Donovan Mitchell Discussion 4

[Iron Mantis]

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Kellerman is another annoying blowhard. Good job by Hahn pointing out the absurdity of his predictably contradictory anti-Knick rant.

I agree that the Knicks should "draft and develop" by way of tanking until you find a legit superstar cornerstone piece.

However....that's not gonna happen, so the Knick's path is: manage the cap well and don't overpay players, scout and develop well wherever you draft, trade for talent without completely breaking the bank for a non-superstar.

[whocares1]

The Heat tanked for LeBron and it didn’t work. They got lucky Wade, the 5th pick, not top 3, became a superstar.

So one example of tanking for LeBron, who didn’t win ****, left, they tanked like 3 more times, won 1 title after LeBron CAME BACK. No, your example sucks and there aren’t others with the exception of the Spurs tanking over 20 years ago.

At this point you’re a lost cause.

You have 1 and a half examples. I have the Raptors, Warriors, Mavs, Lakers, Bucks, Heat, Celtics and Pistons. But keep acting like you don’t understand.

Because your logic is if the team didn’t tank themselves or the tanked player isn’t on the roster then tanking wasn’t used for them. Like you used the Lakers as an example even tho Brandon Ingram and Lonzo Ball were two players in a trade that was used to trade for a player that was also tanked for. The only one I’ll give you is the Bucks in recent memory but the point of tanking is putting yourself in a better position to draft a Giannis. Bucks just got extremely lucky.

The Raptors likely don’t win a chip if KD doesn’t have a freak injury. Point is that it’s common sense that tanking leads to having a higher percentage chance of acquiring a generational talent. (Not definite but much higher) and if you just want to trade for Mitchell bc you’re like mpharris and you’re sick of hoping the FO will think differently than sure. But generational talents are usually found right at the top of the draft.

[stitches]

The thing I've been thinking about is... there is a REALLY simple way for the Knicks to make Barrett truly untouchable. And this is also the way to act if you actually value him at the level of an untouchable asset - give him the max.. NOW! You give him the max now and he's off the table automatically. But that's not what the Knicks are doing. Why? What's going on in New York?

i think the real question is - what's going on in utah ...

donovan/clarkson
conley/pbev
bojan/beasley
vandy/gay
whiteside/kessler

is the aston martin of treadmills ... what's the plan for you guys? how realistic is it to move all those vets and restructure your roster into something that resembles the tanker trash other franchises will be fielding next season in their quest for wemby?

The plan is pretty clear IMO. It's to tank. It's not really a secret to anybody at this point. IMO everyone who has a positive value will likely be traded for future assets or young players by the trade deadline. I'm not sure just how hard we will tank... but after the latest reforms the odds for the premier picks have somewhat flattened and all teams in the top(or rather bottom) 3 have the same odds for the top picks and teams as low as 5-6 place still have very respectable chance at getting the top picks. At the end of the day it's a lottery... even if we lose 70 games, at most we will have 14% chance to win the Wemby sweepstakes(unless we get lucky through some other teams' picks, but that doesn't depend on how bad the Jazz will be). The fact that the West is likely to be pretty strong next year with multiple stars returning from serious injuries will help us be even worse IMO. But again... how bad exactly? Who knows? Maybe the worst of the worst? Maybe in that 3-6 range... I doubt we will be much better than the 5th-6th worst team though...

and i don't think you were trying to flame - that is something lots of knicks fans ponder when the idea of "rj being untouchable" is brought up. he's not an asset we want to buy into fully (yet) however that doesn't mean we are willing to part w/ him especially if the terms aren't reasonable

You are right... I'm not trolling or something. I trully am trying to glean something into this fog of a negotiation that's happening. I really don't know for sure just how much NYK are valuing RJ Barrett(but if I had to guess IMO the "untouchable" thing is posturing) and I don't even know how much Ainge values him. He's pretty much the prototype Ainge prospect, but at the same time there are credible reports that the Jazz are not asking for him... so... what is? Are the Jazz posturing too? Or do they really not mind not getting Barrett in the deal? The final deal will truly be a sight to behold... and if it's not with the Knicks then it will create a ton of additional noise in the league too...

[Stannis]

Knicks need to make a power move and go ahead and trade away some of their prospects

[K_ick_God]

So possibly the holdup is RJ.

[TrueWarrior]

Would u guys rather have Melo or Paschall as a backup 4?

If we get rid of Randle so Obi can start then I can see Melo being a good bench option. Hed still get 20 mpg or so and can get buckets off the bench.

If we get rid of Obi (would be a mistake) and keep Randle then Paschall makes more sense. He wouldn’t complain about smaller minutes and wouldn’t be a threat to Randle. Paschall is basically a lower ceiling Obi.

Ideal for me would be Obi starting, with Paschall backing him up. Two NY A10 guys who are both around 25 would be nice!

[Stannis]

I just don't see the Lakers being the third wheel in a blockbuster trade. I DEFINITELY do not see them adding a pick to get Randle and/or Fournier. They would be giving the Knicks a huge service taking Randle's and Fournier's contact.

Agreed, that's a non-starter.

Are you kidding me, the lakers would beg any team to take Westbrook

Not if it means more years of another bad contract (Randle).

[Synciere]

No deal so far an excellent sign.

Utah probably wants our own unprotected picks, then they want to push us over the edge with one of their bloated contracts and additional swaps so we never have any means of being good and guaranteeing them great picks. Then they want all of our youth aka previous first round picks.

No need is good news here. The longer this takes the better for us most likely.

[Reign23]

I just don't see the Lakers being the third wheel in a blockbuster trade. I DEFINITELY do not see them adding a pick to get Randle and/or Fournier. They would be giving the Knicks a huge service taking Randle's and Fournier's contact.

this. but you have to make the deal even without the pick IF they buyout westbrook. I don't want him anywhere near this team.

[jvsimonetti0514]

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[snadler]

In the last 43 years only 13 teams have won a championship, this isn’t like nfl or mlb..to win a ring doesn’t happen very often unless you are the lakers or Celtics. Please stop with this if it doesn’t win a ring you’d be better off tanking. Spurs are the only team on the 13 that tanked and got Duncan. So to sit there and say tanking is the right path, only path is false. You have to be able to walk before you can run, and for the Knicks they’ve been in a wheelchair the last 20 plus years

[snadler]

Agreed, that's a non-starter.

Are you kidding me, the lakers would beg any team to take Westbrook

Not if it means more years of another bad contract (Randle).

Tell that to Lebron, he disagrees, if they land Kyrie and Randle by dumping Westbrook, you bet they will and could contend in the west

[TrueWarrior]

No deal so far an excellent sign.

Utah probably wants our own unprotected picks, then they want to push us over the edge with one of their bloated contracts and additional swaps so we never have any means of being good and guaranteeing them great picks. Then they want all of our youth aka previous first round picks.

No need is good news here. The longer this takes the better for us most likely.

I wouldnt say the longer it takes the better for us. The Melo trade took a while, but Dolan stepped in at the last second to give Denver everything they wanted. Something similar could happen here, but maybe Jimbo learned his lesson.

If we’re thinking about trading Julius then Obi better be off the table, unless we’re planning on starting Melo haha.

[god shammgod]

seems kind of impossible to trade for both mitchell and westbrook salary wise

[KnicksGadfly]

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Stop bro, don't get my hopes up!!!!!!!

[ag3]

seems kind of impossible to trade for both mitchell and westbrook salary wise

Randle and Fournier for WB + picks?

[will34]

Knicks thinking beyond the Mitchell trade tells me one thing. Welcome home, Spida

[god shammgod]

seems kind of impossible to trade for both mitchell and westbrook salary wise

Randle and Fournier for WB + picks?

you gotta include fournier in the mitchell deal to make it work

[Reign23]

Would u guys rather have Melo or Paschall as a backup 4?

If we get rid of Randle so Obi can start then I can see Melo being a good bench option. Hed still get 20 mpg or so and can get buckets off the bench.

If we get rid of Obi (would be a mistake) and keep Randle then Paschall makes more sense. He wouldn’t complain about smaller minutes and wouldn’t be a threat to Randle. Paschall is basically a lower ceiling Obi.

Ideal for me would be Obi starting, with Paschall backing him up. Two NY A10 guys who are both around 25 would be nice!

you can sign both. if one of Obi/Randle gets traded, we only have 1 PF on the roster

[mpharris36]

seems kind of impossible to trade for both mitchell and westbrook salary wise

Randle and Fournier for WB + picks?

you gotta include fournier in the mitchell deal to make it work

Not if you include Rose

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=244fj587


then the lakers deal

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2kcfsout