep both of Obi and IQ. I think we have to give all of our youth up

[NYF13]

There are 3 priorities for the FO. Nothing is imminent.

Ideally FO will like to keep Grimes or package IQ and Obi together with McBride. Sims is valuable only in the case of Obi is traded. Keeping a front court of Mitch- Randle-Hartenstein-Sims/Obi is a priority.

Barrett-Brunson-DMitchell and try to retain as many from IQ/Grimes/Rose/Fournier is a priority.

Trade as many picks until 2027 and not stretch further beyond is also another priority.

Thank me for the insight later.

[Spree2Houston]

There are 3 priorities for the FO. Nothing is imminent.

Ideally FO will like to keep Grimes or package IQ and Obi together with McBride. Sims is valuable only in the case of Obi is traded. Keeping a front court of Mitch- Randle-Hartenstein-Sims/Obi is a priority.

Barrett-Brunson-DMitchell and try to retain as many from IQ/Grimes/Rose/Fournier is a priority.

Trade as many picks until 2027 and not stretch further beyond is also another priority.

Thank me for the insight later.

It’s Ian Begley

[thebuzzardman]

The Wiz and Pistons picks are going to convey in the teens, the Wiz will sneak up one season into the play in and theirs will go and the Pistons are on the rise so theirs will, too.

Don't let anyone fool you into believing it's more likely they won't because that's not the case, they aren't fake firsts.

Ainge doesn't want 2 years of Fournier if Rose only has one guaranteed while making the money work so that's who will go even though he's a Thibs fave and he loses one of his guys who can't come back for a year.

Good post for me to ask this.

I see it that the Knicks have the following picks, besides Mavs 2023
Wiz, Pistons - various protections
Bucks 2025, top 5 protected

But then I see "Nuggets 2023"

Nevermind. And I saw I put that in a few posts where the Knicks have it.
They don't; Hornets have it.
NM

Also interesting. Knicks traded all the way out of 2023, 2nd round pick wise. Not interesting for any reason, just noticed

[Clyde_Style]

I'd rather just see what Grimes can do starting, that is how you really build winners, is when some young player you have outplays their contract. He averaged 13ppg 3rpg 1apg on 46% and 44% from 3 in his 6 starts as a rookie, the summer league performance is just confirmation that something is there with him. That is what a really prudent front office would do, it's not about Grimes being better than Mitchell, it's about how much can Grimes give us in relation to Mitchell, if as a starter he gives you 60% of the offense with much better defense then it's an idiotic trade.

That this FO has that option is a hedge against overpaying for DM. They can legit say to Ainge's face we do have strong SG options now so we are not dependent on this deal happening if you keep trying to fleece us.

[KnixinSix]

The crappy player comment is about sometimes it's good to have a spare Kemba or Noel on the roster for trading purposes.
Everyone hated those contracts, and well, they should, as it could be extra $ 10 million players who are spare, more combinations to make a trade work.

There are a bunch of combinations to make the Mitchell trade work anyway, especially if as low as Rose/Cam works as the bulk of the $
Does it still work if you take out Grimes?

It doesn't work without Grimes so his $2.3mil gets it there. Plus I think if he's coveted by Ainge maybe he's cool with letting IQ and Obi stay since they are closer to decision time on their extensions, too, after this year they are eligible for them.

This might be why Grimes name was floated because he knows that's the young gun he will feasibly wind up with so he gets to posture like he got who he wanted in the players as well as the picks.

I do see all the problems with too small back court and then the first SG off the bench is even worse on defense than those two. I just think that Thibs will find a way to get middle of the pack team defense out of this group and the offense will be much more potent and less predictable than previous years.

Grimes being more cost controlled for a year is an important point and may mean more to Ainge than talent.
I'm not getting into some IQ vs Grimes debate with anyone on here. I think they are both at least decent, probably good, have different strengths and flaws.
Again, who is out in the trade also, matters. Rose is out, I probably keep IQ for some extra PG depth, in spite of height issues.
Rose AND Cam, tough choice - then it's a toss up. Probably hope Grimes stays.

But again, it's a point Ainge might be sticking on.

Hmm. Final answer.

The Brunson/Mitchell backcourt will already have defensive issues.
I know it's not a deep playoff team, yet.
I want to be entertained by Brunson and Mitchell.
Doubling down, I want to continue to be entertained by the chemistry of IQ and Obi.

Brunson/Mitchell/IQ
Mitchell/IQ
RJ/Cam or ?
Randle/Obi
Meetch/Hartenstein/Sims

Let's get it done.

Would be so sweet if Ainge just took Fournier and Cam though. I'd let him have 7 picks for that.

Want to keep Obi bad but it feels like he is gone.


Kind of feel this is the 'range' right now:

Obi
One of: Fournier or Rose
One of: Grimes or IQ
And Possibly one of: McBride, Reddish, Keels, Hunt, Rokas

Between 4 and 6 picks depending on protections. Maybe a pick swap or 2.

Sign Pascall or Melo afterwards

[Knicksfan1992]

Given what he's shown in summer league and what we know about the other offers Grimes and RJ should be off the table IMO.

With Don here, IQs archetype becomes less valuable to us and Obi will still be a bench piece. You could then bump Cam to backup 3/4 and next year or at the deadline try to target some shooting wing depth to replace Fournier.

Cueing Chanel here I wish we still.had Burks.. He'd be a nice wing piece to have with RJ, Grimes and Cam

[Deeeez Knicks]

Not that he’s a deal breaker, but Deuce would fit next to Mitchell in bench lineups if we need to give up both IQ and Rose and Deuce ends up staying

[DaGawd]

Given what he's shown in summer league and what we know about the other offers Grimes and RJ should be off the table IMO.

With Don here, IQs archetype becomes less valuable to us and Obi will still be a bench piece. You could then bump Cam to backup 3/4 and next year or at the deadline try to target some shooting wing depth to replace Fournier.

Cueing Chanel here I wish we still.had Burks.. He'd be a nice wing piece to have with RJ, Grimes and Cam

Thought I was the only one that felt like this about IQ. I like him but he’s expendable now with Brunson and then Mitchell here. We’d need to keep Grimes since he has more size and I feel like he might even have better scoring potential/overall impact than IQ

[louisorr]

now Ainge is playing hard ball with trading Beverly-(a throw in from the Gobert haul)-I hate this man. Please Knicks just walk away.

[Bob Ross]

now Ainge is playing hard ball with trading Beverly-(a throw in from the Gobert haul)-I hate this man. Please Knicks just walk away.

What does this mean

[thebuzzardman]

Er, any trades or scenarios where I mention the Knicks using the Nuggest 2023 pick, just assume I meant "Rights to Jokubitus"

F*cked that up like 5 times over the last 2 days.

[El Poochio]

Brunson
Mitchell
RJ/Cam
Randle
Mitch

Is more help Mitchell has than Melo ever got. Just do the deal. IQ, Obi, Mcbride is replaceable. Will suck losing grimes but he’s not a dealbreaker

Can not wait for the Mitchell vs Melo threads

[Clyde_Style]

Er, any trades or scenarios where I mention the Knicks using the Nuggest 2023 pick, just assume I meant "Rights to Jokubitus"

F*cked that up like 5 times over the last 2 days.

I'd say you're slipping, but ................

[F N 11]

now Ainge is playing hard ball with trading Beverly-(a throw in from the Gobert haul)-I hate this man. Please Knicks just walk away.

What does this mean

New rumor he don’t want to Throw in Beverly?

[robillionaire]

Brunson
Mitchell
RJ/Cam
Randle
Mitch

Is more help Mitchell has than Melo ever got. Just do the deal. IQ, Obi, Mcbride is replaceable. Will suck losing grimes but he’s not a dealbreaker

Can not wait for the Mitchell vs Melo threads

Melo will be playing here might even be the starting 3 if they send RJ to Utah