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2025 Minor League/Prospects Discussion Thread

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Re: 2022 Minor League/Prospects Discussion Thread 

Post#561 » by Balki-B » Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:39 pm

Schad wrote:Or, take a look at the Angels. They committed over $90m to proven relievers in the offseason, signing Raisel Iglesias, Aaron Loup, Ryan Tepera and Archie Bradley. That outlay has gotten them a 'pen with the 6th-worst FIP and 9th-worst fWAR in baseball, and none of the four have been particularly good. Don't spend big on relievers.

I mean, the guy said he would trade Kirk and Groshans for an established reliever.

Kirk has become one of the most valuable players in the game.

That trade would quickly look like the RA Dickey trade.


Yikes, I had forgotten the Kirk part of that. Yeah, trading one of the most valuable players in baseball for a setup guy is a bad look.


I admitted it didn’t age well! I dug it up for a good laugh! :D Certainly would have been a Dickian level blunder in the pantheon of bad Jay trades.

I understand the failed-starter route now, and agree with the strategy for team building as it relates to sustainability. Just not sure how the bullpen can improve without giving up Groshans or Orelvis when Boston will also be shopping for pen help. Is Kikuchi or Pearson the answer? Is a trade on the margins to acquire a pitcher who provides Cimber-like results enough?
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Re: 2022 Minor League/Prospects Discussion Thread 

Post#562 » by Schad » Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:06 pm

Balki-B wrote:I understand the failed-starter route now, and agree with the strategy for team building as it relates to sustainability. Just not sure how the bullpen can improve without giving up Groshans or Orelvis when Boston will also be shopping for pen help. Is Kikuchi or Pearson the answer? Is a trade on the margins to acquire a pitcher who provides Cimber-like results enough?


My bad, initially misread which part you were saying didn't age well.

My feeling is the latter: identify a pitcher who gets strong results and/or has strong peripherals without a super-long track record of success, who doesn't look/feel like a high-leverage reliever (as with Cimber), or who can benefit from a change in pitch mix (something we've had success with). It's how the Rays perpetually seem to have five great relievers despite never actually spending on them (and seemingly trading several of them a year): they're great at identifying the traits that make for good relievers, and comfortable with taking the risk of guys whose numbers aren't very good but have underlying stuff/statistical components that they feel can be tuned for optimal performance.

Take Jason Adam. He was waiver wire fodder for a few years, a nothing guy for the Royals (and for us) who showed a bit of utility as a high-K pitcher with the Cubs, but still walked a tonne of guys and got hit fairly hard, because he mostly just threw fastballs. The Rays picked him up and overhauled his pitch mix: no more curveballs, fewer fastballs, and a lot of sliders and changeups. About 65% sliders and changeups actually, which is extremely high, especially for someone who threw nearly 60% fastballs the year previous.

Looking back, it seems really obvious: his fastball got hit pretty hard, but his outcomes on the small number of SL/CHs that he threw were quite good. The Rays gambled that those results would hold in large samples, and they were right.

We don't necessarily need to get that scrap heap-y, but you can find players of a similar ilk. Take Joe Jimenez. He sucked for years for the Tigers, and largely hung around because he was a power arm, and they were the Tigers. He's getting good results this year, both his raw numbers and his percentile rankings for expected outcomes, hard contact, etc, but relievers in small samples are all over the place, so the question becomes: is it sustainable? Are there things he's doing now that he wasn't doing in the past that explain his success, or is he just getting lucky?

And the answer is...maybe! One thing jumps out looking at his Baseball Savant page: the clustering on his slider is really good this season. He seems to be able to consistently locate it in the lower-right quadrant where RHP sliders belong. His slider gets good results generally over the past 4 seasons, and you might be able to eke out a bit of extra value by getting him to lean on it even harder. And then you can look at some of his other past numbers: last season, he had a completely out-of-character high BB rate, but otherwise his numbers were quite good. He's better about limiting hard contact than he was in earlier seasons, and it hasn't come at a cost to his K rate. If he doesn't forget how to throw strikes again, you could have a pretty cheap reliever (given his past struggles) with a solid chance to provide useful middle-inning relief, and a chance to be a high-K late-innings guy.

It's not an exact science (unless you're the Rays) because relievers are black magic, though. This time last year I was stumping for Paul Fry, who had sleeper relief ace components over a year and change with the Orioles. He then completely imploded and is currently languishing in the D-Backs AAA bullpen.
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Re: 2022 Minor League/Prospects Discussion Thread 

Post#563 » by Balki-B » Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:55 pm

Super thorough response. Appreciate the insight.
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Re: 2022 Minor League/Prospects Discussion Thread 

Post#564 » by polo007 » Sat Jul 2, 2022 3:04 am

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2022 Minor League/Prospects Discussion Thread 

Post#565 » by dagger » Sat Jul 2, 2022 12:43 pm

Watching one of my unicorns from last season, Spencer Horwitz, pushing for a promotion to Buffalo. Was 5-6 last night with two doubles and his 10th homer. Pushing his .BA over .300 and his OPS to .942. Played left field but is mainly a left hand hitting first baseman. Jays thought enough of him to send him to the Arizona Fall League. A shrewd scout might see him as good value as the secondary piece in a trade package this month.


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Re: 2022 Minor League/Prospects Discussion Thread 

Post#566 » by xAIRNESSx » Tue Jul 5, 2022 3:37 am

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Re: 2022 Minor League/Prospects Discussion Thread 

Post#567 » by polo007 » Wed Jul 6, 2022 12:35 am

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Re: 2022 Minor League/Prospects Discussion Thread 

Post#568 » by dagger » Sun Jul 10, 2022 10:51 am

dagger wrote:Watching one of my unicorns from last season, Spencer Horwitz, pushing for a promotion to Buffalo. Was 5-6 last night with two doubles and his 10th homer. Pushing his .BA over .300 and his OPS to .942. Played left field but is mainly a left hand hitting first baseman. Jays thought enough of him to send him to the Arizona Fall League. A shrewd scout might see him as good value as the secondary piece in a trade package this month.


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I suspect Horwitz will make it to a major league team this season - a nice trade add at this point. Off to a .421 start with Buffalo, a 3-4 game yesterday with a homer and a double. He just seems to have a knack for sustaining his offence, rarely gets into slumps. He's a nice story if we can turn a 21st round pick into an asset, maybe an okay reliever. If we didn't have 1B sewn up, he'd be the kind of guy management might grab at right now to add a left hand bat.
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Re: 2022 Minor League/Prospects Discussion Thread 

Post#569 » by polo007 » Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:00 am

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Re: 2022 Minor League/Prospects Discussion Thread 

Post#570 » by polo007 » Thu Jul 14, 2022 2:05 am

Players Making Significant Jumps Up Midseason Top 30 Prospects Lists - Baseball America

Toronto Blue Jays

Yosver Zulueta, RHP (Moved from unranked to No. 5)


The last time we updated our Top 30 lists, Zulueta had made just a few appearances with Low-A Dunedin. Since then he’s had major helium around the industry as a legitimate pitching prospect. Now with Double-A New Hampshire, Zulueta has risen three rungs up the minor league ladder in his first healthy season. On the mound, "Zulu" is electric with a fastball that sits 97-98 mph, touching triple digits with late life, and two average or better secondary pitches. His slider may be his best pitch, sitting mid 80s with sweep and depth. Zulueta will throw all three of his pitches, including a high-80s changeup with heavy arm-side run, for strikes and will mix up his sequencing from at-bat to at-bat.

Spencer Horwitz, 1B/OF (Moved from No. 17 to No. 11)

A bat-first player who's done nothing but hit over the last two seasons, Horwitz has a strong balance of skills at the plate. He shows excellent plate discipline, above-average bat-to-ball skills and above-average game power from the left side of the plate. Promoted to Triple-A on July 5, Horwitz is on the 40-man roster and just a call away from the major leagues. He’s not your prototypical first baseman but his ability to make contact, get on base and do damage is hard to question. He has a chance to be a second division regular.

Gabriel Martinez, OF (Moved from No. 30 to No. 12)

One of the more underrated hitters in the Blue Jays system, Martinez may be the position player that’s made the biggest jump in 2022. A strong combination of bat-to-ball skills, power and barrel control make Martinez a name opposing evaluators are smitten with. It’s a bat-first profile as Martinez is likely a corner outfielder long term, but it’s a pristine swing with a knack for finding the barrel. Martinez is still very aggressive but rarely strikes out due to his ability to get the bat on the ball. He projects to be a potential everyday regular in the corner outfield with the ability to hit for power while limiting strikeouts.

Nick Frasso, RHP (Moved from unranked to No. 13)

One of the best athletes in the Blue Jays system, Frasso returned from Tommy John surgery in under 12 months and was back pitching in the Florida State League by mid-May. He made seven stellar appearances for Dunedin, striking out 42 over 25.2 innings while allowing just two earned runs. Frasso sits upper 90s on his four-seam fastball and generates whiffs on both his low-to-mid-80s slider and his changeup. He’s been limited to four innings per appearance but should continue to build up following his early July promotion to Vancouver.

Max Castillo, RHP (Moved from unranked to No. 14)

An under-the-radar breakout prospect from the early part of the season who's risen all the way to the major leagues, Castillo shows excellent feel for his three-pitch mix and the ability to miss bats with his fastball and slider combination. Castillo doesn’t have tremendous power or movement on his arsenal. He does show the ability to consistently execute his three pitches to their intended zones and can drive both groundballs with his changeup or miss bats with his fastball and slider. Now handling a swingman role for the Blue Jays, many evaluators feel Castillo is a starting pitcher long term.
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Re: 2022 Minor League/Prospects Discussion Thread 

Post#571 » by vaff87 » Sun Jul 17, 2022 7:18 am

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Re: 2022 Minor League/Prospects Discussion Thread 

Post#572 » by polo007 » Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:11 pm

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Re: 2022 Minor League/Prospects Discussion Thread 

Post#573 » by dagger » Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:36 pm

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Re: 2022 Minor League/Prospects Discussion Thread 

Post#574 » by vaff87 » Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:42 pm

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I think he actually struggled in his last three starts. He also gave up a deep fly ball and a line drive to centre in the futures game.I’m guessing he’s getting a bit fatigued.
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Re: 2022 Minor League/Prospects Discussion Thread 

Post#575 » by dagger » Sat Jul 23, 2022 4:13 pm

Dasan Brown 2-5 in his debut in High A


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Re: 2022 Minor League/Prospects Discussion Thread 

Post#576 » by polo007 » Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:31 pm

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Re: 2022 Minor League/Prospects Discussion Thread 

Post#577 » by Fairview4Life » Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:49 pm

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Re: 2022 Minor League/Prospects Discussion Thread 

Post#578 » by polo007 » Sun Jul 24, 2022 2:44 am

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Re: 2022 Minor League/Prospects Discussion Thread 

Post#579 » by polo007 » Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:29 am

Examining the American League’s 2022 40-Man Crunch | FanGraphs Baseball

Toronto Blue Jays

Current 40-man Count: 44 (4 on 60-day IL)

Pending Free Agents: 2 (David Phelps, Ross Stripling)
Must-Add Prospects: Yosver Zulueta, Orelvis Martinez, Jordan Groshans, Spencer Horwitz
Current 40-man Fringe: Raimel Tapia, Bradley Zimmer, Matt Peacock, Anthony Banda, Vinny Capra, Trevor Richards, Casey Lawrence, Matt Gage
Prospects on the Fringe: Gabriel Martinez, Paxton Schultz, Tanner Morris, Graham Spraker, Kyle Johnston

There isn’t a high-volume crunch here so much as there are some tough decisions looming. Orelvis Martinez isn’t exactly setting the world on fire at Double-A; he’s running a sub-.300 OBP and chasing sliders at a terrifying rate. Groshans has had injury trouble (foot, back, oblique) and has much less power than it looked like he’d end up with as a draft prospect. Adding both of them means they’d each spend 2023 jockeying for position to replace Matt Chapman in ’24.

Back from a month missed due to injury, the 20-year-old Gabriel Martinez is raking again at Low-A. The Jays could push him to High-A Vancouver and give him an opportunity to earn a spot via his performance throughout the rest of the year, knowing that 2023 would likely be a purely developmental year on the 40-man (they charted a similar course with Leo Jimenez, except in Fall League rather than High-A). Their other option is to slow-play Martinez’s development, keeping him in Low-A all year in the hopes that the gap between that level and the big leagues is too rich for teams to consider taking Martinez in the Rule 5 Draft this offseason. If he isn’t taken, he’d start 2023 at Vancouver and hopefully hit his way to New Hampshire, putting Toronto in position to make a more confident 40-man decision on him after next season. In either case, Martinez’s big league ETA is actually sometime in 2024. Horwitz is a flush lefty-hitting in-house replacement for Tapia, who has been a shade under replacement level this year at nearly $4 million. The infield versatility of Santiago Espinal, Otto Lopez, Groshans and Orelvis makes it possible to add Morris, a bat-only guy, or pick up a gloveless masher from outside the org. The rest of the decision points here are a) Does Toronto think this reliever is better than that reliever? and b) What line do they take to have enough depth to deal with 2023 injuries?

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Re: 2022 Minor League/Prospects Discussion Thread 

Post#580 » by polo007 » Wed Jul 27, 2022 4:42 am

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