Donovan Mitchell Discussion 4

[Madskillzz024]

Basically Begley says be weary of Miami

I think Ainge hates Riley more than us... but I can see Ainge using Miami to get NY to up the ante

Like Mitchell’s price went up from the Rudy trade, KD’s price could go up a lot higher from a Mitchell trade as well

[knicksstuff]

I want to know how Miami is going to get all these extra picks lmfao

What do they have that they are willing to give up for picks that wouldnt dampen their offer to the jazz

[ag3]

Bc Knicks fans said we tanked twice in the last 25 years so after all this losing and ruining draft positions at the end of every season, they are now convinced that tanking doesn’t work.

Tbf, which tanking teams have won titles? Duncan Spurs?

Which team has won a title without drafting a superstar first?

Raptors? Traded for a 1 year rental, Kawhi Leonard, and won a title.

[god shammgod]

they won't tank, so it doesn't really matter if you think it's the only way. they aint gonna do it.

[sol537]

I’m just jealous of Detroit. Here we are talking about giving up our youth plus damn near all of our future picks for a non-superstar player, while Detroit did it right and has all their picks plus Cade, Ivey, Duren, and Bey.

Why is this so hard for us to do? We should have Ivey & Duren

Smaller markets have figured out the draft is their salvation, and to keep your star you make sure you suck for a few years so they have the pieces around them.

The Jazz did the opposite too, they got their star and then made trades to compete right away. Now, they're going to use the Ainge method, and it'll lead to a better team in the long run.


We should have tanked RJ's rookie season without any remorse and used the off-season to be a salary dumping ground with picks attached, we'd be much better off right now.

There are different ways to skin a cat... Detroit, ORL, HOU, and OKC all have nice young cores, for sure, but none of those teams would be better than a core of Brunson, Spida, RJ, Randle, etc. within the next 4 seasons IMO and those teams have been bad for quite some time and I'd say at least two of those four teams could very well not work out.

[spree8]

I’m just jealous of Detroit. Here we are talking about giving up our youth plus damn near all of our future picks for a non-superstar player, while Detroit did it right and has all their picks plus Cade, Ivey, Duren, and Bey.

Why is this so hard for us to do? We should have Ivey & Duren

I’m sure Detroit has plenty of spots for fans?

Meh, as a basketball fan, the Pistons are definitely a team to watch on my League Pass list, but you can’t really force yourself to be a true fan.

Since you don’t get to choose who you love, I’m a Knick fan for life, and that’s just the way it is.

[mpharris36]

they won't tank, so it doesn't really matter if you think it's the only way. they aint gonna do it.

correct, I have come to terms with that so at least make the product interesting. And Brunson/Mitchell unless catastrophic injury should not put us in the top 10.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

I’m just jealous of Detroit. Here we are talking about giving up our youth plus damn near all of our future picks for a non-superstar player, while Detroit did it right and has all their picks plus Cade, Ivey, Duren, and Bey.

Why is this so hard for us to do? We should have Ivey & Duren

Smaller markets have figured out the draft is their salvation, and to keep your star you make sure you suck for a few years so they have the pieces around them.

The Jazz did the opposite too, they got their star and then made trades to compete right away. Now, they're going to use the Ainge method, and it'll lead to a better team in the long run.


We should have tanked RJ's rookie season without any remorse and used the off-season to be a salary dumping ground with picks attached, we'd be much better off right now.

There are different ways to skin a cat... Detroit, ORL, HOU, and OKC all have nice young cores, for sure, but none of those teams would be better than a core of Brunson, Spida, RJ, Randle, etc. within the next 4 seasons IMO and those teams have been bad for quite some time and I'd say at least two of those four teams could very well not work out.

You're not thinking clearly if you're really penciling Randle into a core with two ball dominant guards, also the Magic started their rebuild with the Vucevic trade and have already amassed more talent than us, the Rockets will have caproom for two max players as well and the Pistons have more high end talent.

This is "formidable" type of Knicks propaganda, heard this all before last season about how we're going to be a top 4 team.

[Deeeez Knicks]

I’m just jealous of Detroit. Here we are talking about giving up our youth plus damn near all of our future picks for a non-superstar player, while Detroit did it right and has all their picks plus Cade, Ivey, Duren, and Bey.

Why is this so hard for us to do? We should have Ivey & Duren

Smaller markets have figured out the draft is their salvation, and to keep your star you make sure you suck for a few years so they have the pieces around them.

The Jazz did the opposite too, they got their star and then made trades to compete right away. Now, they're going to use the Ainge method, and it'll lead to a better team in the long run.


We should have tanked RJ's rookie season without any remorse and used the off-season to be a salary dumping ground with picks attached, we'd be much better off right now.

Those 2 years after RJ would have been the perfect time to tank and truly rebuild. Instead they signed a bunch of guys who dont fit next to RJ to try to be competitive.

Yea, they will never commit to a true rebuild/tank.

[whocares1]

Tbf, which tanking teams have won titles? Duncan Spurs?

Which team has won a title without drafting a superstar first?

Which team has won a title drafting an eventual superstar after tanking? Just Duncan. And if you count LeBron coming back.

Regardless. The logic is that tanking increases your chances of picking a superstar talent. A homegrown superstar player is needed according to every single championship for the past two decades. The Knicks currently do not have one. You could argue and say that Steph at #7 isn’t tanking. But two of their 4 championships were with a #2 Draft pick. And the first one they got can be argued that it could’ve done differently if the #1 draft pick from the other team stayed healthy.

[whocares1]

I’m just jealous of Detroit. Here we are talking about giving up our youth plus damn near all of our future picks for a non-superstar player, while Detroit did it right and has all their picks plus Cade, Ivey, Duren, and Bey.

Why is this so hard for us to do? We should have Ivey & Duren

Smaller markets have figured out the draft is their salvation, and to keep your star you make sure you suck for a few years so they have the pieces around them.

The Jazz did the opposite too, they got their star and then made trades to compete right away. Now, they're going to use the Ainge method, and it'll lead to a better team in the long run.


We should have tanked RJ's rookie season without any remorse and used the off-season to be a salary dumping ground with picks attached, we'd be much better off right now.

Those 2 years after RJ would have been the perfect time to tank and truly rebuild. Instead they signed a bunch of guys who dont fit next to RJ to try to be competitive.

Yea, they will never commit to a true rebuild/tank.

They didn’t tank bc the Nets got KD and Kyrie. If they had gone anywhere else we would’ve been in a better position. But Dolan cares about the business aspect first over building a winner.

[Clyde_Style]

Y’all better pray a DM deal ships Randle out to another team, because if he’s still here the locker room will be toxic and the team will implode from the bad chemistry

[SelbyCobra]

It's actually really prudent to acquire Mitchell now, and then have 2 years to work him and Brunson in together, find out if Julius is redeemable/tradeable, see what RJ becomes, and determine if Mitch can be relied on before the cap explosion.

Getting Mitchell now gives the FO a chance to sort through it all for 2 years, and then be in prime position to add a max cat in the right role/position to become a legit contender.

I'm coming around to this position, first because what choice do we have? And second, curious if they can make it work better than the Utah-DM-Gobert assemblage did.

But I still hate giving up both 2023 FRPs!!!

Totally agree. I'm wary if this FO can make the right choices, too, but the path is definitely there to contend because of the unique cap situation coming up. An extra $50M in room to maneuver 2-3 years from now is the single most important part of the trade-for-Mitchell-now equation, and it's been considered just briefly in these threads.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Smaller markets have figured out the draft is their salvation, and to keep your star you make sure you suck for a few years so they have the pieces around them.

The Jazz did the opposite too, they got their star and then made trades to compete right away. Now, they're going to use the Ainge method, and it'll lead to a better team in the long run.


We should have tanked RJ's rookie season without any remorse and used the off-season to be a salary dumping ground with picks attached, we'd be much better off right now.

Those 2 years after RJ would have been the perfect time to tank and truly rebuild. Instead they signed a bunch of guys who dont fit next to RJ to try to be competitive.

Yea, they will never commit to a true rebuild/tank.

They didn’t tank bc the Nets got KD and Kyrie. If they had gone anywhere else we would’ve been in a better position. But Dolan cares about the business aspect first over building a winner.

The Knicks thought they were getting KD and Mills sold Dolan on that plan. Dolan was bragging on the radio that the Knicks were signing stars. No matter where KD and Kyrie signed, there was no turning back. Knicks were going to try to play the cards they had no matter what, instead of just accepting that they had bad cards and folding like they should have. It was all pretty ridiculous and sad.

[Fury]

Which team has won a title without drafting a superstar first?

Which team has won a title drafting an eventual superstar after tanking? Just Duncan. And if you count LeBron coming back.

Regardless. The logic is that tanking increases your chances of picking a superstar talent. A homegrown superstar player is needed according to every single championship for the past two decades. The Knicks currently do not have one. You could argue and say that Steph at #7 isn’t tanking. But two of their 4 championships were with a #2 Draft pick. And the first one they got can be argued that it could’ve done differently if the #1 draft pick from the other team stayed healthy.

If the Warriors are your only example (not a great one), then it’s clear that tanking hasn’t yielded much success.

[Gravy]

I’m just jealous of Detroit. Here we are talking about giving up our youth plus damn near all of our future picks for a non-superstar player, while Detroit did it right and has all their picks plus Cade, Ivey, Duren, and Bey.

Why is this so hard for us to do? We should have Ivey & Duren

Is Cade, Ivey, Duren, and Bey the same amount of talent as Donovan Mitchell, RJ, Brunson, and Mitch? In the end thats all that matters whether we drafted or signed them.

[god shammgod]

they won't tank, so it doesn't really matter if you think it's the only way. they aint gonna do it.

correct, I have come to terms with that so at least make the product interesting. And Brunson/Mitchell unless catastrophic injury should not put us in the top 10.

and maybe they figure out some way to get the next star 2 or 3 years from now or so. probably not but who knows. truth is, very few guys win titles at all. you usually need one of the best players of all time on your squad. look at the past 11 years. it's all bron or curry, with or without durant, with 1 giannis win and 2 for kawhi. that's it. 2 (or 3 if you include durant) guys won 8 titles and the other 2 won 3. what's the alternative right now ? pick 10th through 14th again. if we even keep the pick ? just another wasted year where nothing is accomplished.

[knicksstuff]

Y’all better pray a DM deal ships Randle out to another team, because if he’s still here the locker room will be toxic and the team will implode from the bad chemistry

I agree with this but I think if Obi is shipped out it wouldnt be that bad..... I think a lot of Randles issues last year were due to the fact that eery game he had to hear the crowd chant for his backup to come in

[N Y K]

Which team has won a title without drafting a superstar first?

Which team has won a title drafting an eventual superstar after tanking? Just Duncan. And if you count LeBron coming back.

Regardless. The logic is that tanking increases your chances of picking a superstar talent. A homegrown superstar player is needed according to every single championship for the past two decades. The Knicks currently do not have one. You could argue and say that Steph at #7 isn’t tanking. But two of their 4 championships were with a #2 Draft pick. And the first one they got can be argued that it could’ve done differently if the #1 draft pick from the other team stayed healthy.

I'm just bummed you didn't answer Fury with another question... you two had something special going there for a moment

[god shammgod]

they won't tank, so it doesn't really matter if you think it's the only way. they aint gonna do it.

correct, I have come to terms with that so at least make the product interesting. And Brunson/Mitchell unless catastrophic injury should not put us in the top 10.

and maybe they figure out some way to get the next star 2 or 3 years from now or so. probably not but who knows. truth is, very few guys win titles at all. you usually need one of the best players of all time on your squad. look at the past 11 years. it's all bron or curry, with or without durant, with 1 giannis win and 2 for kawhi. that's it. 2 (or 3) guys won 8 titles and the other 2 won 3. what's the alternative right now ? pick 10th through 14th again. if we even keep the pick ? just another wasted year where nothing is accomplished.

i'm talking to myself now but who are gonna be the favorites next year ? curry. giannis, kawhi and whatever team has durant. and maybe lebron if the lakers make some good moves. it's all the same guys until they age out and then it'll be 3 new guys replacing them for the next 10 years.