Donovan Mitchell Discussion 4

[Knicksrule2k4]

Sam Amico reporting that wizards could make a big push to acquire KD

[god shammgod]

Because all NBA teams only have one guy who can dribble a basketball towards the basket with any ability...

You've been watching the Knicks for too long.

As long as both guys can shoot off the catch, it's fine

Brunson shot 40% off the catch last year, 44% 2 years ago. Mitchell shot 35% off the catch last year, 43% two years ago

I think there's this idea that there can only be one "the guy" who does all the ball handling, but that's just not how teams work

Like, yeah, by having both of them on the court, you're taking away some opportunities for them to do what they do best, but would you rather have 40 possessions per game of Brunson doing his thing or 30 possessions per game each for Brunson and Mitchell to have the ball in their hands?

I'm worried about the defense, the offense would be great.

Thank you. They are both elite at creating off the dribble, so I'm not exactly concerned if Brunson is doing his 1 v 3 in the paint, gets jammed up a bit and get the ball to Mitchell while the defense is even a little off balance.

Again, heaven forbid the Knicks have an elite 3 level scorer in Mitchell and then a guy in Brunson who is damn close and at least elite getting to the rim, incredibly good in the mid range and at least average at shooting 3's.

Defense an issue like you say? Yes. Offense? Come on.

plus they'll probably stagger those guys a little so they both can have enough touches.

[Clyde_Style]

Yes he is, he will thrive with open threes spacing the floor

What?


He's going to do the same thing with them that he's done with everyone else, he's going to try and play a two man game with whoever has the ball at the time. He'll do DHO, then post up taking away any driving lane either could have, he'll do DHO and with so little time on the clock they have to shoot, and he'll set screens hoping he gets the ball back and never actually rolling to the rim.

This backcourt will need a "Go stand in the corner" player at the 4 more than anything else.

Not that I'm sure either could start, but Randle being traded and a PF tandem of Obi/Paschdall would be entertaining as f*ck.

Of course, this Westbrook rumor is pure drivel and fantasy, but so what. We've all posted in 400 pages for a Donovan Mitchell trade that won't happen.

How dare you dunk on my fantasy drivel? The nerve

[god shammgod]

Sam Amico reporting that wizards could make a big push to acquire KD

no they can't

[DaGawd]

Sam Amico reporting that wizards could make a big push to acquire KD

With what lmao. Amico is a hack btw


Any way looking like thread 5 on the way

[Chanel Bomber]

As long as both guys can shoot off the catch, it's fine

Brunson shot 40% off the catch last year, 44% 2 years ago. Mitchell shot 35% off the catch last year, 43% two years ago

I think there's this idea that there can only be one "the guy" who does all the ball handling, but that's just not how teams work

Like, yeah, by having both of them on the court, you're taking away some opportunities for them to do what they do best, but would you rather have 40 possessions per game of Brunson doing his thing or 30 possessions per game each for Brunson and Mitchell to have the ball in their hands?

I'm worried about the defense, the offense would be great.

Thank you. They are both elite at creating off the dribble, so I'm not exactly concerned if Brunson is doing his 1 v 3 in the paint, gets jammed up a bit and get the ball to Mitchell while the defense is even a little off balance.

Again, heaven forbid the Knicks have an elite 3 level scorer in Mitchell and then a guy in Brunson who is damn close and at least elite getting to the rim, incredibly good in the mid range and at least average at shooting 3's.

Defense an issue like you say? Yes. Offense? Come on.

plus they'll probably stagger those guys a little so they both can have enough touches.

Brunson and Mitchell will not be the issue, although they will be challenged defensively. These are good offensive players, who can play on and off the ball. And we know Mitch will offer efficient finishes on the roll, when they do make the pass.

Although I would be curious to see if his lack of versatility could be exposed to some degree if teams trap and force Mitch to make a play.

[thebuzzardman]

The Lakers are the 2nd winningest franchise in NBA history. That kinda shows that if you are going to be betting on a team 5 to 7 years from now to be good or bad that you don't bet on a team like the Lakers. If this was the Cavs, ok. Magic. Ok.

And over the past 9 years, they're 290-427, an average of 33 wins per season with 2 playoff berths. Their core is literally just a 38 year old LeBron and a terminally injured AD with no assets and no prospects to speak of

Also, why would you look at how good they were in the 70s and 80s and say that matters more than their current team?

You ignore the whole point, teams want those picks and the Lakers don't want to give them up. The only way how you think makes sense is if LA was begging teams to take Westbrook and those picks and they were rebuffed, but that's not reality. If they offered both those picks, Westbrook would be gone instantly.

What if the trade (that isn't really happening) is something where Utah gets to shed another 2 year salary, the Knicks still give up their picks, and the Lakers get in it to get stuff for the corpse of Westbrook, while the Knicks take an opportunity to shed Randle?

This would have to be predicated on the Knicks really being disappointed with Randle and worried he'll wreck the good vibes Mitchell/Brunson/Obi/Paschdall ( ) would bring, etc.

I'm ignoring that Randle was there at the game where everyone was friending up Brunson, which seems to indicate the FO likes Randle.
Maybe Randle the friend no one really likes but haven't told him and he doesn't know and he wasn't invited but invited himself and it was awkward.

[moocow007]

It's the same reason why the Knicks own draft picks seem to be valuable. Cause teams are betting the odds that the Knicks will continue to do what they generally do...which is to suck. They're all draft picks but you don't need to be a rocket scientist to know which teams draft picks are more valuable than which other teams well before the draft. You can just google 'NBA best franchises in history' or 'NBA winningest teams in history' to find out which teams you may want to bet on will be giving you valuable draft picks and which will not if you do acquire them.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Bring in Mitchell to improve the team and trade away Randle making the team worse? We’re making lateral moves now?

Mitchell doesn't want to play with Randle. Can't blame him. He saw him meltdown in person.

Watch on YouTube

Idk how some posters can watch him act like this all season and still stick up for him. Gotta be trollin like Melo says he is when his mask slips. He wasnt just terrible on the court outside his counting stats, but hes toxic as chit.

That wasn't even the only one. There were so many incidents where he melted down or clearly gave up. He brought the entire team down. How can you trust a guy like that again? I'm sure he had stuff going on, but that doesn't excuse a lot of that bevavior.

That was also the game where Mitch pulled RJ aside and gave him props after the game.

[thebuzzardman]

Sam Amico reporting that wizards could make a big push to acquire KD

no they can't

BUT KD WAS FROM THE AREA AS A KID AND KNICKS ARE GOING FOR A LOCAL GUY SO WHY NOT WIZ?!?!

[thebuzzardman]

What?


He's going to do the same thing with them that he's done with everyone else, he's going to try and play a two man game with whoever has the ball at the time. He'll do DHO, then post up taking away any driving lane either could have, he'll do DHO and with so little time on the clock they have to shoot, and he'll set screens hoping he gets the ball back and never actually rolling to the rim.

This backcourt will need a "Go stand in the corner" player at the 4 more than anything else.

Not that I'm sure either could start, but Randle being traded and a PF tandem of Obi/Paschdall would be entertaining as f*ck.

Of course, this Westbrook rumor is pure drivel and fantasy, but so what. We've all posted in 400 pages for a Donovan Mitchell trade that won't happen.

How dare you dunk on my fantasy drivel? The nerve

When Buzzardman becomes Buzzkillman

[knicksNOTslick]

Not to mention after turning this draft's #11 into three 1sts and the cap space to sign Brunson. So Mitchell would only really cost them 2-3 1sts while also dumping Randle/Fournier plus adding Brunson/Hart.

If that is the Knicks off season there are very few fans or media that could justifiably criticize Rose especially if they were able to keep their youth, like RJ, Obi and IQ.

not exactly...the picks we got probably aren't going in the Mitchell trade.

It will be our own picks. Not every pick is created equal.

Both will, some NYK picks and some of the others. The picks that people are disregarding will actually wind up being better picks than the ones the Knicks give of their own. The Knicks ones will more likely be in the 20s and the other ones more likely in the teens.

The only different is in appearance, the 'unprotected' jizzing that fans, media and even Ainge will do over them probably won't translate into them being better picks than the ones that are coming from Wash and Det once the protections go down to a lower point they'll convey in the teens, not Mil one tho.

It's the 2027 and 2029 Knicks picks that Ainge has his eyes on, because historically the Knicks have never been able to keep being a consistent playoff team. So the odds of those being high lottery is pretty decent.

If I'm another franchise, I would look at this current Knicks team like I look at the Carmelo era, the short-lived Starbury era and the Houston-Spree teams. It's only a matter of time before the Knicks underachieve and reset with new management and coaching. A lot can happen for NY from 2023 to 2027-2029, and based on past teams, the Knicks more than likely will end up at the bottom. That's why I would hold Knicks future (past 2025) picks higher than I would the Celtics, Heat or the Spurs, the organizations that are considered more stable.

[Knicksrule2k4]

Need this trade to happen once thread 5 starts up to keep up the prophecy that he will be a Knick in between threads 4 and 5 lol

[whocares1]

Because all NBA teams only have one guy who can dribble a basketball towards the basket with any ability...

You've been watching the Knicks for too long.

As long as both guys can shoot off the catch, it's fine

Brunson shot 40% off the catch last year, 44% 2 years ago. Mitchell shot 35% off the catch last year, 43% two years ago

I think there's this idea that there can only be one "the guy" who does all the ball handling, but that's just not how teams work

Like, yeah, by having both of them on the court, you're taking away some opportunities for them to do what they do best, but would you rather have 40 possessions per game of Brunson doing his thing or 30 possessions per game each for Brunson and Mitchell to have the ball in their hands?

I'm worried about the defense, the offense would be great.

Thank you. They are both elite at creating off the dribble, so I'm not exactly concerned if Brunson is doing his 1 v 3 in the paint, gets jammed up a bit and get the ball to Mitchell while the defense is even a little off balance.

Again, heaven forbid the Knicks have an elite 3 level scorer in Mitchell and then a guy in Brunson who is damn close and at least elite getting to the rim, incredibly good in the mid range and at least average at shooting 3's.

Defense an issue like you say? Yes. Offense? Come on.

The offense will be fine with those two guys sharing the ball but that’s not the problem. Randle is also a high usage player that will take touches from them. Presumably if you are a fan of RJ they will absorb all his touches so we may be in a, way less talented, KD-WB-Harden situation where someone needs to leave.

[stuporman]

Realistically how can we get Westbrook’s salary? Include Cam??

Randle and Fournier

So how Donovan?

Randle and Evan not needed for Don. Rose, Cam, Grimes, McBride works

[K_ick_God]

The Knicks are too far away from contending for a championship.

If they could just become respectable in the eyes of NBA players - and the players who will enter the league in the years to come - for an extended stretch by playing good basketball and by making the playoffs a few years in a row, it will be a positive development for this franchise.

The Knicks have been a joke for far too long. They are the cultural symbol of losing. They need to shed that.

But guys want to play here. Melo did. Probably KD did. I still think LeBron did, but yes was scared by the losing. Same with KD. Donovan still wants to. No doubt they're a punching bag and they've earned it (or at least it's based on real things, even if some were bad luck). But it's not like what you're saying equates 1:1 or close to an inability to add top talent.

If anything I think it still weighs in their favor at this point, despite the recent and extended history of failure. They can still attract top guys.

In that way, the Utah guy has a point. The Knicks shouldn't give up on attracting top guys. It's an advantage still, as much as the media loves to say size of market no longer matters. That is an oversimplification and actually more incorrect than correct to this day.

The Nets got KD only because they're in NY.

[knicksNOTslick]

Sam Amico reporting that wizards could make a big push to acquire KD

With what lmao. Amico is a hack btw


Any way looking like thread 5 on the way

They're gonna sell Brooklyn on KP being their new savior.

[thebuzzardman]

Guys...those Lakers picks have value. They just don't have much value. Not the value that some of you guys in fantasy land are dreaming they have. And certainly not for any current front office who by the by are the guys that are determining value. What NBA front office would value draft picks coming from the 2nd winningest franchise in league history, a team that players ALWAYS have on top of their lists to play and seem to get what they want AND that won't materialize for 5 and 7 years from now as value? The average lifespan of an NBA front office executive is not 5 years. You don't get brownie points (or back pay or your job back) if the next GM does something with those picks assuming that the Lakers buck the odds and are a bad team in 2026-2027 and 2028-2029 respectively. I'm honestly not sure how to explain this any more. This is like fantasizing about dating that chubby girl that works the registers a Rite Aid hoping that somehow she'd lose weight and become a Victoria's Secret model.

Thats why GreenArrow feeds them cocaine while they stay in the basement

[moocow007]

The Lakers are the 2nd winningest franchise in NBA history. That kinda shows that if you are going to be betting on a team 5 to 7 years from now to be good or bad that you don't bet on a team like the Lakers. If this was the Cavs, ok. Magic. Ok.

And over the past 9 years, they're 290-427, an average of 33 wins per season with 2 playoff berths. Their core is literally just a 38 year old LeBron and a terminally injured AD with no assets and no prospects to speak of

Also, why would you look at how good they were in the 70s and 80s and say that matters more than their current team?

You ignore the whole point, teams want those picks and the Lakers don't want to give them up. The only way how you think makes sense is if LA was begging teams to take Westbrook and those picks and they were rebuffed, but that's not reality. If they offered both those picks, Westbrook would be gone instantly.

What teams want those picks? And why would the Lakers not want to give them up now after they've been giving them up like candy up until now? To use the Lebron and age thing as an argument makes no sense since they would be looking to do whatever it takes to win now. That includes trading the picks that supposedly teams are coveting.

And once again...why would a team's front office want to give the Lakers anything that is useful for a guy that they CLEARLY don't want for 2 picks that likely won't be around for them to use? I'm not sure what you are missing. You know NBA GM's are humans not robots right?

[DOT]

It's the same reason why the Knicks own draft picks seem to be valuable. Cause teams are betting the odds that the Knicks will continue to do what they generally do...which is to suck. They're all draft picks but you don't need to be a rocket scientist to know which teams draft picks are more valuable than which other teams well before the draft. You can just google 'NBA best franchises in history' or 'NBA winningest teams in history' to find out which teams you may want to bet on will be giving you valuable draft picks and which will not if you do acquire them.

The Knicks have the 5th most wins in NBA history

By your logic, we should trade all our picks for Dallas' 1sts, since they're 23rd in wins in league history

Warriors also only have 2 more wins than us and 4 less losses, so by your logic, we're the same as them and if we swapped 1sts going forward, you would expect no real changes.